the charr and the searing

ok i knowthis might seem abit stupid but i was wondering about this, and i am sure it is not in the game booklet (plz feel free to correct me if i am wrong) and in prophecies when the searing happens the story line does not go into too much deatil about the 2 question i would hope to be answered.

1, where/how did the charr get the power to preform the searing?
2. wat exactly are those giant meteors/crystalines "things"

any insight would be appreciated and if do respond thank you for taking the time to.

hmmmm i dont find an exact statment but question 1. they just have elementalist and i guess they only used that cannon thing just because it was some type of ritual
2. its probably hot rock that froze over time....dont really know
and if u dident know they where the things that the charr shot at ascalon
you could see the outline in the cut scene looks just like them

To answer ur questions

*SPOILERS*
1. In 1 of the quest in the Realm of Torment, it involves the char in the titans. As u know from the titan quest and the shrine to the titans in Noloni Acadamy mish, the char worshiped the titans. As it turns out the Titans are in fact Abadons minions or posibly the 3 titan bosses from titan source (which u kill during the quest) or maybe are in fact generals as well like shiro and the lich. The titan showed themselves to the char and the char who always found power in fire saw the fiery titans and began worshiping them. The char listening to the will of there "gods" attacked the human kingdoms causing the searing and also the catclysm in Orr when they attacked it.

2. As for the crystals im guessing that those are a power granted to the char from abbadon to cause the searing

Edit: Changed the wording a bit concerning the 3 titan bosses as generals thats just speculation on my part

Nightfall is, as I see it, the conclusion and convergence of both the Prophecies and Canthan campaigns. This builds suspense in our anticipation of Chapter 4; for one, it'll be backtracking and explaining the history of Tyria, and I doubt little mention of Elona and Cantha will be made, thusly starting a brand new story (in the sense that it will not be connected to Cantha and Elona; Tyria and it's events past, present, and future will always be interrelevant to each and every expansion/campaign)
But one question that comes to mind for me is did the Mursaat recognize or worship the 5 gods? Did they fear the power of Abaddon and so guarded the Door of Komalie? I suppose they did since they sacrificed the Chosen on the Bloodstones, to both prevent the Flameseeker Prophecies from coming true (though they were not the Flameseeker) and to draw power fromt he bloodstones. If they used the bloodstones so they must have understood their history. So my question is: What was the Mursaat's purpose in coming to Tyria?

the charr worshiped the titan before they came into tyria it said they worshipd giant beast described as dragons or titans from the north

well, the crystals strewn around ascalon do look like the crystals in the dragons layre mission. and remember, glint wanted to defeat the mursaat, who wanted to keep the titans sealed in abbadons mouth. so could it be posible that glint works with titans, the charr, and the viser? remember, viser sent you to the desert to ascend and meet glint. and then the mursaat and the stone summit were working with the stone summit in thk. and that also adds the white mantle with the mursaat. so its possible that the mursaat were actually good, but because they worked with the white mantle they were considered enemies, as well as being told by the viser that they were bad.

The Mursaat and the Stone Summit weren't working together - there are multiple points, especially in Iron Mines, where the Summit and the White Mantle are fighting each other. Essentially, you have three factions - the Stone Summit and their slaves, the Mursaat and White Mantle, and the Shining Blade remnants and the Deldrimor Dwarves.

The Mursaat force attacking THK after you clear it of the Summit aren't there as reinforcements for the Stone Summit - they were attacking the keep for their own reasons. In fact, sometimes it is possible to get the Stone Summit forces in the first wave or two to get into fights with the Mursaat forces.

In a similar vein, Glint and the Seers are enemies of both the Mursaat and the Lich. They used the Lich to defeat the Mursaat, but afterwards they too sought to bring down the Lich and the released Titans.

the stone summit dident work with anyone because they dident like anyone but themselves they killed anything that came in contact that wasent in thier culture

and that thing about lich and glints sounds interesting mesmer in need, glint could be representing the north lands because dragons where described to be there and along the ways of lich and the proph they could have meet. Lich saw here powers and brought her to abaddon and there ya have it......but now that !!!!!!!NIGHTFALL END OF THE GAME INFO!!!!!!!!!!abbadon is dead she has no purpose to help him now, but that then confuses the purpose of her helping us, and why is she hiding in a grain of sand??? if you go to dragons lair the snake guy will tell you where she is....since we had to go threw the stages to get to her she might have been scared of something......yet you can kill her witch leads me to think she wont be part of the game but her brothers and sisters will......the egg in her lair......you can find one in anguish outside the portal, forget the name but its very dark outside. There is a egg like glints that produces light and i forget the effect.

*Major Spoilers*

In the sense of this, it can be possible that Glint was tainted by Abaddon, like Shiro, The Lich, and the Char. Though then again Glint being a Seer she wants the prophecies to come True.

What i think though is that Glint knew a lot of this stuff was gonna happen and knew that if the flameseeker prophecies didnt occur Abaddon might end of breaking free succesfully, instead of being defeated. Cause if Glint didnt send us to the Fire Islands the titans would have been released and eventualy there would have been nothing we the heros couldnt have done about it and might have gotten killed.

About the crystals, come to think of it it might be possible that Glint helped out in the searing? Just a maybe, but w/ out the searing there would be no flameseeker prophecies as the heros from ascalon might never have left. Thus never starting out on the path to eventualy defeat Abbadon.

Thinking on this it might be that Abbadon never caused the searing after all, he might have just sent the titans in to get the char to worship them and then attack Ascalon and kill the would be heros.

Glint seeing this intervines and causes the searing knowing that w/ out that Abaddon would be able to break free of his prison. But on a side note it looks like in the cutscene before the searing in pre it looks like the char are casting a spell, so it might be that Glint messed w/ there spell causing it to go horribly wrong, for the char and ascalonions, and thus causing the searing so the heros would eventauly set off on there quest to defeat Abaddon.

HeHe little contridictory of myself, but it does cover quite a bit of the sides

I think Glint knew about Abaddon from the start and that the flameseeker prophecies extended longer than we were led to believe. The reason for this is that the Forgotten are in the realm of torment and are also servants or somthing of Glint. So with this in mind either the Forgotten went against Glint if she did work behind the scenes slightly for Abaddon but the problem with that is that when we kill her we can talk to her in Droknar's Forge and she tells us where the titans are.

There was somthing else I was thinking about but I forgot what it was.

I see you thought of the same thing as me but with more detail.

now that i think of it the forgotten look like abbadons servents maybe the guy by the portal isent guarding it from abbadon but guarding it for abbadon. maybe abbadon sent his forgotten to guard glint from the discoverys people would make of her. The forgotten are even in the realm of torment....guarding abbadon. Ugh this is crazy i need to go look into this glint and forgotten thing

I Doubt the forgotten are working w/ Abbadon as in many of the quest in the Realm Of Torment and around the get to it in the Waste theres a lot of quest deatiling u working against Abbadon and his minions the Margonites, which u get from the Forgotten.

Also in the Realm of Torment the Forgotten give u quest to defeat the Margonites and also say or imply that the Forgotten along w/ other races in the torment are working against Abbadon.

As for y there in the Realm of Torment, from what i know u dont have to work w/ Abbadon to end up there. U can simply fight the Margonites or work for him unknowningly and be tainted. Why u and kormir get put in the Realm of Torment, being that both of u, have fought the Margonites.

Actually Kormir's there because she read the Apochripha(or whatever its called).

The Forgotten works for the Five Gods in creating the world. They retreated to the Crystal Desert where the Five Gods were once believed to have lived in the world, because humans took over and the Five Gods have already left the world. <- Straight from the GW Manual Scripts.

And as for why you end up in the realm of torment, the area where you fought Varesh, was the last place she needed to be to knock down the walls that held Abaddon captured. So after you killed Varesh, it was probably already too late to close the portals (remember the floor breaking up) so you got sucked into the Realm of Torment whether you liked it or not.

how do u know the magonites wherent good? They where imprisoned because of thier power and now they have excaped to stop abbadon and the realm has turned to torment.....magornites do attack anyone...but because they are stupid and wherent created to do anything but that

also id like to post a little organized short story

The invasion

The mountains are a blanket that the gods cover our eyes with, held there for wich are eyes are not ready to see...The trade route to the north lands was discovered and the blanket was lifted. The elonians could not believe thier eyes. They saw a scarce land of life. The poeple wondered of this land and many came to study the region.They uncovered a continental battle filled with torment. The battle unrapped questions though to never be answered. The battle explained a powerful force swiping the continent apart. The Battle was the begining of an invasion. The charr ran south.as south as they could feeling betrade by all around them, truating no one. The seer where wiped out 1 bye 1 , but there was a lucky surviver that fleed south into a cave. Glints race was also beginning to be wiped out but while all destruction was going on abaddon saw that face, he knew there was something special about her and captured her to make a deal. Eathier glint could serve for him for an eternity to save her race, or she could ruin it for everyone and kill every moving thing. She would not stand for it and got agressive thinking of the future of her new born. Abaddon begane to get nervous seeing the true power of glint. He then started a rampage to get her out of his way she saw her eggs being crushed, and let out a big roar clawing anyone in her way to get to her babys. Abaddon saw he weakness. He told glint that if she served him he would guard her and her eggs for until she died of age. The seer knew of the plans going on and had to help stop it. Glint sat back and watched everything unfold as abaddon wanted she did not say a word, help a single soul. Abaddon told her she had to lead the heroes of tyria into his trap so that he would have no threats for the rest of his life. Glint did so and watched abaddons plan break as the heroes defeated abaddons servent and his titans. Abaddon did not show any signs of change has he waited, and waited for them to vanish. Hes plan dident work and was cought off guard with little of an army as he fell to the heroes and all his power....knowledge was given away. As glint understood that abaddon was dead she still stayed in her grain of sand.....she dident move nor flee, she felt protected from those who would find her secrets, and those threats where givin in the future by not only the heroes, but the protectors of the world.
ya? lol.....add on plz add on, I did it because I though it was fun!

To ur questoin about the margonites - from what i know and information in game and in thes forums. The Margonites were humans to begin w/ and along w/ the elonions - who traveled w/ Turia Ossa - and also the ascalonions. These 3 factions traveled to the now desert. Except then it was an ocean w/ islands.

These 3 factions all contested in trying to gain the favor of the gods and eventualy failing. At the time the Margonites were and still are comparable to the type of people who believed in there god - Abaddon - so much that they would do anything, even killing.

During this time, the Margonites went on a holy quest in essense and went to war w/ the other factions, desecrating the temples of the 6 gods and only leaving shrines to Abaddon untouched.

This act brought the fury of the gods upon the Margonites and also upon the 6th god Abaddon, finaly ending in the climax of the 5 gods defeating Abbadon and inprisoning him in the Realm of Torment.

Also im guessing that about this time the Crystal Desert formed, and The Gods left Tyria anlong w/ the forgoten moving into the desert. I think for more than 1 reason though. 1 being as said in the manuscripts to get away from the humans, the other i think was to guard the gate to Abbadons realm which resides in the southern portion of the Crystal Desert.

Most of this info is based on quest and mishs in Prophecies and NightFall, also in the handbooks as well. Of course a bit of speculation is involved, naturaly


At ur story, id have to say rly good job there , could use a bit of gramer work and paragraphs always help other than that its good, kinda missing a bit of what happens in the desert though.

About glint in the story thats a nice way to look at it never rly thought of it, kinda hits the middle ground of her being good or allied w/ abbadon.

According to ur story, if u think about it would mean that Glint told u all this stuff and pretty much guided u to the defeat of the Lich, because Abaddon told her to, thus causing u to eventualy end up facing him in the end. Though i think his defeat was a miscaculation as in his mind he is a god, right? And mere mortals cant defeat a god. Also this fits into the fact that everything that happend in the 3 chapters was all a masterplan of abbadon.

Not necassarily. She can still project her image after Dragon's Lair, which implies that if you kill her, there is still some part of her consciousness still able to act in the world.

It may be that she's a ghost, or it could be that one of her Forgotten attendants resurrects her after the players leave. Or, for the conspiracy-minded, the Glint we see may not even be the real Glint, instead being another aspect with a greater concentration of her power than the others.

You don't kill Glint in the Dragon's Lair mission, you only defeat her.

What bothers me about the Charr is how they got to Orr? Did they magically teleported there? I'm sure they destroyed most of Ascalon but there's no way they got to Orr from Ascalon. And if Kryta did manage to push the Charr away, then they shouldn't reach Orr. Unless they all decided to attack each kingdom in seperate armies.

Okay, most of the info i have i got from Guildwiki, and my in game expeirience.

Charr Worship Titans
Titans=Abbadons servents
Vizeir=abbadons servent
margonites=Abbadons army
forgotten=Glints servents and gaurds
Mursaat=trying to stop abbadon from releasing the titans(kinda good but the Vizier tells you to kill them.)
Mantle=worship Mursaat

Abbadon created the titans and gave magic to the charr, which caused them to invade te human kingdoms. they were pushed back out of Kryta and Orr, so they turned to ascallon. the titans gave them the magic for the searing. the crystals are the projectiles that the charr rained down on ascalon.

Hope this helps

-Illithen

the charr got the power of the Searing presumable by the Titans (ie Via Abaddon), They Sacraficed a Moa bird in Pre and scouted out Ascalon and part of there planning (presumably the moa bird had some kind of magical effect although this may not neccarily be the charrs work, and the scouting were to plan there attack once the wall falls to defeat Ascalon quickly which they pretty much did).

The Charr used there Fire powers at the Temples (as seen above the wall in Pre and a similar one in the Flame Temple Corridor) to summon the Giant Metoer shower, presumable by combineing their Fire Powers to Perform a Massive feet at the suggest of the Titans. The Crystals are the Core of These Metoers that remain where they impacted Ascalon. I would imagine they are made from Jade, Jade being a key thing Abaddon likes to use, as seen in the Jade Wind, the Amount of Jade used in contruction of architectre by the evil forces and possibly by the Jades themselves (although this connection is yet to be full revealed)

Glints Crystals i would guess and say are the opposite of the Jade crystals, they would be infact made of Lodestone. (hence why crystal units drop enchanted lodestone and not Enchanted Jade.

ok i would give references and all that but i am really tired and all,

as far i know, the forgotten were created by the gods, if they worked with glint then i would presume glint was a servent of the 5 good gods, unless of course she tricked the forgoteen ect ect but lets not start a anti-glint / demonic dragon club here na joke if u want to fine by me.

i still have to wonder, the flame seeker prophecies predicted that, the 'chosen' would bring down the mursaat (correct me if i am wrong) thus to mursaat used the bloodstones etc to prevent it, does this mean, that the gods either knew wat was going to happen before it did and placed glint there, or did they only place glint into the story after the mursaat started placing their hands around tyria, the latter theory seems highly unlikely as the gods had alreadly left tyria LONG ago at this point, so this leads to even MORE questions , wow see wat happens when GwG places a lore forum! , (na i love this forum its amazing really)

but then wat further perplexes me is that after u asceneded glint told you to go and save the remaining shining blade, but after you save them the vizier takes over, now why on earth did glint not intervine surely she must of recognised something was really off with this running around barking orders to take down the mursaat and to open the door of kamalie, and surely glint should of realized since she has been around for a long time that the vizier could not possibly be who he claims to be as he was the 1 who invoked the spell that destroyed Orr so many years ago yet she still did not intervine and let thing tumble into choas, this actually does kinda relate to u guys saying glint could of been "corrupt" (wow this is abit much) though i doubt in in my personal opinion i respect and do achknowledge the beliefs and facts presented by the other members.
to further complicate things though in wiki it does state that the searing was due to a spell invoked by it i think that funny char leader u kill in nolani academy at the end of the mission something burntfur or something like that o well, it is a possibility that abbadon was involved in this as it was a very unatural feet even for the char ( or should i say espicially for the char ) but wat happens then is that it leaves the question fo wat on earth could abbadon gain from destroying ascalon!?!

as far as i know the margonites were normal humans who lived during the age of the six gods, i am sure i read a thread somewhere else about the debate of weather the reason they went to war was due to ,.... or to ..... but let not go too deep into that just yet

in the trial for ascension it involves u going to "purify" urself of all the sins u have done etc now where alot of people are not sure is did the margonite seek to ascend to gain the forgivness of the 5 other gods of choosing abbadon over them or was it to try to "invade" the realm of the gods in the name of abbadon all i know is that they never did ascend to ya,..

i think wat is happening here is the typical lore fanatic disease where we suddenly realize "hey the story has alot of things left unanswered!" and for my part on it i think it is really nice that we can get togather and discuss such things, plz i would like to hear more people opinions about wat they believe happened this was just my opinion so dont go taking this as actual fact though of course some things are most probably true.

if i have offended anyone in this post plz forgive me i did not do so intentionly so plz dont feel offended, thank for tanking your time to read my post and thank you for all the contribution you all have added so far it is really nice to have a good discussion like this after you read the other posts where every is like "your noob so shut up"

Essentially, I can think of two good reasons why Glint would allow the heroes to be duped by the Vizier without being evil:

The first is if, by her judgement, the Vizier opening the Door at some stage was inevitable (at least by the time you meet her). Without the help of the heroes, the Vizier may simply be able to, eventually, bury the Mursaat on the Ring of Fire under a pile of undead. Allowing the heroes to be duped also puts the heroes in exactly the right place in time to stop him.

The second is simply that she saw the defeat of the Mursaat as being worth the risk of the Vizier winning. Yes, from our viewpoint of knowing who the Vizier worked for and what his goals, and his master's goals were, this is hard to understand - but possibly what the Mursaat would have done without the Flameseeker Prophecies would have been worse.

SPOILER:

Actually, there's also a third option: Maybe she knows exactly what's going to happen, and it's all a plot to get Abaddon replaced. Essentially this is a scaling up of the first option above: Allowing the bad guys to almost win faster, but in such a way as to set them up for the fall.

thnks for that, some interesting point of views, though i know glint in on the "good" side, i cant help but get the feeling she could of let the us in on much more than she did and still go away with saving the world etc, but o well she will always be 1of the most talked about dragons in guild wars

Well if you think about it if she had of told us alot more Tyria may of been worse.

My interpretation of her telling us more:

If she had of told us about the true nature of the Vizier we would of wasted no time killing him. Then the Mursaat would not have to worry about the Flameseeker opening the door and could of turned on the humans.

The White Mantle would probably be in full operation aswell.

The Stone Summits leader Dagnar Stonesplitter may still of been around and the Stone Summit may of gained a upper hand on the Dwarfs of Deldrimor. The Ring Of Fire would of still been in action and the Door Of Komalie would remain ready to be broken into.

Tyria would be in its orginal state.

When she doesnt tell us more than we need to know:

We continue on through the ranks of the Mursaat heading towards Thunderhead Keep. We kill Dagnar Stonesplitter and take Thunderhead Keep back which is a blow to the Stone Summit.

We arrive on the Ring Of Fire Island Chain and proceed to deal the final blow to the White Mantle by killing three key council members (remember we killed Confessor Dorian in Thunderhead Keep)

We go on to fight the Mursaat further and break through the fortress defeating the Mursaat. After breaking the seals to the Door Of Komalie we unleash the Titans and eventually kill the Lich whilse recharging the batteries once and for all and closing the Door the final time before the volcano erupts.

Then we go against Titans,stop them and defeat the last of them along with many powerful Charr in Dragons Gullet.

This restores peace to Tyria.

Of course thats just my theory on what could of happend had we been told alot mroe than we needed to know.

Does everyone recall the Oracle from Matrix, asking Neo would he break the glass if she hasn't told him?
And an older story, about Oedipus? His parents were told by an oracle that their son will kill his father and marry his mother, so they ordered their servant to kill Oedipus, but instead he was given to a shepard and rised by his family. When he matured, he met (annother? this is irrelevant anyways...) oracle who told him same prophecy - because he belived the shepardshis are parents, he left who he thought was his family. On his way he killed a man during an argument (road violence... the problem was, who should cross first ^.^), who was King of Troy, Oedipus real father. When he reached Troy, he defeated Sphinx thus saving the city and was given the hand of the queen of Troy - who was his mother. Thus, the prophecy was fullfilled,
There are many, many more myths about how running from one's destiny actually pushes peopleon their trail - this may explain why Glint acted like she did.


But other things puzzle me more: I see many things very disturbingly alike between the Crystal Desert and destroyed Ascalon. First of all, crystals - I'm sure it has been mentioned before in a thread about Glint: crystals in Ascalon are disturbingly similar to the ones in Glint's lair. What's more, there are corpses of ascalonian soldiers in her lair, and... does anyone remember the giant skeletons one comes across while exploring northern parts of post-searing Ascalon? They are also disturbingly similar to ones found on the desert.
To make it short, one of my guesses is: same that happend to Ascalon, happend to the place that is the desert now. It's sands are supposed to be tiny grains of crystal; sand comes from erosion of bigger rocks, why can't a crystal sand come from erosion of bigger crystals?
And since the Searing was caused by Abbadon, if same happend to the Desert, this would most probably be his doing as well.

Before Nightfall I used to think that Glint wasn't the good one she told us she is, but in the Real of Torment we clearly see The Forgotten - her allies and helpers - fighting Abbadon, so it's unlikely they - and the dragon - would aim for freeing him through the Gate of Komalie (tho 'unlikely' does not mean 'impossible' :>).

So who is the villain, except for Abbadon and his muppet, Vezir?... The Mursaat try to keep the Door sealed as well. Of course the common enemy does not always make people friends - even if both Glint and the Mursaat were opposing the Abbadon, they might have some old grudges that would keep them enemies. And The Forgotten most certainly have met the Mursaat before - if you pay closer attention to the Enchanted forces that accompany them at the Desert, you see that they bare striking resamblence to the Mursaat (note the feet, the mask and the 'wings' on the back) which, at least for me, is unlikely an accident.
There are at least three types of creatures so far we might describe as "enchanted armors" - the enchanted on the desert, Shiro's constructs and jade armors. We know constructs are pieces of armor powered by bound souls (and they drop soulstones - probably what makes them going; it's similar to Jewish golem myth actually - a magical piece of something powers a non-living thing, makes it alive and OBEYING their creator's orders). The Enchanted are found fighting alongside with the Forgotten and they drop Forgotten seals... My guess is, they are Forgottens' 'golems' as well, not allies per se, but slaves like Constructs to Shiro, made of remains of Mursaat. And desacration corpses/remains aint an obvious thing to do to an ally or friend, is it? Thus I'd vote for them being long-time enemies.
But it still does not make the Mursaat evil. Not only they try to keep the Door sealed (we might not like the fact that they sacrifice people on the Bloodstone, but they do keep the Titans closed, don't they? there are multiple philosophical systems that would justify their actions, like utilitarianism) - they don't seem to fail under Abaddons corruption: have we met ANY Mursaat in the Realm of Torment? We meet the Charr, even the Forgotten who were tainted. Not a single Mursaat.
To expand the golem-thing, and to ask even more questions, let's focus on the Jades for a bit: if we agree that 'golem-like' creatures are slaves bound to the races/masters that controll them, and if we take a closer look at the Jades: their heads do bear a strong resamblence to Margonite masks and Abbadon's statue. Of course this might be accidental, but taking into consideration that Mursaat guard the door to the realm where Abbadon and his followers dwell, this option is not at all that probable. More probable - at least for me, and despite how ridiculous it might seem at first - would be that what powers Jades are bound Margonite souls.

The theories I propose might not give a lot of anwsers - basicly they give no anwsers at all ^.^ But I think they are at least worth consideration.
What could happen to the Desert that what was there before would be destroyed in a way Ascalon was (probably by Abbadon as well)? Well, Mouth of Torment isn't that far away, maybe it happend during the battle between Abbadon and the Five Gods? But still, where do those giant skeletons come from... And who are the Mursaat apart from the fact that they are opposed to both Abbadon and the Forgoten, as it seems?

Maria Moon, I think the question "What would Abbadon gain by destroying Ascalon" was anwsered in Nightfall, in one of the Torment quests: the Charr invasion, having reached Orr, made Vezir use the spell he used and thus fall to Adabon.

so im thinking theres just basically 3 sides:
glint with:
forgotten
humans (us)
dwarfs
shining blade
good dwarfs
then abbadon with:
viser
charr
titans
margonites.
Next:
mursaat
stone summit
white mantle

Mabey its all just Glint's version of TV . Hey, what ELSE would you do if you were a 1000 or so year old dragon? I doubt Abaddon would be able to find/kill her...after all, shes got a lair in a sand grain, and could probably just fly off to HoH...

A few observations of mine to add. The Char do indead whorship the Titans as gods. But the Titans abbadon the Char as useless in NightFall (actualy not sure if they did that before or during NightFall as that is when we find out they abbandoned them). In the Guild Wars lore it is said that the Char invaded the human kingdoms when they were driven out of their homeland by and "Uknown force", We might meet that force in the next chapter as that is a big cliffhanger in itself. As far as Glint goes she is the one that foresaw the Flameseeker Profecies.
If you have played the original Profecies campaign, then you will know that there was a lot of deception going on behindf the sceen's, and it is truly hard to tell exactly who is goodand who is baduntil the very end, where a lot of things finaly make sence.

Mega Mouse

Sorry I do not mean to Flame anyone these are just my observations

Close enough. The mursaat/white mantle and the stone summit weren't allies, though - we see groups of them fighting each other in Ice Caves of Sorrow (where a White Mantle group and a Stone Summit group are exchanging artillery fire until you capture the latter's catapults and use them to set of a dolyak stampede that tramples the former's artillery) and Iron Mines of Moladune (where you run past or fight through a couple of battles between White Mantle and Stone Summit forces). The Mursaat are clearly independent; the Stone Summit appear to be, but their "Great Destroyer" may well be another name for Abaddon or one of his creatures or allies. It would explain how the Lich got his hands on Rurik's body. Heck, maybe Dagnar got corrupted just like Khilbron and Shiro - although this theory is weakened by the lack of Stone Summit Dwarf souls in Torment (unless I just haven't seen them yet) - although it could be that they follow one of Abaddon's allies such as Menzies and thus end up joining their forces elsewhere rather than ending up in Torment.

SPOILER

Given that Abaddon seems to be receiving assistance from Dhuum and Menzies, I'd probably organise along the lines of agents of the True Gods and the Great Dwarf, of Abaddon and his allies, and independant:

True Gods:
Glint:
-Forgotten
-Seers
-Brotherhood of the Dragon (allied; note alternate theology)
Humans:
-Shining Blade
-Sunspears
-Order of Whispers
-Most human nations
Dwarves (allied; note alternate theology)
Elonian Centaurs and Angchu Tengu (possibly)
Abaddon and allies:
Dhuum:
-Terrorweb Dryders
-Banished Dream Riders
-Emissaries
Menzies:
-Shadow Army
Abaddon (Direct Control):
-Torment Demons
-Margonites
-Graven Monoliths
-Titans (and, through them, Charr)
Abaddon (Through Varesh):
-Kournan military
-Allied Corsairs, heket, and other poor schmucks
Abaddon (Through Lich)
-Orrian Undead
Abaddon (Through Shiro)
-Afflicted
-Shiro'ken
Independant:
Mursaat and White Mantle
Stone Summit (presumed) and slaves
Palawa Joko and forces
Other smaller groups, such as Tyrian centaurs, non-Angchu tengu, naga, Echovald Dredge, and so on.

[/SPOILER]

Given that we've ended the trilogy of Abaddon's manipulations, chances are his faction is going to move out of the spotlight and another will arise - which may be expansion of one of the 'independant' factions or something completely new.

I doubt Glint and the lich were working together. Glint did make the Flameseeker Prophecies and the people who have read it (Mursaats and Lich Lord) knew a way to stop the prophecy from being fulfilled. The reason for the prophecy of being made is unknown at the moment.

Near the end of Prophecies, the Lich is known as the Flameseeker (Door of Komalie opened and the Titans were released), most of the Mursaat is dead, and the Chosen defeated the Lich hopefully to bring peace on Tyria. But there was no real conclusion to what happened afterwards except that the Titans rampaged all over and were defeated again.

Wasn't Abaddon's purpose was to destroy as much living thing on the planet so that he would be able to bring nightfall? The souls are needed to fuel his realm. I remember the arguement with one of Dhuum's Lords and the Lich about why the souls given to Abaddon are taking so long. And the Terrorweb Dryders would only listen to Dhuum. Basically, the more people that Abaddon kills the more souls he gets which will make him stronger.

I think Glint didnt tell us everything because there was a greater good behind it. If you think about it everywhere is better off due to the actions of the heros. If they had know more than they did things would not have played out how they did and chances are thing would have been much worse off

Tryia:
The White mantle have been crippled with there hold over the Kingdom of Kryta enabling the Royal family to be restored.
King Adelburn has become a better ruler again due to the loss of Rurik and the Titan threat.
The Stone Summit leader has been killed and there forces have taken a huge blow.
The Shining Blade have been saved from annhilation

Cantha:
The emporer was saved
The luxons and Kursicks put aside there difference to unite against a common foe
The Dragon Kuuvaang was freed from evil influence

Elona:
The Ascension of Kormir to godhood
Removing the taint of Abaddon

etc. etc.