Saving HvH play - Removing the Rollers.

Rolling.

Two people enter Hero Arenas. Both emote /roll 100. The loser leaves giving the winner a point to his Commander title.

This is bad, for many reasons. There are the obvious implications of "taking a fall" and "ladder manipulation". The title for Commander is basically on its way to becoming worthless now. Most importantly, it prevents me from playing the game how it should be played: Two people enter, a fight ensues, first to 20 points wins.

After refusing to roll, I've had a few people camp on their res shrine with two monks and a motivation paragon, forcing me to wait out the 10 minutes, saying "I won't play your game. I hope you enjoy your 10 minutes of boredom." That's how it turns ugly.

That's the problem. And here is how I propose to fix it:

1) Award a point not on a single win, but on a streak of 3 or more victories.
2) Redesign the title tiers to accomodate this. Basically, divide by 5.
3) To make higher teirs of the title mean something, take the current earned value for each player, divide by 3, and put that value towards the new title to a maximum of the first tier.

It's imperative this is implimented sooner than later. Rollers don't deserve a title, and the faster this gets niped in the bud, the less whining there will be about people who have aledgedly lost points to this title.

Play to win, play for fun. Just play. I want to make well-rounded builds and test them out where it counts... not a cheap win, but a true test of skill against a number of different, varied opponents. And I want meaningful proof that I did this.

Then they'll just do rock-paper-scissors.

ArenaNet will get to it when they refine HvH for Tournment Play. It's not a huge concern now. Just laugh at the people with Commander titles.

Really, players are like that, well tell you what, easy win then for me. They can have two monks and a paragon, still my tactics are good enough to beat it, done it before when the title did not exist. My suggestion is to put them in their place, then rub it in their face.

I, have never went into HvH, but I can already understand how horrid this is. ANET will fix this, eventually, but for now

/sign

^^, they'll do rock/paper/scissors next.

so thats what they mean by typing "roll?" before the match starts. i never knew what it meant. and when i asked about it, no one seems to respond with an answer. so i just play the match like how it was intended, only to ask myself why did they just leave the game without putting up a fight. well now i know.

/signed - not for solving the problem like how the O.P. suggests, but for solving the problem nontheless.

just dont worry about it, it will die down. But i'm glad people are bringing this up, and good thinking on the idea.

rolling is at the beganning of the match both people agree that the person who rolls highest on a 100 sided die wins, so the loser leaves game. So its like a 30 second game instead of 10 mins.

How about changing the title by giving title points for each kill/morale point. Maybe get bonus title points for getting 20 kill points in a game. That way you actually have to do some killing to get points. And bonus points for 5+ consecutive wins.

Shh... dont give them ideas. I wouldn't worry about it too much though. When they implement the HvH ladder or whatever they're talking about, this shouldn't be a problem. People will fight for the #1 HvH spot, and if they possibly make these observable...everyone will know whose a "cheater".

^^ Agreed

/meh

Just to remind you all, my idea is not to remove the "/roll emote".

My idea is to only award title points when you have a streak of 3 or more, instead of one point per win.

This will remove the incentive to roll, as rollers depend on other rollers for their system to work. It also makes the title worth more because a single win in a sea of infinite tries doesn't mean anything. Removing the reward removes the reason for exploiting the ladder.

About having the title based on points... well, you'd be surprised at the number of people who simply quit when the other guy has a lead of a mere 3 points.

Not to be ignorant, but what exactly is the /roll emote for anyway? I haven't gotten into them yet but hero battles are one of the things I was most looking forward to when reading about Nightfall, I hope this problem gets fixed one way or another.

A few things that I feel that need to be changed to make HvH a viable format and not the joke that it is right now.

1. Make it so that after a win, you stay in for making it able to get consecutive wins

2. You only recieve a commander point for each even number consecutive win, this will limit /rollers since you have to win twice in a row to get a point makes the title less farmable and meaningless

3. Have an individual ELO rating. Low points gained or loss during non tournament match more for during tournement play.

4. Use ELO rating to match opponents so that you face people of similar skill level.

5. For the daily tournement, have an NPC in the HvH area that when it is 10 min prior to that the exclamation activates over it. When you want to participate in the tournement, you go and click on this NPC and accept the mission from it. Before doing so, ensure that you have your team set up the way that you want for the tournement. After the 10 min are up, the NPC will not accept anymore participants and a tourney bracket is made using the ELO system to place you accordingly. Have a five minute countdown during this time and when it reaches zero is when the matches start. At the beging of each match, show how many match there are left for each person to get to the finals. Give a ingame prize to the winner.

6. New emote system. Track the number of wins for the daily tournement and give an emote for winning the tourney at 10,25, 50, and 100 wins.

7. Have the tournement and matches between high ranked individuals be obserable. Observer is one of the main reasons that the skill level for GW PvP is better now than what it used to be. Do the same for HvH, so that people can learn effective builds and tactics and deepen the general level of play.


As HvH stands right now, the competition and reason to play are not there. If Anet wants to support HvH and bring it to the front along with GvG, these or similar steps will need to be taken to ensure that it is a viable format and bring in serious players willing to participate. I will say that after trying it, the concept and objectives are good, but as it is set up right I wouldn't play it.

They do it theirselves, and why does it bother you that someone else got a title through "cheating"? I'd only be interested in the titles I make myself and from which I know I've got them by the normal means. I don't really see the problem. If they want to be in the fantasy that they "pwn" at Hero Batlles, let them.

Because I want to play the game to work on tactics and builds, and when I face against a roller, they mostly either quit or grief.

I ran over to HvH to see what all the rolling fuss was about. Slapped together a half-arsed team (Protection Monk, Healer Monk with Infuse, Shock Axe, and my own special Ranger build) and entered mission.

First battle, the opponent asked if I would like to roll. I declined, we fought, and I laughed at an easy victory over Searing Flames in HvH after the opponent quit (probably frustrated with all the spiking their Zhed to the ground I was doing).

Second battle, the same opponent asked if I would like to roll. I declined, the opponent left the arena.

Third battle, no request for a roll. Ran to the center shrine, noticed my opponent was a fellow Ranger, and then proceeded to have quite the exhilaratingly match, with quite a few twists and turns. I was again the victor, but not without effort.

I stopped my fighting there, having earned one point toward the title and essentially given my other two points. This wasn't what I wanted to spend my time on, and it certainly isn't how I want to earn a title.

/signed for an end to the nonsense, if not necessarily in the way the OP suggests.

Lol who cares about them? If they roll, just go ahead and fight them. Most of time they leave if they see you coming.

Due to the holidays I havent played a single game of HvH since the title was implemented. Ive been throwing yellow snow for almost a week straight.

If some cracker decides he wants to roll out, then I hope he brings some skills- because I really like Hero battles, and this whole concept of taking a fall sounds really freaking stupid. You wont catch me doing that.

Its easy enough to get free points with all the quitters anyways, its seriously more retarded than a leecher in RA. However I dont think making it mandatory for 3 wins or whatever to get a point would work for me... five would be a much more round number (ten would be too much)

...its unfortunate that people bring their laziness to pvp- if the only way you can stand to play is by afking missions, leeching FA, etc, then maybe you should just play grand theft auto and use the tank cheat. At least then you can feel like youre really tough.

Alright, another reason why we should have 2 mesmer heroes! This /roll nonsense seems ridiculous, but I'm sure many people have already exploited this extrodinarily much.

/Signed. I honestly don't understand why both HA and TA have a reward for consecs but HvH doesn't. Do they honestly think HvH is harder than HA or TA? The only other game type that doesn't have a reward for consecs is GvG, but that's because you're returned to GH after a GvG (why are you returned to HB after a HvH?) and because GvG is mucho mucho harder than HvH.
The more consecutives needed, the better. You're not likely to win 10 /rolls consecutively.
Reward for 10 consecs please.

sorry but consecutive wins is just frustrating.
How many times have you won 9 in a row for nothing at all?

Btw its fun even without a title!

If we can't stop it, we should improve it.

Every /roll battle won gives you a point to Lucky title.
Every /roll battle lost gives you a point to Unlucky title.

:P

Great idea! Love this. Seen my brother play and they call you a noob for not rolling. XD Pathetic.

yeah, divide the points needed by 10, and give 1 point for 10 consecutives, fixed, done, finished, end of. (don't say this is unfair/impossible, nobody whines about RA. If the need be, make it 5 consecutives, because obviously, beating hero teams is harder than beating random teams, because they can bring specific counters to your build.)

HvH was dead day 1, trying to salvage it is pointless.

Just disable emotes in HvH, just like they prevented you from swicthing armor in PvP areas, and all our problems are solved

But then I can't salute my opponent before and after every match.

there are /rolls in HA, and in GvG.

consider the possiblity in HA, 90% of the teams run a stream lined build. out of that, most of them will be some sort of spirt spamming holding.

when you get as far as courtyard, two teams running an identicle build, after 15 mins of fighting and no deaths, often teams just /roll and say gg.

rank died with iway
the hero title (though the same thing) died with heroway
champ title became less respected after the bspike/sf weekend


and now, you are saying that the commander title, the title which proves ownage over heros is farmable? oh no, dear god we cant let this happen to the commander title. /sarcasm

i personally never did hero vs hero, the idea seemed lame.

I thought hero battles were a nice way to get players to think about how their profession and the build they are using can work well with other professions and their builds.
The main guild wars site is pushing the knowledge of group synergy out there and I felt that hero battles were a nice way to allow people to explore that.
It would be nice if hero battles helped people learn group synergy and if that involves sweetening the pot and making it grueling for a roller to get anything out of it, then do it!

which is why anet put in a ladder to HA

you must win 5 times in RA to get TA
then win 5 times in TA to get HA

i believe if your new, and doing the RA/TA to get to HA, youll learn about team builds.