Does Razah have a full skill-point count when hes achieved?

I wasnt able to find this on guildwiki or anywhere.

But I just kind of realise something. Since Razah is only provided with 5 or 6 skills, and we're expected to get him the rest, does that mean he has a full set of skill-points or enough to spend on them all?

Because if he has non or not-enough, then Id say ive found a major issue.

If he doesnt have enough, or any, then how do we get him more?

Hero skill-points are gained by increasing rank in sunspear and lightbringer to my knowledge. Two things which either cant be done at present, or it entails alot of mindless grinding.

Plus the amount needed in lightbringer points to reach the next rank(s) is huge.

So we cant get him more if has non or very few, so how can we purchase his free skills from the Hero skill trader?

This only leaves one option.

We use up our gold and our skill-points to do it.

We use our gold to unlock Rit as a secondary and spend our skill-points and gold on skills for him to share.

Skill-points and gold which we might otherwise need.

Am I wrong and does Razah have enough skill points for all his NF skills? or am I right in thinking he wouldnt?

.....or you could simply play PvP.

Hero skills aren't an issue to us that play PvP, especially GvG, since unlocking ALL skills in the game is essential anyways.
I can understand if you don't have prophecies or faction, and haven't unlocked any Rt skills, that you may have a problem with using Razah.
However, those of us who have been playing the game, and have been playing PvP, have most Rt skills unlocked anyways, so it really doesn't matter.

And no, he didn't come with a "full set of hero skill points" or anything. Not that I need any.... I have bunch of hero skill points unused, and no use for them anymore
As soon as I got him, I made him into a standard communing spirit spammer, and take him along wherever I go.

He will have whatever rit skills you have unlocked. You don't even need to buy them, just go RA for awhile and unlock them that way.

And for those of us lucky enough to have a Ritualist, he'll have every skill you've got on your PvE character

Seriously, the best skill trainer in the game is at the Great Temple of Balthazar. His name is The Priest of Balthazar [Rewards]. He's even leeter than any skill trainer in ember light, senji's corner, gate of torment.

I have unlocked him in PvP, but PvP sucks and I get bored with it.

But back the world of PvE which this is on about.

Playing as Ritualist and playing all the way through factions just to get all the rit skills to let Raza use is beyond the call of duty.

It just proves me point then. How does Anet expect us to equip a Hero when we're unable to earn more hero skill-points?

Again, a good reason to give him to us fully equipped if hes at the end of the game.

Anet expect you to PvP or buy the skills.

Razah shouldn't even be in Nightfalls considering Ritualist is a Factions class. Just be happy Anet gave way to popular demand.

Razah was just going to be a variable class for any of the 8 classes in Nightfall if I remember right.

Razah is hard to unlock since you need to beat Nightfall first than get into DoA to unlock him. Don't know if he is worth the time and effort to do it.

Someone could make the same (flawed) argument about EVERY.SINGLE.HERO.IN.THE.GAME.

"I got this Koss, but I HATE WARRIORS, I refuse to use my points to give him skills because I refuse to unlock dirty warrior skills - Anet give my Koss all the skillzors1@[email protected]@!!!"

Sadly this is the only way

Play pve with a rit to get a bunched unlocked
Switch your sub to Rit and buy skills (great for targeted build.. not good in long run)
Use hero points
Use pvp faction points

If you go pvp route, I found Fort Jade / Alliance Battles to be the more enjoyable route of earning faction.

Given the trouble you need to get to him .. and someone how "comes from the mists" making him sound uber cool ... I would think he have a bit more w/ the trouble you have to get to him.

You assume he has Factions.

That is why some people in NCSoft spent 3 years of their worthless lives getting a degree in marketing...

you dont need to beat it to unlock him.

Unless I'm mistaken, and I might be seeing as I haven't finished DoA to the point of getting him yet, all unlocked skills on your account can be used by him, so you don't have to go to the hero trainer, who will only share a certain amount of skills anyway, but rather unlock those skills that you really want via another character or pvp.

And.. correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have him in pvp, surely you'd have some nice rit skills already?

Except for the huge different between Koss and Razah being that Koss you gain at the start and you have plenty of opportunities to increase his skill-points by increasing sunspear and lightbringer ranks, which allow you to unlock his skills for free.

If Razah is provided to us with few or no skill-points, then how can we get him more?

Or if their combined accross out Heroes, and we use them up on the other ones, how can we get more?

Increasing sunspear rank is impossible at the moment and increasing lightbringer is tedious and boring and you would only have about 4 ranks left.

This is my entire arguement about how its doesnt make sense and its unfair to then expect us to spend our gold unlocking a secondary profession in PvE which we might never use. Then to expect us to use up our limited skill-points to unlock his skills and cap his elites.

He is just very un-fullfilling as a reward. I like how he is a aquired, at the end of the DoA. But its very little that their giving us.

I do!

I mentioned that I dont like PvP, so im hardly going to create a PvP character. Id find it boring and tediously playing PvP just to earn rit skills.

So this idea of making a PvP char to unlock the skills for a PvE Heroe alienates those who dont enjoy PvP.

Even if you don't like PvP, you can get 2 Rit skills by playing Zaishen Challenge for 5~10min a day. It's not PvP, you're going up agaisnt NPCs.
It capps at 2000 faction, but you can wipe an entire team of Zaishen mesmers in 40~50 seconds. I'm sure you won't find 5~10min of play too tedious, and much faster than earing skill points or hero skill points.
Just give it a try.

there was nothing stopping you using you hero skill points to unlock rit skills.

Hero skill points are shared between all your heros, each hero doesnt have its own seperate tally of them. So if you dont have any rit skills unlocked start using your unused hero skill point on rit skills asap.

Personally I think it more frustrating that heros have access to all your accounts unlocked skills, but pve chars require each skill to be unlocked per char. To this day I find that insanely frustrating.

There is no corelation between sunspear/lightbringer ranks and and skill points.

Skill points are aquired on lvl 20 toons by acheiving a certain amount of XP , that amount is now 15,000 XP reduced from 20,000 XP last year. You also can get skill points as quest rewards..

The number of skill points one can achieve is unlimited, there is no cap on skill points.


Then pretend he doesn't exist and play the parts of the game you find fulfilling. GW is fun, not a job. Don't force yoursself to play.

off topic.. but Harvest Temple is better than senji's, as Zenaida there has all factions skills! apart from the elites of course

1. Change your secondary to Rt.

2. Go to a town with a skill trainer.

3. Talk to the trainer and purchase any rit skills you like.

4. Take a cap sig and kill a Rt boss.

Or you could just unlock them with another characters Hero Skill Points. Or do you only play the game with one character? Hint: Don't unlock skills with Hero Points taht you already have unlocked.

Farming 2000 Balthazar faction in the Training Arenas or against an easily countered Zaishen Challenge team is a lot quicker than farming 2 platinum or 2 skill points. If you start now you should have all the Nightfall Ritualist skills unlocked by the end of the month. Don't bother with Warmonger's Weapon, Wielder's Strike, Sight Beyond Sight or Wielder's Boon since Razah already has those skills when you recruit him. Unfortunately it would be a lot more tedious unlocking the Factions skills.

Wait a second, I'm getting a bit confused.

Someone capable of either
-buying 4 DoA gems (hundreds of thousands gold, IIRC) or
-getting through each zone of DoA
AND
-fight his way to Razah

can't be bothered to switch his secondary to ritualist, see a few trainers and pay up to 8000 gold to buy 8 skills needed to make Razah whatever you want? I don't get it.

Well unless you've bought Factions then you're screwed, since buying only proph or nf will not grant you the access to Ritualist secondary... unless through pvp ofcourse, which hard core pveers don't seem to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but changing secondaries has nothing to do with pvp, unles those 'hard core pveers' can't bear to dirty their dainty little toes by setting foot in the temple of Balthazar. The profession changer is just sitting right there in the temple, no actual pvp needed. Only costs 500g, if you can't spare that by the time you finish nightfall I got to ask what you been throwing cash at. And skills, even without Factions you can get about 25 skills right? Surely you can work something out of that. And you can get 2k balth faction a day from the zaishen challenges, which are really just pve anyway.

Oddly, they really suck at marketing.

There is no requirement of having Factions to get Razah. Arena Net completely stops supporting previous chapters when they make a new one - there is no reason to buy a previous chapter. So the majority of people are stuck with and will be stuck with just Nightfall skills for Razah, if they get him. That makes Razah an disproportionately hard hero to gain.


You're wrong. It doesn't matter where you go, if you can't change your profession to Ritualist in one place, you can't do it in another, seems pretty bloody obvious but leave it to a condescending PvPer to not get it.

assuming you only own Nightfall

most GW players *do* own Factions

even more GW players, who do the Razah quest, already own all 3 chapters

I think you missed my entire point slightly.

You get Razah at the end, what quests are you talking about doing to gain more skill-points?

This is my entire point.

Lets say you spent all your existings hero points before Razah was released or without thinking, then this new Hero comes along and your thinking "damn, now what."

Your stuffed basically. There are NO quests to attain skill-points on.

And I was pretty sure your Heroes gained skill-points as you increased rank in sunspear or lightbringer. I may have been wrong. But even if I was right, you cant do that either.

The only resort left for PVE people (who dont like PvP and dont want to be forced to play PvP to unlock skills) is to either buy Rit as a secondary and use up our money and points to buy them skills, or make a whole new character.

Personally I dont want to play PvP, and I dont want to play as a Ritualist because I dont enjoy it. So why would I play through the whole of factions just to unlock all the skills, and why would I play through PvP which I dont enjoy.

Heros do not earn skill points

your character earns 2 hero points for every rank of Sunspear/Lightbringer

if you run out of Hero points (due to being max rank in both), your only option is to use a different character,who has not been to Nightfall yet, to get more Hero points


regardless,
Hero skill points open only Nightfall Ritualist skills
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Skills_...28Nightfall%29

you can say the same about every class in game ...

I dont want to play a Warrior to unlock Warrior skills, etc

Does no one read anything. FGS!!

Im on about Razah, not the other Heroes. I have no issues about getting skills for the other Heroes because YOU GET THEM AT THE START OF THE GAME, OR HALF WAY THROUGH. So you have more then enough time left to earn more hero skill points to unlock their skills.

You DONT NEED to play as a warrior to unlock Koss's skills because you can UNLOCK them with the ample supply of hero-skills your given.

The POINT (if anyone read this properly) im trying to make is that by the time you get Razah, you might not have any Hero-Skill-points left, or very few.

So how the hell are you meant to unlock his nightfall Rit skills?

There are no more quests to give them away.

Increasing in sunspear rank is impossible at this time.

Increasing in lightbringer rank would take forever and by this time, most only have 4 ranks left.

There are no missions to give them away.

This is the point; If you have no Hero-skill-points, or very few left then you cant unlock his skills in an acceptable way.

I say acceptable, because not fair to expect us to use OUR gold and OUR personal skill-points to unlock Rit as a secondary and then purchase those skills.

Gold we may need and skill-points we need.

Its unnacceptable because we didnt need to do that with the Heroes which we get at the start or half way through. Because we had enough Hero skill points left. It didnt cost us to unlock their skills.

And its not acceptable for Anet to expect us to just jump into PvP and unlock them for a PvE Hero (if thats even possible). Not everyone likes PvP. I personally find even a few minutes of it boring and tedious.

And its not acceptable to ask us to create a whole new Ritualist character, and to play through an entire campaign to get Rit faction Skills for him to use.

We dont all want to play as a Rit, so why would we? why should we?

Are you understanding?

Is it really too much to ask that either;

We're given enough Hero skill points to unlock all the Nightfall Rit skills when we get Razah or we're given him with a full set of Nightfall Rit normal and elite skills?

Because otherwise he is utterly useless and expensive to use for pure PvE'rs.

And for those who dont own or want to own factions, this is even less possible to do. They dont have the option to play as a Rit and earn those skills in either PvE or PvP. So how can they use Razah?

you are incorrect


some people may *not* have a mesmer or ranger or necro hero until they *finish the game*
(depending on their quest choices)


not getting a mesmer hero (because you have Goren) until you finish the game is the same "lack of hero points problem" as Razah


"hero skill trainer" skills are independent of your existing profession or existing heroes
ie. you dont need to own a mesmer hero, to train mesmer hero skills

I guess Razah is just a Vanity Hero then.

The probelm I have with your rant is on one character you get what maybe 20ish hero skill points. So to make a good build you will still end up spending your own skill points and gold to get skills to make a good build for all you heros.. If you don't want to PVP. I think the fact that Razah is a rit is odd and a disappointment, but this whole hero points thing rant is a little silly

I thought you have to beat the game to unlock DoA where you can get him?

Only other way is PvP Faction points. But not accessible via your pve character. If you want him unlocked for pve.. you have to beat the game then do DOA.

Thats true, except that once you gain the other heroes, you can still go do missions with them and other quests. They provide the chance to gain maybe a tiny few more skill-points for them.

Razah is just utterly useless as you get him at the VERY end.

So any chances for quests or missions are all gone to use him in, or to perhaps gain more skill-points for him.

Thats my entire point.

If they dont provide him with enough skill points to unlock all his skills, or give him with them all, then they need to add more quests or a way to gain more hero skill points.

If you're a pve-centric person...then surely you have the money to buy Rajah skills? After all, what is there to do in pve once you finish the game but farm/chestrun/beat bosses for greens?

And if you're a pvp-centric person...well obviously you can just use balth's faction. Since the faction cap increases and rate increases, I think it's fair to say anyone who's a PvPer is at UAS by now.

It is not correct. All skills for heroes are unlocked per account basis. Any style of unlocking works good PvP or PvE. So, if you ever had Rt, you have unlocked skills for hero.

If you have multiple characters, all gold goes to skills. LOL
BTW, all Nightfall Rt and Sin skills (not elite) are available at every skill trainer here. Caening City trainer has most of Faction skills.

freekedoutfish:

Heroes don't have their own skill points. Each of your PvE characters earns "hero skill points" as he gains ranks in LB and SS title lines. These can be used to unlock skills from hero skill trainers no matter what profession they are or what heroes you currently have. That means, when you spend your hero skill points, you can use them to unlock Rit skills, which Razah can use (or any other heroes with a Rit secondary if you have Factions) when you get him. I understand you have used all your hero skill points on your character that has or wants to get Razah. OK. Do you have any other characters ? They can rise through the SS and LB ranks as well, unlocking Rit skills at hero skill trainers just the same. It doesn't matter which PvE character unlocks them from the hero skill trainer, all heroes on your account can use them. So, perhaps, that is your solution - a different PvE character with hero skill points available.

BTW, Shadowspawn X completely missed the point and was explaining regular skill points, not hero skill points.