Snowball Arena...FUN! But possible imbalance?

No no no... not a complaint... actually kinda the opposite.
This is a simple observation and some opinion.

So 2night i got halfway to the first title for Skillz. The last group i played with was phenominal. It is so hard to get competant players in RA, and maybe harder in the snowball arena as you all probly know. The last concecutive win streak we went on was over 20+ games. And here is the kicker, in honesty we owe a LOT of this to the beloved DWAYNA!

Yes, when your team ends up fighting for Dwayna, each player gets an AoE crippling skill:: Avalaunche!! Granted my team worked VERY well with eachother employing mock GvG tactics like 2 and 2 split for offense, and 3 and 1 split for defense, body blocking etc. But what REALLY gave us the edge was the fact that about 85% of the time we got to fight for dwayna. And boy did we cheer EVERY time...

Now you ask, "So what's he crying about?" Nothing. In fact, i felt bad for the other team as we almost ALWAYS were on Dwayna' side. Sure, the rare instances of us as Grenth, we still won, but we new eachothers playstyle by then and could take less experienced groups as Dwayna...

So waht skill does Grenth have in counter? Yellow Snow. Lose one condition, and the next snowball causes disease. <<< That is the biggest JOKE of a counter to >>AOE CRIPPLE<< that i have ever seen. I am kind of surprised as to Anet's actually considering this as balanced, but as it was released as such, it would seem they don't see it this way...

Again, i am talking for the little guy, being the devil's advocate, etc. How did we finally lose? Cause we all had to get some sleep before work. Now since i am not pointing this out out of fustration for loses, i will point out comparisons per skill as objectively as i can::

Avalaunche::
- Target + AoE Cripple.
- Range is edge of aggro bubble.
- Cripple time, 10 seconds.
- 1 second caste time.
- 30 second recharge.
- Drawbacks: None; recharge may be considered too long by some.

Yellow Snow::
- Lose 1 condition.
- Your next snowball causes Disease.
- No specified time for Disease.
- 2 second caste time
- 4 second recharge.
- Drawbacks: Only applicable WITH snowball; caste time is too long for a high KD/interrupt environment.

So as Dwayna i have 3 ways to slow/stop Present Runners. 2 KD sources, AND a Cripple. This gives a huge advantage in both offense AND defense. Snare runners, gives you time to build up KD, KD then take present... or you are the present runner or protecting an ally runner, you snare pursurer, increase distance between you two, and KD to greatly increase this space...

And as Grenth, i only have 2 ways to slow/stop Present Runners. 2 KD sources. Snaring runners, you are out of luck if you dont already have your Mega Snowball charged, or a Hidden Rock loaded up. Either one you choose to use, you end up putting distance between you and the one you are pursuing. And when KDing a present runner, if you or a teammate are not near them, a KD is pretty much useless as they will simply pick the present back up running along on their merry way. Warriors obviously have a bit of a chance as the can use "Let's Get 'Em!" boosting their run speed to get ahead of the present runner and charge up their KDs. As far as protection AS the runner or when helping an allied runner, the same applies from the pursuing line of thinking. Nothing to slow them down and you decrease their distance from you as you stop to charge KD... not gonna spell it out.

I don't think a nerf is called for, rather, i would LOVE to see a buff to Grenth's team skill. Along the lines of the Dervish i woulda thought Grenth would have the crippling skill, and Dwayna maybe a heal or condition remove. Definitly surprised about that fact. Maybe instead of yellow snow, different form of cripple for them? Well, i realize i really made this TOO long of a post. But the fact remains. It is imbalanced. As fun as it is, i still feel real sorry for players who get stuck as Grenth all the time...

Yep, this was written at like 4am, so maybe this line of thinking is stupid, maybe not. But this arena surpises me in terms of consideration for balance AND accuracy of gods/skills affiliations. Btw, sorry again that this is so long, thanks for reading it all (if you really did, LOL) Uh. Ya.....

So, flame, comment, support, refute, complain, comprehend, or make me a cheese sandwich, its all good. Again, NOT A COMPLAINT THREAD, a simple observation and opinion that is obviously here for debate. And..... BEGIN!....

cheers!

Agreed, playing on Grenths team is at a loss due to no snares. Granted you could come as an ele and Ice Spikes, but the whole other team has snaring ability. Perhaps just change the disease to cripple?

Yeah dwayna is imba for sure.

Yeah, I noticed this. It could really do with a change, as Avalanche is one of the most useful skills you can get.

You have to remember that Yellow Snow isn't just a counter to being crippled by Avalanche. It also counters being dazed by Snow Down the Shirt, plus it enables you to degen the enemy (the only other degen skill is Holiday Blues, unique to Necromancers). Yes, KD and Cripple is very useful for stopping Grenth's team from getting away from presents, but the better tactic for Grenth's team to use against that is good, hard snowball fighting. Use the two KD skills as much as possible, but otherwise, aim to damage the enemy as much as possible, as you have the upper hand in not being dazed and having the ability to degen. Rather than slow them down so you can nick their present, kill them and take it... then there won't be anyone to immediately Avalanche and KD you as you try to walk away.

as the leader of the old gods she kinda gets that advantage. anyway, i havnt played it yet but intend to play it alot. i have read, however, that warrior absorption runes and ranger pets are still useful in the snowball arena. just another advantage that not everyone gets.

It's a pretty large imbalance, I don't think I ever bothered to prepare Yellow Snow because you would have to ignore Hidden Rock (HR). But anyway, it's a fun event and consecutive wins don't give you anything except less waiting time.

I don't think it's worth resigning over, not that people do.

Not to mention Disease harms your team as well..

The disease caused by yellow snow can easily spread back onto you and your teammates which takes away the supposed "advantage" and backfire on you.

I agree with the OP and would like to see it changed too.

Yup. This is a well-known balance issue. I hate it every time im on Grenth side, because Avalanche is so priceless, and yellow snow so useless because killing people is mostly wasting time, while slowing down movement, knockdowns etc is far more valuable.

Last year people were arguing the other way.

So really, its not.

If Yellow Snow was 1 second to use, I think it would be just as strong as Avalanche.

Snow Down the Shirt+Avalanche+Snowball > Yellow Snow.

Hard Fact.It is indeed overpowered.

They could simply lower casting time for Yellow Snow to instant and it'd be perfect.

And like last year; every match has a leecher... Why!? You dont get anything by loosing this year! Stupids.. Hope you don't fint it out before the event is over...

Well, good to hear im not the only one seeing this!

I think a better balance would just be SWEET for increased amount of FUN that BOTH teams can have in the Snowball Arena. Instant caste for Yellow Snow would be a help, or some better affect then disease, like maybe single target cripple? Idk...

I started playing again today, and its just as hard to find a good group... i have worked out the odds to about 1 in 10 chance (may be more or less for others) in terms of getting a non-afk, non ragequit team where at least 2 others know how to play. hehe. going 15+ games since this post, and record is standing at 0 wins, 15 loses. Goes to show my odds calculations can be even worse! Sadly, as fun as they are even with loses i end up feeling like i wasted time. GAH! cmoon halfway to title!! Grrr

cheers!

There is definately some imbalance in in Snowball Arena, but I don't think it's anything that A-net needs to worry about. The Dwayna side does have a clear advantage, but since teams switch between sides it equals out in the larger picture. I would say that some classes do have advantages over others. Unfortunately I think Rangers got the short end of the stick, but either way, it's all in fun.

Perfect indeed. If there was no casting time, and a perhaps LONGER recharge, Yellow Snow would be used to counter-act Avalanche... But only if timed correctly.

It could also be used as a quick buff to the snowball you're about to throw.

Did anyone noticed that the Blinding Snow skill does not work properly?
It says it blind your opponents but blind doesnt seem to make your opponent miss their attacks :S

That's because you can't attack in the arenas anyway. The blind doesnt work on spells.

The best thing I can think of is that it's supposed to be a cover condition versus yellow snow, but that's super conditional.

I thought that was Lyssa.

No no no you can't make yellow snow instant cast, maybe 1 second, but you dont want to completely counter Dwayna's skill, it would just tip the balance the other way.

Think about what it takes to get yellow snow.

It can't be instant, and be glad it doesn't take 8 sodas and one hour to recharge.

Avalanche is only dangerous if used properly, and yellow snow is too slow if you're dazed. Usefulness of both will strongly depend on how well your team works. Rather than worrying about being crippled, your team should hold the others off your back by knocking them down, while you're moving slowly.

If you do get into pinch, you can always drop the snow fort (or whatever the thing is called), and wait for condition to wear off. Of course, you can get your present stolen in that time.

I made the same topic in some detail on GWO today. I agree, there's a LOT of obvious imbalance here.

The only thing good about their skill is that it can interupt. Either than that, it's the most useless of the unique skills.

It can put out Hidden Rock and Ice Fort pretty well, and hit an opponent from a good distance away (while kiting if you desire)

It isn't spammable, but I happen to like it the way it is (If only blind could stop the snowballs from being tossed though, seeing as they are spells )

Lol. Very true.

Yellow Snow
1 Casting Time
No Recharge (Only a requirement). Requires: 2 Drinks

But then what if you don't have any drinks on you? O.o

Hmmm... Kk. Never. Bad idea.

Leave it as is. (but consider lowering it to 1 second casting)

A little late, but I merged concerns about the Mesmer-specific skills into this thread. Feel free to comment about the other profession-specific skills as well.

I personally find Steady Aim and Sidestep to be the 2 most useless skills in the arena.

Errrm. just to reitereate. my thread wasn't about class specific skills....

It was about Avalaunche for Dwayna's team and Yellow Snow for Grenth's team. PLEASE please focus/re-focus on this aspect and its original opinion of imbalance. Perhaps read the first thread (although long) or at least skim it to get some background. I say this because 1) i am curious about people's opinions on that specifically and 2) i did not participate in last years Snowball Arena so i have little to compare my experience to. Thanks!

cheers

disease isn't very useful when you're fighting other humans...

I'm aware of that, I merged it because I assumed you'd want to discuss balance in general regarding the snowball arena, which includes profession specific skills. They ARE a part of the arena as well. If that's not the case, then disregard it.

Oh course they want Dwayna to win. Grenth crunches up the poor little presents and ruins wintersday.

I find that it truly dosnt matter. At the core of it its the player not the skill. A skill used impopperly is going to be very weak. Ive used yellow snow countless times to remove the crip from avalanche. While runnning view your opponets move if you see avananche going hit yellow snow before avalanche hits and you'll be fine.

70 wins, slight advantage with Dwayna but easily taken care of with proper skill usage

Yep, there is no doubt the avalanche is the better of the two skills. Glyphs should really only be used for KD, and while yellow snow isn't BAD persay, it's not nearly as effective as avalanche. This game is not about slow degen, it's about pressure from knockdowns.

Good point with the cripple remove though, but as typically it's goign to be quite hard to get yellow snow up if you're being targeted what with snow down the shirt and frequent knockdowns.

Who'd have thought someone could get so technical over a simple snowball fight. I've never tried PvP but played two snowball games, once for Dwayna and once for Grenth, threw the snowballs, carried a present, was both times in the winning team and had a lot of fun, which is what I thought was the object of the exercise.

The mesmer skill is actually excellent to interupt attacking enemies using Hidden Rock.

yeah my origional team consisted of 1 monk 2 rits and 1 mes. we tanked SO many matches that i started taking screenshots of all of them. that mesmer skill is really good when you only have 1 enemy to watch.

I jhave found, as a Ritualist when running the present and I'm faced with 1 persuer and no support.

Fortress: Enemy will come stand right next to you.
Ice Down Shirt: Enemy will be perplexed why you made this move.
Jack Frost: Everything he does gets interupted as you make your way to the avatar

quite useful, especially on grenth team with little over KD / protection methods.

I got 30 wins in the arena with this tactic. Then I got bored and left. We really could have went on forever. Our 30th game was won 5-4. The last runner for our team died and dropped the present. I took over and won the game as my last present to them so they can continue without me. But yeah, after 30 straight wins, it really does get boring after a while. Time for a break and I'll work on the rest of my title tonight.

i have to say, there is alot of imbalance in the snowball fights. but im not complaining. ice breaker is pretty useful!

If i remember correctly, last year disease did not spread back to your allies. The skills/conditions changed, but the game did not change with them... hence the unbalancing.