From www.Guildwars.com
"1v1 Tournament Ladder and Championship Series
This is probably the biggest expansion of all. Given the introduction of Hero Battles with the release of Guild Wars Nightfall, it only makes sense for us to offer this as an additional format for competitive play.
Starting in early 2007, alongside the 2007 Guild Wars GvG World Championship series, we will run a similar series for 1v1 Hero Battles (1 player and 3 Heroes vs. 1 player and 3 Heroes).
This new format will get the same support that GvG has, including its own tournament ladder, automated tournaments, and a world championship event.
And with the advent of this system, we will also track individual account statistics! This means we will be able to call out individual accomplishments as well as accomplishments of competitive guilds."
While I'm excited to see the new changes to GvG to see how they work out I can't see why they would bother trying to bolster HvH which is imho a crappy format while ignoring substantial support for TA and HA. Anyway, thoughts?
PvP Updates: Why the HvH support
Winstar
Zinger314
Because TA is dead due to abuse, and HA is dead due to abuse. HB is new and can be redeemed.
And HB is much more exciting and thought-provoking than any TA or HA slugfest.
And HB is much more exciting and thought-provoking than any TA or HA slugfest.
HolyHawk
HB is being abused as well, just log and wait for the other person ask for a roll...
Avarre
Rolltourney is win?
The Ernada
I really hope they clean up HvH before they put in the ladder. First the rolling abuse needs to be squashed. Then do something with the game mechanics to discourage the millions of Rit holding + running assassin gank builds.
Redfeather1975
What is rolling?
Is it people who see what they are up against and leave?
Is it people who see what they are up against and leave?
The Ernada
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
What is rolling?
Is it people who see what they are up against and leave? |
tomcruisejr
nerf /roll. disable it in battle and enable it in outposts so bored players can gamble.
Terra Xin
there's no point in nerfing roll, it was invented by the community. Solution - ignore the roll and kill the team, you don't get penalised for it.
Mr_T_bot
Sounds promising, but anything in this game that sounds promising will be destroyed within a week then everyone will keep doing that and it will be a waste of time to play while Arena Net continues to hold it up on a pedestal.
Anarkii
Now here's the chance to use my hacked dice.
Oh wait...
Oh wait...
myword
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
And HB is much more exciting and thought-provoking than any TA or HA slugfest.
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you weren't being serious there were you
Redfeather1975
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Originally Posted by Terra Xin
there's no point in nerfing roll, it was invented by the community. Solution - ignore the roll and kill the team, you don't get penalised for it.
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Avarre
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
And HB is much more exciting and thought-provoking than any TA or HA slugfest. |
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Haha.. 2Mo 1Rt 1X trying to camp the center shrine for 10 minutes is exciting and thought-provoking?
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lyra_song
the last HBs ive been all involve N/Rt, N/Rt, Rt and one capper
The Ernada
The format and concept of HB is fun. You can test out some builds without having to bother other people. But like anything else, it's ruined by people. People can't bother to think for themselves and just copy the most popular cookie cutter build i.e. Rit Holding + Runner Ganker builds.
Seltack
I think HvH has the potential to be good, its something completely different to other types of PvP and I've enjoyed playing it before this roll crap began.
I don't think saying "People run lame crap" is an excuse for it not being worth playing, it's not like HA and GvG don't see that sort of thing.
I wouldn't have minded seeing a TA ladder aswell, perhaps something for the furture.
I don't think saying "People run lame crap" is an excuse for it not being worth playing, it's not like HA and GvG don't see that sort of thing.
I wouldn't have minded seeing a TA ladder aswell, perhaps something for the furture.
Apple
TA ladder would be much more worthwhile than an HvH crappy ladder.
myword
i just read it again and saw what i missed early. i nearly choked
"This new format will get the same support that GvG has, including its own tournament ladder, automated tournaments, and a world championship event."
tournaments and a championship for HvH? wow.
people have only asked for a TA ladder since beta and HvH aka random arena v2.0 gets it
"This new format will get the same support that GvG has, including its own tournament ladder, automated tournaments, and a world championship event."
tournaments and a championship for HvH? wow.
people have only asked for a TA ladder since beta and HvH aka random arena v2.0 gets it
Yanman.be
HB right now are full of title griefers, rollers, and people who abuse AI in an almost perverse way.
Also the sheer amount of cookie cutters who think they own.
I saw a guy claiming he was better than me because he ran 3 RaO thumpers and a monk. Go figure.
Also the sheer amount of cookie cutters who think they own.
I saw a guy claiming he was better than me because he ran 3 RaO thumpers and a monk. Go figure.
Seltack
Where as in GvG someone runs a load of searing eles and thumpers and think he's better than you?
Amity and Truth
Hey, is the new FOTM to hate on everything that is "Hero"?
zakaria
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
HB right now are full of title griefers, rollers, and people who abuse AI in an almost perverse way.
Also the sheer amount of cookie cutters who think they own. I saw a guy claiming he was better than me because he ran 3 RaO thumpers and a monk. Go figure. |
PS:i'm not that one who is claiming he is better than you, i was just making a point.
Frank Dudenstein
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Because TA is dead due to abuse, and HA is dead due to abuse. HB is new and can be redeemed.
And HB is much more exciting and thought-provoking than any TA or HA slugfest. |
Winstar
Honestly, there is little or nothing thought provoking about Hero battles. It was painfully dull how easy they were, and I still dislike hitting AI when I want to pvp. The maps themselves do add new elements, npcs, catapaults, health shrines etc., and so there is some potential for a good game here if done right. But why not kick the stupid heros and make it a new 4 v 4 format for humans?
Anyway, TA is still a fun arena imo and I wish they would have added a ladder for it instead of AI wars. My only real thought as to why they did it was to appease a certain portion of the population. Some more casual or pve oriented players were upset that HA lost heroway, GvG got big updates (For better or worse we'll find out) so to appease the other crowd they add support for a largely PvE style of PvP. But really that this format gets the same support as GvG does is a joke.
Anyway, TA is still a fun arena imo and I wish they would have added a ladder for it instead of AI wars. My only real thought as to why they did it was to appease a certain portion of the population. Some more casual or pve oriented players were upset that HA lost heroway, GvG got big updates (For better or worse we'll find out) so to appease the other crowd they add support for a largely PvE style of PvP. But really that this format gets the same support as GvG does is a joke.
Amity and Truth
Why?
Why is it a joke?
Does the GvG Crowd somehow exist of superior human beings or something? I don't see any reason why the GvG Players should be treated differently. They play the same game. They have payed the same price for it as everyone else. So why should they be any special?
What is the troublesome influence that will spring from allowing Heroes Battle Fans to have a ladder of their own? Please, tell me how this does influence the GvG Player.
It's a different part of the game. A part of the same game though. GvG is just one side and like every other side not any better than the other sides. As i said earlier, i think it's just some sort of FOTM to bombard Heroes.
Why is it a joke?
Does the GvG Crowd somehow exist of superior human beings or something? I don't see any reason why the GvG Players should be treated differently. They play the same game. They have payed the same price for it as everyone else. So why should they be any special?
What is the troublesome influence that will spring from allowing Heroes Battle Fans to have a ladder of their own? Please, tell me how this does influence the GvG Player.
It's a different part of the game. A part of the same game though. GvG is just one side and like every other side not any better than the other sides. As i said earlier, i think it's just some sort of FOTM to bombard Heroes.
zakaria
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Originally Posted by Winstar
Honestly, there is little or nothing thought provoking about Hero battles. It was painfully dull how easy they were, and I still dislike hitting AI when I want to pvp. The maps themselves do add new elements, npcs, catapaults, health shrines etc., and so there is some potential for a good game here if done right. But why not kick the stupid heros and make it a new 4 v 4 format for humans?
Anyway, TA is still a fun arena imo and I wish they would have added a ladder for it instead of AI wars. My only real thought as to why they did it was to appease a certain portion of the population. Some more casual or pve oriented players were upset that HA lost heroway, GvG got big updates (For better or worse we'll find out) so to appease the other crowd they add support for a largely PvE style of PvP. But really that this format gets the same support as GvG does is a joke. |
2- complaints about heroway are finished by limiting 2 henchmen/heros per party.
3- gaile stated many times they will be upcoming changes to PvP.
I don't see any changes or improvements to HB touch you or any hardcore PvP player (HA/GvG)..so what's your point ?!
Aera
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Because TA is dead due to abuse, and HA is dead due to abuse. HB is new and can be redeemed.
And HB is much more exciting and thought-provoking than any TA or HA slugfest. |
There's still a lot of TA players actually, it's not dead at all
Ninna
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Originally Posted by tomcruisejr
nerf /roll. disable it in battle and enable it in outposts so bored players can gamble.
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http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2005-05.php
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| Removed the "/roll” command from towns and outposts. |
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
Why?
Why is it a joke? Does the GvG Crowd somehow exist of superior human beings or something? I don't see any reason why the GvG Players should be treated differently. They play the same game. |
EDIT : I changed the wording of my analogy, as it was misunderstood as to be an attack on other players.
Draikin
I think the potential is certainly there but the current hero battles concept is so flawed that it needs to be changed drastically to make it worthwhile:
- disable emotes during battles or fix the consecutive wins (for example give 4 Victory points after 4 wins)
- reset the Commander title for everyone after fixing the above.
- change the bonus from the center shrine so that it no longer grants points, change the NPC shrine so that the NPC no longer counts as an extra team member while capping shrines.
- improve the AI: currently the heroes have no problem killing themselves while hexed with spoil victor. There's also the monks who are walking around at 25% health with 4 conditions on them and still refuse to use any form of condition removal. Even worse are monks who are at full energy and who aren't healing at all. There's also the problem with the extra NPC who decides to run off even if you tell him to stay at his current location. The AI reaction to AoE damage also needs work: by the time they run away from meteor shower they're half dead.
- Fix the bugs with the waypoints. Apart from the skill casting bug there's also the problem with heroes who refuse to use any skill if they haven't reached their destination. If you manage to block/snare then before they reach their destination, you can wipe time out easily.
- disable emotes during battles or fix the consecutive wins (for example give 4 Victory points after 4 wins)
- reset the Commander title for everyone after fixing the above.
- change the bonus from the center shrine so that it no longer grants points, change the NPC shrine so that the NPC no longer counts as an extra team member while capping shrines.
- improve the AI: currently the heroes have no problem killing themselves while hexed with spoil victor. There's also the monks who are walking around at 25% health with 4 conditions on them and still refuse to use any form of condition removal. Even worse are monks who are at full energy and who aren't healing at all. There's also the problem with the extra NPC who decides to run off even if you tell him to stay at his current location. The AI reaction to AoE damage also needs work: by the time they run away from meteor shower they're half dead.
- Fix the bugs with the waypoints. Apart from the skill casting bug there's also the problem with heroes who refuse to use any skill if they haven't reached their destination. If you manage to block/snare then before they reach their destination, you can wipe time out easily.
Hell Marauder
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Toddlers splashing in a pool and olympic althletes are both swimming, but if you think they are on the same level of effort and capability, or deserving of the same attention, then your logic is oddly intrinsic.
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That toddler may well be olympic athlete of his/her age, if there's such thing as olympic tournament for toddlers. People like to pick on heroes because they know heroes can't fight back or talk back at them, a very cowardly act at its root.
HvH is the idea of the same team that came up with GvG. Football is a sport, so is tennis. And you never know how AI will evolve one day, and Pentagon is developing fighting robots and unmanned airplane as we speak. War is still war, whether fought by machines or swords.
drekmonger
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Originally Posted by Draikin
- reset the Commander title for everyone after fixing the above.
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Quote:
| - improve the AI: currently the heroes have no problem killing themselves while hexed with spoil victor. There's also the monks who are walking around at 25% health with 4 conditions on them and still refuse to use any form of condition removal. Even worse are monks who are at full energy and who aren't healing at all. There's also the problem with the extra NPC who decides to run off even if you tell him to stay at his current location. The AI reaction to AoE damage also needs work: by the time they run away from meteor shower they're half dead. |
I daresay, at the highest levels of play, HvH will reward the very best players. Meanwhile, not so great players will continue to blame the AI or cheesy builds for their losses. (though I'll agree that the AI doesn't have the appropriate response to Spoil Victor...it's mostly just that the skill is overpowered). I haven't personally encountered a build in HvH that I could not beat yet ....
...and I tend to run entirely offensive builds with very little defense (as in no dedicated healer). The two or three monk heavy defense builds are a joke, and almost alway end up beaten in the end. The searing flames spammers are easily defeated if you just micro you're guys positions. The center altar spirit spammers (of which I might be the first) can be beat via dervishes, aoe, spiritual pain, or shields up/whirling defense even.
The "problem" with HvH is that there's so far no observation mode or matchmaking. (though I anticipate that will change when the ladder is implemented) People are free to complain about the latest tactic to beat their own flawed tactics, without seeing how better players dispatch cheesy builds. People are free to farm PvE noobs with lame tactics for hours without encountering real opposition.
Draikin
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Originally Posted by drekmonger
I haven't personally encountered a build in HvH that I could not beat yet ....
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drekmonger
...and I tend to run entirely offensive builds with very little defense (as in no dedicated healer).
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Originally Posted by drekmonger
The game is decided by whomever can juggle the most micro while still managing strategic positions.
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Winstar
"I don't see any changes or improvements to HB touch you or any hardcore PvP player (HA/GvG)..so what's your point ?!"(Zakaria)
The point is not that increased support for HB will undermine GvG in anyway as it won't. The point is that it is strange that HB would be given equal treatment in terms of tournament support. As pointed out Avarre, like it or not, there is a huge difference in quality of play as it stands. At the moment its not just a difference of tennis vs basketball or something like that. Its like Pro Tennis players vs elementary school badminton. This of course doesn't mean that it couldn't improve, but this raises other issues. (1) What about existing formats that have a strong following that could use more support, i.e. TA, HA. Why pass over doing something to aid these formats? (2) If you want to support PvP why push to the fore a format which is primarily about AI (Heros...). (3) If you like these new arenas why not just dump the heros and make it a new 4v4 arena? The maps and goals themselves could be good if tinkered with, why not let teams of real players go in? Koss and friends shouldn't be a essential part of a PvP format that is gaining substantial support.
Basically HB was a new and not so popular arena, suddenly out of the blue its getting equal treatment to GvG. Why???????????????????
The point is not that increased support for HB will undermine GvG in anyway as it won't. The point is that it is strange that HB would be given equal treatment in terms of tournament support. As pointed out Avarre, like it or not, there is a huge difference in quality of play as it stands. At the moment its not just a difference of tennis vs basketball or something like that. Its like Pro Tennis players vs elementary school badminton. This of course doesn't mean that it couldn't improve, but this raises other issues. (1) What about existing formats that have a strong following that could use more support, i.e. TA, HA. Why pass over doing something to aid these formats? (2) If you want to support PvP why push to the fore a format which is primarily about AI (Heros...). (3) If you like these new arenas why not just dump the heros and make it a new 4v4 arena? The maps and goals themselves could be good if tinkered with, why not let teams of real players go in? Koss and friends shouldn't be a essential part of a PvP format that is gaining substantial support.
Basically HB was a new and not so popular arena, suddenly out of the blue its getting equal treatment to GvG. Why???????????????????
selber
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Originally Posted by Amity and Truth
Why?
Why is it a joke? |
FoxBat
The reason for anet support, good or not, is threefold
A) You have to buy the latest product Nightfall to play hero battles.
B) It's an outlet for 1v1 competition. (No snide remarks about 1 vs 3 AI, if the human player isn't piloting their heroes at least somewhat, they aren't going to win against someone who is.)
C) But most importantly of all, it is easy to track. With the anti-guesting rules , a guild vs guild roster stays relatively fixed for a season. How do you track Team Arenas progress, when in TA you can take any 4 people from any guild or guildless? If you fix 4 players to a team with a custom team name for the duration of the season, your basically making them into a mini-guild. Which may not be a bad idea but will probably be frowned on by anet for being inelegant and basically reproducing GvG where they didn't want to. Inidividuals OTOH are very easy to track, they can even switch guilds as much as they like without affecting anything, you're still always the same person with the same rating unless you have multiple accounts.
Nonetheless I think mini-tournament support for TA would be awesome. Even if no long-term ladder or big tournies, just a bunch of elimination tournies with some prize at the end would be fun. Although though this is pretty much stepping on the toes of HA if it remains a 6-player arena (and if anything is ever done about altar).
A) You have to buy the latest product Nightfall to play hero battles.
B) It's an outlet for 1v1 competition. (No snide remarks about 1 vs 3 AI, if the human player isn't piloting their heroes at least somewhat, they aren't going to win against someone who is.)
C) But most importantly of all, it is easy to track. With the anti-guesting rules , a guild vs guild roster stays relatively fixed for a season. How do you track Team Arenas progress, when in TA you can take any 4 people from any guild or guildless? If you fix 4 players to a team with a custom team name for the duration of the season, your basically making them into a mini-guild. Which may not be a bad idea but will probably be frowned on by anet for being inelegant and basically reproducing GvG where they didn't want to. Inidividuals OTOH are very easy to track, they can even switch guilds as much as they like without affecting anything, you're still always the same person with the same rating unless you have multiple accounts.
Nonetheless I think mini-tournament support for TA would be awesome. Even if no long-term ladder or big tournies, just a bunch of elimination tournies with some prize at the end would be fun. Although though this is pretty much stepping on the toes of HA if it remains a 6-player arena (and if anything is ever done about altar).
The Ernada
Ok before some of you start calling others "toddlers", I'll start by saying that I do PVP pretty regularly in all formats, except RA. Everything from TA, HA, GvG, and Alliance Battles.
I dont claim to be a master at anything but claims that HvH is for "toddlers" is pretty damn insulting. It smacks of snobbishness. Just because it's not GvG, doesnt mean it's a "joke" I LOVE GvG...and I can also appreciate HvH as well.
Some of you need to get over yourselves and taking yourselves so seriously. You are not superior to anyone. If ANET wishes to "give equal treatment" to a format you don't like. Tough. It's the same as some PVE players complaining about GvG tournaments and not getting PVE tournies.
Just be happy with what you do like and have and stop bitching about what others would enjoy.
I dont claim to be a master at anything but claims that HvH is for "toddlers" is pretty damn insulting. It smacks of snobbishness. Just because it's not GvG, doesnt mean it's a "joke" I LOVE GvG...and I can also appreciate HvH as well.
Some of you need to get over yourselves and taking yourselves so seriously. You are not superior to anyone. If ANET wishes to "give equal treatment" to a format you don't like. Tough. It's the same as some PVE players complaining about GvG tournaments and not getting PVE tournies.
Just be happy with what you do like and have and stop bitching about what others would enjoy.
drekmonger
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Originally Posted by Draikin
I assume you're running an assassin primary/secondary?
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| Now I have real trouble believing you, unless you're offense consists of a pack of spirits... |
This is what I mean by the lack of observation mode hurting HvH. When people start seeing one of my teams dismantle a defense heavy team on the observation mode, I suspect the meta game will shift towards my style of play....which is frankly more fun than the defense heavy rut people are stuck in.
Or people will continue to run two to three monks, and I'll be at the top of the ladder.