Grammar
Nicolas Elensar
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Ensign
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Originally Posted by Grammar
Also, I'm terribly torn between PS, SoA, and SB for my PvE ZB build (and I can only take one).
If you can only take 1, it's Protective Spirit. If you couldn't take any, you'd cut a spell for Protective Spirit. That skill is absolutely essential in many boss fights and is a great long-lasting Prot in many other situations as well.
The second one is Shield of Absorption, and it's good enough that there's probably something on your bar you can cut for it. Monsters do focus fire at times in PvE, and when they do Shield makes that person simply stop taking damage. Spirit Bond is an anti-spike skill that's huge in PvP, but less essential in PvE where players really don't get spiked down by a bunch of different, coordinated monsters. It's almost always a boss with huge (Prot Spirit) hits, or a horde that Shield of Absorption shines against. Peace, -CxE
Burst Cancel 640 health max 320 after infuse 317 after vamp 317+32 = 349 (54.5%) after DF heal, ZB still triggers +10e The case for Spirit Bond becomes stonger the further in the game you progress. Late-game areas, for instance, tend to be full of monsters that will hit for 60~100 every hit, which makes Spirit Bond rather attractive.
Carth`
In my experience you don't get the +10 energy unless your target is still below 50% after DF.
Prot Spirit is nice for the duration, but Spirit Bond is nice because it actually heals the person. Spirit Bond is a great spell for stopping spikes in PvP, but Prot Spirit is very useful as well. Which one you use is personal preference, and situational. In PvE I will tend to take Prot Spirit because it is longer lasting, and you get bosses that can do 400 damage in a single hit, in that case a heal for 80 won't help. SoA I don't class with PS and SB, although they are often used with the same goal in mind. SoA is nice against pressure and focused fire. Very powerful in PvE and in PvP when used right, but it won't be as useful against something that does slow, high damage attacks like many spellcasters in PvE. In that case a PS will limit the damage to about 50, but SoA could be slow to reach that level of damage reduction (for example Searing Flames will do 119, then 114, 109, 105, eventually SoA will end and you were still taking nearly 100 damage every time). I find the same is sometimes true of hammers/scythes. They do a high amount of damage and are slower to have the damage reduced, but a Prot Spirit keeps it reduced to about 50 for a long period of time. Akane
ZB is my favorite PvE elite. But I don't typically use any of PS, SoA or SBond.
I utilize mostly heroes and henchies running a Life Bond build to protect the tank and squishies. [skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill] [skill]Blessed Signet[/skill][skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill] [skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Smite Hex[/skill] [skill]Life Bond[/skill] [skill]Balthazar's Spirit[/skill] and Lightbringer's Gaze. The foes all seem to have the same target preferences, so I usually bond up my ele, necro, warrior, and fellow monk. The rest rarely need it. I use Aegis to cover anytime we engage a group - otherwise the bonds are vulnerable to stripping. No rez? I leave rez duty to the henchies.
Burst Cancel
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Originally Posted by Carth`
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Originally Posted by Akane
I utilize mostly heroes and henchies running a Life Bond build to protect the tank and squishies.
What are you going to do against non-attack damage? Invoke Lightning isn't going to care about your Life Bond.
Carth`
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Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
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WoH used to measure 50% after DF, that I'm sure of. I am guessing it doesn't any more since ZB doesn't.|
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
Prot Spirit vs. Spirit Bond is not a matter of personal preference. It is a matter of what kind of damage your target is taking.
Yes. If you have both on your bar you can use the right one in the right situation. But if you can only bring one or the other, I try to predict which one I will need more, but sometimes it ends up just being which one I prefer to have at the time. I can choose if I want to. In fact every skill choice can be called personal preference, and anyone saying "no, monks always use these skills" can go to hell. I will make my own build.
Blame the Monks
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Originally Posted by Grammar
^^^ Quotation from Wiki about Zealous Benediction's energy bonus. But I still see 8 people out of 10 around here say otherwise. Can anyone clear this up for me? The conditional energy gain is calculated BEFORE DIVINE FAVOR. Many people are confused by this because they don't realize you won't get the energy back when you are exactly at 50% (such as after an infuse). That and just the general tendency to spout off on forums without testing. See this post for a demonstration with pictures of how to get the +10 back from ZB consistently: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=79 Akane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
This is a mistake. What are you going to do against non-attack damage? Invoke Lightning isn't going to care about your Life Bond.
The build I showed is effective in most of Nightfall, including LB farming the Margolites in DoS. It's a lazy-man's build that relies on having a healer (Mhenlo will do), and where I really don't have to do all that much. However, admittedly, the build is TOTALLY crap in DoA.
The bottom line is that, IMHO, ZB is an exceptional elite skill for PvE monking. It's offers a "rescue healing button" that can turn the tide in a battle, especially when the healer is going down. And it does so while maintaining the advantages of a full prot allocation instead of resorting to a jack-of-all trades build.
Burst Cancel
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Originally Posted by Carth`
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Nobody is stopping you from making your own build, and so long as you don't play with me, I certainly don't give a good goddamn what you bring. But the fact of the matter is that Prot Spirit works better in certain kinds of situations, and Spirit Bond works better in others. Effectiveness isn't a matter of which one you feel like bringing at the time, it's a matter of hard facts and numbers.
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Originally Posted by Carth`
I can choose if I want to. In fact every skill choice can be called personal preference
In the real world, only things that do not matter are left to personal preference. What color do you dye your armor? Personal preference, it doesn't matter. Which armor inscription should you buy? Ah, now that's a complicated question with a bunch of factors including the types of builds you will be running, the opponents you expect to face, not to mention the power levels of the different mods to begin with. The decisions going into that are not arbitrary at all, there are clearly better and worse solutions.
Skill choice is exactly the same way. Every skill you put on your bar is at the exclusion of something else, and gives you abilities that you otherwise wouldn't have. For a given character, team, mission, and other paramters, there is a subset of best skills and best characters. Those characters are simply more effective at completing whatever objectives the player or team has. The term for someone who makes arbitrary decisions on problems with meaningful, distinct results is a moron. I'm not going to say that morons don't have a right to be morons, I won't try to convert you, but please shut the hell up and stop cluttering up this person's legitimate question with counterproductive drivel. Peace, -CxE Tegato
Sorry about double post. Ignore this one, and read the next.
Tegato
I came upon this thread, and it was an interesting theory. So I tested it. Same result as Burst Cancel got.
My vamp is weapon set 2, so don't get confused. ;P  600hp/2 = 300hp. vamp down to 275. Divine Favor heals for 35. 275 + 35 = 310 = 52%, still got the +10 energy So Zb triggers before DF is activated. I was curious enough to try it out. Why don't you do the same instead of just arguing..?
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Age
How did you get you hps down on the Nameless Island and I saw the exact same build on GWonline meant for PvP use and nice btw?I am to playing and experimenting with ZB have gotten it quite down yet.I am useing in place of Life Sheath.
Use a vamp weapon.
twicky_kid
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Originally Posted by Age
How did you get you hps down on the Nameless Island and I saw the exact same build on GWonline meant for PvP use and nice btw?I am to playing and experimenting with ZB have gotten it quite down yet.I am useing in place of Life Sheath.
Use a vamp weapon.
I would not use SB in PvE. You cannot predict when 10-11 hits occures. While it will prevent more dmg than PS its too unpredictable. Grammar
Thanks for the insight folks, it's greatly appreciated.
I think we can close the book on the ZB issue. As for the enchantments, I've decided to keep Prot Spirit on my bar, and I'm tinkering with the idea of clearing up an additional slot for SoA (as Ensign suggested). Here's my build at the moment: -Zealous Benediction {E} -Gift of Health -Reversal of Fortune -Signet of Devotion -Protective Spirit -Dismiss Consition -Remove Hex -Rebirth It's pretty much down to Remove Hex, RoF, and Rebirth as to which one I drop for SoA, with Remove Hex being the most likely option. I'm not really comfortable dropping RoF, and I've never run a PvE character without a rez. Even though my monk barely ever uses Rebirth, I don't want to be caught empty-handed in a wipe situation. So what do you think? Would I be teh eV1L monk for not having a hex remover?
Burst Cancel
I would keep the hex removal and drop either the res or Signet of Devotion. SoD was a lot better on Blight bars because a) you ran 14 divine and b) you really needed the emgt. SoD on a ZB is often either insufficient or unnecessary - the former because you only have 10 divine, the latter because ZB is conditionally free.
Ensign
I basically run that bar with Shield of Absorption over RoF and Holy Veil over Remove Hex. Holy Veil is just better than Remove Hex, I hate spending 2 seconds casting a spell (Signet of Devotion I cancel all the time), you can precast it when you know there will be problem hexes, and realistically I think you end up casting it more than Remove Hex anyway. Inspired Hex is the other one I've considered bringing, but without consistent energy from it I don't think it's worth it, you don't get enough from the slot.
RoF, if you need it, is awesome. It's almost always efficient and buys you time while you cast your big heal. I don't think it's nearly as big in PvE though, the damage is generally really easy to predict and I'm rarely in need of skills to throw between ZB and Gift. If I ran it, it would likely be at the expense of Gift. Gift is good, granted, but it isn't super sweet in a build featuring ZB and at a relatively lower spec you get for it because of that. Shield of Absorption is nice, but it isn't the skill it is in PvP. There, it's this awesome anti-pressure skill that makes a focused target stop taking damage. If you have great aggro control, awesome, SoA is great, but if you don't it really underperforms. PvE is so much more of a Heal Party environment, where everyone is taking damage at once, and SoA isn't all that sweet if enemies aren't focusing fire. I can understand running without it, but it's going to need to be because of a really solid, cramped bar, like the one you listed. Peace, -CxE
Carth`
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Originally Posted by Ensign
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Originally Posted by Ensign
The term for someone who makes arbitrary decisions on problems with meaningful, distinct results is a moron. I'm not going to say that morons don't have a right to be morons, I won't try to convert you, but please shut the hell up and stop cluttering up this person's legitimate question with counterproductive drivel.
I really think an admin shouldn't clutter up this person's legitimate questions with his personal attacks and unprovoked insults. If you want to call me a moron do so in PM.
My only reason for posting was to try and help the original poster with what I thought was right. Nobody is infallible. I could understand "counterproductive drivel" and "shut the hell up" if I went out of my way to give the wrong information, or was simply spamming/trolling. I was trying to help by answering his questions. Sorry you feel otherwise. Peace, C
commando91
I have found SB to be quite useful in when an ally is being attacked by multiple melee targets. In this case, it is easy to predict when 10 attacks will occur with multiple enemies attacking at the same time. Of course, from doing HA alot and looking at many pvp builds, SB is very crucial in pvp.
Flashy
Its hard to choose between PS and SB, PS is nice cause the damage can't be higher then 10% which means you need 10 full damage hits before actually dying. But if you know target is already gonna start with high hits then why not take SB...
Just know what you are going to face: Warriors that attack in Sandstorm take pressure + 10 secs long damage... With PS this is actually damage while when you use SB this actually is a healing  (I always got SB maxed out to 100) still the best is PS + SB hehe unless they don't stack up anymore, I dunno been away for a couple of weeks  
XvArchonvX
@Ensign
Dude, I think you need to take a break and relax for a bit. Carth was mistaken, but he wasn't 'blaming the game' for his misconception. Taking a single mistake and using as reason to call someone a moron is not only distasteful, disrespectful, an oversimplified assumption prone to innacuracy, but also very innapropriate action for a moderator who is supposed to make a good example on a forum. You're an excellent source of knowledge on monk skills and usage, but please at least think twice before going off on a rant and making personal insults to someone just because you disagree with them on a forum about a video game That said, I agree with Ensign's suggestions for the modifications on the monk build. I have been running the build suggested with said adjustments in PvE and have found it quite effective. SoA can be a good choice for PvE, but I would reccomend RoF over it if there needs to be a decision to take only one or the other. RoF on top of being an overall good skill is excellent for saving dying allies just enough to be able to allow yourself to cast ZB.
Maxiemonster
Tip: Place your party screen on the same spot at all times, and have it at the same width at all times. Then just mark that part of your screen at 50% health (you can test this on your own character). This way you'll always get the bonus
Might seem a bit silly, but a bit of see-through tape won't hurt you screen, and it could really help if you keep missing the 50%.
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