Hey folks, I already know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but my disappointment in the current functionality of the skill pushes me to make the request.
The energy cost of Avatar of Melandru is 25. A dervishes unmodified enrgy pool is 25. Ok, fine, you get a coolio hefty skill for the cost of your entire enrgy pool, i can see that. Not a big complaint or problem... until you accumulate even the tiniest amount of DP. I hadn't noticed this on my own dervish (still exploring with my foreing characters), but it came as a painful realization when Melonni died once, and afterward she just kept dropping like a fly. I'm sitting there wondering, sh*t, she's supposed to have this extra 200hp, why is she going down so fast. I pull up her control window, and order her to use the avatar... OOOOHHhhh, she doesn't have enough energy. she's down to 22 of 27 (attunement rune). After just one death. ok...ummm. That's no good. I'm sorry, it just doesn't work. (no smart comments about "well don't die then" please).
The only other prior profession to have a skill wipe their entire energy pool is the ranger (QZ and 2 or 3 other skills). Thing is, they have expertise to easily offset that massive proportional cost. Dervishes don't have much in the way to allow them to use such an expensive skill after having accumulated even a small amount of dp. Even with attunement, it only takes 10%dp to make the skill unusable.
So, what i ask is that the cost be reduced to 20 energy from 25. 20energy still places it as the most expensive of all dervish skills, and a massive (though not complete) chunk of the dervish energy pool. It's already protected from abuse by being placed in the mysticism catagory (limiting effective use to dervishes), so i don't see this change being too much of a problem.
Alternative solution: If lowering the cost causes massive balance issues, i would suggest lowering it to 20, and reducing the health bonus to 150 from 200, or have the amount of health given relative to the level of mysticism.
But as it is, the skill becomes something that can be used in a very limited capacity.
(it was kind of sad to have one of my tanks become a VWbug after just one encounter with a particularly harsh elemental boss)
tweek for Avatar of Melandru?
countesscorpula
lyra_song
Bring a staff for energy use in case of DP.
countesscorpula
ok for me... sucks for my heroes. We all know how easy it is to be switching of weapons sets for them.
That aside, do you see either of the two options presented as being promising?
That aside, do you see either of the two options presented as being promising?
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by countesscorpula
ok for me... sucks for my heroes. We all know how easy it is to be switching of weapons sets for them.
That aside, do you see either of the two options presented as being promising? |
The A.I. cant use any maintained enchantments. Does that mean that we need to tweak those too?
They work perfectly fine on human players.
Look up better dervish builds for the Heros, or dont use her at all.
Theres no need to tweak this skill. As it stands, this is the only skill that can stop the Searing Flames/Arcane Flames metagame and i doubt it will get reduced in cost.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
I dont consider it enough of a problem to warrant changing the skill because the A.I. cant use it right.
The A.I. cant use any maintained enchantments. Does that mean that we need to tweak those too? They work perfectly fine on human players. Look up better dervish builds for the Heros, or dont use her at all. Theres no need to tweak this skill. As it stands, this is the only skill that can stop the Searing Flames/Arcane Flames metagame and i doubt it will get reduced in cost. |
Avatar of Melandru cannot be changed due to pvp. He is an unstoppable machine in GvG. If anything it might get nerfed again.
draxynnic
Actually, there is at least one other way to deal with SF: there's a Water skill that makes the user completely immune to Burning. But Melandru's complete immunity to conditions is still quite powerful.
It might be worth seeing if you can find any skills that can be used to reduce the energy cost. I don't think the glyphs will work, but Energising Winds does, although that is a bit fiddly. There may be others.
The short answer, though, is to consider finding another avatar. Balthazar and Dwayna both have some decent benefits for tanking, although Dwayna does require reasonably heavy skill usage to get full benefits from the healing.
It might be worth seeing if you can find any skills that can be used to reduce the energy cost. I don't think the glyphs will work, but Energising Winds does, although that is a bit fiddly. There may be others.
The short answer, though, is to consider finding another avatar. Balthazar and Dwayna both have some decent benefits for tanking, although Dwayna does require reasonably heavy skill usage to get full benefits from the healing.
countesscorpula
I'm fine with the short answer... but in the long run, when they consider nerfing HER again (as suggested by twicky), i was just hoping they might reduce the cost to 20 at the same time. Kind of like suggestion B Reduce health bonus to 150 and energy cost to 20. Is that objectionable as a solution?
ANd btw, nothing is an unstopable machine. Every build has a weakness.
ANd btw, nothing is an unstopable machine. Every build has a weakness.
Curse You
There's no such thing as a 20 energy skill. 
countesscorpula
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Originally Posted by Curse You
There's no such thing as a 20 energy skill.
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lyra_song
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
The AI can use maintained enchantments. Suppress the enchantment and the hero will not cancel.
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Priest Of Sin
Melandru is already an extremely deadly shutdown for the assassin class (no poison, no bleeding, no deep wound, no blind, no dazed) and is the perfect melee character. Immune to blind? GG, he can keep slashing your guts out even if you use Blinding Flash or Suge on him. Currently the best way to shut him down is Edenial, because the skill has such a high energy cost.
/notsigned, +200hp and immunity to conditions is worth 25 energy
/notsigned, +200hp and immunity to conditions is worth 25 energy
Navaros
I totally disagree with the initial nerfing to this skill.
It should definitely be unnerfed. 25 energy is ridiculous.
Should be 15 energy.
Sure it's hard to kill someone with no conditions on him --- that's why it's an elite skill.
Since there is no damage bonus, the Derv does not become a "killing machine" rather he is merely a "not dying" machine.
/signed for unnerfing Avatar of Melandru to 15 energy
It should definitely be unnerfed. 25 energy is ridiculous.
Should be 15 energy.
Sure it's hard to kill someone with no conditions on him --- that's why it's an elite skill.
Since there is no damage bonus, the Derv does not become a "killing machine" rather he is merely a "not dying" machine.
/signed for unnerfing Avatar of Melandru to 15 energy
Guardian of the Light
/signed
all the other gods got their cool combo
Lyssa with Arcane con
Dwayna with Mending Touch
Grenth with all the scythe attacks
and Balthazar with errrrr frenzy?
Why'd Melandru have to get nerfed for it's combo with weary strike?
all the other gods got their cool combo
Lyssa with Arcane con
Dwayna with Mending Touch
Grenth with all the scythe attacks
and Balthazar with errrrr frenzy?
Why'd Melandru have to get nerfed for it's combo with weary strike?
dargon
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Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Why'd Melandru have to get nerfed for it's combo with weary strike? |
Navaros
^
So then why is the Assasin fighting the Dervish with that form on?
The Assasin could simply run away and/or not go near the Dervish while the form is up.
Saying "an elite skill temporarily stops another class from being able to kill the player for it's duration" is not a justifiable reason to nerf it.
So then why is the Assasin fighting the Dervish with that form on?
The Assasin could simply run away and/or not go near the Dervish while the form is up.
Saying "an elite skill temporarily stops another class from being able to kill the player for it's duration" is not a justifiable reason to nerf it.
BahamutKaiser
There really should be 20 energy skills, there are alot of over and underpriced skills right around that range, and it debilitates balance when a skill should be more powerful for 25 energy, or should cost less for its effect.
jummeth
if you want to have very minor balance changes, you can always make the skill cost 20en but make caster lose 5en in the process.
So the skill costs up to 25en, but you solve the DP thing, it still completely depletes your Energy bar like it should.
After all its one of the strongest forms. It should be quite costly.
So the skill costs up to 25en, but you solve the DP thing, it still completely depletes your Energy bar like it should.
After all its one of the strongest forms. It should be quite costly.
HolyHawk
I understand your concern about the energy base, but immunity to conditions is alone worth 25 energy. 200hp is just a bonus against spikes. It is one of the most balanced avatars in my opinion. It's not broken at all, and usable quite effectively in both pve and pvp. If you want a balance of skill, you should look after grenth's, which is way too powerfull right as it is now.
Nickhimself
Make it 20 Energy, keep everything else the same.
shardfenix
Avatar of melandru is fine. If anything, they should fix it so you never get conditions.
Sir Mad
My poor Koss had the same problem: he didn't have enough energy to recast Mending - just imagine! Oh well...
Actually there are many builds in the game that can completely shut down one class - this is not a problem as what's interesting in GW is the teams, not the individual builds.
No opinion concerning the suggestion of the OP, really.
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| It's not because of the combo that it got nerfed, it's because it completely shuts down another class (assassins). With a 200hp boost and immunity to all conditions, in an assassin vs form of melandru dervish, the only way the assassin will win is if they manage to attack the dervish while the skill is unusable. Any smart dervish would find and take out the assassin long before that. Form of Melandru + Wearying Strike + Heart of Fury = dead assassin. Just so you know, Heart of Fury makes that scythe swing pretty much as fast as daggers, every 1.17 seconds. |
No opinion concerning the suggestion of the OP, really.
countesscorpula
warrior takes a DP hit, goes from 20e, to 17e... can still cast mending. Takes another dp hit. at 14 energy he can still recast mending. Takes yet another DP hit, and he's down to 11... he can STILL cast mending.
Dervish with 10% boost takes a DP hit and drops to 5%DP... can no longer use Avatar of Melandru. End of story.
Not a very good comparison, right?
All i'm saying is that for the base energy that the class has, having a foundation skill completely removed due to a miniscule amount of dp is pretty harsh. A-net, please put this skill on the examination list for the next balancing act, and consider introducing 20e skills as part of attaining over all ballance in the game. It never hurts to have that little bit of leeway... that extra option when designing balanced skills.
Please and thank you for your attention.
Countess Corpula
Dervish with 10% boost takes a DP hit and drops to 5%DP... can no longer use Avatar of Melandru. End of story.
Not a very good comparison, right?
All i'm saying is that for the base energy that the class has, having a foundation skill completely removed due to a miniscule amount of dp is pretty harsh. A-net, please put this skill on the examination list for the next balancing act, and consider introducing 20e skills as part of attaining over all ballance in the game. It never hurts to have that little bit of leeway... that extra option when designing balanced skills.
Please and thank you for your attention.
Countess Corpula
Lax Stick
For the power that this skill gives, loads of health and immunity to conditions, it needs the 25 energy to keep it in balance. If it were changed to 15 energy, would you consider it to be balanced? I sure wouldn't.
Beat_Go_Stick
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Originally Posted by Curse You
There's no such thing as a 20 energy skill.
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countesscorpula
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Originally Posted by Lax Stick
For the power that this skill gives, loads of health and immunity to conditions, it needs the 25 energy to keep it in balance. If it were changed to 15 energy, would you consider it to be balanced? I sure wouldn't.
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legion_rat
are you missing that they have +200 hpand complete imunity to conditions? that makes it 25 energy to me. This one skill verses an assassin cannot be stopped. that makes it unbalanced. No one class should be imune to any other. hard to kill yes but imune no.
/not signed sorry if you can be a "god" character.
~the rat~
/not signed sorry if you can be a "god" character.
~the rat~
countesscorpula
Rat, please learn to read. I have not asked that the energy be dropped and no other changes be made. Make other changes. Please. Pretty please with sugar, make it as balanced as you want. Just don't make it use up MY ENTIRE ENERGY POOL. I don't want to be GOD. I want my skill to function. Is that asking too much? Make it cost 15 and kill the health bonus. Make it cost 20 and cut the health in half and remove the earth damage. Take it out of the game entirely, so it stops freaking taunting me their with its uselessness (in the context of a situation where DP can be applied). Just make it functional.
Kijik Oni Hanryuu
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Originally Posted by countesscorpula
I'm fine with the short answer... but in the long run, when they consider nerfing HER again (as suggested by twicky), i was just hoping they might reduce the cost to 20 at the same time. Kind of like suggestion B Reduce health bonus to 150 and energy cost to 20. Is that objectionable as a solution?
ANd btw, nothing is an unstopable machine. Every build has a weakness. |
countesscorpula
Becareful what you ask for... Health reduced to 150 from 200, energy still at 25. Well it would seem i was half listened too. *Harumph*
Scown-dog
[QUOTE=twicky_kid]
He is an unstoppable machine in GvG. QUOTE]
How dare you call Melandru a man. She is a noble lady!
He is an unstoppable machine in GvG. QUOTE]
How dare you call Melandru a man. She is a noble lady!
Thomas.knbk
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Actually, there is at least one other way to deal with SF: there's a Water skill that makes the user completely immune to Burning. But Melandru's complete immunity to conditions is still quite powerful.
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Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Why'd Melandru have to get nerfed for it's combo with weary strike?
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Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick
I hear they're making 20e spells a new feature in Chapter 4
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Originally Posted by Scown-dog
How dare you call Melandru a man. She is a noble lady!
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As for the OP, ask anyone who ever pvp's. Ever.They will say that it's perfectly fine as it is. Overpowered rather than underpowered. If that means your heroes can't use it without switching weapons for them, I'm sorry. Reducing the energy is not the way to fix that. Don't try to balance skills around heroes.
Quest_techie
1. if machine = man how come cars, ships, aeroplanes and trains tend to be called ladies?
2. 20 energy skills are viable and should be considered
3. avatar of melandru is dreadfuly powerful, but to kill the energy pool of a character seems incredibly harsh, if a "cannot use any attack skills for 20..8.3 seconds after activation" clause were added that solves your wearying problem, drop it to 20 energy, 150 health <conditional to mysticism, up to 180 at 16 maybe?> and work out any existing kinks
that gives a window of vulnerability that is not complete <can still use enchants, attacks, hexes, whatever, just not attack SKILLS> makes the skill almost totally unusable for dervish secondaries <as though it weren't already> and maintains it's shiny elite goodness
2. 20 energy skills are viable and should be considered
3. avatar of melandru is dreadfuly powerful, but to kill the energy pool of a character seems incredibly harsh, if a "cannot use any attack skills for 20..8.3 seconds after activation" clause were added that solves your wearying problem, drop it to 20 energy, 150 health <conditional to mysticism, up to 180 at 16 maybe?> and work out any existing kinks
that gives a window of vulnerability that is not complete <can still use enchants, attacks, hexes, whatever, just not attack SKILLS> makes the skill almost totally unusable for dervish secondaries <as though it weren't already> and maintains it's shiny elite goodness
countesscorpula
Twixky_kid said "HE was an unstoppable machine". I think that's why the other poster pointed out Melandru is a SHE... noble lady... female plant thingy.
TheSlyOne
Well, it seems that they nerfed the combo further. AoM still costs 25e, doesn't last as long, and wearying strike has a recharge of 4 now instead of 2. So, Countess, we still lose. I wanted them to modify her energy too... T_T But oh wells. I have found new love in my Reaper's Sweep build. No more need for AoM.
Kool Pajamas
There are these things called attunement runes and there are insignias that add energy. USE THEM.
Chaos Herald
A good buff would be so that it would only cost 20 energy, but if you successfully cast it, you would lose 5 energy. That way, you could still cast it, but you'd end up being in energy debt.
TheSlyOne
[skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill] [skill]Wearying Strike[/skill] used to be awesome, but they keep nailing it. I just wish that they had 20e skills. That would be great. But I wouldn't mind if they would drop some of the hp from Melandru and drop her energy cost. An entire energy pool is a little ridiculous. I know we have attunement and secondary weapon sets and whatnot, but you don't see any 120e ele spells do you?
sh4d0whunta
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Originally Posted by countesscorpula
no one asked to make it 15. I said 20... and you can cut the health bonus, or the damage type or whatever, but the entire energy pool is too harsh. I agree that 15 energy would be too cheap for all it gives you, i'm just saying it stops being usable in the long term at 25 energy
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dargon
Eles are also vulnerable to a lot of things, Dervish's in FoM ignore every last condition, which includes lava, blindness, etc. Add to that the nice high damage that a scythe does and well 25 energy is just fine.
linh
There is a thing called "weapon swap" to cast high energy skill. And if you want to balance skill base on NPC AI, then I lol.