That lingering curse feeling...

I'm not a negative person, but I'm really starting to get the feeling of decline for gw. I'm not sure if it's just repeatativeness or what but a few things come to mind.

- I think the random chest idea was a bad one, judging by the various polls I'm not alone.

- I think DOA is a poor piece of end-game content and judging by the threads, again I'm not alone there either. It really didn't help that it wasn't complete in the release of NF.

- I think the lack of storage upgrades is also poor and judging by the overwhelming cry for storage now, again I'm not alone. The *hat* storage will be nice and though i don't know exacly what we will be getting, if it's just *hats* I'm going to be sadly dissapointed. Limited storage has been a thorn for a very long time and for the first time i actually have a mule just so i can switch off hero runes, insignias and weapons. The intro of these features has proven to scream MORE STORAGE.

- HA is suffering badly right now IMO, it's turned into heroway and for me is mostly annoying to even bother with anymore. The intro of heros was very cool, but having them in pvp enviroments is sadly become the norm, even some gvg matches have become heroways.

- I unfortuantely think that the level cap is going to do GW in, along with the lack of elite weapons, armor and skills have everyone almost at a standstill. There is starting to become less and less to shoot for and i think something really needs to change or chapter 4 will be a poor seller.

Obviously these are my opinions, but they are not unjustified as i read through the forums and hear much of these issues over and over again. Will the game survive to see chapter 5? I'm really not as sure as i once was...

I'm a positive and negative critic of the game (read some of my posts and you'll see), but what I'm seeing being promised is actually giving me more hope that GW will go on for quite a while.

Anet are addressing long standing requests such as reconnects, LFG improvements - remember observer mode for PVP was well up there in the request list until we got it. They're just not addressing them on the timescale that the user community are demanding - which is realistic and understandable.

All this goes to improve the core elements of the game and not just bundled with the chapter content.

Hey chests are a lucky bag - I don't have a problem with that.

Storage - yep with you on that one - very frustrating to switch toons every 2 mins to store stuff on mules.

DOA - nice challenge - don't have a problem with that.

HA - can't comment - don't PVP

Level cap - no problem for me


My personal list of stuff which I would really really want is down to just 2 items - Improved trade and more storage (once AI is fixed).
With all the other stuff they're enhancing in the game I'm willing to cut them some slack here.

With all my constructive critisism I have to admit - Anet is really trying to address long standing requests and isn't ignoring them.

- The randomized chests was an economic hit to chest runners alone; to everyone else, it's a boon. The main reason you see whining about it on the forums is because most well-off players also frequent forums, while most casual players don't.

- We wanted raids, we got raids. I honestly don't get people who think SF was just such a damn good "elite" area. It's not elite, it's pretty much the same difficulty as the hardest areas of the southern shiverpeaks, save the flame djinns and the final boss. UW and FoW are also not what players are clamoring for; no one goes in there to quest, they go in there to farm. ANet finally made an elite area that's nigh-impossible to farm, where the quests are what matter, and of course people don't like it, because there is no easy way to get Tormented weapons except to do the quests over and over again.

- They're just getting to reconnects and a party search system, two of the things on the very short list that we've been clamoring for since day 1. This shows that they actually are listening to us, and there is certainly hope in the future for the other things we're asking for. The suggestion of hat storage bodes very well for this.

- I just went into HA yesterday as heroway for the first time in literally months. The old 8 man HA was stale and gimmicky; at least now we have the option of jumping in and just having fun in a tournament setting with a build we like. Also, not one of the teams I faced had more than 3 heros, so it's not really a complete loss to heroway, and the teams with real players tend to kick the hero teams' arses anyway.

- The level cap is one of the founding principles of GW. You raise that, the only thing it does is makes xp worth something for a few days, before everyone is back to max level. As-is, the devs are putting things in the game that function like levels, but don't actually affect the game balance except in a few areas. I'm talking about Lightbringer points. You gain levels in that, and you become both more resilient and more powerful in certain areas of the game. That's EXACTLY like raising the level cap for particular parts of the game, but what are people doing? They're whining about LB discrimination.

Elite weapons - They just added the FoW of weapons, the Tormented weapons. See how many people are whining about the price of them. People don't want expensive weapons...they want all the shiniest stuff, cheap.

Elite armor - There are a LOT of expensive armor sets in this game. FoW and something along the lines of 10 ascended armors for each profession. Plenty of choice there, I think.

Elite skills - Not only do they add more elite skills every game, they're now adding pve only skills. That's a massive can of worms they just opened, but maybe we'll get overpowered monster style skills in future campaigns.

And you are part of the problem.

You've made post #84785 about issues that are longstanding. And yet, they still haven't killed the game.

If you think this is something new, then you weren't around for beta events, when level cap, fixed items and storage were discussed into oblivion and back. And yet, none of this has impacted the game.

HA has been whiners paradise since start. And then, rank was introduced.
Chests are irrelevant.
DoA - go to ToA, and ask for UW quest group. You'll be surprised that it's easier to find a group for DoA than for UW. Remove farming from FoW/UW, and the place will be empty. That place was just as exclusive as DoA is. The only difference is, someone came up with the 55 idea. And since then, UW is a solo affair. Want to quest, get a guild. Same for DoA. And if the place is too hard for you, you're not good enough. Unrewarding, perhaps. But too hard? No.
Level cap - dead horse is begging me to stop beating it
Storage - dead horse's second cousin twice removed asks to stop beating him as well

Count the number of people who raise this stuff on forums. You'll find out it's the same people over and over.

You've just made another completely pointless whine over nothing. All that which was listed is irrelevat to success of the game. And it was proven over and over.

Your post seem to have some points.....until you start talking about level cap and elite weapons, where everything turns into....complete BS.

No offense.

ya i do see the decrease in the population, but maybe thats because its spread out over 3 chapters.. espically places like toa only has 1 distict when use to have 4/5.

Ya most of ur points are vaild although i dont want a higher level cap 20 is fine. also lack of skills wtf? theres hundreds of them...ya some are copys and total rubish but there are loads.

It's really not a problem and as the community expands the expectations and whining increase as well. I'm not whining about it, just pointing out that people long-standing are having continual mixed feelings about the state of the game. I'm not even offering suggestions about change! But i am noticing a decline in the general population and even more disgrunt then there used to be. I read all the beta discussions and was around for them, I love the game, but there is a growing list of issues with it that is becomming harder to deny. I also think that this digrunt isn't helping growth. Sure a-net's listening, sure they are bringing out new features, have no idea if it will help though. So many people that i know personally have left the game and most likely won't be comming back.

And it's not completely pointless, if this is a trend, then pointing it out and continue to point it out makes the game change, none of it is really pointless. Not trying to stir up dust, not trying to produce more bad feelings, just seeing the responses and getting a feeling for the opinion, it's hardly a bad thing. If nothing else, your post has contributed to this lack of desire to be envolved, if it feels pointless then we are all out an otherwise good time.

This has bugged me for sometime, how does the trade need improved? Are you talking about an auction house? Or possible a way to force players to spam the trade channel. Just saying improved trade is so....vague. Personally I'd be all for either of the 2 I just stated, but for some reason I don't think thats what you meant.

None taken, it's just a lot of what i've been hearing lately.

I like the random chests, prevents scams and keeps everything even, everybody got the same chance.
I don't know what to think about DoA, it's a little much time-wise, but I do appreciate that they gave us something to do after Abbadon.
Storage needs to be expanded, not in another tab, but more like ten times more space for your items, now storage is more like a step between char and mule.
HA, can't comment on that, don't do much PvP.
I think I know what you mean by cap and weapons, that the highest stats come quite early in the game, but that's just GW, if they would add 15-24 swords suddenly it would completely destroy all other weapons + it's more skill based like this.
Skin are just looks you, a 15^50 collectors sword is better then a 14^50 crystalline, but still is worth much less. It's the skins you shoot for, if that's what you mean.

Well that's part of the problem - all we're told by Anet is that they're working on trade improvements and it's not an auction house.
We have no idea what that means.

I gave up trying to sell stuff - I found that I was spending so much time repeatedly changing districts and then advertising what I had in the trade channel that I wasn't playing the game anymore.

All I know is selling is a real pain in this game, I'm not prepared to spend hours spamming the trade channel in different towns and districts to try and find a buyer. Trading is broken for me.

Aye, I get ya now. And know just what ya mean (maybe a tad redundant), though I haven't given up. I just get frustrated sometimes. They could always, do FFXI where players can set prices to things in their inventory... but I suppose thats not original, and people hate it when someone suggests using things from other games .

Maybe it will be similar to an auction house, where you can post that you have the item without a price. Then people who look can see everyone who has that item and message the person to work out a price. Though if they go that far they might as well make it an auction house. Meh I hate speculating on the possibilities as it never pans out to what I think. I just don't see how they could improve trade chat

I think a lot of elite skills talk is about lb gaze and the increable gimped lb signet. This talk being mostly pve talk.

The level cap has been talked about a lot and is a reason why a lot of people either stop playing or play the preview stuff and don't go to buy the game. Many games invent was to achieve and i think anets commited to that trend as well, but right now it's a little behind.

Forums are now and have been the pulse for decisions in game content, so far it's been a pretty healthy discusion and i'm glad to hear good talk

1) How can you complain about randomized chests....They were promoted as being random before, now they truly are...It is actually a blessing to some people including me. All It really hurts is the group runners that would make 1 person waste a key on the chest to see...and that was just a situation that fostered abuse.

2) You wrongly assumed that "end-game content" meant another FoW/UW or Urgoz/Deep reskinned and rehashed? The latter parts of DoA are actually the closed thing we have to a Raid in GW - which I think the game needed 1-2 of on the PvE side. You also got to stop thinking that his greens are the goal of DoA...they aren't. They are merely there because ever since Factions Anet has snuck greens on about everything they can fit them on and Mallyx is no exception.

3) In every game I ever played in this genre people have cryed for more storage in some sense or another (based on that games storage features).

4) HA wasn't hot for creative thinking before Heros. If anything they have just gave newer players a way to integrate into the roster of HA without the limitations of Rank Discrimation (can't get in a group if you arent ranked, cant get ranked unless your in a group. random unranked pugs get wiped by everything and just convince the person to give up). The "Elitest"s of HA have always QQ'ed about what ever they could - the addition of heros just gave them another excuse.

5) The lack of such things to a degree have kept GW going through some pretty bad decisions. PvE is admittedly weak in relation to the amount of time and "stuff" you put into a WoW or Everquest character for example. This isn't a curse though since GW market's itself as a game where you don't have to worry about huge level gaps and unbalanced equipment later in the game. They are trying to add more and more each chapter to have clear goals in pve if thats your focus, but if they were going to market this as a true MMO type experience they'd fail miserably...

--------------------------------------

I love how you started the thread sounding like you were going to make a valid point, then totally drove off course with claims and statements so easy to disprove and counter. I agree there are things in Guild Wars I don't like and everyone can see that theres less exciting interest in the game with each chapter - thats understandable on a certain level, not many games in this genre last very long in the spotlight and Guild Wars started alittle trend in its design its only a matter of time before someone picks up on what they did right and outclasses them.

Anyway, you should learn that forums are a horrible place to judge how a game is doing. Forums usually make good homes for the more addicted or elitest players of the game. And its this crowd (me included I guess) that like to point out all the wrong in the game and what they think should change. You have to note though that to an extent these rants are a good outlook on the game really when you consider these people ranting are the very ones that log multiple hours a day in on the game and spend so much of their free time on forums dedicated to said game...something that would not happen if their interests laid elsewhere.

*I'll probably edit this post later to make my points clearer, but I had a short time to write this*

I don't have that feeling. I think the game is getting better, but there are some issues that constantly bother me. For example, we were told LONG ago that alternative access methods to The Deep and Urgoz's Warren were being looked at.

Where are they? What is going on there? Why don't they just put the NPC's back in Kaineng Center they had for that event and be done with it?

It's the "Let's stop talking about it and hope they forget" sense I get from them regarding things like the alternate access methods for The Deep and Urgoz's. They tend to do that often...

...To be fair though, more often than not, they take that path then remind us of what was promised in an update out of the blue (See: Reconnects, Improved Party System) so we can't really lose too much hope in them.

Eh, I think with Urgoz and the Deep, its more that they are looking for a way, that doesn't completely undermine the meaning of owning the towns. I think they want to keep the primary way of getting there a ferry by the guild, maybe put a statue in a hard to reach place, that if you kneel at and pay the toll of 1k....

My guild owns no towns, and I personally think it would be a shame to lose that system. I agree there needs to be an alternate way. But alternate doesn't mean change it altogether, it just means offer another path. And if they want to offer another path without ruining the game for those guilds that wasted alot of time earning that faction, they need to make that alternate path somewhat hard to attain.

They didn't matter, simple as that.

With missions lasting between 15 and 45 minutes, the disconnects weren't a problem.

Grouping wasn't a problem due to high population concentration.

But as there are now areas that take 1.5 hours at minimum to complete, and the number of quests rising almost exponentially, these features started to become necessary.

This is why they are only now being implemented. You need to differentiate between what is essential, and what is optional. Disconnects in particular became an issue with DoA. Losing a single member in Urgoz or Deep didn't kill the group. It does kill DoA groups. Quests were always a henchie affair. So grouping wasn't necessary, and those that did want to group, used guilds.

With introduction of Masters difficulty quests in areas that are unfavorable to henchies (gaze, LB) this became an obstacle.

Alternate access to Factions elites? They are looking into it. But adding unrestricted access to them is a slap in the face to those guilds that FF 24/7 just to hold a city. Don't ever even hint at simply disregarding them: there's hundreds, if not thousands of players to whom this is *the* goal. It may seem lame to many (it does to me), but who is everyone to judge what everyone enjoys.

For the same reason, increase in storage isn't required. Some could use it, but it's not required and doesn't prevent anyone from playing to full extent.

Xunlai was intended and designed only and only as means of transferring items between characters. Not as a bank deposit box. The materials and hats storage will be a very welcome addition on top of this concept.

I really hope that they're shooting for functionality and not dismissing improvements because they've been done before.

I don't believe Anet could be that stupid, hmmmm.... but they did just go and invent a new storage mechanism "*just for hats*" now didn't they.... when they have 2 other storage mechanisms already - inventory and vault/materials vault and people screaming for more generic storage.

Maybe I better wait and see...

It's perfectly ok to pick concepts which are proven to work from other games - I mean that's how we make progress after all, build upon good things and make them great.

The moment heroway gets killed, complaining about rank discrimination resumes. Former Ruling said it well, but I think being able to beat heroway is a better test of skill than "rank 5" ever was.

Skyy High, you just shut down most of the major complaints beautifully. I applaud your post.

First: No, most people wanted stuff to do at end game (end game content that is able to be done and repeated with fun). NOT "elite missions" like Factions and Nightfall have added, that are areas that just require gimmick builds (the required Rebirth across a wall skills in The Deep, anyone?), punish balanced play, and are really unable to be done by nearly the entire population of the game. And to add insult to injury, they put something not even remotely an 'elite' reward but is something every basic player wants deep behind the elite area (aka, the ritualist hero).

Secondly: I sure hope we don't get skills. I'm already disappointed with premise of the PvE-only skills. I hope things don't escalate in that direction any more. (Celestial skills worked okay.)

We wanted raids? That's news to me.

I honestly don't think anyone does think of SF as an "elite" area. I mean, it's far too much fun to be considered an elite area.

Worthless assumption. You don't have the first clue what other people are doing in the game. That sentence tells me more about yourself than about the game.

You know, anyone who loves Guild Wars has no problem at all with doing the same stuff over and over again. It's either that or not playing at all after a few months. So, if doing the quests over and over again is not the problem, what is? The utter lack of fun in those areas, perhaps?

And nigh-impossible to farm? Funny, two weeks in and the Stygian area is already so badly overfarmed, that Stygian gems are dropping in price faster than any item ever before. I already bought 2 for 11k last night. The seller was desperate to get rid of them.

Hmm..well before anything is said from me, I do have to congratulate Anet on the updates they made on the game. Yes, they updated the game, but I cannot say they improved the game. Let me explain if I can what I mean.

Ya, I know all of this stuff that they added is cool. However, here is a reason for my skepticism about all of it. Really, it would only come in handy, at least for me, in the prime of my guild wars playing experience. (the first few months). After the first campaign was done for me, and the 2nd (which took roughly 2-3 weeks to do for both), I started making money. And pvping. I did pvp, because I thought when I was buying guild wars this was one of the best features ever. That for an mmo, (or whatever this game is anymore) pvping is balanced and skill based.

Without more open-endedness in pve though, my attention was lost. And after my FoW and crystalline shiz was accumulated, basically I lost interest in the game. I did not overplay it though, hell because I played the market correctly I got this stuff in over 1 month or so, not more than 1.5 months. And that is just going around Ascalon and L.A. looking for good deals, spamming never did shit for me.


I don't know why people make a big deal though with pve being unbalanced. Hell, I may be retarded and I may be the only one here who thinks this but wouldn't it be better if pve and pvp were spread apart firmly. I mean, the pvers don't really pvp, and pvpers dont pve, so why try to weave these two
things together. A Pve-primary player, like me, want to develop my character, and want more open-endedness. I don't really know how this would be done, but I think it would make this games longevity increase a lot more.


Anyway, if I got a little off track there I'm sorry, I don't know if I explained what I wanted to say really well . But, to me these "updates' are a little too late. I can't say Guild Wars will die though. But, I do forsee a takeover with these new mmo's coming out. They look really promising, I cannot deny that. This game will stay, but like Anet always makes us adapt, they will have to take a taste of their own medicine shortly.

I think the biggest complaint is that there isn't a challange. When i ha i would venture to say that 80% is hero/henchway. Not very challenging at all on top of the fact that it's player vs player, which hero battles are around for heroway. But yes i've been with rank 10 folks that are confused about builds and really don't know how to run them.

yeah i agree that end-game content is important, in as much as very difficult end-game content isn't as much *fun* for most folks. There is an awful lot of complaining about DOA (way more so it seems then any area before), perhaps there will be gimmick builds at some point that will make them cake walks, but with the globals it might be awhile. Factions elite areas don't really have any MAJOR gimmick builds, like sf and tombs do. None the less, i still do sf because i still enjoy it and a ton of people that i know still do tombs almost daily. I guess we are gluttens.

I'm not sure how i feel about the pve only skills, but i can say that i've heard a ton of people asking for them even more and complaining the elite is seriously gimped.

A lot of that extra loud complaining about it is because of the non sequitur of it containing the (THE) ritualist hero as its primary reward. The few elite-content-mongers feel slighted because they get nothing they want from it, and the rest of the game feel dumped on because they'll never be able to get a ritualist hero.

This is so wrong...

am i the only one who would pay another 50$ for the original gw? i think im nostalgic...i miss the old gw so much

I would as well

DoA = for highly elite

Fow and UW = the medicore elite

Deep and Urgoz = good fun

More storage = buy more slots. Storage cost server space which cost money. Anet has given us material storage and now the event item storage for free.

HA has always been broken. First it was spirit spam, then IWAY, then blood spike, then 6 man holding teams. Here's a bigger challenge name one time that HA was NOT broken.

This has been said so many times but I'll say it again. Lvl 20 means nothing. There is no difference between being a lvl 20 having 500 life taking 50 dmg than being at lvl 40 having 1000 life taking 100 dmg.

Its just bigger numbers that still boil down to the same ratio of dmg taken compared to max life. So why not cap it so casual players don't have to grind for months to be able to compete and have fun?

here's what I think about some of the issues:

storage: I really think there is a need for unlimited armor and customized weapon storage -- players like to collect armor and weapons, and it's not fun to have to dump old ones when new ones come out. I don't think that armor and customized weapon storage would affect the game economy in a negative way, since they essentially can't be traded.

as for more general storage slots -- I don't think we need that.. we will always fill up our storage slots no matter how many we have, then complain that we don't have even more.


level cap: one of the main ideas behind guild wars is the low level cap -- so that gameplay is determined primarily by your ability in making and playing good builds. This is fantastic!!

like someone mentioned the Lightbringer ranks is in a way raising the level cap, but the good thing is that it's local to Nightfall. This "local raising of level cap" is a great idea because if someone misses a few chapters and buys the newest one, they can jump right into that chapter without needing to level up through all the new levels introduced in the chapters he missed.

randomized chest drops: to be honest, the way it was before, though great for chest farming, was broken -- it was never intended to be that way, and it's good that it's fixed.

what I would like to see: henchies in the Underworld and FoW -- why not?!

Been playing on and off as a semi regular player since the release of Guild Wars cramming in all my play time after work and during the weekend. With my time even more lacking soon I am glad that I can still pick up this game and play with everyone without having the feeling of being left behind.

Amen to a game that prides itself over skill instead of elitism. Yes there are parts of the game that require grind, but hey they aren't necessary to compete competively.

I wouldn't care very much if they removed level caps in PvE. Might enjoy using my level 198 necromancer... (that's his "theoretical level) *sarcasm*

I don't think the game is dying, yet. There are some big changes planned for very soon, and they might greatly improve the gameplay, just wait.

There was a time i felt the same way as the OP post factions release so i wont blame him for feeling the way he does.

In alot of ways, we got what we asked for in Nightfall, solution for bad PuGs, easier participation in HA, a story line that dont suck, better cutscences, more challenging end game area...etc but not all without their own consequences i admit. Not all changes and features makes everyone happy, its only normal since we all have different preferences.

The only thing i can contribute perhaps is to point out that our wishes and suggesstions can be dangerous to a genie that listens and grants wishes literally. Be careful of what you ask for. Beyond that, there are hints of improvements and changes on the horizon and perhaps hope.

Dont give up and hang in there, we have pulled through thus far, give Anet more time.

One thing you have to remember is that every 2 years there is going to be a new generation of people coming into an age to play GW. I've seen some 9 year olds that were better than most adults.

Since GW is going to be around for a few years it can keep rehashing sales on just new kids. Eventually you are going to want access to the skills so most players will buy every chapter. GW isn't going anywhere for a very long time.

Same here, good job Skyy High!!

Except I don't like the class/build elitism in ToA.

Ah yes the old days.
How we all miss those days.

I myself, blame the rapid expansion of problems on forums.
With forums large amount of players ask for different things and complain about different things. By using these we open up each other's eyes on certain subjects. Thus creating more complaints and demands. As Thallandor said, ANet is the genie who acts litterally, without mass complaining our views can be mixed up and easily confused, thus more problems emergy. So we go and pin the problems on ANet and say "fix it".

But then again Pin the blame on the Cause isn't the best game to be playing when people are argueing about whos right, whos wrong. If anything creative minds like that of Skyy and, the rest of the community, should come together, not to complain, but suggest ways of ridding the problem more often, no doubt this happens, but very rarely mabye?

Yes, Prophecies was the golden age, the lack of toys meant we found our own things to do, now that we are given toys, we complain about how "the leg won't move properly" or "it's too hard to use". Wake up, see the light, play the game for what it is.

Don't ask for Storage. You don't need fancy 3 sets of 15k to play the game on 1 charcter, sure, materials was a wiser idea due to the large amount of materials, but seriously don't ask for more space without good reason.

For those of you who ask for more skills or more weapons. Open your eyes, it's rather easy. Go ahead and compare the skills of Guild Wars to some other top knotch games, yes, the games are different, but the skill variety and system is the best i have ever seen.

Elite Areas. Elite. Hard. It's meant for hardcore's who don't give up till they get or they die. And if you can do it, oh well, it's not so elite is it? Don't Complain.

Could go on with more stuff but i can't be bothered.

Solutions > Whining.

Yeah, I've got to agree here. While I really don't feel the game is dying as fast as the OP would suggest, I really do hate DoA. It is an area that isn't for everyone. Why Anet spends this much effort working on areas so many people dislike is another matter, but I'll try not to dwell on that too much. I just think removing the restrictions for the hero would cut back on a lot of the complaints. It may make DoA completely uninhabited, but if that happens, Anet should look at why people don't like the area itself, not whether there's a good enough reward on the other side to keep people trying to go there.

To everyone, thanks for the input. I'm not feeling bad in anyway about the meta game, again i'm just pointing out the complaints i hear and read on a regular basis, which does affect the community to some extent.

-As to when ha was never broken, i would say before you could bring heros in. Alex just made post about this issue in dev tracker and it's a pretty big one if the devs are quiling about it. Henchway faction farming has went on until the release of factions and the zashen challenge. i ha every night almost and it's 80% heroway. I know the 1337 crap that goes on in there, but there are plenty of good unranked or *dont care about rank* folks to.

-Localized *faux level cap raising* with lightbringer, yes i believe thats what a lot of pve folks want, more power, better 1337 skills like that for a goal to reach. Unfortunately the elite skill is pretty crap. The pve game is all about killing big groups of baddies and getting uber rare random drops. DoA is really a bust and thats not just my opinion either. now that folks are starting to complete, theres a rather large disapointment about the end game re-skinned (screams of *crapola*) weapon drops. Razah (not to mention he was put in the manual to be variable) really isn't that tough to get.

- The really large cry about storage comes now when pve folks have to outfit heros, change the armor (which is even more rune/insignia/weapon/etc) storage then ever before and i think it's justified. As far as server costs to add 25 more slots or an armor storage tab, i dont think it's much. I can spend quite a bit of time swapping from a mule to another character's heros to equip them properly, which goes without saying if i had all the weapons i needed for all my characters heros i'd need even more storage, which doesn't even include keys/coins/reqs/dye/contracts/etc.. Storage was an issue before, but adding all these new features (3 new dies and trade items) has made long standing players required to have a mule.

-As far as chests, I personally have never been a big chest person but i do miss the days when one person could test out a chest and know whether it was worth using a sometimes 1.5k key on it. I think some folks are talking about a skeleton key which would open numerous chests (5-10 maybe) and might help to silence the cries over the randomness change, if nothing else it might just help the storage issues.

I truly think if chapter 4 comes out with the bugs/missing/incomplete features that nf came out with, there will be a rather large decline in the player base. I do understand that it takes a lot of time and energy to create a game like nf and there will be bugs and such, but a huge number players aren't that understanding either I think a-net needs to be a little more careful.