Why are Paragons so disliked?
CagedinSanity
I have searched through some of the threads in this section. Many threads discuss builds, and often times there is a reply that compeltely shoots down the idea.
I made a Dervish recently, got her to a level 13 in a couple days. Normal PvE stuff. I got stuck at jokanur diggings (because it's hard to find a team there that doesn't suck) So I thought, "Why Don't I make a paragon? Just to humor myself."
A few hours later, my Paragon is a level 13 hulking tank of badass. With a customized Eshau's spear (I figured customizing it was a good idea, since I'll probably never be able to sell it, with the low demand of paragons and all...) and some decent spear skills (15 spear, i posted my build on the Build directory here.) I hit for some massive damage on PvE monsters.
A couple hours after that, a level 20. Blowing through primary quests and missions like nothing.
I have accomplished in a day that I couldn't do on my dervish in two-three days,
So I think say to myself, how and why are/were paragons so underestimated? I have yet to find an answer.
I made a Dervish recently, got her to a level 13 in a couple days. Normal PvE stuff. I got stuck at jokanur diggings (because it's hard to find a team there that doesn't suck) So I thought, "Why Don't I make a paragon? Just to humor myself."
A few hours later, my Paragon is a level 13 hulking tank of badass. With a customized Eshau's spear (I figured customizing it was a good idea, since I'll probably never be able to sell it, with the low demand of paragons and all...) and some decent spear skills (15 spear, i posted my build on the Build directory here.) I hit for some massive damage on PvE monsters.
A couple hours after that, a level 20. Blowing through primary quests and missions like nothing.
I have accomplished in a day that I couldn't do on my dervish in two-three days,
So I think say to myself, how and why are/were paragons so underestimated? I have yet to find an answer.
oinkers
Because in PvE there are only 1 or 2 good builds for a Para, and there are too many Paragons hanging around trying to make a team for missions. There's no point having 2 Para in the same team with Watch Yourself/GFTE/Theyre On Fire on top of each other - unlike monks where you'll typically need 2 each difficult mission.
I think buffing the party only goes so far in making a char. Adding animations to show the buffing works (like energy gains or health gains) might help in reinforcing the worth of the Paragon, but I seriously doubt that will happen as the animations used look like they haven't had much attention on them e.g. Focused Anger has no animations at all.
Once you reach DoA, you'll understand how little benefit the Paragon actually brings to the team. It brings so little, most teams prefer not to use a Paragon. For a supposed party-wide buffer, it speaks volumes as to how much depth the char has.
So if you have a Paragon, you'll find the early part of the game easy enough to get through, but you wont find many willing takers of Paragons in teams for the harder areas later in the game.
As for long term replayability? Playing a Paragon feels like I've got the foot off the pedal - a bit disengaged from the action compared to say, a nuker, or a monk or a tank up front. You're too busy micro targetting your allies to put refrains/echos on to enjoy the action. A bit like playing a rit minion bomber and micro targetting Death Nova on minions - you end up too hassled to really enjoy the quest.
I think buffing the party only goes so far in making a char. Adding animations to show the buffing works (like energy gains or health gains) might help in reinforcing the worth of the Paragon, but I seriously doubt that will happen as the animations used look like they haven't had much attention on them e.g. Focused Anger has no animations at all.
Once you reach DoA, you'll understand how little benefit the Paragon actually brings to the team. It brings so little, most teams prefer not to use a Paragon. For a supposed party-wide buffer, it speaks volumes as to how much depth the char has.
So if you have a Paragon, you'll find the early part of the game easy enough to get through, but you wont find many willing takers of Paragons in teams for the harder areas later in the game.
As for long term replayability? Playing a Paragon feels like I've got the foot off the pedal - a bit disengaged from the action compared to say, a nuker, or a monk or a tank up front. You're too busy micro targetting your allies to put refrains/echos on to enjoy the action. A bit like playing a rit minion bomber and micro targetting Death Nova on minions - you end up too hassled to really enjoy the quest.
Thom Bangalter
I like paragons for most mindless missions, particularly when I play warrior. If I could get someone to maintain strength of honor and judge's insight on me while GFTE! is up every time it's charged I'd be a happy man.
However, Oinkers touches on everything that fails them--a lack of viable elites hurts them quite a bit on the build versatility department.
However, Oinkers touches on everything that fails them--a lack of viable elites hurts them quite a bit on the build versatility department.
pingu666
just go command and take teambuffs only
think i run,
spear of lightning
focused anger
watch yourself
go for the eyes
antham of flame
stand your ground
never surrender
paragon reuseable res signet thingy
you can give the team +40al with watch yourself and stand your ground nearly continously. which halves most damage
i think most paragons ingame ive come across run a build dominated by spear, motivation or leadership, few have command
. they also dont pickup skills avalible later in the game too. :/
think i run,
spear of lightning
focused anger
watch yourself
go for the eyes
antham of flame
stand your ground
never surrender
paragon reuseable res signet thingy
you can give the team +40al with watch yourself and stand your ground nearly continously. which halves most damage

i think most paragons ingame ive come across run a build dominated by spear, motivation or leadership, few have command

clawofcrimson
Paragons interested me from the start..but I have to agree with the other posts....I have been trying pretty hard to come up with some good builds for the paragon in both pvp and pve
... the truth is... there is not much variety...
just go to wiki and see what "accepted" builds look like.... pretty bland
edit: this seems to be the general view...not that the basic setup of the paragon is disliked (armour, ranged etc..) its the skills that leave us wanting more... the second highest armour in the game, the high ranged attack speed, the ability to carry a sheild... these are well liked.... but the skills force you into pretty narrow builds...
and while I've found that the paragon has some valid skills to offer in less organized pvp and pve... when it comes down to it... the higher level areas/games do not favour paragons over the core proffessions...(same for the assasin... and sometimes ritualist and dervish) .... and I simply blame the skills set we paras have to work with...
... the truth is... there is not much variety...
just go to wiki and see what "accepted" builds look like.... pretty bland
edit: this seems to be the general view...not that the basic setup of the paragon is disliked (armour, ranged etc..) its the skills that leave us wanting more... the second highest armour in the game, the high ranged attack speed, the ability to carry a sheild... these are well liked.... but the skills force you into pretty narrow builds...
and while I've found that the paragon has some valid skills to offer in less organized pvp and pve... when it comes down to it... the higher level areas/games do not favour paragons over the core proffessions...(same for the assasin... and sometimes ritualist and dervish) .... and I simply blame the skills set we paras have to work with...
Mortanius
The spear mastery line is why I dislike them tbh.
I mean, sure the party wide buffs are nice, but the spear line is just disappointing.
I mean, sure the party wide buffs are nice, but the spear line is just disappointing.
CagedinSanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortanius
The spear mastery line is why I dislike them tbh.
I mean, sure the party wide buffs are nice, but the spear line is just disappointing. That's where I disagree. I got a little 4-hit combo all spear attacks, and they hit for some pretty heavy damage.
Luckily for me, I probably won't get to said "high level areas" for a long time. I have a level 20 tank I've had for 4 months and still hasn't gotten past Nahpui Corner (factions tank), And even when I past that, there's the temple quest I still need to do. These areas are pretty annoying to get through.
Same concept will happen with my Paragon, I'm willing to bet.
I mean, sure the party wide buffs are nice, but the spear line is just disappointing. That's where I disagree. I got a little 4-hit combo all spear attacks, and they hit for some pretty heavy damage.
Luckily for me, I probably won't get to said "high level areas" for a long time. I have a level 20 tank I've had for 4 months and still hasn't gotten past Nahpui Corner (factions tank), And even when I past that, there's the temple quest I still need to do. These areas are pretty annoying to get through.
Same concept will happen with my Paragon, I'm willing to bet.
pingu666
my NF enjoyment dipped alot at the end, and yep, nahpui quarter D:
strcpy
If I want to blow through a mission (so far, anyplace I can take henchies, only places I have left are unwaking waters and on in Factions) I use a build around a paragon. Two melee (in my case a Dervish and Koss), a prot monk, and a paragon (rest hench).
But then, it does suffer from the "only one effective build" syndrome and it is a "team" build in that my character and the rest of the heroes have to be built around it. I find it fairly effective even in Torment missions, Sorrows Furnace, and Tombs of the Primeval Kings.
Since it is the hero I don't really care if it is only one effective build as long as it is effective.
From what I've read my searing flames elementalist would do well with a "they're on fire" build, but she hasn't made it far enough yet to see. It will probably be some time before she does and the next skill balance will most likely totally change it anyway.
They also suffer from the Mesmer condition that if done really well the missions just go by very fast - it is not a direct damage or heal. Too many need that to know if a party member is being useful. Plus it is easy to be worthless in both professions - a bad player doesn't do the party any good at all. Personally I like the paragon and find it useful. On an 8 man party there is always at least one slot for "other", usually two and a paragon fills that role better than most (if played well).
But then, it does suffer from the "only one effective build" syndrome and it is a "team" build in that my character and the rest of the heroes have to be built around it. I find it fairly effective even in Torment missions, Sorrows Furnace, and Tombs of the Primeval Kings.
Since it is the hero I don't really care if it is only one effective build as long as it is effective.
From what I've read my searing flames elementalist would do well with a "they're on fire" build, but she hasn't made it far enough yet to see. It will probably be some time before she does and the next skill balance will most likely totally change it anyway.
They also suffer from the Mesmer condition that if done really well the missions just go by very fast - it is not a direct damage or heal. Too many need that to know if a party member is being useful. Plus it is easy to be worthless in both professions - a bad player doesn't do the party any good at all. Personally I like the paragon and find it useful. On an 8 man party there is always at least one slot for "other", usually two and a paragon fills that role better than most (if played well).
Devil Lil Assassin
If you could go back to when factions first came out and read all the flame threads about Assassins you would see alot of the exact same arguements I just read in this thread about Assassins being worthless for pvp and pve. Although I do agree the skill set of the Paragon could be improved, especially with the elites, but overall if the player is competent and knows how to use the skills they have Paragon is a good addition to any team. Not as much in pvp, but certainly in pve the Paragon can be a very valuable team member.
CagedinSanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Lil Assassin
If you could go back to when factions first came out and read all the flame threads about Assassins you would see alot of the exact same arguements I just read in this thread about Assassins being worthless for pvp and pve. Although I do agree the skill set of the Paragon could be improved, especially with the elites, but overall if the player is competent and knows how to use the skills they have Paragon is a good addition to any team. Not as much in pvp, but certainly in pve the Paragon can be a very valuable team member.
I would totally love assassins if they didn't die so easily. Perhaps they could use a 10 point armor upgrade or something. Perhaps a 2-3 point weapon upgrade. assassins are fun to play, but personally I'm not much good with them. Very sad indeed.
Blah, sorry for being off topic there.
As i go farther into the higher level missions and areas of NF, I'm seeing more and more Paragons. Are they not nearly hated as much as I originally thought?
Blah, sorry for being off topic there.
As i go farther into the higher level missions and areas of NF, I'm seeing more and more Paragons. Are they not nearly hated as much as I originally thought?
clawofcrimson
/agreed....and you will see me trying to make builds that keep the para out of the "one role" mindset....in fact I have been having a good time playing the para in random arenas...getting one or two glad points a night..(glads title here i come)...you can view the builds in these threads...
Strange Brew
Been here a hundred times before..
I remember sitting at warcamp for hours with my ranger and couldn't geta party for love nor money. That was before folks discovered the joys of B/P.
Then came the mesmer, still not really appreciated in PvE, but once upon a time was completely disregarded as a viable team player. Now my guildies & alliance never do FoW/UW without a mes. And she's breezing through Nf like there's no tomorrow.
Had a few occasions where my Necro was not takes seriously (unless running minions) either. Took a long while to convince my fellow guild wammos and monks that I was actually doing something useful with SS. Sometimes they have to see it to believe it.
Assassin, well I made one and deleted her shortly after lvl 20, when Factions first arrived. I have made one since and have been all over Tyria and Cantha with her pretty successfully, albeit it mainly with heroes and hench.
Monks have had it too good for too long, and there have been some pretty obnoxious monks out there. The competition monks are now finding from heroes is forcing real monks to feel unloved atm.
And now paragons and dervish. The current hated classes.
Just hang in there. Play with heroes and hench if you have to. It's only a matter of time before you find your real game niche. A few ANerfs along the way should help to buff/balance these characters. There are already emerging some good party support builds for paras and excellent running builds for dervys.
Your time will come.
I remember sitting at warcamp for hours with my ranger and couldn't geta party for love nor money. That was before folks discovered the joys of B/P.
Then came the mesmer, still not really appreciated in PvE, but once upon a time was completely disregarded as a viable team player. Now my guildies & alliance never do FoW/UW without a mes. And she's breezing through Nf like there's no tomorrow.
Had a few occasions where my Necro was not takes seriously (unless running minions) either. Took a long while to convince my fellow guild wammos and monks that I was actually doing something useful with SS. Sometimes they have to see it to believe it.
Assassin, well I made one and deleted her shortly after lvl 20, when Factions first arrived. I have made one since and have been all over Tyria and Cantha with her pretty successfully, albeit it mainly with heroes and hench.
Monks have had it too good for too long, and there have been some pretty obnoxious monks out there. The competition monks are now finding from heroes is forcing real monks to feel unloved atm.
And now paragons and dervish. The current hated classes.
Just hang in there. Play with heroes and hench if you have to. It's only a matter of time before you find your real game niche. A few ANerfs along the way should help to buff/balance these characters. There are already emerging some good party support builds for paras and excellent running builds for dervys.
Your time will come.
clawofcrimson
yes...its all about the general gw gaming public... its not like there aren't good builds out there...its just the non core discriminators that make you feel like poo... 
I have been doing well in pvp with my para...as well as providing a clear value in pve as I find others to play with....

I have been doing well in pvp with my para...as well as providing a clear value in pve as I find others to play with....
oinkers
I think in PvE the single buff to Song Of Power to make non-terminate on use of a skill, or less conditional, would make a new party-bipper build available. That would be amazing.
I think an elite that was like Barrage, but for spears - i.e. hit multiple targets, would make the Para go someway to be a real *direct* damage dealer that is apparent to other team players, instead of doing so indirectly via GFTE etc.
I think an elite that was like Barrage, but for spears - i.e. hit multiple targets, would make the Para go someway to be a real *direct* damage dealer that is apparent to other team players, instead of doing so indirectly via GFTE etc.
Devil Lil Assassin
The biggest problem I noticed with the players of this game since the release is that once a good build is found for any profession, for either pvp or pve, then there seems to be about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 people that absolutely have to go make one. Hence the 55monk and 55necro builds, shock wars, minion masters, blood spike necro, and of course when factions came out there was more nooblar assassin than even I can count.
Whether it's a new profession, or a new build for an existing profession that works really well, people are going to make one to try it out. So basicly until they either master it or get sick of it we're stuck with the flood. 
I think that's the main reason Assassins and now Paragons are disliked. It also has to do with people not liking the skills they get, but then again maybe they're just too lazy to use those skills to make a new build.
I say give it a few more weeks/months let the people try Paragon and if they decide they like it they might come up with something useful. If they decide they hate it well then that's one less player using that profession if they're no good at it.


I think that's the main reason Assassins and now Paragons are disliked. It also has to do with people not liking the skills they get, but then again maybe they're just too lazy to use those skills to make a new build.

I say give it a few more weeks/months let the people try Paragon and if they decide they like it they might come up with something useful. If they decide they hate it well then that's one less player using that profession if they're no good at it.
Apok Omen
The only thing worth saying is this: The Core classes will always remain better than any hybrid profession.
Sure, Paragons have great party buffs, but truth be told, the core classes do it better. The spear line is great, but hardly anyone uses them for that reason. Their chants last a short while, then take longer to recharge.
However, they are not unwanted. Their buffs are special and unique. And so, they fit in a special build made for Elite missions. and, don't count them out for DoA, either. Many builds can use a paragon, but only for full defensive measures.
Sure, Paragons have great party buffs, but truth be told, the core classes do it better. The spear line is great, but hardly anyone uses them for that reason. Their chants last a short while, then take longer to recharge.
However, they are not unwanted. Their buffs are special and unique. And so, they fit in a special build made for Elite missions. and, don't count them out for DoA, either. Many builds can use a paragon, but only for full defensive measures.
clawofcrimson
Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkers
explosive tipped spear FTW
target takes x damage and adjacent enemies are set of fire for x seconds
...heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apok Omen
The only thing worth saying is this: The Core classes will always remain better than any hybrid profession.
Sure, Paragons have great party buffs, but truth be told, the core classes do it better. The spear line is great, but hardly anyone uses them for that reason. Their chants last a short while, then take longer to recharge. However, they are not unwanted. Their buffs are special and unique. And so, they fit in a special build made for Elite missions. and, don't count them out for DoA, either. Many builds can use a paragon, but only for full defensive measures. Im not sure I agree that the core proffessions are "better" I would say that they are more foundational... and more widely used ... and have WAY more skills to choose from...and actually have a niche..... but..... Im not sure about better..... ![]() pingu666
people know what to expect from the core classes too.
stand your ground + watch yourself is probably better than aegis spam anyways, go for the eyes goes well with minion masters (potentialy 14+ "melee" allies) antham of flame (2sec burning), assusuming 6 attackers = 28x6 = 168 damage, amour ignoring ![]() damage from spear isnt too shaby either ![]() CagedinSanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu666
damage from spear isnt too shaby either
![]() I'm off farming kournans and hitting 70's and 50's with skills and such (Which isn't bad mind you.) How can people say paragons suck with that >_< Feathers
Armor of 80 and not exactly a first target for the AI like a monk or mezmer, how can this be a bad class to game with ? My Paragon rocks ! My first attempt at legendary survivor was with a paragon which hit 1,000,000 experience and beat the game before dying from my own stupidity, not because the class sucked. NO this class can solo the game with just his or her heros , I know I've done it with no help from PUGS.
Shadowfox1125
Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkers
As for long term replayability? Playing a Paragon feels like I've got the foot off the pedal - a bit disengaged from the action compared to say, a nuker, or a monk or a tank up front. You're too busy micro targetting your allies to put refrains/echos on to enjoy the action. A bit like playing a rit minion bomber and micro targetting Death Nova on minions - you end up too hassled to really enjoy the quest.
Exactly how I felt with my Paragon around the last missions of NF.. but I beat it because I was already there, so..
Jetdoc
I personally believe that a PvE party without one paragon is significantly "gimped" in both their healing and damage dealing capacities.
As someone said earlier, 2 paragons is likely overkill, except for Go For The Eyes buffs. I personally am loving the support role that a Paragon secondary has for my Ranger. Sophitia Leafblade
Paragons are great characters liek all they can be changed to fit several roles, ok there skills are limited atm, but then again they have less skills because they are new, they are unpopular atm because there limited skill wise and because theres so many of them and when u have alot of 1 char u tend to find alot of ones that arnt being played as effectively as they could
7thPawn
When I started in with NF I started with a Paragon. I thought they looked cool all around. I was very happy with the selection of the class and then I made the mistake of doing up a Dervish like a buddy had suggested and I was wading through bad guys like they were not even there. Then I went back to Paragon and I was so used to a forward pace that I was able to set with my Dervish, controlling the flow of battle by controlling which mobs were doing what by just personally killing everything in point blank AOE fashion, that Paragon just seemed..., almost slow. I couldn't control the groups of enemies by just killing everything in my path, I had to be a bit more strategic about it all.
So what does that mean? It could offer an insight as to why some might not go to the Paragon thing. Some people are so blinded by the sheer damage numbers that can be provided with other classes, and the fact that the class is a bit more subtle instead of in your face kick everything's butt, could be why some people might not like the class. I still like the class, and the only real problem I have with things is with a small hiccup I ran into with NF that made me throw in the towel on my insano destructo Dervish ways, but that is not a class problem. The main thing is the gear shift some people would have to do from doing solo farm/main damage dealer, to support. And I am convinced that most people can't shift gears very well, so Paragon gets a bad rap. What ever though. More fun for the rest of us. blackdoctor
Well, lets start, first of all Paragon it's not the fashion class like a Warrior or a Monk, the fact is that we have been seeing the same pattern with the sins. A lot of people use the class in different way than is designed or dont know how to use it correctly. I clearly understood all those people complaining about Paragons dps, but that's not the main role of a Paragon. Go Motivation and you will see a huge difference and adds a great value to every team.
Just take a look to this basic build: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:P/W_Party_Support Regards oinkers
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdoctor
blackdoctor
Yeah i had that bad experience from many people with my sin, no matter if you are a good player or if you have a good build, if they did not want a sin in the past now is the para, and my best solution is go with heroes, friends or guildies.
Regards oinkers
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdoctor
if they did not want a sin in the past now is the para, and my best solution is go with heroes, friends or guildies.
I got a better solution. After finishing NF with my Para, I salvaged all his vabbian armor for gems/runes, sold them, and deleted the char.
CagedinSanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkers
As for long term replayability? Playing a Paragon feels like I've got the foot off the pedal - a bit disengaged from the action compared to say, a nuker, or a monk or a tank up front. You're too busy micro targetting your allies to put refrains/echos on to enjoy the action. A bit like playing a rit minion bomber and micro targetting Death Nova on minions - you end up too hassled to really enjoy the quest.
Since when did paragons always *have* to be a support character? My paragon has points shoved into spear mastery with hard hitting mess.
I do have one elite chant but it's not that impressive. Strangely my paragon has not yet had a problem finding a group. Even though they *might* think I'm some sort of pure motivation guy. Hopefully Anet will add some more skills so people will start asking "you spear or motiv?" oinkers
Quote:
Originally Posted by CagedinSanity
Since when did paragons always *have* to be a support character?
Would be nice if more Paragons played spear, but the range of spear skills reminds me of Rit channeling skills when they first came out - underpowered, too conditional and too little variation. ANet might buff it in future, but unless that happens I dont think you'll find many spear chucking paragons with high points in spear, compared to motivation/command.
Spears need a buff in the multi-target skill area, a bit like Barrage for rangers, but for spears instead. FoxBat
Spears can be nice pressure IF you have IAS. RaOs love it, and we got rocked recently by a high-ranked HA team running flail warriors with spear (don't need to run so much with a ranged weap) So for paras... that leaves aggresive refrain or soldier's stance, and either of them are going to need 1 or 2 shouts to maintain.
Keithark
I have w,n,e,and r thru the 3 games...just started p and m in nightfall (i dread getting thru the other 2 on monk until I get all the skills that I need from tyria and cantha) so I have little xp as a paragon, but seems to me p/r with pet and RaO would be massive damage...cause burning, poison, bleeding and 33% faster attack speed. Is my thinking flawed? I have only level 5 so far and haven't picked secondary yet
wilebill
Ok, the Paragon's usefulness is debatable in DoA and the Para mostly loses those debates! But this does not mean it is a bad char, not at all!
I run a Para, Command 12, Leadership 12, Spear 12 and it is really great in most of the game just with Heroes, Koss, Dunkoro, and Olias MM. The Fantastic Four! Beyond the Vortex, yes I need more on the demon maps, but I've done most of Domain of Secrets with just my Para and the three heroes. Grenth's Footprint, easy. The Fantastic Four can get surprisingly far into Sorrow's Furnace, though I usually add on a friend who is a Quickshot Interrupt Ranger for that, and we go in as five man Oro quest mostly. The Fantastic Four take down any Kurzick or Luxon map, Mourning Veil Falls is my favorite and great fun. Prophecies is our playground. Die Kephket, die! Inscriptions, just armor +10 when under effects of a shout or chant. Skills: Leader's Comfort Stand Your Ground Soldier's Fury Go For the Eyes Vicious Attack Anthem of Flame Never Surrender They're On Fire Real bread and butter, knucklehead build, for lazy people like me who are allergic to work. Rez sig? Naaaah! Riches, loot, greens! Huzzah! oinkers
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilebill
Ok, the Paragon's usefulness is debatable in DoA and the Para mostly loses those debates! But this does not mean it is a bad char, not at all!
... Die Kephket, die! Yeah, it's possible to do SF with a 5man including a Para, but it's not quite optimal. As for Kepkhet, my Rit solos it in about 10mins, so no green drops are stolen by heros. And no need for the flagging away technique either - my Rit has real balls. It is easy to play most of Tyria/Cantha/Elona with a Paragon, but there's not enough variation in Motivation to make Paragons real good party buffers, at least not enough to be recognised as such by other players. Too many builds have a near-even 3 attribute spread, e.g. 12/13/12 which severely weakens most of the effectiveness of the skills. Most skills are not very good at 12. You can go 2 point spreads to increase Motivation to 15 (and putting the remainder mostly in Leadership or Command) but then using the spear is like poking someone with a toothpick. Compared to a vengeful Rit/Me with a full 16 in resto - well, you get my drift. CagedinSanity
I think this has already been implied or already stated, but there's a decent chance the paragons will be extended or buffed at some point. They would almost have to be.
The assassin's somewhat were. It would make sense, I doubt Anet would want to waste their time with a class noone uses (except for nubs who are new to GW and got NF first altogether.) pingu666
well i really like mine, he seems rather effective to me (and every group he goes in) and yesterday i did elona reach with a motivation para in the team, and my energy never droped below half.
paragons really shine as group support, that is there reason for being really... Belriku
I prefer play Paragon in PvE because it's better than a Warrior ... as some team want 2W, 2P is the best way ~.~. it's just my opinion and stupid players won't change because they don't want to try ... So, my Para play alone in heroway, but there's no problem cause it's my 8th charac, but I understand new players who want to play Para and don't find groups...
Poor Gw... Patrick Smit
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdoctor
Well, lets start, first of all Paragon it's not the fashion class like a Warrior or a Monk, the fact is that we have been seeing the same pattern with the sins. A lot of people use the class in different way than is designed or dont know how to use it correctly. I clearly understood all those people complaining about Paragons dps, but that's not the main role of a Paragon. Go Motivation and you will see a huge difference and adds a great value to every team.
Just take a look to this basic build: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:P/W_Party_Support Regards This one can even synergize with the paragon i use, either as character or as hero: 1 They are on fire 2 Never surrender/Anthem of flame (last if u have physical based party) 3 Go for the eyes 4 Defensive anthem 5 Fall Back 6 Stand your ground 7 Aggresive refrain 8 Signet of return I slash through enemies like nothing alike, i was working with a jagged mm before, but this allows much greater speed to progress instead of waiting for Olias ^^. I try to take two sf eles and the rest is optional, people don't understand why you want to take these heroes, but after a bit they will understand. All characters have turned into tanks. crime.mob
ugh, paragons are the most misunderstood class in the game, and just like the RT they just have to gain momentum ( i read a bunch of posts saying that RT is never seen but by the time NF came out and i played the game, I saw RTs almost as often as I saw all the other casters)
i guess paragons were played a lot in the beginning of NF, but as of now they are the rarest class in the game. Though I see several on PvE NF (not nearly as much as dervish, warrior, ranger, necro, etc), its a rare encounter to find one on pvp or find a good one on pve I was hesitant to pick the paragon because they seemed to rigid and undiverse, guess I was right! their primary makes the HAVE to rely on shouts and chants, and makes them more effective with more ppl, like GVG or alliance (which is why i tone my primary down to 8 or 9 on random or team arenas). Once your done shouting, your given a small gap of energy to add whatever else you would like, be it something from another class, a costly command skill, or, more commonly, just another spear skill If i over use my "other" non chant skills, my energy bar rapidly hits 0, making me stick to very cheap "other" skills or make them soley rely on adrenaline... Now that im done bashing the paragon, this is why i stuck with him: they have TOUGH spear skills. I have a P and a R, and i hit ALOT more dmg with my spear than my bow, and can interupt, bleed, wound, etc. my opponent without any "catches" (a bow skill would have a preparation to add an affect or give you a condition to add a condition, like the enemy has to be running or something. And to top it all, bow generally does less dmg). In pve good paragons are rare, and people let me tag along (even though i am a lower lvl than them) because paragons have several heals and buffs that help the team rather than the single dmg dealing warrior. Also in pvp (random) i always thought my paragon was made for gvg or alliance battles and only played him because he was the only char i had a decent build on at the time. Well after experamenting, and even using straight out generic builds (like the avg ranger, avg warrior, etc) i found out that i won a lot more with my paragon (even more so than with my monk!). This is because the paragon has buffs that either give effects (burning, xtra dmg, or CRIPPILING) to their entire team's attacks, can boost the team's energy or adrenaline, or HEAL. And they can do all this while not being targeted by anybody, because they are such an oddity (and they have tougher armor than casters). Healing builds generally heal less than a monk, so they shouldn't just soley heal, but unlike a monk they can deal very generous amounts of dmg and can increase the energy and att dmg of their allies. |