Nightfall: Short-lived Thrill Ride

I completely agree. I don't care how good the game is or how different it is from every other game out there. If there is a monthly fee, I won't even look into playing it.

And OP, it seems that you are just burnt out from GW. Just take a break and when you come back, it will probably be fun again.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]and

Yes im completly wrong, but you prove me completly right

hardly anyone forms teams anymore, everyone is playing with heros, the large majority of people still forming real groups are those that cant play with the AI properly.

there was always a number of people that prefered henchies over people, they have simply grown in % terms. It also dosnt help that most nightfall missions are so easy that for 80% of them you can just stand there and let your heros do the work.


So your saying im a botter now?

Also a large number of my guild must be botters.

Im talking about farming as well not exploits.

Try harder, your argument sucks.

i think those points are key to my arguement that it is the rotten community killing multiplayer not the heroes.

if we had the old search i could show you the endless bad group experiences mixed with an ever increasing never will i PUG again posts.

it has gotten to the point (before Nightfall/heroes) that if someone found a fun group they would post something like

you wont believe it but i had fun last night with a PUG.

about all those guilds losing most of their members who are now playing with heroes?

if the guild/members were having fun together they would be ignoring the heroes and staying with their guild buddies instead of grabbing a hero and saying it is much better.

heroes are a choice between a proven bad community experience for most and a chance to avoid that bad experience.

that is the communitys fault not the heroes.

I like having henchies available if noone else is around, and I want to cap, get some merchable drops(try US server at 4am US time, see whos on...). Id much rather have real people though, as only real people can make intelligent decisions, like not healing someone who not only has self heal, but really isnt in much danger, instead of healing someone whos farther away, but nearing death.

IF they kept annoying boundaries to a dull roar (letting me explore any ol nook and cranny), I'd be happy for months.

As soon as my paragon was basically nerfed, I tried playing my warrior - but find it a daily grind.

I wish Aion would hurry up. I wish I had Windows XP so I could play Oblivion. That break would give me . . . a break!

i think metaphorically you rubbed it so hard when you got it that you cant feel it anymore. no man nothing is ever like the first one and it never will be. take what you get and appreciate the good things from it and if you get bored listen to billy jean while dancing with a naked paragon male in d1 of kamaden and ask for tips for and meet people.

Honestly speaking, I feel that making GW pay2play is like admitting ANet has fought a lost battle (or even creating the impression that subscription-based gaming is the definite way to go, which I strongly disagree). Being non-subscription-based is perhaps GW's main appeal to the general audience. WoW, for example, is already a very polished example of a pay2play game (it already has a huge advantage over GW in the pay2play arena), making GW pay2play is just going to shift GW's (which is a polished non-subscription game) competition into that arena, worst still, reducing the prime differentiating factors between subscription-based games and GW.

I think ANet simply needs to find methods for customer retention to ensure that future chapters of GW are well-received by both old and new players. Making it subscription-based is going to hurt both customers and ANet alike. GW core gameplay can get stale and boring over time, that's where I feel ANet can start improvising (and thus revitalizing the game) when they are releasing the new chapters. It'll be tough considering that GW was mainly focused on the PvP (competitive) aspects, while other RPG games were first focused on PvE instead then making PvP work.

You are required to reach certain levels of Sunspear points to progress in the game. More specifically, you are required to at least reach a rank of Sunspear 6.

Wait, Aion is supposed to run on other platforms?

I still haven't beaten Nightfall because I'm taking my time on it. When I do a mission, I go through it faster than most missions I've done in the past, so I realized early that I might want to slow down and enjoy everything about it. I did the same thing for Factions and Prophecies. Prophecies, I even took a 5 month break after I did the Searing, just so that I would be extremely exhilarated when I got back to finish the game.

I don't like henchies or heroes. I can use them when there are no groups available, but I prefer people as appose to heartless automatons that can finish the mission for me. I like Guild Wars for its community. This community. You guys and gals are what makes Guild Wars complete for me. That's why I've never lost interest in this game and its world.

Too the insane loonies roaming these forums with suggestions of "MONTHLY FEES"

YOU NEED YOUR HEAD CHECKED, for cying out loud.

Paying for something, does not "IMPROVE" it's enjoyment factor..

If you want to "PAY" monthly fee's by all means go ahead.

Im sure Arenanet won't mind if you post them a cheque for $40 quid each month!

By implication you are making out Arenanet are some POOR POV company, unable to feed their childen, let alone issue some in-game updates or expanded gameplay !.

HONESTLY, Arenanet are doing very well, it is NOT MONEY, that they need, you insane tossed salad !

I think I used "farming is begining to find it's way into GW" expression Avarre . I'm afraid it's gonna get worse in future, I'm pessimistic in general and I feel like ANet has run out of ideas (-> DoA). And yes I agree, you don't need any of those to proceed BUT gring does pay off in NF and it didn't in previous chapters.

I played through NF with one foreign character when it first came out, and I loved it. Then I made a NF ranger, did noob island, and then when it came to going onto the mainland I just thought...I can't be bothered. It just didn't appeal. So I've taken her back, and I'm running around doing missions in Tyria and Cantha, which I'm really enjoying. I wouldn't use the word 'grind' to describe NF, but it just seemed so long and tedious to go through it all again. Tyria has never looked so appealing.

As a side note, I did The Deep for the first time in months the other night. And enjoyed it immensely. Give me that over DoA anyday.

I have the impression that the people who complain about grinding are the ones who like to make a character to take it directly to the farming fields.

My ranks spontaniously come wile i play normally. If you feel restricted by ranks, i can only conlude that you just want to skip 90% of the game.

Sorry but that's not true. I have a whole of one character I play (90% of in-game time of my acc), I took her through Tyria, Cantha and Elona doing all side quests and passing same routes multiple times helping my friends and I never felt the 'grind' thing - until Ive reached Elona. I don't myself care for the ranks of titles, all I'm saying is that grinding/repeating same things over and over started to pay off and affect gameplay and I don't like that (tho my main char is more likely to get high title ranks easy since I only focus on one char) and thats my personal oppinion.

Yes, that somewhat sums it up.

PUGs don't suck. It's just that many poor players are left with nothing but PUGs.

Poor player here refers to many things, from attitude, to inexperience, to simple unwillingness to play the role.

Why do so many dervishes and paragons apear to have problems grouping? Well, they aren't. Just as many of those classes and any other classes have problem grouping since they can't play in a group.

"AoE dervish LFG" - Doh! Dervishes are AoE. It's like saying "Caster elementalist LFG". Tanks that beat the game yet don't know what pulling, body blocking or agro management is. Nukers asking for better armor since they get ganked by mobs.

On the other hand, there's plenty of good PUGs. Not only that, but finding them isn't really a problem (unless you're playing in off-time, in unpopular areas - hey, facts-of-life).

Some people always enter poor PUGs. Some never do. Is it that hard to realize where the problem lies? Is it really that every single player that has entered a PUG is complete moron, incompetent player, who couldn't make a build to save his life? Is that really true? Eye of the beholder, or something like that.

And do show me a post saying: Guild groups suck.

Is every single guild (every single one of them without a single exception) really comprised out of great, friendly, professional, experienced, fully equipped players?

Simply put: Let he who is without a sin cast the first stone. Heroes make a welcome addition. But their over-viability has to do with two factors. NF content is too easy. Prophecies content suddenly gives you 3 fully decked out level 20 charactes, and that content isn't even scaled for level 20 characters. And in Factions, henchies just plain old suck.

So nothing has really changed, some things just became more viable.

I dunno if paying make your experience any better. I was on a board for the Stargate MMO in development and alot of people there had quit WoW and complained about having to raid 24/7 and just grinding in general. So people who pay for MMO's aren't necessarily getting a better deal than we are. I'd pay if I could have 24/7 access to all the Elite missions and high level areas. Having to wait until America has favor is ridiculous. I've heard of people waiting at ToA for hours!!!

About NF...it does seem a bit shorter than the other games. But I'm not really rushing through it like some people are. I'm accumulating platinum, leveling + equipping Heroes, and going on quests + exploring for Cartographer. I'd wait a while before judging NF. I have a feeling that the place in the Crystal Desert leads to another high level area that will be opened closer to the release of the next GW game.

I had no problem beating the game with my Dervish. If anything is was more fun with her.

I see the Devish as a mob control class. Go out ahead, cripple a bunch of enemies, keep'em occupied till the nuker nukes them. OMG...that sounded like teamwork!!

Anyways I perfer my Dervish over my Warrior for tanking mostly cause of the AoE. But for attacking and doing dps I perfer the Warrior over the Dervish.

IMHO the OP sounds burned out from playing too much GW. I've already beaten the game with 2 characters, wanna do a third, but I started a Rit in Factions, and still farm here and there to mix it up a bit.

Honestly how can one suggest Anet needs to make the game longer lasting, extended or whatever? I mean think about it. How healthy is it to just keep playing nonstop day after day?

If anything the OP needs a break, cuase for every complaint out there that the game is too short, its not replayable or whatever...there are hundreds of complaints from people still stuck at THK.

Wow, exactly the same for me. I took my favourite Prophecies character through NF first, and enjoyed it. Then I made a NF character, I completeted noob island with him, and then thought "I can't be bothered with this". NF does feel like a grind, or a chore. I took him to Lion's Arch, and he is now playing through Prophecies because it is a better game. You can also still form groups in Prophecies, groups with real players.

I'm quite dissapointed that no one in this entire topic alluded the "Short-lived Thrill Ride" to something else. Missed oppertunity, people!

Anyways, I made an Canthan Ele (I love the Canthan Ele styles) to go through the NF campaign, mainly because Searing Flames is a blast. If they nerf Searing Flames, I'll be sad.

I've only finished NF with my ranger. The Heroes aspect is the most daunting

My opinion: Add upgrades for campaigns in the online store. Rebuild Ascalon missions/Explore Kormirs new powers missions/Inter campaign missions w/e

Paying for the them > Monthly fee

I took my Warrior through it, and am working my Dervish and Ranger through slowly. Truth is, though, that I'm doing a Nightfall mission, then going off to Tyria or Cantha for a few hours. then, I might come back and continue with Nightfall. It's a good campaign, one that I plan on doing for all my characters, but the pacing is slow, you can't skip content, and I know that once I hit the gates, the entire game will change and every strategy I've worked out will become worthless due to the absurd "only affects the players" "environmental" effects.

So, I'll beat it with my other characters eventually. I'm in no rush to get to the end, especially since I know that DoA is not someplace I ever want to visit again. It's everythign I hate about game design: special skills for mobs that players would kill for, environment effects that hurt the players but the mobs ignore, and mobs that are ridiculously overpowered compared to the players. It's lazy design and implementation, creating challenge "by the numbers:" increase mob number, increase mob levels, increase mob damage and HP.

Wow you beat the game already?
Im like.. not even halfway.
Ive found beating games more rewarding if you do other stuff while finishing.
Like working on titles or playing lots of pvp as well.
So once I beat it, it will be like sweet that took like 4 months, and I am rank 20+ lfg for hoh

The majority of the players who completed Nightfall quickly are Tyrian characters. Thus, they have completed all other aspects of character development, including the completion of Tyria and even Cantha, plus several titles.

The only way to advance for these characters is new content, i.e. Nightfall. However, Nightfall was easy, and was completed quickly and efficiently.

I completed most of NF on my Tyrian Necro in 2 days (would have done it in 3 if Gate of Madness wasn't so annoying). And for the record, I also completed Factions in 2-3 days on the same character.

PvP is dead. RA, TA, and HA are jokes, and GvG is inconsistant.

Experienced players burnt out on Nightfall. Unfortunally for ArenaNet, that's the majoity of the playerbase.

(And your "rank 20+" comment is not funny. At all.)

/agree

agood way of spending your time in guildwars is farming 10mil to buy some ranks. all thats left

Oh! Oh! OOH!!!

More complaints about GW? And Nightfall? Eegads people...
My tips to those complaining about being bored of NF, and who have been beating the NF chapter with each character in under 2-3 days::

1) Quit playing Guild Wars.

***The following is ONLY for those who truely enjoy Guild Wars and need a few helpful ideas to stay interested***

2) Have you capped all elites for all professions? Yes, this would involve getting all your classes through most if not all of Nightfall again.

3) Work on Titles?

4) Explore areas for FUN, the main story line shows you maybe 60% of Elona, the rest is waiting to be looked upon in all its artistic spleandor.

5) Help guildmates/friends with the game, they will appreciate it.

6) Complete all sidequests from beginning to end, that should take a good long while.

7) Try some PvP, there are now many many avenues for PvP...

8) Take a break from Guild Wars. If you really love this game, and already feel burnt on from new content, you really need to step away for a little while, and mebe you will feel that itch again!

All in all simple, common sense and possible lame tips, but nonetheless, applicable.

You all talk about replayability? IMHO, NF PvE campaign is more stimulating, involved and entertaining then any other campaign so far. Lenghth wise it seems perfect...longer then Factions, shorter the Prophecies. Grind? Hardly. I have gotten 2 Tyrians through NF following pretty much the main story line ONLY and got to rank 8 Sunspear in no time. Hero leveling grind? Hardly. A foreign character can lvl them to close to 15 in an hour or less. Go to Issnur Isles, take the Drake bounty, use a scroll, clear the area of drakes. With a fast enough build, or a high enough XP Scroll, you can cut that time to about 30 min, so thats about all the grind i can see for foreign characters. Beyond that, they gain levels fairly quickly through missions and quests and exploration hitting 20 in no time at all. The Consulate docks gets em a few levels in itself! As for Elonian characters, well everything in Nightfall just becomes that much easier, therefore even less chance of supposed grind.

I admit for some, PvP is mainly imbalanced and pointless now cause of cookie cutter mentality, which Searing Flames has taken about 75% of the player base. GvG remains the most fun aspect of PvP. Hero Battles, Alliance Battles, Heroes Ascent, Guild Skirmishes, etc etc, serveral different choices for PvP...

All this is coming from a dedicated player since day one of Prophecies. Experienced players burnt out on Nightfall? Nah, just the the ones who did it to themselves. If you rushed through the game in 2-3 days, then that pretty much sums up WHY your burnt out. Your experiencing the same things over and bypassing 50% of the game content with all your characters. If you honestly could care less about anything else other then beating a game, then go play some RPG or any other fast paced one track game...

I have been through the game 4 times now, first two times i took my sweet time exploring, seeing, experiencing everything i could on the way with my Dervish and Paragon. This helped me see it as a whole new game which left me with a really good impression of this chapter. From that point on i have been getting some non-Elonians through the game and have taken it a bit faster only because i have certain goals in mind, such as capping all new elites, getting to certain areas for armors, beating the game so i can have more profession options for Domain of Anguish, etc...

I don't mean to be harsh at all, but just trying to get the point across that most people that are already sick of Nightfall have simply done it to themselves. As some1 already said, it aint too healthy to jump in a game the day they get it and play 24/7 for 2-3 days only to beat it and be left with an unsatisfied feeling. Honestly, playing like that HOW can you complain about being bored now? I hope that would make you reconsider, or at least think about HOW you play games...

Again, those of you that feel targeted by what i have said, please don't take offense. I truelly just want to help revitalize how you view and play games and more specifically want to see more people as enthralled about Nightfall as i am. If i get flamed, so be it.

cheers!?

Heh...I bought NF at release, and none of my toons have hit the mainland yet.

When Factions went live, there was a great moaning and whining that could be heard for miles away. Peolple were complaining about just about everything and anything.

With Nightfall, I'm just not seeing that... so it's funny to see people complain about all the "complaining" that's going on about Nightfall... when there really isn't any.

It seems Batou of Nine speaks with the voice of reason. It's good advice people, take it...

tbh all i see you do is bitch

Campaigns are as long/short as you want them to be. Yes, prophesies is probably the longest campaign since most of those missions took a long time to complete, but Nightfall can be just as long if you don't power through the game as most hardcore players do.. I have no problem that the missions in nightfall and factions take less time, it allows people to unlock all the skills that are offered quicker, get to the endgame content quicker, etc.

P.S. How is PvP dead? The only changes I see from 6 months ago are the builds(which you will find are always changed quite a bit, especially when a new expansion is added) and the fact that heroes were added. The more skilled players still win the highest majority of the matches.

Im tryin so hard to get all 6 of my pve chars through the game

Got my dervish through, got my necro to the 2nd last mission (the pve to get to the gates is the most annoying), and now on my Ele headin to the desolation (simply because I wanted searing flames and savahna heat).

All thats left is my ranger, monk, and rit. Luckily, since Chapter 4 is rumored to be delayed, then I wont have to worry about rushing too much.

Factions on the other hand was nice and ez and Prophs still induces nostalgia

I dunno, at least it isn't a "thrill ride" that took way *too* long (cough Prophecies cough).

I'd be happy to put my ele in some PUG groups as she goes through, but...

...

... I love casting Firestorm and making stuff run away from the monks...

And we all know how PUGs feel about Firestorm.

Heroes don't kill PUGs, PUGs kill PUGs. :: snicker :: So yes, my ele goes through mostly on her own because I don't want to be judged for how I like doing things. Heroes don't complain about "messing up the aggro". My monk? Sure I'd be happy to PUG - as long as I'm healing people, they usually don't complain much.

I'm with Batou too here. I didn't find the grind all that bad once I knew the tricks to it. The first char through (a Factions mesmer) seemed like the grind sucked, but by the time my ele got there, I already knew how to go through it quickly. It actually went *faster* the more I did it.

But I also don't play THAT much - I go to my job, drum, work on my house, hang with my family, go to the gym, ect. I know that not everyone plays that casualy, but seriously, there's more to life than GW (shocking, I know). If you're getting burnt out, maybe you need some new side hobbies.

Personally, I'd suggest to any person who is tired of playing to take up drawing and doing some commissions for some extra gold, but that's just me. Less playing, more goodies.

... hey maybe I'll go do that...

Half of the builds in HA now are SF. Most are Heroway. That is very un-fun. (Although I win against SF 99% of the time with my own Heroway. PvP is too easy...)

GvG is not easily accessable.

the thing that would make it better are actually the titles, more stats that can be accomplished quicker, like quest stats etc.

a good start would be something like:

completed(1)
completed(2)
completed(3)

sort of rank for your character, instead of kind of bigdeals that comes with ranks of 5, also the ranks now are to hard and setup for 24/7 farming.
(ale, chest, goldid, kurzick, luxan) cant get them all not even if you have a /age of 5k hours.

quicker to complete titles and more of them would be more fun.

cant be botherd farming my last 40.000 lightbringer points... sigh....

You can dress up a duck in a sexy pair of lingerie and smear it's bill in lipstick, but it's still a duck. If you're simply getting burnt out of GW, then it doesn't matter how many new levels/professions/skills/etc. they come out with.

How is this any different from when a majority of the builds were blood spike, vimway, and iway? Wait... it isn't. Seriously, scarred earth generally weeds out the heroways anyway so who gives a shit. Who cares if you always win on UW and broken tower, good luck constantly getting any further than that with heroway. If you don't like it, play during better times (i.e. times when the best players are on).

I found that when I rushed through factions, the last thing I wanted to do after beating it was to go through the whole thing again. I encountered a similar problem as the OP, and stopped after my second run through. I might go back and finish with the others (the farthest with the others is the 2nd mission) one I unlock heros on them.

I've been juggling 3-4 characters and moving them through NF at about the same rate (still have yet to finish on any of them). It's kept me interested constantly, since I still have plenty of new things to look forward to, and I get to do a bit of different pathing (with hero choices or capping) when I do the same mission with a different character.

In fact, the only place I really don't like playing through is the island on my new ele (simply because I've already seen/done all there).

I quite enjoyed playing through Nightfall, but having done everything it has to offer, (except the Domain of Anguish) there's just nothing there to go back to. No endgame content at all. (except the Domain of Anguish)

This leaves me with precious little incentive to play more characters through this chapter. The only reason I'd do that is to enjoy the process of playing another character through Nightfall. And, after having just finished mapping 100%, mastering all missions, doing all quest, levelling and equiping all heroes and capping all elites with one character, I don't feel like starting the process again anytime soon.

I felt much the same about Factions, but Factions added Fort Aspenwood and Arena Battles, which were a great way to spend time in the game. Nightfall lacks replayability, because when you're done, there's nothing to do for the character. (except the Domain of Anguish)

And, after typing '(except the Domain of Anguish)' three times in this post, I feel I must elaborate on that. I will never play there, so I can't take it into account as something to do in the game. I despise it, and everything in it. I find it ugly, cheap, tedious and uninspired. I would rather forget it existed at all.

What they could do is add some new content between the difficulty level of the trivially easy regular NF content, and the difficult Domain of Anguish. Some stepping stone content basically.