Balthazar's used to be my favorite, but I have just started to love Dwayna's.
I don't see how rending sweep is better than AoG, AoG is unavoidable enchant removal that is used every time you use a skill. Rending sweep only works if the person his hexed, and you have to wait for it to recharge.
Most useful and useless God Form?
Jegred2
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solus_the_Deadly
Bathalzar Dervish can charge into battle and completey wipe out any Minion Master or Ritlust you met in Pvp.
So can a Dervish sensible enough to bring Heart of the Holy Flame/Judges Insight along with any of the other forms. The difference is Lyssa could then walk up to the MM and slash it to pieces before its finished casting its 2s spell.
Not to mention its great use for Pve. You become a Very pwoerful tank, extremly fast and dealing holy dmg, you encounter quite a few units who take double damage from this.
Whirling Charge? Harrier Haste? Heart of the Holy Flame? Judges Insight?
People must remember having a Massive armor and speed boost which can last over 70 seconds is a huge bonus and should not be over looked.
Just a shame that outside of normal PvE you will never actually need to be chasing after something for 79 seconds or to be tanking for 79 seconds. Hell, you don't really need to chase them for 20 seconds if you don't waste the skills till you need em. As far as PvE goes, Lyssa all the way.
hondy
If anyone cared to notice about there coments on 1v1 with a deverish form, balthazar's could simply beat each of them. That is of course if were using the basic aspect of hitting them with a sythe. The +40AL for the form actually excists! Wearying strike with the melandru form is a fantastic combo but I fail to see how useful it will be once your form has been disabled.
No-one should be entirely relying on the forms for there builds since you cannot maintain them 100% of the time meaning there is a flaw in your build. My most used form is lyssa simply because I'm that type of damage player, also it means by build doesn't have to be entirely useless when I don't have the form activated, just more useful when it is.
I'm not much of a Grenth fan due to the fact that I like to play so I have an assured usefulness, I'd much rather bring a form that can be useful regardless of what I'm versing, since I might not be facing enchantments every single time I play with it. However I would activate it anyway because it makes my character look taller and cooler :P.
Dwayna I never really feel I need. I'm willing to experiment and see how I can make it work it more offencive builds because that can cover a lot of defence alone, regarding the fact I won't have it activated the whole time.
Melandru I love simply because it's such a solid defender, it renders one of the assassins greatest weapons, quick condition infliction, useless. Unless of course a fragily mesmer is present. I'm not sure if many people understand they aren't actually "immune" to conditions, just the duration is reduced to zero.
I can't really say if there is a best of each of them because in there own right they can change the tides of a battle depending on what there versing and the build to follow it up.
No-one should be entirely relying on the forms for there builds since you cannot maintain them 100% of the time meaning there is a flaw in your build. My most used form is lyssa simply because I'm that type of damage player, also it means by build doesn't have to be entirely useless when I don't have the form activated, just more useful when it is.
I'm not much of a Grenth fan due to the fact that I like to play so I have an assured usefulness, I'd much rather bring a form that can be useful regardless of what I'm versing, since I might not be facing enchantments every single time I play with it. However I would activate it anyway because it makes my character look taller and cooler :P.
Dwayna I never really feel I need. I'm willing to experiment and see how I can make it work it more offencive builds because that can cover a lot of defence alone, regarding the fact I won't have it activated the whole time.
Melandru I love simply because it's such a solid defender, it renders one of the assassins greatest weapons, quick condition infliction, useless. Unless of course a fragily mesmer is present. I'm not sure if many people understand they aren't actually "immune" to conditions, just the duration is reduced to zero.
I can't really say if there is a best of each of them because in there own right they can change the tides of a battle depending on what there versing and the build to follow it up.
Thom Bangalter
This is one of those threads when you see how many people are terrible at the game.
If there was to be a worst one, it would probably be dwayna's, and it's not half bad either.
If there was to be a worst one, it would probably be dwayna's, and it's not half bad either.
Jegred2
lol, dwayna's avatar is awesome. The hex removal alone makes it worth it not to mention the health gain.
AoG is a bad PvE choice, but rocks for PvP.
All the rest have their merits
AoG is a bad PvE choice, but rocks for PvP.
All the rest have their merits
Dzus
I'm not wasting my elite slot on an avatar for PvE.
Narfolik
only avatar i rly use is Balthazar for running, and only if there is no need to take VOS, Grenth is somewhat usefull in pvp but if you dont manage to kill everything before it expires its like you didnt have it at all, so if you are taking it you have to kill fast but these days more and moer ppl dont use enchantments but preffer Rt spirits, what leaves u with a wasted elite spot, every1 killed monks before and a avatar that helps doing it isnt that much needed, you re probably better of with Reapers sweep
unlike in pve where your dmg isnt noticable(DoA) in pvp dervishes dmg outpot is huge, and you can do useful spells and self heal too, not harming dmg they do.
avatars are just nice for costume parties, but beacose they cant be always up dont have a big build potential
unlike in pve where your dmg isnt noticable(DoA) in pvp dervishes dmg outpot is huge, and you can do useful spells and self heal too, not harming dmg they do.
avatars are just nice for costume parties, but beacose they cant be always up dont have a big build potential
Skuld
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzus
I'm not wasting my elite slot on an avatar for PvE.
I'm with that.
Perma-avatar in PvE imo.
Perma-avatar in PvE imo.
Jegred2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzus
I'm not wasting my elite slot on an avatar for PvE.
what elite do you use on your dervish?
what elite do you use on your dervish?
CagedinSanity
Melandru did awesome when I scrimmage'd an unsuspecting alliance member who was a poison/burning arrow ranger. It fun to watch him run away.
I have Dwayna now, and so far I've only used it once versus the mesmers/degen team on the Zaishen challenge. Dwayna simply does what one or two monks can do better in a party. In 1v1 matchesm i imagine that Dwayna very well could be useful.
I've also slaughtered powerful degen builds with Lyssa. And I'm PvE, so that's no small feat.
I have Dwayna now, and so far I've only used it once versus the mesmers/degen team on the Zaishen challenge. Dwayna simply does what one or two monks can do better in a party. In 1v1 matchesm i imagine that Dwayna very well could be useful.
I've also slaughtered powerful degen builds with Lyssa. And I'm PvE, so that's no small feat.
Solus_the_Deadly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzus
I'm not wasting my elite slot on an avatar for PvE.
Wasting....?
jesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
Guys you have to realize, skill does not equal spell. Lyssa's Avatar works on any skill. You get bonus damage for hitting a ranger casting Favorable Winds, or an enemy warrior doing Power Attack. This is why Lyssa's is so incredibly powerful in PvE. It's fun to give your orders spammer Meekness as well.
Skuld
Eremite's and Mystic are 3/4, not half. I carry them in addition sometimes.. but you can't hit 1 sec casts without having v. fast reflexes.
CagedinSanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesh
Tingi
all spells are skills, but not all skills are spells
Turbobusa
depending on the zone, I would alternate between lyssa and dwyna.
obviously dwayna in hex-heavy area, lyssa elsewhere.
less usefull in pve? grenth
less usefull in pvp? balthazar...
obviously dwayna in hex-heavy area, lyssa elsewhere.
less usefull in pve? grenth
less usefull in pvp? balthazar...
jesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
Eremite's and Mystic are 3/4, not half. I carry them in addition sometimes.. but you can't hit 1 sec casts without having v. fast reflexes.
I realize that, but you can rarely actually hit something with Twin Moon at all. If you're lucky you'll strip your own order. That's why I don't take it most of the time. I use Zealous Renewal and a zealous weapon to use the attacks as soon as they're available. If what I remember is correct, an IAS will decrease the cast time for your faster attacks like Critical Chop, as well as your normal attack skills. The 3/4 second becomes less of a problem.
Thank you Tan, for saying what I was going to.
Thank you Tan, for saying what I was going to.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jegred2
what elite do you use on your dervish?
[skill]Vow of Strength[/skill] + [skill]Heket's Rampage[/skill]
SnarkFish
Quote:
Originally Posted by knives
I didn't mean to interrupt. It acts the same as AC but has shorter cast time, recharge time, and longer duration. The extra damage is totally irrelevant. Spells take 50% longer = twice as long, no?
no
100% longer would be twice as long
100% longer would be twice as long
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jegred2
what elite do you use on your dervish?
[skill]Ebon Dust Aura[/skill]
Perma blind FTW
[skill]Ebon Dust Aura[/skill]
Perma blind FTW
Shuuda
Don't forget about Zealous Vow, which I'm guessing would be awsome in PvE.
subjugatedcereal
Melandru killer: Fragility + Incendiary Arrows at 0 WS.
jesh
What a waste of an elite. Can you spell "downtime"?
Solus_the_Deadly
Quote:
Originally Posted by subjugatedcereal
Melandru killer: Fragility + Incendiary Arrows at 0 WS.
No, 34 damage per condition is not a effective counter. It work take around 20 conditions to kill a dervish in Melandru Form (saying the dervish is averaging 650-700hp)
NinjaKai
Truth is I like the elite forms. However, I think there are other elites at the Dervish disposal that can prove more effective. I mean with elite forms you aren't always using it, basically there always a gamble in PvE.
Sir Mad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jegred2
what elite do you use on your dervish?
In areas where the build works: [skill]Signet of Midnight[/skill] 
And yeah concerning the avatars, Lyssa is my favourite in PvE as well - I'd rather spend some points in Earth Prayers if I want more defense than take Balthazar.
And yeah concerning the avatars, Lyssa is my favourite in PvE as well - I'd rather spend some points in Earth Prayers if I want more defense than take Balthazar.
Saphatorael
/sigh at the purpose of this thread.
Why do people see the Dervish as a profession that can change into an avatar and kick bum?
Stop making these kinds of threads that narrow an entire profession down to 'a character that change into a nasty mofo', please.
But to not make this appear as only a rant-post (yet I'm hoping to see a lock):
Imo, all avatars have a use, and it depends on how you play the game.
Lyssa has a huge damage capacity (it's fun to deal 120+ damage without even using an attack skill), and doesn't see enough play imo, mainly because that potential is quite conditional.
Grenth... is powerful. Too powerful? People say yes, and I expect Anet to slightly have it changed during the test weekend. Let's just see how it'll turn out, but for now, it's capable of debilitating anything that relies on enchantments, which is why it sees quite alot of love.
Balthazar: overrated, yet not crappy. Worst of the avatars imo, instead of having a semi-constant speed boost you might as well take a snare (Reap Impurities will even be 'stronger' then), the bonus AL is useful in PvE, but even without it you can survive through use of a few enchantments.
Least fav for me.
Melandru: Very strong, as shown in the current metagame. Will likely get toned down, but it's by far the most useful in both PvE and PvP.
Dwayna: So-so, doesn't see alot of play, and I just don't see myself using it either. better forms (mainly for damage output), yet it's healing capacity shouldn't be overlooked, It'll take away alot of pressure that the monks in the team could have.
But i'd just take Reaper's Sweep over any of these.
Why do people see the Dervish as a profession that can change into an avatar and kick bum?
Stop making these kinds of threads that narrow an entire profession down to 'a character that change into a nasty mofo', please.
But to not make this appear as only a rant-post (yet I'm hoping to see a lock):
Imo, all avatars have a use, and it depends on how you play the game.
Lyssa has a huge damage capacity (it's fun to deal 120+ damage without even using an attack skill), and doesn't see enough play imo, mainly because that potential is quite conditional.
Grenth... is powerful. Too powerful? People say yes, and I expect Anet to slightly have it changed during the test weekend. Let's just see how it'll turn out, but for now, it's capable of debilitating anything that relies on enchantments, which is why it sees quite alot of love.
Balthazar: overrated, yet not crappy. Worst of the avatars imo, instead of having a semi-constant speed boost you might as well take a snare (Reap Impurities will even be 'stronger' then), the bonus AL is useful in PvE, but even without it you can survive through use of a few enchantments.
Least fav for me.
Melandru: Very strong, as shown in the current metagame. Will likely get toned down, but it's by far the most useful in both PvE and PvP.
Dwayna: So-so, doesn't see alot of play, and I just don't see myself using it either. better forms (mainly for damage output), yet it's healing capacity shouldn't be overlooked, It'll take away alot of pressure that the monks in the team could have.
But i'd just take Reaper's Sweep over any of these.
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphatorael
/sigh at the purpose of this thread.
Why do people see the Dervish as a profession that can change into an avatar and kick bum?
Stop making these kinds of threads that narrow an entire profession down to 'a character that change into a nasty mofo', please. QFT. There are so many more worthwhile elites to use on a dervish. The Avatar forms are a gimmick at best. Their long cool down makes them an unattractive choice for PvE play since you can't constantly use them.
Why do people see the Dervish as a profession that can change into an avatar and kick bum?
Stop making these kinds of threads that narrow an entire profession down to 'a character that change into a nasty mofo', please. QFT. There are so many more worthwhile elites to use on a dervish. The Avatar forms are a gimmick at best. Their long cool down makes them an unattractive choice for PvE play since you can't constantly use them.
Star Naiad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Str0b0
QFT. There are so many more worthwhile elites to use on a dervish. The Avatar forms are a gimmick at best. Their long cool down makes them an unattractive choice for PvE play since you can't constantly use them.
Why do you think they are called God forms and where is the fun if you can use it every 45secs?
Just have to activate the avatar the right time that’s when the fun begins!
I had so much fun with Melandru and that’s my Pick!
Just have to activate the avatar the right time that’s when the fun begins!
I had so much fun with Melandru and that’s my Pick!
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Naiad
Why do you think they are called God forms and where is the fun if you can use it every 45secs?
Just have to activate the avatar the right time that’s when the fun begins!
I had so much fun with Melandru and that’s my Pick!
Avatars=gimmick skill. My EDA build > ANY AVATAR BUILD!
Just have to activate the avatar the right time that’s when the fun begins!
I had so much fun with Melandru and that’s my Pick!
Avatars=gimmick skill. My EDA build > ANY AVATAR BUILD!
ensoriki
Avatars arent exactly a gimmick
its more so of having a minute of Eliteness...hence Elite skills
but ya balthazar SUCks if the holy damage was actually armor ignoring.......BROOOOOKEN
its more so of having a minute of Eliteness...hence Elite skills
but ya balthazar SUCks if the holy damage was actually armor ignoring.......BROOOOOKEN
Sir Mad
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoriki
Avatars arent exactly a gimmick
its more so of having a minute of Eliteness...hence Elite skills
but ya balthazar SUCks if the holy damage was actually armor ignoring.......BROOOOOKEN It's not broken, it works as it's supposed to. Skills directly causing holy damage are armor ignoring, skills converting your damage to holy ain't (JI, Heart of the Holy Flame, etc), but provide extra damage vs some creatures (skellies, anything else?).
And if your damage was armor ignoring with Avatar of Balth, that would be THE skill to nerf (you'd multiply your damage by almost 4 vs a ranger for example - a bit too much isn't it?).
its more so of having a minute of Eliteness...hence Elite skills
but ya balthazar SUCks if the holy damage was actually armor ignoring.......BROOOOOKEN It's not broken, it works as it's supposed to. Skills directly causing holy damage are armor ignoring, skills converting your damage to holy ain't (JI, Heart of the Holy Flame, etc), but provide extra damage vs some creatures (skellies, anything else?).
And if your damage was armor ignoring with Avatar of Balth, that would be THE skill to nerf (you'd multiply your damage by almost 4 vs a ranger for example - a bit too much isn't it?).
Shuuda
Lyssa now gets +20 energy, that gets 2 thumbs up from me, and dwayna does more healing and only costs 5e, much better now.
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoriki
Avatars arent exactly a gimmick
its more so of having a minute of Eliteness...hence Elite skills
but ya balthazar SUCks if the holy damage was actually armor ignoring.......BROOOOOKEN
Avatar skills are a gimmick, don't get me wrong they are a cool gimmick but a gimmick none the less. I can constantly use EDA, another elite skill, and because of the blind, experience nigh invulnerability versus melee and with reap impurities and mystic regen I can heal faster than any caster can damage me so long as I've got melee mobs around me. That's more than a minute of eliteness. The reason the avatars exist is to keep the dervish from being, as I saw one person in game put it " another wammo in a dress". they just aren't that useful in PvE. They have slightly more utility in PvP where you won't typically be engaging in extended battles or encountering a mob every thirty to forty five seconds. I was messing around in a 1v1 with a buddy of mine and Dwayna is nice versus mesmers and hex heavy builds. Melandru owned his ele with all it's burning. Honestly though since I capped EDA, yes I have ALL the avatar forms, I have yet to really find a use for the avatars in PvE aside from gimmick builds and the odd farmer here and there. I'm not saying the avatar forms suck, though some of them do, I'm just saying they have very limited utility versus the other elite skills in the Dervish arsenal.
its more so of having a minute of Eliteness...hence Elite skills
but ya balthazar SUCks if the holy damage was actually armor ignoring.......BROOOOOKEN
Avatar skills are a gimmick, don't get me wrong they are a cool gimmick but a gimmick none the less. I can constantly use EDA, another elite skill, and because of the blind, experience nigh invulnerability versus melee and with reap impurities and mystic regen I can heal faster than any caster can damage me so long as I've got melee mobs around me. That's more than a minute of eliteness. The reason the avatars exist is to keep the dervish from being, as I saw one person in game put it " another wammo in a dress". they just aren't that useful in PvE. They have slightly more utility in PvP where you won't typically be engaging in extended battles or encountering a mob every thirty to forty five seconds. I was messing around in a 1v1 with a buddy of mine and Dwayna is nice versus mesmers and hex heavy builds. Melandru owned his ele with all it's burning. Honestly though since I capped EDA, yes I have ALL the avatar forms, I have yet to really find a use for the avatars in PvE aside from gimmick builds and the odd farmer here and there. I'm not saying the avatar forms suck, though some of them do, I'm just saying they have very limited utility versus the other elite skills in the Dervish arsenal.
jeoliver
I am always using Lyssa and sometimes Dwayna. The most useless for me is Grenth, as I don't play pvp and I rarely find a good use for it in pve. I haven't really fooled around with Melandru much, the extra health and condition immunity is nice and all, but the energy cost isn't. I used Balth when I first got it, but dropped it soon after.
Mr_Cynical
Best: For PvP, definitely Grenth. FINALLY Anet come up with a decent counter for the uber-overused Bonder monks.
For PvE, I prefer Melandru, since it makes Chilling Victory etc. easier to trigger and conditions are very, very common in PvE.
Worst: They're all pretty good, but if I actually HAD to pick one I'd say Lyssa, just because its increased damage bonus triggers least often.
For PvE, I prefer Melandru, since it makes Chilling Victory etc. easier to trigger and conditions are very, very common in PvE.
Worst: They're all pretty good, but if I actually HAD to pick one I'd say Lyssa, just because its increased damage bonus triggers least often.
Effigy
Uber-overused bonder monks? lol?
Avatars are certainly not a gimmick, and I don't know where anyone would get that idea. They have a long cooldown, but they also have a long duration. And they can't be removed. And they completely destroy people. "Gimmick" implies that they have a narrow scope, which is most definitely not the case. Avatar dervishes are more flexible than most classes and can still function perfectly well out of their forms.
As to which forms are the best, it really depends on the context as others have pointed out. For PvP, observer mode will incontrovertibly show you that Melandru and Grenth are the best. PvE is a bit of a toss-up, but my money's on Lyssa or Balthazar.
Avatars are certainly not a gimmick, and I don't know where anyone would get that idea. They have a long cooldown, but they also have a long duration. And they can't be removed. And they completely destroy people. "Gimmick" implies that they have a narrow scope, which is most definitely not the case. Avatar dervishes are more flexible than most classes and can still function perfectly well out of their forms.
As to which forms are the best, it really depends on the context as others have pointed out. For PvP, observer mode will incontrovertibly show you that Melandru and Grenth are the best. PvE is a bit of a toss-up, but my money's on Lyssa or Balthazar.
Nimble Night
commenting only on pvp melandru and grenth are by far the most overpowered.
you have one player that cannot be spiked and canot suffer conditions so your blindbot goes down the drain, and another that rapes your preprotting, normally takking harriers grasp or crippling sweep so disabling your kiting and spamming wild blow to cancel your stances and monks simply cant keep up with the pressure. you need someone spamming draw all the time to allow your team mates to get away safley.
dwayna, balthazar and lyssa all tie and being poo
do you need to constantly remove hexes and give yourself tiny heals, not really you have monks with holy veil or divert?
you have other cheaper skills for speed boosts and do you really need +40 armour? no, unless u intend to tank the oposing team oO.
and lyssa you have just got to hope you face a team entirly comprised of casters? do you really need +10 energy?
you have one player that cannot be spiked and canot suffer conditions so your blindbot goes down the drain, and another that rapes your preprotting, normally takking harriers grasp or crippling sweep so disabling your kiting and spamming wild blow to cancel your stances and monks simply cant keep up with the pressure. you need someone spamming draw all the time to allow your team mates to get away safley.
dwayna, balthazar and lyssa all tie and being poo
do you need to constantly remove hexes and give yourself tiny heals, not really you have monks with holy veil or divert?
you have other cheaper skills for speed boosts and do you really need +40 armour? no, unless u intend to tank the oposing team oO.
and lyssa you have just got to hope you face a team entirly comprised of casters? do you really need +10 energy?
CagedinSanity
Whoo, found a use for Dwayna;
It's decent in Ab but I suggest Melan/lyssa in AB's.
but while I was treasure hunting in the noob islands, even those level 12-15's were crippling the bajesus out of me with hexes, so dwayna is awesome to use in those areas that are skale-heavy. (Good to use if you're helping out a friend or guildie in those parts.) Then again, Melandru is better because that disease is murder.
It's decent in Ab but I suggest Melan/lyssa in AB's.
but while I was treasure hunting in the noob islands, even those level 12-15's were crippling the bajesus out of me with hexes, so dwayna is awesome to use in those areas that are skale-heavy. (Good to use if you're helping out a friend or guildie in those parts.) Then again, Melandru is better because that disease is murder.
Coloneh
Avvys are really a gimmick. iv come to the conclusion that none of the avatar users have tried a decent dervish build using another elite. having an elite that is down for almost a minute and is a vital part of you build makes you a very unreliable teammate.