"Battle of Turai's Procession" Perfect example of overkill to make things hard.

The "Battle of Turai's Procession" is a perfect example of how Anet has sacrificed the joy of playing to make the game harder.

That quest in particular is reduced to nothing more then grindingly dyeing, resssing, picking one off, dyeing, ressing, picking one off.

Its not fun and its not satisfying due to the VERY low reward for completing it.

It can take ages of repeating the same actions and it reduces you to frusatration.

For anyone who doesnt know, you basically have to take on around 4 groups of about 15 margonites.

Each with 3 clerics, lots of warriors, 3 reapers and 3 sears.

Taking out the clerics is hard enough due to spell-breaker.

Your reduced to -60dp long before youve taken out the first group and you dont last more then 30 seconds each time you attempt to make a strike.

As much as I love a challenge. There just isnt any joy in this quest.

The main reason I say that is because of the reward for doing this "master" quest;

4,000 experience.
400 gold and a kournan coin!

You get more experience for doing easier quests in factions.

And no lightbringer points or sunspear points?

Anyone explain how this seems satisfying?

I dont mind Anet making things harder, but they have to increase the rewards to match the effort we put in.

This is just an example of this, and im in now way picking at this quest alone. There are probably countless other "master" quests around NF which dont reward enough to feel satisfying.





[Edit]

I appreciate everyones suggestions on how to defeat this quest. I'll no doubt try them all out and eventually do it.

How ever I wasnt suggesting the quest was impossible, whether it be with a PUG or henching.

Can we try to avoid posting suggestions about the quest and "pictures" of you having completed the quest, because that is moving away from my original post and the point I was making.

To those who said to simple ignore the quest; I cant really do that as I only have about 6 left to do in the whole of NF.

2 of which are collecting stuff,
3 are in DoA and this one.

So ive not alot else to do.

Maybe im just weird, but i'm sure you all know how frustrating it is when youve completed all 3 games but you still have the odd one or two quests still to do on each one?

My OP was trying to make the point that its not fun to do and it pushes you to the point of frustration.

Its not because I have issues with hard quests or mission, but more due to lack of a reward for doing it and the inconsistency between the "master" quests in NF.

Some being hard and some being stupidly easy. So why the "master" bit?

But this quest does actually live up to the "masters" title, which is a good thing. Its a challenge and it requires thinking.

But if you make the assumption that the "master" quests are meant to be the hardest ones in the game and then compare them to Tyria's hardest quests such as the Titan quests, or SF;

The rewards for doing the NF ones arent worth it.

Compare 4k xp in NF to 10k xp in Tryia.

Now I would personally say that 3/4 of the Titan quests are no harder then most "Master" quests in NF, but they are still a challenge.

But if you look at the last Titan Quest, which ive yet to complete, which is frusatrating and VERY hard. Im willing to endure it due to the reward you get of 10,000 xp.

That may make me sound greedy, but I dont see how.

Is it really that bad to expect more then 4k experience from a "master" quest, which by its own name should be a challenge worth rewarding well.

The crunch is that the reward doesnt meet the quest. We need a greater reward for "master" quests otherwise why call them "master" quests, other then the odd one of them being difficult?

I love 99% of the game and all the campaigns. But Anet is having a laugh at our expense by naming things as "master" and then giving us nothing in return.

Rule #1. Everything is easier with a mesmer along.

i remmber the quest from unwaking waters to palace, requires nothing more than mapping XD
3000xp, 1 skill point and some gold

Ok... One question here. If you don't like the reward, and you don't like doing it... Why do it?

Because aside from the two DoA quests, and the two quests to collect items....

....i have NOTHING else to do in the entire world of GWs.

That isn't the point he is making. That goes right up there with the "go play WoW" comments. He means to say that in order to make it harder, Anet just pitted larger numbers, much larger numbers against you. Rather then add tactical skill to the quest, it's just an onslaught instead. It's like saying 10v8 wasn't hard to many people, so they made it 15v8. No real change, just more numbers.

**Note: My numbers are just an example, not pertaining to the quest itself.

I gave up on that quest, I managed to get rid of 5 groups or so, and then it was getting late I took out the last one, another two groups show up.

I don't mind the difficulty or the fact that the rewards are crap, but it beats doing nothing. There must be 50 of those margonites, and the're the strong types too.

Meh. There are going to be some quests in the game like that. If they could make unique and interesting quests in the timespan that they have, then I'm sure they would. Making the quest easier? Whats that going to solve apart from getting you another 4000 exp and striking another thing off the OP's to do list?

The worst thing about that bloody quest is the Margonites converge rather quickly into one insanely huge mob with 6 Clerics, in the first wave!

And the Centaurs are really only there for eye candy before the first wave hits, because they are all gone after the first party wipe!

No, I really don't enjoy that quest either. It's also uncompleted.

I would like to start off by saying the Experience Rewards in NightFall and of Factions are two completely different matters since each is an individual chapter so comparing the two would be thrown out the window right there (I would consider Prophecies to have more in common quest reward experience wise)

This quest as you can see in the Bright Red Color is a MASTER level quest which implies that it should be rather difficult for the area and for the level that your characters/heroes should be in that area (which is level 20). People were complaining how easy Player versus Environment was so AN madea step in the direction to giving some challenge into that portion of the game (personally I would like the game as a whole excluding a few specific area to be made A LOT harder than it is now).

If you really think it is too hard all I can Suggest is this: www.guildwiki.org .

You have to understand the Cleric Margonite AI isn't too bright in some missions/quests I was able to wipe out two groups each with their own cleric at one time by ignoring them for the most part why you might ask is that their AI will not cast spell breaker on any other ally besides themselves so you could say nuke'm in the crossfire and I did this all with henchmen and Heroes in my groups.

~Konohamaru

P.S. Just remember any player can be great but, only the truely great learn by watching how the enemy acts.

I got it done with hench. the secret: Devide them!

You need to know the margonites come from three directions in three waves. If you ambush one of three groups wile they are still running towards their gathering point, you can take them out in much smaller chunks. Be creative.Just dont let them team up.

This is one of those quests that has everything to do with shifting-strategy and not a bit to do with a particular skill.

Its tough, its frustrating, but once I realized all I needed to do was run past those centaurs, go to the right and attack the one group converging on you, it was infinitely easier.

I take out that first group to the right by running to it. Of course, all the other groups converge normally on the centaurs, at which point you do indeed have an uphill battle. You can draw some of the mobs towards you, picking them off one by one, but I think the MOST frustrating thing is the mobs will sometimes follow you all the way across the map. THAT is what needs fixed!

I was able to hench/hero the mission (not a boast just a statement that it can be done)...If u need some help let me know IGN Coridan A US servers on most evenings

BTW I think i did the same thing that the above post mentioned...don't "just" target the clerics...if they aren't dying quick pick another squishy target and take it down... Be sure to call your targets so all of your players/henchman/heros are targetting the same mob. Bring 2 elemental heros if u have them load em up with Searing Flames bring your MM and put Tainted Flesh on him leave your group healing up to the hench monks and you shouldn't have any probs.

If you have a friend, one of the mega-defense builds works fine with heros.

Example:
(everyone is /Me with MoF)
Ranger - Winter/Greater
Nuker - Searing Flames
Nuker - Searing Flames
Paragon - They're On Fire! and leadership support w/"Incoming!"
Paragon - Command Support w/"Imcoming!"
Monk - Light of Deliverance is nice
Monk - Maybe a nice Prot monk
Necro/Anything really - I rather like Spiteful here, since they bunch up in a giant ball alot of the times, alittle spec into Death for Well of Profane never hurt either.

Basic premise:
-40% Dmg near 100% of the time
-~35% Dmg from anything your nukers have touched or your Paragon's Chants have effected.
-50% Dmg half the time from rotating Imcoming!s, this used to be full coverage.
Damage comes from the SS, 2 Nukers, and Paragons.

I did this before the big Paragon nerf if I remember right, but it should still be ok.

The "master" description means nothing. There is a quest you do from the same NPC before this one which is considered master and its easy as pie.

You just run around killing a few stationary creatures. Thats the grand sum of its difficulty.

And masters quests in the RoT are easier too.

The rewards simple dont meet the challenge.

And I dunno why your saying comparing the rewards between factions and nightfall are completely different. A quest is a quests and having played all the campaigns, you CAN compared them.

Factions gives far greater rewards for doing far less.

Nightfall gives you the same, for doing harder and more frustrating quests.

What is the point in making "master" quests, if you still get the same amount of experience as most reqular quests?

Theres your comparison.

I didnt say make it easier. I said its just frustrating and the reward isnt worth it.

I think the quest is fine. Its the fact that the 3 mobs which apear in each part just mingle together to make an utterly frustrating oober mob.

There is no tactics to it at all.

Its just throwing 3 huge groups at you and letting them merge. Then bringing on the next lot and then the next.

Its just hack and slash per usual.

And as for crossing things off the OP'ers "to do" list. I have nothing on my "to do" list other then hardest quests from each continent, because ive completed tyria, cantha and elona.

So yeah I do want them done!!! But I want more then 4000xp for going through that headache.

Look at the Titan quests in Tryia and you get 10,000 experience and most of them are easier.

Comparing the two chapters is like comparing Night today. Factions was based on massive rewards for little to no effort which really is just plain silly IMHO (I say make factions a lot harder too ) to level up faster while in NightFall they want you to actually work for your experience to level up and the fact you have 3 additional party members you can control all the way down to their attribute point I think deserves you to have to do more work it is an equal trade off.

I hate to tell you this but almost every rpg are hack and slash to an extent like WoW, Guild Wars, Diablo II, EverQuest and the list can go on and on and on. If you are having so much trouble change your party style change a hero or two your party variety plays a big role in what you can and can't do.

By changing one party member it changes the tilt of can and cant do. If you are so unhappy about the rewards just do not play it simple as that.

So far you are the only person I have seen to post on complaining about the rewards how would you feel if the reward was dropped to 1000 experience like like the average quest reward was in Prophecies. People like you are really too greedy when it comes to rewards and I blame Factions for this since it made people want to be lazy.

You get unlimited respawns. Therefore, it's easy. Just requires deterrence.

"The Troubled Keeper," however, is more worthy of Master Status.

Instead of frustrating I found this quest to be a total blast. The first time I did it with just with henchies and heroes. No wipes. No DP. Not sure I even lost a henchie or hero but could have without noticing. I was running my necro with curses with a MM, (probably) Koss, and Dunkoro heroes. All 20th level of course. Don't remember the other henchies, but probably the usual Mhenlo, dervish, paragon, and (probably) Devona. Non-stop casting and attacking made for an exhilarating little battle, imo. As with most everywhere else in Elona, minions help a LOT.

I will say that I had already gone on into the campaign a bit prior to discovering this quest, so I had LB rank at least 2 and was using LBG so I'm sure that helped a lot.

I did it again with a guildie friend and his dervish and it was not as easy as the first time even though that made two of us with LBG. IIRC, I did die once or even a couple of times on that round, but we never came close to wiping, so I wouldn't exactly call it a hard quest.

Larger numbers forces the use of different tactics. To say that going from 10v8 to 15v8 is "no real change" misses the fact that the 10v8 can be beaten with any number of strategies, including simple brute force, whereas the 15v8 is likely to require a bit more thinking. Beating overwhelming numbers of stronger enemies is difficult exactly because it can't be done through 'normal' means.

Case in point: The Battle of Turai's Procession is actually easy and straightforward with a change in tactics.

Dieing and being at a constant -60dp is a challenge, i would embrace challenge and make better builds that counter skills of the AI, pretty simple and compoicated atnthe same time

I did the quest. I think it's actually closer to 15 groups of 4 or 6 margonites each. (Realize that the monk AI from other groups will still try to heal non-party member allies if they're hurt and within his range.) The ones you can't pick off in small groups as they rush in do bunch up and make it real hard to avoid aggroing only one group, but they do continue to behave as separate groups if you can manage to separate them. *psst ... longbows with the henchies flagged off behind you*

I had a similiar experience when trying it. Whole hench team and myself at 60 dp. But I thought it was fun! We did eventually kill them off, one by one. (So glad you can't get more than 60dp)

Totally /signed on that one! I want some LB points for that, and there are no margonite blessings anywhere in that zone IIRC.

Can't speak to ANet's reasoning, but quests where you defend against waves are not new to GW in NF. Remember Undead Hordes outside Beetletun? When you don't know what to expect first time through the story (and you're not a team of lv 20's chock full of elites coming back to clean up quests later,) that can be wickedly hard the first time. And everyone I play with on a regular basis also finds that quest wickedly fun!


So, please don't change this one ANet! Some of us like it!
Luny

You failed. I'll repeat myself. YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED! YOU FAILED!

Ok... take a deep breath, let the pain and frustration leave you. Seriously, take a deep breath right now. Relax, you're getting yourself too worked up over failing a quest. It's not worthy of stress. Once you're relaxed try again... or don't.

There are 2 types of people in this world. Those that are afraid of failure and those that aren't.

I bet you never PvP because you can't handle losing. And if you occasionally do, I bet you rage quit after your first loss. It doesn't make you a bad person, and no one hates you for it. Although you should really get over your fear of losing for your own sake of happiness.

You get no sympathy from me. That quest is possible with no difficulty if you plan.

Lack of tactic and your refusal/inability to come with one are 2 different things.

Well, said you have to asses the situation and decide which action would work the best if you fail once try a different tactic. Larger numbers tend are intended to make you think most of the time.

So I cant compare factions to nightfall in terms of rewards, but you can compare prophercies to nightfall?

That really makes sense.

Prophercies doesnt have loads of quests which just throw mob after mob at you like Nightfall and factions.

Thats why you dont get huge rewards for them. You dont feel like you need them. You dont feel let down for spending an hour trying to do it to only be given 1k reward.

Tyria does how-ever still have the titan quests and SF which gives away 10k for completing.

Yet alot of these are easier then some masters quests in nightfall. So by that comparison, we should be getting more in nightfall.

As for the comment saying im greedy!

Thats was just un-needed. Just because I feel that a "masters" quest should have more reward compared to "reqular" quests doesnt mean im greedy.

It makes sense to me.

Why call something a "master" quest and suggest thats its harder then most, then give such a low reward? or a reward which is no higher then regular ones.

Good MMs FTW? I donno, I honestly didn't have an issue with this quest... I got it done on the first try with no wipes using henchies+heros. *shrug* I had a barrage ranger, SF ele, and MM for heros, and I was a mes...

Sagistic words right there and all you want to do is flame him for giving you advice on how to pass this quest, really..
It's almost a redundant point trying to help some ppl Konohamaru I just hope others follow this advice then turn around to this guy and say, "WTF you on the answer was right in front of you and you basically choose to ignore it."
I mean, c'mon man you want to pass this quest or what? Stop with the flaming and start playing.

The quest wasn't that difficult, although I would agree that the quest rewards in general reflect neither the effort nor difficulty required... they all tend to be the same basic reward regardless of what you have to do.

I gave up on that quest after the first try! I did not care, really, it is not a part of the story you must complete to go on with the game.

I play for pleasure and stress relieve ...... I do not need to be aggarvate by some not necessary quest!

Is that aimed at me?

I willing to accept advice, but when someone starts saying im a typical greedy player who just wants huge amounts of xp, im hardly going to accept that.

I havent resorted to flaming anyone. Ive just expressed my opinion. If ive spoken out to defend myself, then its only when ive needed to.

lol, im no stranger to frustration after getting protector on all 3 campaigns and spending hours staring at maps to get 100% on all 3 :P

But that was satisfying to achieve. It felt like I had gained something.

But to only get 4k experience for a supposedly "master" quest, whether it be hard or not, isnt satisfying and it doesnt feel worth while.

I would stick at it if I felt Id be achieving something. Whether it be lightbringer points or more xp, or even an item or weapon.

then don't do it

I had no trouble with this on my Warrior. I just killed stuff until they stopped coming. No deaths in the party. Dunno what you're doing wrong.

there's a pretty easy way to complete this, I'm not sure if it would be termed a 'trick', or just a smarter way of taking on the mobs, but it's not simply standing in the middle and letting yourself get overwhelmed. I'm not going to put the tactic right here unless I'm specifically asked to, but wiki has the method
2 ppl with 3 heroes each can do this in 15-20 min with maybe one or two heroe deaths, running decent (read: doesnt have to be cookie cutter) builds

It can be HeroHenched even though we did it last as a guild group.

No one said you had to fight at the location of the where Margos garther. Just pull back to the other side of the hill and pull groups (they will filter out into smaller groups even though the whole group comes at you at first.) and its just a pull kill routine until all of the groups are killed.

In case of human/PUG groups, a good tank and nuker does help alot, so does LBG.

if this were a primary quest, then I would feel bad for you and would support you, but it isn't it is optional, you don't like the difficulty don't try, these quests are here for people who WANT to do them, noone is holding a gun to your head. I do agree it would be nice if the rewards were better, but eh it isn't imperative..

image compressed to 800x600.

this quest is hero/henchable.

there's a pretty easy way to complete this, I'm not sure if it would be termed a 'trick', or just a smarter way of taking on the mobs, but it's not simply standing in the middle and letting yourself get overwhelmed. I'm not going to put the tactic right here unless I'm specifically asked to, but wiki has the method
2 ppl with 3 heroes each can do this in 15-20 min with maybe one or two heroe deaths, running decent (read: doesnt have to be cookie cutter) builds

Myself Necro MM
Olias Necro MM
Master Necro MM
Dunkaro Ritualist Commune and Protection 12/16
2 Monk Henchman
Devona
Paragon Henchman


about 25+ Minions on the field... + Pain Shadowsong and Bloodsong

Overkill... and beatable

Just use brute force ^^.
Get a trapper to trap 3 patches. Lure them in to the traps. Nuke and Searing Flame the Crap out of them. Spam LBgaze (it actually does 100 damage here), and let the wammo's take out the scraps. Repeat for all the mobs. That's how i did it ..
Used:

1 Trapper
2 SF MS Ele
1 MM
2 Wammo's
2 Monks