EVENT/New chapter: A huge war. Can't think of a better way to describe it.

Basic Overview

There's a huge war, like we all imagine the searing to be, but instead of it consisting of a few cutscenes and a mission or two, we have a huge zone that acts like a town (with multiple individual people in it). This would obviously be a much larger event than Halloween or Wintersday.

Title

There would be a title for participation. There would be a number of ranks (like you would have in a real army) and each rank you progress would increase your standing in the army and unlock a (or multiple) rank-specific skill(s) for use on your character.

Title levels will not be easy to achieve.

Examples:
Recruit Skill - Dying Blow: If you die while under the effects of this enchantment, you perform a Dying blow, hitting for 20 extra damage.
Soldier Skill - Adrenaline Rush: Your next 10 attacks hit for 10 extra damage.
Knight Skill (caster primaries would be Knight-Mage) - Cunning Strike: You perform a critical attack OR Your next spell deals 35 extra damage.
Officer Skill (Shout) - "Raiding Party": Summons 5 NPC militia of your level to fight by your side.
Commander Skills (Shouts):
"Archers Reload!" All rangers in earshot have their marksmanship-linked skills recharged.
"Arrows Incoming!" All shield-wearing characters in earshot have a 75% chance to block arrows for 15 seconds while not attacking, however receive 75% more damage from melee attacks.
"Mages Forward!" All characters in earshot deal 65% more damage with their next spell (duration 10 seconds).
"Charge Them!" All Warriors in earshot move 20% faster and deal 35 more damage with their next attack (duration 10 seconds).
General Skills
Aura of Courage: While you maintain this enchantment, all characters within ~double aggro circle radius~ deal 15 more damage with attacks or spells.
Aura of Fortitude: While you maintain this enchantment, all characters within ~double aggro circle radius~ take 10 less damage from attacks.
Aura of Regeneration: While you maintain this enchantment, all characters within ~double aggro circle radius~ have 4 health regeneration while attacking.
Aura of Agility: While you maintain this enchantment, all characters within ~double aggro circle radius~ move 25% faster and have a 25% chance to dodge attacks.

Enemies:

War enemies won't be your run of the mill enemies, they will spawn fast, come quickly and be of a high level (average level 25, with some being at approx. 30 and others being around 18).

A good percentage (20%ish) will be bosses.

Post-War Possibilities:

The war will have an effect on the game world.

If we succeed in defeating the enemy, we will take posession of their country and settlers from ascalon (or some other random place) will take up residence and there will be a "New Ascalon" or "New Other Place".

If we fail, we will feel the effects of habitation by invaders and two new questlines will open up. An "elite" one and a "casual" one. Players will have the opportunity to join one (or neither) of those.

The "elite" questline will involve being a major part of a "rebellion" and will involve various difficult quests in different areas.

The "casual" questline will involve "goals" that people have to complete for the "rebellion". They will not be timed. For example: To provide armor for the rebellion's armor, you are required to collect materials from the ruins of Orr/Old Ascalon for our armorers to issue armor for our fighters.

This is far from polished/complete, but anyone else have any C+C/additions?

I'd prefer actualy "Guild Wars" in the game. And not as in GvG. More as in, massive Guild wars like in the manual of prophecies.

Problem is, I'm proposing a PvE war, not a PvP one. Also, the ones in the manual happened many years ago. The game is named for a time in history.

then i propose a SECOND round of guild wars breaks out, lets let tyria/cantha/and elona duke it out with each other

Then I propose that you make your own thread and quit hijacking mine. This is a discussion about a PvE war, not a PvP or Guild War.

Will it help if I say "please"?

1stly, I think that the OP's idea is brilliant, not sure about all the Rank-specific skills, should probably be limited to only using one of them at time (ie. no more than one rank-specific skill on your skill bar). The actual war could be implement as a massive, almost AB-like battlefield, and the war could last for a long amount of time (if not an on going war), but unlike AB, it would not be players-vs.-players, it would be players (in 10 teams of 10??) vs. NPC's (as mentioned, higher leveled and with bosses) and none of that rez. every 20 secs stuff. The battles within the grand-scale war would not take place anytime (like AB's - when there are enough people on both sides), but would have set times (ie. once a day at 19:00 GMT on the Euro servers). Well, that's just my 2 cents, but really, if implemented by ANet, it would breathe new life into PVE. Here's hoping they don't dismiss this idea!

_

That's pretty much what I was thinking, your idea about only one rank-specific skill on the bar at a time was something I forgot to add. Perhaps there could be a moving line on the main map (like with AB) which shows the territory the enemy holds and the territory that we hold.

Only main difference is the war would be constant, maybe with pauses sometimes where the enemy "regroups". It would have to be at a different time each day though, so that people in different time zones aren't disadvantaged.

Great ideas...but... how is this war going to end? Or is it going to end at all? If there is a final objective to end the war (like capturing their capital city), pve war against mobs will end very quickly when players outsmart npc's predictable AI. If there's no way to end this war, people will eventually feel weary and pointless in playing. Maybe give players a choice to pick sides?? Btw I don't see a conflict between pvp and pve when it comes to a global war, since players can be given choices to fight either humans or npc mobs, as long as they all contribute to the war effort.

perhaps we could give the war enemies the ability to multi-class unlike other mobs and give them 8 skills like players have instead of 5 like most mobs and hench. Give them all rez signets. Make all mobs lvl 20, with bosses at lvl 24. This way it would still be challenging but not overwhelming. Having everything at lvl 28+ will steamroll the majority of players (myself included).

Did you read my title skills? A lot of them would be really overpowered if used against standard levelled mobs. Also remember we'd have extememly large party sizes for this event. Perhaps multiple parties of 10 in each instance.

As far as your thoughts Hell Marauder, for the duration of the event, anet could monitor the fan forums and in-game chat to see "cookie cutter" builds being made and subtly release counters to those builds, forcing us to change our strategies dynamically.

I'm not sure how the PvP thing would work though, because people would be fighting against their own people. Remember, we're fighting an invading force.

Anyway, I want ideas from you guys too.

I had an idea very similar to this before. A giant war would be fun.

2 to 4 teams of 8 battling mobs of creatures?

Kind of alright, until you got to the part of everything just being warrior skills. Like my mesmer is going to be attacking often enough or care enough to use those. pfft.

Necros would DOMINATE...

MMs, SS, Blood AoE... *drool*

They were examples, that means that they aren't exact but an indication of the style of skills that will be involved. Just because I chose the warrior class for my example doesn't mean there won't be skills for other classes.

I was actually talking about a PvE war. And it's pretty odd the game is named after some event in history, without it coming back.

I'm predicting the guild wars to return.

Only problem with the "Guild Wars" returning, is that that would require some radicle changes within the PVE world (like the Krytans wouldn't harbour the Ascalon refugees anymore), not to mention Orr is no longer a nation. Those changes would be very hard to implement without messing with the current Prophecies Storyline. btw, i'm referring to the Guild Wars between Ascalon, Kryta and Orr that started in 1013 AE and ended in 1070 AE. unless it was a massive war between rival nations on another continent, that would work (although it does sound very Kurzick vs. Luxon.. )

_

Uh...so just have ANet make warhammer online?

Your pve-only suggestion makes things terrible, btw. So it's guild wars, with massive battles, only it's pve only so you kill npcs? sounds pretty lame to me.

The idea sounds exciting, though I'm not sure what aspect of war you are talking about. Would the armies meet on the battleground with a show of force and fight then like they did in the medieval/colonial times? Would this war involve special tactics like scouting (possibly for rangers), siege tactics (say, for the siege of the Great Northern Wall or Kryta) and weaponry (catapults, trebuchets, siege towers, moats, battering rams), assassination missions (as in those killed who rank higher would cripple the army in some way), diplomacy (ceasefires, truces...not permanent as it would essentially kill the war and bloodlust aspect that ppl would tend to get during this...particularily minion masters and andrenaline junkies),

We experienced some aspect of a pve war in the SHiverpeaks between the Deldrimor dwarves and the Stone summit, though not on a larger scale player/mob size wise.

If this is a timed event, then what determines who's side wins? With PVP there is always a human winner. If there is a pve war humans must have the possibility of losing the war with consequences severe enough to motivate them to fight earnestly for it; if they are destined to win it might be hard to determine how the war concludes. If it's on a global scale with tons of players fighting in the war and the war ends for all of them not all of them will be able to fight at the same time always as there is the RL aspect too. Some might start the war and be able to contribute maybe a few hours a week, while others would play much more (say up to 24 hours a week, this is a ballpark shot in the dark guess) and get much more out of it because they are doing more....if that makes any sense.

Would time-of-day be an issue? Attacking an army at break of dawn when there is little light can be more effective than in broad daylight.

I dunno...the mechanics of it could get really complicated but I do like the idea.

One suggestion I've had in the back of my mind for a pve war would be one where the Kingdoms of the provinces: Tyria (if they haven't united under one flag yet, maybe an alliance could tentatively form between the Shining Blade of the Maguuma, Krytan/Orrian Royal Guard, Dwarven Army, and Ascalon Vanguard, which was reformed after yours was essentially destroyed and you and your party never returned), Cantha (The Imperial Army in alliance with the Kurzicks and Luxons as before), and Elonian Army (United under one banner again), have decided to once and for all eliminate the human players as they now somehow see them as a threat and turn their armies against them. Thus, when the war begins (possibly with a declaration of war), humans (or at least those who signed up before the war began, as those who didn't sign up would probably have the normal map) would be exiled from all the towns they had on their map and immediately find themselves in one of the explorable areas. THey'd have to capture a permanent outpost for themselves, which is nearby that would serve as their base of operations. Those participating in the war would be able to have contact with guildies and friends not participating in the war through chat, but not be able to trade or enter missions with them since they are in a war.

How it would end I'm not sure, but that's just my rant.

i dunno....it'd be cool to have something along those lines. In order to capture towns we'd have to mount a siege against them. If it's an outpost (like piken square), we'd eliminate the guards for it. If we were situated all over the map we'd maybe have to communicate through sending a messenger between camps (or light beacons); obviously for this to work mobs have to become avoidable occasionally.

There're a lot of aspects to war that would make a pve war exciting. How many they could implement is another question.

www.warhammeronline.com. Wait another 9 months or so and you get your game.

Only difference really, between your ideas and theirs is that they don't cater to the pve community exclusively. And what's the point of having a war if you're just killing bots?

have one, go and do Dajkah Inlet challenge mission

This idea sounds cool but the overall game of Prophecies will be changed around un order to accomidate it, which isnt worth it, prophecies is fine the way it is

No this could never work .It's completely different than the guild wars game and build itself so maybe in another game but not this one .

Besides, what was trhe point of posting this anyway ?I mean come on development has been going on for this game for months and so if ch4 isnt already based on this, they're definitely not going to start from scratch according to what one player thinks is cool .

Yeah, thanks. If you aren't going to contribute, please bugger off.
XOMG Y POXT NU IDEAZ?!? TEHY HAV DEIR PLANZ TAHAT DAY WOJNT CHANGE, OMG NUUUU!!!

As with Thom Bangalter, if you're just here to troll or flame, bugger off. If you want to be constructive, please go ahead.

Finally! A valid criticism/concern! I was just using the Prophecies setting as an example, because I suck at creativity. They could probably come up with something where a "royal summons" from some country arrives at Lions Arch, Kamadan and Kaineng calling us to the defense of x kingdom.

Another Powerful Lich Lord casts a curse on the lands of Elona/Tyria/Cantha..they start to blame each other..war breaks out...u have to choose a side,u help that side in pve..in pvp the war gets funner...enter into a Huge PK Area,u kill players from the other side,u cant kill u own side,if u die u get res,for each kill u earn pts for u side,every 3 hours the side with most pts get favour and players on the favoured side gets a blessing.

Little girl is kidnapped and raised by the Charr army during Searing, being taught the way of the flame. 20 years later, little girl returns as young woman to fight along side the Charr army that the Ascalonians forgot about after defeating the titans.

May i salivate with you?


On Topic

What kind of scale are we talking about?

100+ enemies at a time?
50+ players at a time?

Because then we cant even talk about talking about the lag.

RE: Lag, why not? We have hundreds of players in LA District 1 at a time without too much lag (albeit with reduced texture quality). Also, the servers are constanly calculating thousands of enemies beating up on thousands of players in different zones. That was the kind of scale I was thinking.

Well then what do you mean? im confused now, is this supposed to be an event similar to a holiday thing or a new campaign suggestion. I think this would work good as a new sub-map to be added to tyria(in my opinion ), similar to Realm of Torment or Domain of Anguish. It would liven up prophecies again.

This is from another topic, but this is the way the game is played. Why not kill even MORE mobs?

because it gets BORING

I mean:

Replace every instance of "Ascalon" "Tyria" and so on and so forth in my original post with "Xulgquar" and "Fadjlit", then you'll have my idea with sucky names.

You're thinking contradictory things it seems, "don't add it to prophecies, Tyria is fine as it is" then "this would work good as a new sub-map to be added to tyria(in my opinion )".

/nitpick

Uh... Ok. Take a break and then go back and kill mobs.

Making it an add-on is not contradictory. Adding it as a map similar to Realm of Torment or Domain of Anguish will NOT change the prophecies overall mechanics.

And we have been trying to take a break form killing all the mobs and making an attempt to trying it again, but there is only so many times you can kill the same mob over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again before it just gets boring and nauseating.

The best way to implement this would be to have it be an expansion or even a new campaign in and of itself. It would be awesome if the battle WAS the town, like what they did for the rift thingy in the dragon festival. Imagine a GIANT THK map with 1000+ people on the inside, and thousands of NPCs attacking... depending on which side won a round, that side would recieve benifits, for instance, if the npcs won, wed have our catapults destroyed foir the next wave, but if we won, we would gain some npcs to replace our fallen. If you are killed, your teleported back to the inside of the town that they cant get into, and then when you hit enter mission you go back..best example would be like that one city in kryta with the undead swarming the walls...that could be the outpost, and then another version of it, exactly the same, but under siege...hmm...

IM LIKING THIS!!

I've always wanted bigger battles. Kinda like dzagonur bastion mission. Only on a bigger scale. But I'm worried about lag too. Larger party size and mass mobs? Cool, but not if its lagged like crazy. And I doubt the game would run a decent framerate with 1000s. Towns couldn't even handle all the ghost in the boxes awhile back. Maybe 100s of npcs and less then 100 real people at most. Maybe 48 real people max actually.

Guess who completely forgot about the D'alessio outpost! There's a proof of concept right there, let the players use skills inside said outpost as opposed to only letting NPCs use them. I like your catapult and reinforcement idea too btw.

Where I was talking thousands, I meant the thousands of players in different instances that the game has to compute, not thousands in the one zone, I agree, the lag would be terrible! I like your figures that you have come up with.

Im not technical, but i'd still say lag would become an issue.

Lag would indeed become an issue, but other than technical issues, there are much more problems surrounding the mindset for this implementation to be successful. Below are my personal though and opinion in regards to the issue:

1) The Defination of the term "Guildwars" is loosely defined in the game. According to the cinematic in the original Game, the description of Devona's fathers death/sacriface in the last Guildwars seems to suggest some sort of large scale struggle. While the Lore seems also to suggest in its history that guilds have a large role to play in the involvement of Politics of the realm. But guilds in reality have no actual impact in the PvE and cash prizes aside, PvP have no real significant impact other than favor for UW/FOW from HoH.

While the word Guildwars often conjures up imagination of widespread conflict of powerful groups against others for gains of either fame or power, we however understand Guildswars as GvG which acts out as sort of a Tournament of 8 individuals against another group of 8 individuals in a balanced location, earning points on a ladder which get reset/locked and i wonder how many actually care about or look at.

2) The closest invovlement of Guilds in playing a significant role in the landscape and political climate of the game came with Alliances through Factions (GWF). The idea seem perfect in conception: guilds forming up to a greater purpose to support a political faction in order to change the political landscape while securing landmarks(towns) as rewards to the most outstanding guilds/Alliance who have won the most glory in battle. But the porblem end with the idea and started with the implementation.

Town control was determined by amount of points the Alliance can garther to "Acquire an Estate" rather than "Fighting for it through brute force" ie Siege. The disillusioned idea of merging the PvE and PvP population resulted in "Faction Points farming" in Alliance battles (12v12) or the "PvE equal" from repeatable quests which were both a blessing and nightmare. Blessing for those who dont want to PvP in ABs to get 1.5 or 15k armours, nightmare for those who dont PvP and forced to contribute a daily quota of 10K factions to the alliance to stay in the guild/alliance. As for the rewards of gaining an "estate on a limited lease" comes basically cheaper keys to contribute towards titles and reprofiting from chest runs. Elite missions in factions.......make your own conclusions.

Factions really had a good idea to work both in terms of concept with the potential to greatly expand on the lore in PvE, yet instead it became grind feast for some, leaving others disgrunted in the sub par PvE of the game. To me Lineage 2 Castle seiges is hard to beat as games goes, of course i will be looking at Warhammer online.But since EA bought over Mystic, i have since lost faith in that game...anyways i digress.

3)Games with large scale combat elements often excel with games such as warcraft and the total war series where strategy and tactics, unit type placement, mobility and specific weakness and strengths of different untits are placed into consideration in the game play. RPGs however focuses on character development and story telling hence such elements of play and consideration are harder to include in a RPG setting. However many good RPGs does the trick by creating an illusion of the characters involvement in a large scale battle while still maintaining focus on the characters and not bog the player down with too much specifics other than the usual questing to improve the player's odds/chances of victory in the war for example.

Dzagonur Bastion is a good example of miniture siege combat mission where the players get to decide unit placement and defend objectives. However it's unimpressiveness lies in the limitations of existing game mechanics which is the crux of this problem/issue of large scale battles.

Before we asked the game to be changed in a certain way, we must take certain points/elements into consideration by asking some simple questions.

How will these changes/addition affect:

a)PvE exclusive players
b)PvP exclusive Players
c)Hardcore and Veterans players
d)Casual and New to game Players
e)The current game limitations:quest and mission(grp of 4,6,8 & 12),AB(12v12),HA(6v6),GvG(8v8),RA(4v4) etc.
f)Time investment for the proposed area/quest/mission(hrs): quest(5-10m),mission(10-40m), tombs(45m), Deep(1.5h), DoA(2-5h)...etc
g)Popularity and economy of time in both design and implementation.
h)advancing instancing technology to accomodate required bandwidth


Hence as such with these considerations in mind, unless the above limitations are addressed, i dont forsee this suggestion becomming a feature anytime soon unless a change in direction and mindset is undertaken in the game design and targeted audience for GW in the future. However i would gladly welcome Anet to prove me and other naysayers wrong to make it a more interesting and fun game for everyone. Cheers.