Ranger Problems, Help O.o

I R Chewy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

Pirate Raid [ARGH]

R/Mo

28 Dec 2006 at 01:47 - 1

There's many flaws in a new build, they say. Well, i've been running this build for a very long time.. it's my custom one. Nobody have heard of it until now, and i need major help.

My build is as follows..

10 Expertise.
10 Wilderness Survival.
15 Marksmanship.

i currently have 35 energy, which runs out WAY too fast. i need help on energy management. my current skills -

Read the Wind. (i use dragos flatbow.)
Poison Arrow. {E}
Marauders Shot.
Savage Shot.
Hunters Shot.
Lightning Reflexes (for increased attack speed, and in certain cases, dodging).
Troll Unguent.
Whirling Defense/Ressurection Signet/Rebirth (for GVG, TA and RA)

i currently use Radiant Primeval armor. I have had no problems with this build killing one person, but against more than 2 i have energy problems and often find myself kiting.

Please, help is very appreciated

Program Ftw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Carebear Club [wuv]

28 Dec 2006 at 02:44 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by I R Chewy

Ok, let's start off with Expertise:
Read the Wind. 5 energy
Poison Arrow. {E} 5 energy
Marauders Shot. 10 energy
Savage Shot. 10 energy
Hunters Shot. 5 energy
Lightning Reflexes. 10 energy
Troll Unguent. 5 energy
Res Sig

With Expertise, the cap for 10 energy skills (4e) is at 14 Expertise.
So I would rewrite your build, with these attributes:

12+1+1 Expertise
9+1 Marksmanship
9+1 Wilderness

If you're desperate to really have a sup rune

:

12+1+1 Expertise
9+3 Marksmanship
9+1 Wilderness

Thanks,
Program~

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

28 Dec 2006 at 03:25 - 3

I would suggest that when you have energy problems to consult the chart on GuildWiki:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Expertise

Since most ranger skills cost either 5 or 10 energy, common expertise expenditures are usually 9, 12, 13, or 14.

Lyphen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

28 Dec 2006 at 05:41 - 4

If you have 13 expertise, the only way you'll run out of energy is through spamming of Savage Shot and 10e skill. At 13, 5e skills cost 2e, which is the amount you'll regen during a bow attack's downtime.

Orange Milk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Ganking, USA

Retired

28 Dec 2006 at 13:25 - 5

Raise your expertise to 12 atleast, 13 if you can.

Lower your WS points, Troll can be kept up at all times so the amount of regen isn't super important, Poison Arrow is spammable so who cares how long the duration is.

As far as taking on 2 enemies at once, Make sure you get them BOTH degening be fore concentrating on killing one, then when ever needed hit #2 with a condition arrow again as trhe fight continues.

Make sure you are useing a barbed or poison string. Try getting a Rotwing Recurve, +5 energy and lengthes poison duration(if duration is that important to you)

Keep kiting, always kite, winning or loseing the damg mitigation is important.

lilnate22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

Runners of Fury

W/Mo

28 Dec 2006 at 13:33 - 6

also since u haev poison.. thers no need for u to CONSTANTLY atack w/ skills....
take ur time nd use savage when needed. hunteres is a greeat skill to spam, since its low energy.

Program Ftw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Carebear Club [wuv]

28 Dec 2006 at 20:00 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilnate22

also since u haev poison.. thers no need for u to CONSTANTLY atack w/ skills....
take ur time nd use savage when needed. hunteres is a greeat skill to spam, since its low energy. Retard To English Translation:Also, since you have poison, theres no need for you to constantly attack with skills, feel free to take your time and use Savage Shot only when needed. Hunter's Shot is a great skill to spam, as it is a low energy cost skill, however try to use it only when the target is moving.Thanks,
Program~

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

28 Dec 2006 at 20:09 - 8

screaming shot is infinitely better than hunter's shot, and this is everywhere.

Dutch Masterr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Long Island, NY

Elite Knights [SWAT]

28 Dec 2006 at 20:56 - 9

use barbed arrows instead of read the wind to get poison+bleeding and use a recurve bow to be accurate. also use storm chaser instead of lightning reflexes. i use superior marksmanship, minor wilderness survival, major expertise and superior vigor. that leaves you with 450 health and allows you to put 12 in expertise, 10 in wilderness and 15 in marksmanship. 12 expertise is important because it cuts down skill energy cost by half. (10 energy skill=5 energy used). many people think the expertise break is at 13, but i did alot of testing and it is in fact at 12.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

28 Dec 2006 at 21:13 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

screaming shot is infinitely better than hunter's shot, and this is everywhere. Umm, no?

Screaming Shot is twice the cost, in exchange for the easier bleed. Hunter's Shot deals a longer lasting bleed. Screaming Shot deals more damage. Hunter's Shot recharges faster. They obviously are used differently. Saying one is better is like saying apples are better than oranges.

In a cripshot build, with lots of folks limping around, hunter's will likely hit, and there are plenty of moving (slowly) targets. If you are already having energy issues, using a pricier attack skill when a cheap one will do it seems silly.

Program Ftw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Carebear Club [wuv]

28 Dec 2006 at 23:27 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Umm, no?

Screaming Shot is twice the cost, in exchange for the easier bleed. Hunter's Shot deals a longer lasting bleed. Screaming Shot deals more damage. Hunter's Shot recharges faster. They obviously are used differently. Saying one is better is like saying apples are better than oranges.

In a cripshot build, with lots of folks limping around, hunter's will likely hit, and there are plenty of moving (slowly) targets. If you are already having energy issues, using a pricier attack skill when a cheap one will do it seems silly. If you are playing a Crip-Shot in a GvG, the chances are you will be called to gank. Archers don't move (often), Screaming > Hunter's.

Also, Screaming does higher dmg than Hunter's will, so you would have higher effect helping a spike with Screaming and Savage.

Thanks,
Program~

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

29 Dec 2006 at 01:36 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

29 Dec 2006 at 14:22 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

If you are playing a Crip-Shot in a GvG, the chances are you will be called to gank. Archers don't move (often), Screaming > Hunter's.

Also, Screaming does higher dmg than Hunter's will, so you would have higher effect helping a spike with Screaming and Savage.

Thanks,
Program~ Kindly point to where the OP said he was in GvG.

As for cripshot serving as ganker, it depends entirely on team structure; cripshot does a lot of suppression of melee damage at stand, and is sometimes used as a midline player for this reason. I've played both flag running cripshot and midline cripshot in builds; you don't tend to send the midliner off nearly as much, since there's likely another player who isn't serving as much as a defense/pressure element.

What I said was that screaming isn't "infinitely better", that the skills are situational. Congrats, you named a situation in which screaming is better. I believe that was my point, thanks for making it. Each has advantages, neither is purely "better" than the other. I used cripshot as an easy example of a playstyle in which it would not be hard to get the bleed for 5 energy rather than 10, and in which the 5 second recharge might be advantageous over the 8 second of screaming.

The OP was complaining about energy management - choosing between a 5 and a 10 energy attack actually does matter.

Program Ftw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Carebear Club [wuv]

29 Dec 2006 at 15:25 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Kindly point to where the OP said he was in GvG.

As for cripshot serving as ganker, it depends entirely on team structure; cripshot does a lot of suppression of melee damage at stand, and is sometimes used as a midline player for this reason. I've played both flag running cripshot and midline cripshot in builds; you don't tend to send the midliner off nearly as much, since there's likely another player who isn't serving as much as a defense/pressure element.

What I said was that screaming isn't "infinitely better", that the skills are situational. Congrats, you named a situation in which screaming is better. I believe that was my point, thanks for making it. Each has advantages, neither is purely "better" than the other. I used cripshot as an easy example of a playstyle in which it would not be hard to get the bleed for 5 energy rather than 10, and in which the 5 second recharge might be advantageous over the 8 second of screaming.

The OP was complaining about energy management - choosing between a 5 and a 10 energy attack actually does matter. Oh, kick me from Guild Wars, I suck at GvG.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

29 Dec 2006 at 16:39 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Oh, kick me from Guild Wars, I suck at GvG. If you can't be constructive, don't post. I know Ghostly Heroes is top 100.

I objected to the statement that Screaming is infinitely better, saying it's situational.

You disagreed, but by posting a situation in which screaming is better, which doesn't refute the point that the better skill is determined by the situation at hand.

Is it or isn't it situational? I think it is. I never said you suck, I didn't imply it. We're trying to help a player asking for advice, and writing off a useable skill doesn't seem smart.

Issac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Earthrealm

W/A

29 Dec 2006 at 16:53 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by I R Chewy

Ohh wow 35 ene thats quite alot. I only have 26 on my ranger and my expertise is same as yours and its not to bad. ANd I use Burning arrow and stuff. Try using you skills more wisely, that should help. And only use skills if there really needed.

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

29 Dec 2006 at 16:53 - 17

The OP does mention GVG/TA/RA but only in terms of the 8th skill slot but he does not mention the build context other than this. Based on what context we have we should assume for the purposes of the thread that this is for a 'general' pvp damage/degen build. The debate over screaming vs hunters is over right... since its not exactly to the point and started from the one inane post stating a fallible 'fact'.
The OP had a question about how to improve his energy management. The expertise going up to 12 or 13 would be the best suggestion for starters. Possibly the OP is skill spamming too much as well which can run you out of juice, and as Lyphen pointed out you can still run out of juice then if you over spam savage shot. I think the last option would be completely retooling the skillbar, which seems a bit overkill as the OP says it works fine for him. Pretty much 2 VERY valid suggestions have hit the thread and should there be further problems I'm sure the OP will post again, possibly in a new thread as this one seems to have served its purpose.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

29 Dec 2006 at 17:11 - 18

Sorry, you are right - I started by addressing a single post, my bad.

It seems like he wants to be dealing damage (15 marksmanship, Read the wind, IAS skill, fast RoF bow) as well as spreading poison, and it's more pressure damage than anything.

While the suggestion above to go to a 14 expertise, 9+1 marks, 9+1 wilderness does address the energy issue, it fails to do what the build currently does or seems meant to do, deliver damage via arrows.

I think the problem though is that you are straddling a line - you want to put poison out there, and have invested in Wilderness to do so, but have a massive investment in your bow, to deal damage. I suspect you will want to pick one or the other; if you are spreading conditions, going to a cripshot-type build, with higher expertise, the screaming/hunter's/barbed or some such will work well. Many builds designed to spread the love do so with a minimal 9 or 10 in Marksmanship, but crank their expertise. 14 would be a minimum.

If instead you wish to deal damage, go for damage. Using a 10 in Wilderness Survival for a Troll Unguent and an elite poison skill seems a bit much. I'd forget about it, and go with Marksmanship/Expertise. For RA/AB or when you can't rely on getting a heal you may want some for of healing, but you can always go R/A or R/D or something and pick up some healing that way. Troll Unguent in RA/TA just begs to be interrupted.

The build is just a little too unfocused. For personal protection a heal is a good thing, but you could get it from elsewhere if needed, and honeslty that poison isn't going to do that much - it's not covering another condition and if you are trying to deal bow damage it's not going to be spread around enough - or if you ARE spreading it around, your 15 marksmanship, which could be punishing in a spiking setup, is being wasted as easily healed damage spread among the enemy.

Choose whether you are a condition spreader or a damager would be my thought on it, then build from there.

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

29 Dec 2006 at 20:25 - 19

not criticizing you guys, sorry

just trying to improve flow in the right direction.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

30 Dec 2006 at 07:56 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

If you're desperate to really have a sup rune

12+1+1 Expertise
9+3 Marksmanship
9+1 Wilderness As a general rule, use the higher runes and mask on your highest attrib, for example:

Expertise 11+2+1 = 14
Marksmanship 10+1 = 11 or 10+2 = 12
Wilderness 10+1 = 11