My last two PuG experiences...

Suffering from a little burnout after running 3 toons through NF, I took the advice that many of you gave to consider joining PuG's for my next toon to break up the monotony. It was a good suggestion in theory. Since I know the missions, I could help the community a little.

My first PuG was Consolate Docks. A lvl 18 Dervish invited me. I was the third member, the other was a freaking lvl 11 Necro. No biggie, this mission is easy. He proceeds to add two more players, a paragon and an ele, both lvl 20's. Not bad. He adds in a lvl 18 Dunk, then starts the mission with six people. Everyone is screaming wait, add heroes, add hench whatever. I have no idea what he was thinking. I left that group and henched it.

At the Crossroads, I decided I'd try again. This time I built my own group. We had a strong team zoned in and started moving. One of the guys didn't move. We waited and waited. We asked what was up. A couple of minutes later he types, "Go ahead I'll catch up, but I need to eat real quick."

WTF? He just joined 2 minutes earlier and he didn't know he had to eat? He wanted a free ride, it was obvious. I resigned and gave up on PuGs for the night.

Unfortunately, this is all too often my experience with groups. It hasn't really changed, and if anything its getting worse. I really don't see the point in even trying. I don't need them to do the missions, and they end up wasting so much of my time.

I just had to vent.

I had the same burnout feeling as you from NF, so now I am playing through Prophecies with pugs. From my experience the pugs over there are much better than the ones in NF. It could be because some of them are just easier, but there seem to be less idiots as well.

It's a shame your experiences were so bad; I won't say every pug I've been in is good (that would just be a bare-faced lie), but I've often grouped with good people in Elona.
I really enjoyed pugging Nightfall with my mesmer after having pretty much hero-henched the whole thing with my warrior.
Sure, I had to stop myself from biting occasionally when some basement Napoleon with no clue about the mission would start bossing everyone around, but overall it was enjoyable.

Although I will say that if you find it hard getting monks, if someone has good hero ones to offer, take them up on it.
Oftentimes you'll find that hero monks are better than PUG ones anyway.
It's quite hilarious to have a monk join a group then immediately demand that all hero monks be removed, otherwise they'll leave; and yes, I see this happen frequently. It's like they're scared that the heroes will show them up or something.
If I'm the leader of such a group, chances are that the monk will get kicked before any heroes
People who are rude and demanding probably aren't going to change their colours once the mission starts. So why bother putting up with them in the first place if you don't have to?

Pugging will on occasion test your patience. But it is still worth it IMO, just to have a break from routine and predictability.

Trying to 6-man Consulate Docks with random under-levelled teammates actually sounds like fun to me. I'd at least have to wake up and have my head in the game.

Yea, PUG's can get on your nerves sometimes, but I guess it depends on how you look at it. As long as you can still laugh about it, even when things don't go right, I think it's still fun. Personally, I feel doing missions with henchies/heroes is a bit monotonous.

Edited by Arkantos: Inappropriate image

Given the choice between a PUG and hero/hench... I don't understand why anyone would choose pugs.

Guild > Both though.

You get good groups and bad groups of PUGs. Bad PUGs are often more frequent.

It could be worse, the last PUG I was in the token afker got a green, came to pick it up immediately then went back to afking.

I agree the bad PickupGroups outnumber the good -- but they are still nice for variety

I hate when 1 person drops, other people start quitting too


least heroes dont AFK or Quit on you

So you're one of those impatient types. It's a good thing you stay out of PuG's. People who bail drive me crazy more than bad leaders.

Depends on my mood, but I could see myself giving it a try just for kicks. Most likely I would've asked everyone to /resign and taken charge of forming the group myself.

If you're an experienced player at all (played the game more than 50 hours?) why would you join an obvious newbie leader's group anyway? Form your own PuG.

Because we purchased an multiplayer online game? :dunno:

I've found the skill level for typical PUGs has really dropped. It seems that most who want/need a PUG now suck so badly they can't do anything without resorting to someone carrying them. These are people that typically say heroes suck, when in reality the only reason for heroes to suck is the person that controlling them does too.

I've noticed this as well - this may be the result of more of the quality players preferring to play with heroes/henchmen than to participate in PuGs. It's starting to be a vicious cycle, unfortunately - hopefully the upcoming party matching system solves some of that and brings some of the quality players back into the fold.

Honestly what do people expect? Play most multiplayer game and you'll find the same thing. The internet isn't filled with l33t ninja players....


The "had to eat" is another issue though, the freeloading one. That excuse is one of the top excuses used by freeloaders. Since there's no votekick or any such mechanism to deal with it, people will abuse it. I read somewhere in a post that basically it's viewed as "unsportsmanlike" but not something to be banned over so meh...

Last night, I felt particularly friendly so I decided to pug the last two missions in Nightfall. The first group made it about 15 minutes in and then then someone appointed himself leader of the universe and started going off on the other teammates. He would give instructions to various people, but didn't specify who he was giving them to. "You go here and you stay back there." um... WHO? LOL Needless to say, the group disbanded quickly after that.

So I went back to the outpost and started spamming again. I tried to start a group, too, but it wasn't happening so I started hooking up the heros. A necro in bright green FoW jumped on with his heros and we kicked everything's ass. He hadn't done the missions before so he listened to my advice and we plowed through the two missions in about an hour. It was a good time.

PuG + Heroes + Luck = FTW

agreed, on nundu bay mission with my ranger, and someone literally said less than 5 minutes in, that their spaghetti was ready and they had to go, but would be back later... not only did he decide to leech, he had 2 heroes with him (monk and ele) leeching with him in a corner.

Actually there is a good reason why player monks dislike grouping with Hero monks. Like you accurately pointed out, a hero monk is going to be quicker on the draw when it comes to casting. No doubt about it as no human has reflexes that fast (although we are better at laying down protection in advance). The quick response time on the AI is the problem. You end up wasting a lot of energy healing the same target or worse wasting hex/condition removal as the AI beats you to it by a fraction of a second. The other problem is the build the hero is using may overlap in unproductive ways with your own or just be a poor build in general (if I see one more smite/heal hero monk I just might cry).

Generally its good practice to know what skills the other monk is bringing whether it be human or hero. If partnering with a hero monk, don't try to perform the same tasks (both heal monks for example) as this will only lead to frustration since you can't really coordinate properly with a hero.

That being said, at the same time it can be good-I find the hero monks are good at protecting, so I like it when the AI monks are protecting. Alternatively, they can take the hex and condition removers and I'll take another healing spell. Generally it's not the 'zomg ai monk!' thing it's just people don't communicate the skills the heros have to avoid overlap.

I had both good and bad experiences in PUGs. Just did the Grand Court of Sebelkeh mission with one and it was good, except for the monk who was a little slack with the healing. However, I've done groups in Factions and Proph that were horrible. AFKers, skill cappers, Leeroys, even had a guy on a UW run zone as soon as he got an ecto. Just part of the game, i guess...

I've been pugging the early missions of nightfall after I got my mesmer through with friends. There are bad pugs and good pugs. In mine at consulate docks the leader had added a dervish henchie while someone else in the group had lvl 20 heros, we asked him to kick the henchie dervish so a hero could be added, waited, waited, "I can't kick him :/", bless him, he didn't know how to kick someone.

We proceeded with the mission though, not a hard one, no real need for the heros, and got through ok (with bonus) even though at each bonus group the party would split up with two people ignoring the bonusgroup/pinging by us everytime. I would just say "Your healer is back here keeping this group alive, come here for healing", by the 3rd bonus group the entire group had caught on.

Keeping your cool, not raging against others really helps in pugs. I could've waited, stop with healing until they listened to me, but that is not my style.

P.S.
The dervish reminded me of myself when I was new, I had removed the trade button from the UI because I wasn't trading anyway. Then 2 months later I want to buy a fiery sword upgrade from a guildie.... took us 30 mins to find out why I couldn't trade

I've had good and bad experiences in PUGs as well, and will normally give people the benefit of the doubt (mostly because after 8 - 10 hours at work I really don't want to micromanage heroes/henchies, I just want to get in and kill something) once. If they (the other PUG members) fail to have the least bit of a clue, it's heroway ftw.

Last PUG I tried was going for the Sebelkeh mission - they died within 30 seconds the first time because no-one would listen to me when I told them they needed to defend the altar lol. I did give them the benefit of the doubt the second time, and to be fair they lasted maybe a minute longer. I gave up at that point

my last 2 pug experiences:
-started in the ruins of morah. killed varesh with ease, then did the next mission (shadow of fear? 1st real mission in RoT). fun and nice persons.
-consulate docks. lots of deaths and DP, but we still made it. I don't know how, but it was worth a /cheer. enjoyed it, even though our group sucked.

My last two pug experiences were both immensely rewarding - last time was taking Krysten back to do Jokanur Diggings and grouping with some low level people. That was rewarding because of the glowing feeling you get when you know you've genuinely helped someone out. The time before that was Grand Court of Sebelkeh with Rena. After failing more than 15 times with a hench/hero group, (To put it simply, they just couldn't do enough damage fast enough,) the PuG I went with got masters on the second try. MM and SS ftw.

But I've had my bad experiences too. One that I'll always remember, is the occasion that I had gone back to do the mission that gets you to Denravi with Krysten. The group had a universal lack of understanding of the very basic mechanic of needing a healer and it took much protest from myself to convince them that a Lvl12 W/Mo with 20 energy and mending would not be A Good Idea (tm) for taking care of the healing. We got through the mission just fine, without a single death, even though only 2 or 3 of us actually knew what we were doing and the group leader had elected to go without a proper healer. So, yeah that was frustrating, but since it ended in success, rewarding, too.

I dont group much with PuG teams though. Never have done. To me, the prevalence of 'You Must Be Exactly What We Order You To Be' groups really puts me off. It's either them or people who don't have a clue. The middle ground - the decent PuG isn't as uncommon as some people suggest, but that, by no means, is suggesting that they are easy to find. For me, Guild/Alliance+Heroes is the way to go.

I helped a guildie (Ranger) get through Iron Mines. Well, I was actually helping myself get through it as well. I was playing my Canthan monk that I hadn't actually gotten through that mission. We were joined by another guildie (MM) and then we grabbed a pug for the rest of it. We managed to get a monk that was good, although mostly prot. Then we got another ranger that seemed to think it was a good idea to run off and try to trap some mobs with Dust Trap. The other 3 were Tanks...by all that's holy some of them were prize idiots. One of them was running with a sword using nothing but Power Attack...I think he spammed his skill bar earlier and it was axe skills. The other two were hammer tanks, one of which was using charge as his elite.

I wasn't too interested in the bonus, but some of them wanted it, so we decided to do it...which was a real damned shame cause I had another guildie online that can run it, but hates the bonus with a fiery passion. So we slogged our way through the mission, randomly doubling back to cap Dwarven Battle Stance of all things, evntually losing one hammer tank. Then we get to the bonus split, but most of us needed to get infused. We tried to explain this to the other hammer tank, but he just got pissed off and left. So then we continue on slogging, get infused and finally manage to get the bonus by having both of the monks body block the Inquisitor cause we'd lost two of the tanks.

So, then we move up to finish the mission. We get to one of the bridges before the end and then the party just Charlie-Foxtrots. My guildies go down, then goes the 2nd monk. The Ranger is running off doing god-knows-what, I run for it and then the tank finally catches up. I heal his ass, and then he starts chasing around a Mursaat Monk. The ranger finally pulls his head out of his ass and comes help as well. So we've got the tank futile poking the Mursaat Monk with an FDS and power attack, the ranger doing, I can't remember what, and two White-Mantle Seekers pincushioning whatever they feel like and me trying to keep the lot of us from wiping.

Eventually the tank pins the Monk in place and beats him down, then we take the Seekers, but that aggros a Mursaat Necro. So while this is happening someone decides to run off and start resing dead people with ressurrect, so in addition to having to heal the party, I've got to keep these new people from getting chopped back down again...we somehow managed to get through this then worked our way up to Markis. Then the ranger bailed, he said something about looking for an elite, I guess it wasn't Barrage.

Still we had my guildies (ranger and mm), the tank and two monks and that was enough to finish the mission off. Still it was a harrowing & frustrating experience. Good thing I have short hair, otherwise I would have been tearing it out by the handfuls.

It wasn't all bad last night though. Before this happened though I took my Mesmer through Gate of Madness. This was a total pug, although it was well built. We had a dervish (party leader, Balt form), and a tank, so a solide front line. Backed up by a paragon and a ranger so decent support, sv necro, and myself, so good casters and two human monks (took a long, long time to find them though, but it was well worth it). I was playing solid interrupt build and only died once near the beginning when a roving mob pincered the group. After that we pulled the little trick of dodging the Shiro'ken, although another roving patrol ran into us, and then took out the Rifts. That went a little tricky, but we eventually cleared it. Then the ranger pulled Shiro and we went to work on him. Unfortunately I couldn't do much to him, other than wand him and fast cast res when someone dropped. Then we went down and kiting around, activated all the shrines, then took out the Lich for Masters...then just for fun we took out Abaddon, although that took 22 minutes. Wasn't the best group, but is was a hell of alot better then the pug I had later for Iron Mines.

If your looking for entertainment pugs are great, if you want loyal followers
who will obey your every command go H & H (heroe's & henchies).
At least it seems like the missions in NF are more doable with H & H than
factions was, thanks for that, and since nost of them are not timed you
can take your time and do things anyway you want.

Seems the only mission you will really have a hard time getting masters
on with H & H is the Moddok Crevice mission where you need to stop two
runners at once.

I have been pugging since 1999. People have not changed at all. There will always be good ones and bad ones. Adapt or perish.

When playing a monk, I like to have hero monks with me. Dunkoro is quicker at reacting than I am, and Tahlkora can use her mana to maintain enchantments so I don't have to use mine. What they can't do is anticipate, which is where the human comes in, for instance casting Healing Breeze on the one about to go lure the next batch of mobs. Usually I prefer to use my own hero monks, because as a monk I've captured elite skills which they use, and because I can direct them manually if necessary, for instance when doing a resurrection in a difficult spot.

As a contrast, I thought I'd share my last three experiences with PUGs.

Moddok Crevice. Wasn't planning on doing this mission, just yet even if it was the next one in the story line for my monk, just popped into the mission town to do the merchant thing etc.
Well there was two groups looking for monks as I went AFK to visit the little girls' room and put the kettle on. When I returned they were still there, although they seemed to have given up on fiding any monks. Instead they were actually chatting - about the lack of monks - but still seeing people using the local chat to well talk to each other made me so cheerful and filled with goodwill towards human kind that I decided to do a PUG for this mission.
And I would do it right now! Even if I'd not so much as had a peek on wiki to read up on what was to be expected in this mission. Took about 5 seconds to find a group, and after a couple mins of team chat saying hello to everyone and discussing the mission we were off.
This PUG was the PUG dreams are made off, a team leader that :gasp: lead the team! And a team that followed, doing exactly what was asked of them. We're talking about things like those runners, stopping just before getting to them, working out who goes for which runner to cripple them and even counting down to make sure they coordinate the attacks.
In a PUG!
Guild groups aren't even that coordinated and organised most of the time. (Well at least not the ones from my guild, but we do have fun and that counts for something.)

Next one, Grand Court of Sebelkeh, wasn't a full PUG as such. It was me, two other guys and heroes. No great wonder we couldn't fill a whole group as it was a weekday morning so the Euro districts were kind of abandoned.
I am sure many of the people in this thread would have left the group before we even got off the starting blocks. Took more than 10 mins trying to decide what heroes to take and who's heroes. As no one really wanted to take the lead and make a decision.
Though we missed masters with about 30 seconds. We had fun once we got going even if yeah, as indicated from the ditherering over heroes before the mission started we ran about like a bunch of headless chickens inside the mission too before getting our act together and working as a team. Even stuck around for a few mins after completing the mission before we broke up the party, just to have a little chat.
The most surprising bit is really that we didn't miss masters with more than we did.

The last one I will share with you. Was Blacktide den with my new character.
This is the one I'd lable as a stereotypical PUG from my experience.
Another one where it wasn't a full group. If I recall correctly the party make up was two paragons, two dervishes and one assassin ranging in level from 11 to 17, the rest heroes.
Half of them didn't know what the bonus even was, the other half knew you had to kill five monitors but wasn't sure of where all of them were. (Myself, I'll have to count myself to that second half. Know the aprox area they were in, but not 100% on exactly where in that area.)
But we muddled through and found them all one person leading to get to the ones they knew the location of then someone else showed the way to the ones they could remember the location of. It wasn't spectacularly organised, but then again it wasn't spectacularly disorganised either.
No one took off on their own, did anything downright stupid or even if we may have taken a wrong turn at one point we took it as a group. Shrugged off the misstakes that did happen and congratulated each other on the good bits.
In all it was an enjoyable experience, even if going in alone with just heroes and hench would have been quicker. (After checking on wiki to refresh my memory on the most effective path to find all of the bonus critters - of course. )

I'm really hoping that the LFG mechanism promised with help PUG's get better.

I hope it's across district based but still allows you to select professions and levels in some way.

I await eagerly.....

Look, the leader:

a. Didn't fill the slots, and took only one monk-- a hero (lvl 18)
b. Didn't check with the team about their skills at all
c. Started the mission in spite of half the team saying to wait
d. When we zoned in proceeded toward the first mob

I'd say there was little need to be patient. You're comment is nothing more than a self-righteous attempt to categorize my experience in the light of your perceived status as a PvE player.

Indeed you are more patient than me.

My post answers this question.

good PUGs are always hard to form. Since nightfall came out, many knowledgable people used Heroes and henchies to complete missions. With heroes, you can customize their skillbar. This allows you to bring important mission critical skills for a missions. When many "expert" players are using heroes, this leads to missions towns containing many "casual" players who might not fully understand what they are suppose to do.

If you are trying to start a PUG, I would strongly recommend reading the mission overview at guildwiki.org Doing so will greatly reduce the number of wipes and improve the gameplay experience for your team. For example, not knowing that you need to bring "Wild blow" on Shiro's "Battle Scar" greatly increases the chance that your team will wipe and then half your team leaving.

My most memoriable PUG experience for the last month would have to be the Dunes of Despair mission where you are required to keep the Ghostly Hero alive for 10min. I tried to complete the bonus with 2 different characters without using the teleport cheat. I asked for a monk to help me and 4 hero/henchies complete the mission. Hero/Henchies and I would kill everything while the monk would be responsible for healing the ghostly hero while I'm off killing the generals at the fort.

First time: with W/Mo lv13. There was a lonely lv13 w/mo asking for a group and no one was willing to take him. I saw him flash a tiger and figured he knew what he was doing, so I gave him a chance. He performed flawlessly. He let the ghostly hero get aggro and healed the hero through siege attacks. I completed bonus around 1min left and we finished the mission together.

Second time: with Mo/Me lv20. I figured with a lv20 monk, he should be able to heal the hero. He did fairly poorly. He tried to tank the forgotten sword & hammer, but died in less than 10secs. He didn't try to run or spam healing spells fast enough. (No protective spirit either) I still managed to complete the bonus around 1min left, but couldn't manage to get back to the hero in time. We failed with 6secs left because the monk couldn't stay alive for longer than 10secs to hold off 2 forgotten soliders that rushed at our hero around 30secs left.

My point: a PUGers with proper skillbar and experience is vastly superior to clueless players, and there are a lot of clueless ones in town.

My only successful PuG was at Vizunah Square. Well...it wasn't exactly a PuG. My team was Heros and Henchies but the other team was a French guildie team that actually knew what they were doing. Being a sort of Jack of All Trades Necro at the time I made Wells and raised Minions and the other guys were nice enough to rez me when I died. Truthfully the only time I PuG is when guildies need help with missions. Ruins of Surmia seems to kill low level toons alot. *shrug*