Mind Burn Vs. Searing Flames-Which is Better?
Rangers Rock
As explained in the title, I want to know which of these are better. Both PvE and PvP. And if possible, post the cons and pros of the two skills. Then give your opinion on which of these skills are better to use.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
Searing flames is better. The end. No need to post pros and cons.
-.-
There is no comparison. Searing Flames just owns Mind Burn. Thread over.
Francis Crawford
Mind Burn might not be worth taking if it were a non-elite.
ubermancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
Mind Burn might not be worth taking if it were a non-elite.
He does raise an interesting point.
mage767
Well, like the others pointed out, SF is obviously way better than Mind Burn.
However...
If you take all the bad stuff (exhaustion and recharge time) away from Mind Burn...you get MIND BLAST! Yes, this new Nightfall spell (capped from Exuro Flatus) may actually be better than SF/GG combined. In addition, it gives valuable information about the enemy's energy level and you can use it to your advantage. Knowledge is power!
Imagine a fire elementalist (with enough points in energy storage) spamming this on other professions...energy management would never be a problem.
However...
If you take all the bad stuff (exhaustion and recharge time) away from Mind Burn...you get MIND BLAST! Yes, this new Nightfall spell (capped from Exuro Flatus) may actually be better than SF/GG combined. In addition, it gives valuable information about the enemy's energy level and you can use it to your advantage. Knowledge is power!
Imagine a fire elementalist (with enough points in energy storage) spamming this on other professions...energy management would never be a problem.
Seef II
Mind Blast is basically a free Flare, but if you're using it to deal damage, you get owned by high AL and are spending 100% of your time to punch out damage that isn't any higher than an autoattacking warrior. No disruption, no snaring, just... Flare.
SF has both beat by a pretty good margin.
SF has both beat by a pretty good margin.
mage767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seef II
Mind Blast is basically a free Flare, but if you're using it to deal damage, you get owned by high AL and are spending 100% of your time to punch out damage that isn't any higher than an autoattacking warrior. No disruption, no snaring, just... Flare.
SF has both beat by a pretty good margin. However, SF is rarely used alone all by itself, as otherwise, energy management problems would occur unless Glowing Gaze (GG) is used. SF alone is not a spammable spell.
Against a single target, if you add up the total cost of 2XSF followed by 1X GG and deduct the energy gained during the 9 seconds of execution, and perform the same for 4xMind Blast during the same period:
At LVL16 fire:
SF/GG Combo: 290 damage + burning (additional 126) = 416, 35 energy cost - 10 energy gain = 25 net energy loss
MB: 250 damage, 20 energy cost - 40 energy gain = 20 net energy gain.
Would you rather damage foes quickly with SF/GG and eventually run out of energy or think about the making the battle a test of endurance?
The quick and powerful energy renewal from MB makes it a formidable management skill that can be used to power more aggressive fire spells or relegated for secondary professions.
P.S. SF/GG becomes even more effective with Glyph of Lesser Energy, but then again, this could be used for other purposes in a Mind Blast build as well.
SF has both beat by a pretty good margin. However, SF is rarely used alone all by itself, as otherwise, energy management problems would occur unless Glowing Gaze (GG) is used. SF alone is not a spammable spell.
Against a single target, if you add up the total cost of 2XSF followed by 1X GG and deduct the energy gained during the 9 seconds of execution, and perform the same for 4xMind Blast during the same period:
At LVL16 fire:
SF/GG Combo: 290 damage + burning (additional 126) = 416, 35 energy cost - 10 energy gain = 25 net energy loss
MB: 250 damage, 20 energy cost - 40 energy gain = 20 net energy gain.
Would you rather damage foes quickly with SF/GG and eventually run out of energy or think about the making the battle a test of endurance?
The quick and powerful energy renewal from MB makes it a formidable management skill that can be used to power more aggressive fire spells or relegated for secondary professions.
P.S. SF/GG becomes even more effective with Glyph of Lesser Energy, but then again, this could be used for other purposes in a Mind Blast build as well.
Francis Crawford
I'd rather use SF/GG and not run out of energy, thank you very much.
Unless enchantment stripping is so bad that I can't keep Fire Attunement up:
2 SFs cost 20 net energy
1 GG returns 7 net energy
8 energy regens in the 6 seconds it takes to do all that (HSR and SQ aside).
Net loss of 5 energy in 8 seconds -- that's completely covered by GoLE, which is around 50 energy/minute.
Unless enchantment stripping is so bad that I can't keep Fire Attunement up:
2 SFs cost 20 net energy
1 GG returns 7 net energy
8 energy regens in the 6 seconds it takes to do all that (HSR and SQ aside).
Net loss of 5 energy in 8 seconds -- that's completely covered by GoLE, which is around 50 energy/minute.
Rangers Rock
But lets say, your enemy is immune to conditions(Avatar of Melandru for ie), Mind Burn would do much more dmg then Sf, since Sf only does its dmg if your foe is on fire.
AuraofMana
-can't wait for the nerf bat on SF and something with E/D Earth build-
But yeah, SF owns hands down.
But yeah, SF owns hands down.
Francis Crawford
The tricky thing about a Mind Blast build would be this -- for Mind Blast to be a powerful energy-creating engine, you need to have both Fire Magic and Energy Storage high. That reduces the possibilities for actually USING the energy for other purposes.
Hmm. It might be possible to ward somewhat effectively; at least, the wards would be up around half the time or better. Gaze of Contempt comes to mind too; ditto Plague Sending. Or monk condition/hex removal, although that one would be tricky to execute since you'd keep changing from ally to enemy targets and back.
Maybe Arcane Echo to drive the energy engine even faster? And since it's /Me, interrupts otherwise. Although the fact that you're spamming a 1-second casting time spell diminishes your ability to interrupt effectively. Whoops. At least you can spread around some Deep Wounds if you're /Me.
In any case, setting the attributes will be tricky, and might well be zone-dependent. (Unless we're talking PvP, where the idea might actually be stronger.) And for once a rune of Sup Energy Storage might actually make sense.
Hmm. It might be possible to ward somewhat effectively; at least, the wards would be up around half the time or better. Gaze of Contempt comes to mind too; ditto Plague Sending. Or monk condition/hex removal, although that one would be tricky to execute since you'd keep changing from ally to enemy targets and back.
Maybe Arcane Echo to drive the energy engine even faster? And since it's /Me, interrupts otherwise. Although the fact that you're spamming a 1-second casting time spell diminishes your ability to interrupt effectively. Whoops. At least you can spread around some Deep Wounds if you're /Me.
In any case, setting the attributes will be tricky, and might well be zone-dependent. (Unless we're talking PvP, where the idea might actually be stronger.) And for once a rune of Sup Energy Storage might actually make sense.
Francis Crawford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers Rock
But lets say, your enemy is immune to conditions(Avatar of Melandru for ie), Mind Burn would do much more dmg then Sf, since Sf only does its dmg if your foe is on fire.
Do you have any other examples in mind?
Dr Strangelove
Exhaustion makes mind burn totally worthless, nuff said.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers Rock
But lets say, your enemy is immune to conditions(Avatar of Melandru for ie), Mind Burn would do much more dmg then Sf, since Sf only does its dmg if your foe is on fire.
And Mind Burn just isn't worth using. Hell its only useful if you have more energy than them. And it causes exhaustion and is nothing overly special. You need lots more fire skills to do any real damage which brings your energy down lower.
Kijik Oni Hanryuu
Mind Burn isn't a complete loss, when combined with a couple other skills to use with it that are fast casts(not flare -.-) then the exhaustion doesn't work to well and you have an excellent single target pressure and spike if done correctly.
Rangers Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
Do you have any other examples in mind?
Frigid armor is another one... Still, if they are immune to burning, it is better to bring Mind Burn, since you do will almost always do both damage. The burning effect will not work if they are immune to conditions.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers Rock
Frigid armor is another one... Still, if they are immune to burning, it is better to bring Mind Burn, since you do will almost always do both damage. The burning effect will not work if they are immune to conditions.
If they were immune to burning i wouldn't be wasting Exhaustion on doing something i could just as easily with a Fireball.
LightningHell
It isn't about Mind Burn costing wayyyy less than Searing Flames, it's about Searing Flames being able to output more damage.
Symbol
Mind burn is bad because almost half the damage is through a long duration burn, which is a) easily removed, and b) doesn't really fit the frontloaded damage niche the spell is supposed to serve.
Frankly, I think exhaustion needs to be removed. Given that the extra damage and burning is conditional the skill is hardly overpowered even if you could spam it.
Frankly, I think exhaustion needs to be removed. Given that the extra damage and burning is conditional the skill is hardly overpowered even if you could spam it.
Elements_of_Galaxy
If Mind Burn was Non-Elite, you can you Second Wind to gain energy..
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by mage767
Would you rather damage foes quickly with SF/GG and eventually run out of energy or think about the making the battle a test of endurance?
Few mobs I've met so far (my Elementalist is in Vabbi, although, ironically since he's a Canthan character, that's the furthest he's got comparatively in the three campaigns) survive long enough to make me run low on energy with SF/GG and support skills. If they don't strip my Fire Attunement and I play smart, I usually stay within the top third of my energy bar.
Meanwhile, since the enemy is going down quickly, that's less energy the Monks are spending healing, less energy the MM is expending on keeping the swarm up, less energy that the other party members in general are using, and, most importantly of all, less chance that things are going to go pear-shaped leading to friendlies dying in the meantime. Endurance in a fight is fine, but it can be better sometimes to just kill the enemy quickly and accept some recovery time afterwards. And one thing that can be kept in mind is that you don't need to keep casting spells throughout the encounter - especially if you don't have a time limit, it's often worthwhile to sit and wand and recover energy while the rest of the party is mopping up a defeated foe.
That said, I haven't tried out Mind Blast yet, so there might be builds using Mind Blast as an energy engine that can match up to this capability and keep their energy high. So I'm aware that I'm speaking from ignorance, but I thought it was worth pointing out that energy endurance isn't the be-all and end-all.
Meanwhile, since the enemy is going down quickly, that's less energy the Monks are spending healing, less energy the MM is expending on keeping the swarm up, less energy that the other party members in general are using, and, most importantly of all, less chance that things are going to go pear-shaped leading to friendlies dying in the meantime. Endurance in a fight is fine, but it can be better sometimes to just kill the enemy quickly and accept some recovery time afterwards. And one thing that can be kept in mind is that you don't need to keep casting spells throughout the encounter - especially if you don't have a time limit, it's often worthwhile to sit and wand and recover energy while the rest of the party is mopping up a defeated foe.
That said, I haven't tried out Mind Blast yet, so there might be builds using Mind Blast as an energy engine that can match up to this capability and keep their energy high. So I'm aware that I'm speaking from ignorance, but I thought it was worth pointing out that energy endurance isn't the be-all and end-all.
Solus_the_Deadly
Searing Flames.
LoyalSoldier
Mind burn has been trash since day one. They tried to bring it out of the dumpster, but it is still sitting around on street corner. All the mind skills have been trash. The only one with remote usefullness was Mind Shock because it wasn't too bad for one person to carry it in an ele spike team, but even then it wasn't that great.
Thom Bangalter
Mind shock is really good. Mind burn is less good, and searing flames blows it out of the water regardless of what your actual bar may be.
Xpl0iter
once you hit gates of torment and higher, mind burn won't work on more than half of the foes. It is same for every mind skill out there.
As far as energy goes, you can maintain SF and GG along with fire attune for quite a while. The moment you hit GoLE, energy is no issue.
As far as energy goes, you can maintain SF and GG along with fire attune for quite a while. The moment you hit GoLE, energy is no issue.
Symbol
Mind shock is very good now for small scale battles. Mind burn is crap pretty much everywhere but RA, where it's mediocre.
Captain Arne Is PRO
The One That Gets Used Is Better.