I think the Ritualist is almost dead.....
Terra Xin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino
The Ritualist, just like the Assassin, are fine surgeons tools... in the right hands they are quite deadly. However, if you don't have an intimate understanding of how these professions work, and hours upon hours of logged practice in PvP and PvE.... then you'll quickly dismiss them as "broken" and "unusuable"
That's true, alot of people who think rits are broken, just suck at playing them themselves. Simple math :P
paulscott
thats whats good about playing a rare class. only people who know what's up are gonna let you in.
fleshvirus
Are you blind? there is allot of ritualists Everywhere!
Skuld
yeh, hours. broken.
Patccmoi
I think Rts are still a very strong class honestly, if one of the hardest one to handle properly no matter what people think (since Rt Lords, it seems a lot of people just classed Rt as a very boring and newb class to play where all you do is sit and spam spirits but about every good Rt builds hardly does that).
Offensive spirit spamming is something no other class can really achieve and it's really good pressure. They have some really powerful Weapon spells when used properly (Warmonger imo is a skill unmatched by other classes for its use, WoQuickening is extremely good when you have a team that takes advantage of it since it can be kept on 3-4 people, etc.). Channeling Nuking is the most reliable high damage single target nuking in the game imo. Don't compare Channeled Strike with LOrb and say 'LOrb does about 5 more damage so it's better'. LOrb misses all the damn time, no Rt nuke out of Spirit Rift ever misses. It's a HUGE difference. And no, a Channeler can't fit something like BFlash or Gale, but they can fit Warmonger and some powerful heal support (you can easily go something like 14/15 Channeling-13/14 Restoration and skills from both lines will be very efficient).
The thing about Rt is really synergy. You need a team build that synergizes really well with Rts. Usually you'll need spirits on more than 1 char for Rts to work to their full potential. I don't think they are broken and inferior at all. If you try to mimick a monk, you'll be inferior, but that's not what a Rt should do anyway. They have different ways to do things and they have different strengths that you must take advantage of. The reason why people see Rt as bad eles or bad monks is that they try to copy a monk or ele role while a Rt has its own strengths that you must exploit if you want to not be a subpar copycat.
Personally i really think that Rts are much better than most give them credit for. But i don't expect people to agree until some top 10 guilds run Rts.
Offensive spirit spamming is something no other class can really achieve and it's really good pressure. They have some really powerful Weapon spells when used properly (Warmonger imo is a skill unmatched by other classes for its use, WoQuickening is extremely good when you have a team that takes advantage of it since it can be kept on 3-4 people, etc.). Channeling Nuking is the most reliable high damage single target nuking in the game imo. Don't compare Channeled Strike with LOrb and say 'LOrb does about 5 more damage so it's better'. LOrb misses all the damn time, no Rt nuke out of Spirit Rift ever misses. It's a HUGE difference. And no, a Channeler can't fit something like BFlash or Gale, but they can fit Warmonger and some powerful heal support (you can easily go something like 14/15 Channeling-13/14 Restoration and skills from both lines will be very efficient).
The thing about Rt is really synergy. You need a team build that synergizes really well with Rts. Usually you'll need spirits on more than 1 char for Rts to work to their full potential. I don't think they are broken and inferior at all. If you try to mimick a monk, you'll be inferior, but that's not what a Rt should do anyway. They have different ways to do things and they have different strengths that you must take advantage of. The reason why people see Rt as bad eles or bad monks is that they try to copy a monk or ele role while a Rt has its own strengths that you must exploit if you want to not be a subpar copycat.
Personally i really think that Rts are much better than most give them credit for. But i don't expect people to agree until some top 10 guilds run Rts.
Geishe
I was observing HA teams today. And I saw Rt/P's in at least 4 teams!! They mostly used Shelter/Union/Wanderlust... but no paragon skills from what I saw.
The provided support was phenomenal. Dead? I think we're just starting to be recognized again.
The provided support was phenomenal. Dead? I think we're just starting to be recognized again.
Redfeather1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geishe
I was observing HA teams today. And I saw Rt/P's in at least 4 teams!! They mostly used Shelter/Union/Wanderlust... but no paragon skills from what I saw.
The provided support was phenomenal. Dead? I think we're just starting to be recognized again. Can you post everything you remember them using?
I would really like to play with a Rt/P and I need some help for a place to start.
I tried a Spirit's Strength build with one, but dang those spears can be hard to land.
The provided support was phenomenal. Dead? I think we're just starting to be recognized again. Can you post everything you remember them using?
I would really like to play with a Rt/P and I need some help for a place to start.
I tried a Spirit's Strength build with one, but dang those spears can be hard to land.

unmatchedfury
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Xin
edit: btw, saying that elementalists can outpower rits without any sort of testing done on your behalf is half an assuption.
your saying you could beat a searing flames ele? This I highly dought.
Geishe
Quote:
Originally Posted by unmatchedfury
your saying you could beat a searing flames ele? This I highly dought.
Searing flames is the only recognized Elementalist spike build right now. Rits are crawling all over pvp with Spirit Spamming/Healing/RARE channeling spikes. Elementalists are elementalists/Ritualists are ritualists, theres no point in saying who can outdamage who as they can both be potential predators. It also does not fortify the topic of this thread.
AND for Redfeather... The skills I saw: Union/Shelter/Wanderlust/Pain/Signet of binding/Res sig... and the other two I missed. One was Rt/P one was Rt/E.
Heres some proof:

AND for Redfeather... The skills I saw: Union/Shelter/Wanderlust/Pain/Signet of binding/Res sig... and the other two I missed. One was Rt/P one was Rt/E.
Heres some proof:


Skuld
um, sf = fame farm, the rit/n/r builds = semi holding
Terra Xin
Quote:
Originally Posted by unmatchedfury
your saying you could beat a searing flames ele? This I highly dought.
Searing Flames???
There was a thread in Sardelac asking for that skill to get nerfed. I was opposed to the idea. No, searing Flames is easy to beat, I've scrimmaged many, and beaten many in uncontrolled circumstances. They can't self-heal for bollocks, I can.
There was a thread in Sardelac asking for that skill to get nerfed. I was opposed to the idea. No, searing Flames is easy to beat, I've scrimmaged many, and beaten many in uncontrolled circumstances. They can't self-heal for bollocks, I can.
Illuminus
Pfft, Warmongers Weapon can easily mess up an Elementalist casting spells
.
And no, ritualists are not dying out...

And no, ritualists are not dying out...
noocoo
Maybe those Rt/P used zealous spear for energy?
Just a guess..
Just a guess..

Skuld
They used song of concentration or no secondary skills, at a guess.
samcobra
Why the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO would searing flames eles heal themselves? they're not monks. They're not meant to be. Thats what dunkoro and tahlkora are for. DUH!
Geishe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
um, sf = fame farm, the rit/n/r builds = semi holding
Heya, Im a total HA noob, so I really am not sure what those mean >.< I only saw them in HA because I wanted to learn, so monsieur, if you could be so kind to describe what they mean??
Or is it the Spirit spamming build supplying energy to necro's?? Or is that something else? Ablalalablab, so many questions, sorry for my noobness.
Or is it the Spirit spamming build supplying energy to necro's?? Or is that something else? Ablalalablab, so many questions, sorry for my noobness.
Franco Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geishe
Heya, Im a total HA noob, so I really am not sure what those mean >.< I only saw them in HA because I wanted to learn, so monsieur, if you could be so kind to describe what they mean??
Or is it the Spirit spamming build supplying energy to necro's?? Or is that something else? Ablalalablab, so many questions, sorry for my noobness.
I didnt bother reading the other posts
but
SF = cookie cutter build that everyone is using to farm fame and gain rank and boost their e-peen
( kinda like IWAY )
The ritualist spirit spamming supplies energy to necros because of the necro primary atribute Soul Reaping, the ritualist or ranger keeps spamming spirits which fuels the necros with unlimited energy and also pressures the opponent which doesnt have soul reaping , for example NR or QZ.
Or is it the Spirit spamming build supplying energy to necro's?? Or is that something else? Ablalalablab, so many questions, sorry for my noobness.
I didnt bother reading the other posts

SF = cookie cutter build that everyone is using to farm fame and gain rank and boost their e-peen

The ritualist spirit spamming supplies energy to necros because of the necro primary atribute Soul Reaping, the ritualist or ranger keeps spamming spirits which fuels the necros with unlimited energy and also pressures the opponent which doesnt have soul reaping , for example NR or QZ.
Geishe
Oh thank you much for the explanation. I had just recently decided to move my lovely Mortissia from PvE into PvP... hence my extreme noobness. Thanks again.
Carth`
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Xin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Xin
No, searing Flames is easy to beat, I've scrimmaged many, and beaten many in uncontrolled circumstances. They can't self-heal for bollocks, I can.
Nobody cares about 1v1 scrimmage, it isn't a test of anything except who happens to have the build that counters another build. Btw, an SF can bring Mystic Regeneration and have constant +9 health regeneration and continue killing you while that heals. But why bother when a monk can heal you, and the ele can get to killing stuff?
Jetdoc
I'm slowing changing the attitudes towards Ritualists one PuG at a time...
![]() Last night, I just got done soloing (without henchmen) the Dunes of Despair bonus with my Rt/E, and noticed a group was looking for a necrotic transversal necro to do the bonus. Unfortunately, this poor group had heard of the trick, but had absolutely no idea how to pull it off (i.e. no vampiric weapons at all). So, I joined their group and soloed the bonus for them. They were quite impressed with the power of a ritualist... ![]() frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I'm slowing changing the attitudes towards Ritualists one PuG at a time...
![]() Last night, I just got done soloing (without henchmen) the Dunes of Despair bonus with my Rt/E, and noticed a group was looking for a necrotic transversal necro to do the bonus. Unfortunately, this poor group had heard of the trick, but had absolutely no idea how to pull it off (i.e. no vampiric weapons at all). So, I joined their group and soloed the bonus for them. They were quite impressed with the power of a ritualist... ![]() ![]() Horseman Of War
i think its more of just a case (and definately NOT everyone here falls into this category!) of people not understanding the class.
On the arguement of SF eles- I could train my dog to play a searing flames ele-- there is NO intelligence required. As far as rits= you need to be conscious of the battlefield, and a million other factors. The rit might have lost popularity, and it was already one of the least common classes to see- The problem is that nobody thinks they can do anything - any noob will tell you to play a straight ele or monk rather than a ritualist... because of their nonsense ideas of how to play channeling or restoration rits. The spirit spammer (a misnomer, since you cant Spam something that goes so slow..) will never die. My rit got me half my Gladiator points using restoration, channeling, spirit spam (doh), and explosive MM growth builds. The only thing I havent got down yet is a melee weapon rit tank... but ive seen them. frojack
I wouldn't call em 'tanks' ^_^. That's my main problem with using one at the mo. I really don't like light-armour melee...
Kais Unduli
Ritualists are far from dead. I'm seeing more and more rits popping up in missions and outposts, and some of them have the Vabbi or Ancient armor, which means the people playing them are dedicated to them.
Patccmoi
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
I wouldn't call em 'tanks' ^_^. That's my main problem with using one at the mo. I really don't like light-armour melee...
They're really not that frail. With stats at 12 Weapon/13 Spawning/9 Tactics, using a full Ghostforge armor (+15AL in weapon spell) and a shield (+45/-2 while enchanted is best imo cause if you're not enchanted you shouldn't be in melee in the first place), you have 91 base AL. If you use Watch Yourself!, it raises to 108AL.
We used Rt/Ws in GvG and they don't go down any easier than a warrior Servant of Kali
If you guys are talking about PvE, Ritualist is still one of the strongest classes there.. A well-played Ritualist that is. In some team builds and some game areas, it has certain advantages than no other class atm has.
Dr Strangelove
A lot of the ritualist hate comes from them being slow. This makes them a liability in the early game, where you can plow through an entire mob in the 5 seconds it takes to cast just one offensive spirit. In the late game, however, their unremovable weapon spells, armor-ignoring spirit damage, and group protection potential makes them invaluable. Unfortunately, most people never take them past the early game.
Terra Xin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth`
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Of course, I use Lyssa's Balance in my build, so har har to your silly regen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman of War
The problem is that nobody thinks they can do anything - any noob will tell you to play a straight ele or monk rather than a ritualist... because of their nonsense ideas of how to play channeling or restoration rits.
That's true. Anyone who plays a rit will try to make comparisons towards other classes, and then base their abilities on that. Its a really stupid thing to do - and it's exactly what happened with the Mesmer, right up until Nightfall came out and the Mesmers' increased attire of offensive, high damaging skills. They're capable of pulling off a 400 untyped damage spike in 4 seconds - every 30 seconds. But nobody looks at that.
For those who know how to play a ritualist properly, they are entirely capable of... you know what? They're like females, capable of doing many things at once.... there you go - how about them apples^^. But if there is one thing I would love for the negatives to take away with them, it's this: Ritualists are the masters of skill SYNERGY. Every skill works well and works even better with other attribute lines. Ritualists work much, much more effectively when there are two of them. They have a high DPS and the longest term DPS on a single target in the game (I don't care how many times you think they don't. They do.) frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Xin
Like I said before, you have no basis to say that elementalists can overpower ritualists when you are basing that on... well... nothing really. Fortunately for me, I only need to be a ritualist to know they can outdamage an ele, because ive done so... many many... wonderful times.... ahhh great times. And no, I'm not just talking about 1 on 1 scrimmages. Though I do feel insulted that you think im a nobody, I care about scrimmages.
Of course, I use Lyssa's Balance in my build, so har har to your silly regen. That's true. Anyone who plays a rit will try to make comparisons towards other classes, and then base their abilities on that. Its a really stupid thing to do - and it's exactly what happened with the Mesmer, right up until Nightfall came out and the Mesmers' increased attire of offensive, high damaging skills. They're capable of pulling off a 400 untyped damage spike in 4 seconds - every 30 seconds. But nobody looks at that. For those who know how to play a ritualist properly, they are entirely capable of... you know what? They're like females, capable of doing many things at once.... there you go - how about them apples^^. But if there is one thing I would love for the negatives to take away with them, it's this: Ritualists are the masters of skill SYNERGY. Every skill works well and works even better with other attribute lines. Ritualists work much, much more effectively when there are two of them. They have a high DPS and the longest term DPS on a single target in the game (I don't care how many times you think they don't. They do.) When it comes to synergy with 2, the elementalist has similar co-op ability. Still, no one cares (it's so annoying). Also, 1 v 1 is rubbish. A build can be constructed to take out any opposing class, as long as you know what that class is. It holds no value. What it all boils down to is this; The Ritualist has potential. They can do a lot of good but they are highly precarious creatures. Highly situational. Obviously too much so for most people (high-end or low) to deal with. They are a class who's variety and flexibility is their key attribute. They exist however in an environment(meta-game) that requires efficiency and strength in a particular area. That strength (in this environment) unfortunately can't be flexibility. The only thing that they can do differently is Spirits, but we all know how well they work in pvp... Maybe it's just the way people want to play the game (en-mass). Until flexibility becomes a key component in mid-high end pvp, Ritualists will be rare and the hate will be common. EDIT: I did see quite a few in HA though. Spirit-spamming (using Recovery to remove Conditions faster etc) to power Necro's. HA however is now the gutter as far as I'm concerned. Especially when all I see is "5/6 lf 1 more SF ele to complete team!". Can Anet please either nerf this skill or improve it's counters? Do something? It's not over-powered but it's over-used... Redfeather1975
I think I've already mentioned this here. Maybe I did only in the other guildwars fansites, but in Everquest 2 the community was experienced enough and used lots of in-depth analysis to actually figure out what classes are best used with other classes. Guild Wars has multiple tank professions now and multiple healing professions to. Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Different sustained dps or healing potential, different spike dps or healing potential, avoidance tanking or mitigation tanking. They all have their own builds and those builds can work better when in a group working with other particular builds.
I wish people were not thinking about how a class is essentially the best at this and not good at that, because that has absolutely nothing to do with what builds/professions work better with other group members builds/professions. Maybe the average player is not at that point of experience yet? Maybe with the addition of Hero Battles, people will get more experience in developing entire group builds. I know the main Guild Wars site now has sections on group synergy and even gives examples of different builds for each profession and how they work better with other professions with certain types of builds. I know that the guildwars wiki posts group builds, but they are so few and far between that you end up seeing the average player only looking for professions to fit these few cookie cutter groups. There's so much more potential out there then the few group builds I see for areas. I can't wait until the more experienced players start posting not single builds, but entire group builds, where each profession is using their skills together in a way similar to how a single build would be using it's primary and secondary together. Like a Necro party member casts Dark Aura on the Ritualist and the Ritualist starts spamming sacrifice heals on themselves to do AOE damage now. That's just off the top of my head. ![]() Oh yeah. I'm sure I'm not the first to notice this combo, but it's my first time trying it! Is cool. frojack
Exactly. Good idea by the way. Though I'm sure the high-end pvp guys construct team builds already. It's just telling how little the ritualist features.
Still, I like the idea of posting team builds. I rarely post builds as it is (I guess I think most of mine are basic enough for most people to grasp by themselves) but I'll try and put some team builds together when time allows... edit: Interesting video. Never considered using Swap like that. Very interesting indeed... unmatchedfury
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
Redfeather1975
Patccmoi, disregard my post in gwo about me thinking you were making fun of me. I didn't know you hadn't seen the post I made asking for help with swap. I thought you were poking fun that you got Glaive to work when I'd said I couldn't get it to work at all.
![]() Carth`
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Xin
Of course, I use Lyssa's Balance in my build, so har har to your silly regen.
lol, you're thinking as if it's a 1v1 game again. I could daze you, and har har to your entire skill bar. Everything has a counter, silly scrimmage matches only prove who happens to have the counter to the other player's build. Or maybe if they're even matches, it proves who gets the first hit.
I like the ritualist, it's fun to play sometimes, I play it for variety when bored. But for most situations, another character would be better. Toll Booth Willie
I like playing my rit occasionally but it was a pain getting in a PUG. Now with heros and hench i don't have to worry abou that anymore.
I think some classes will start to die out though with 2 new classes coming out every 6 months. Also Anet wants to sell copies of each new campaign so the new classes have to be equal or better than the current classes. Rits still have a place in the game but as more chapters come out some classes will become less played. (i'm sleepy and after re-reading this I really didn't convay my point well but i want sleep more than a re-write) Khaunshar
Actually so far it looks like Anet is more or less trying to keep the new classes below the powerlevel of the core classes. At least Factions went that way, and it starts in Nightfall as well.
Its almost as if there is the rule that no expansion class may ever surpass a core class in an area they compete in. Kais Unduli
It will be interesting to see how the new classes affect the game. In Factions we have 1 melee and 1 caster class, and in Nightfall we have 2 melee classes. When the next chapter comes out, we'll have to see if Anet brings in any new caster classes, and how they interact with the professions we already have.
That being said, I don't think we'll see anything related to the ritualist, so it's safe to say we'll still be around in Chapter 4. If another melee class comes out, I don't think we'll be seeing many dervishes or assassins in the next campaign. Carth`
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kais Unduli
and in Nightfall we have 2 melee classes
1 melee 1 ranged
![]() frojack
I don't know what's happening but it seems Rit's are everywhere I look now
![]() NR was running 4 (yes 4!) rit's. They were using Glaive, giving it to their Frenzied axe warrior to spike. Very interesting to watch. MfG played an interesting game with Weapon of Remedy. A good one if you ask me. Anyways it seems Rit's aren't as dead as people seem to think. Make sure you check out the match. |