Monk PvP

Syncrose

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

I recently just started this game and i am playing a monk as my main, i really enjoy this class, but in certain situations i feel like i get over powered, take for instance in some battles i get hexed and i am the main target for the other team, the hex reduces my casting time so im slowed/slow casting time and after that i just drop like a sack of potatoes. Also in many situations i can avoid being the main target, but for the main i am the main target and just get lit up and day extremely quickly. i was wondering if anyone has some information about builds/tactics/skills i should use or do. PvP is not fun when everyone just drops me and my team gets mad. Please help

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

If you have another monk as support, then use it. If not, learn to kite away from the other team. No matter what build you run or how good you are, you'll be overwhelmed at some point. Always ask for support or try to avoid getting targeted too much. It also helps to explain which format of PvP you're doing (TA, RA, HA, GvG, etc)

-.-

-.-

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

And what build you are using.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncrose
I recently just started this game and i am playing a monk as my main, i really enjoy this class, but in certain situations i feel like i get over powered, take for instance in some battles i get hexed and i am the main target for the other team, the hex reduces my casting time so im slowed/slow casting time and after that i just drop like a sack of potatoes. Also in many situations i can avoid being the main target, but for the main i am the main target and just get lit up and day extremely quickly. i was wondering if anyone has some information about builds/tactics/skills i should use or do. PvP is not fun when everyone just drops me and my team gets mad. Please help
WALLOFTEXT

And the usual junk, where are you playing, what builds are you running etc.

carbajac

carbajac

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Medicine Cabinet [PILL]

E/

Um, some tips? Well, try to memorize or at least be familiar with hexes that are cast on you; know their sound effects and their icons. Then you can get an idea about what to do about them. Like in your case, if the Mesmer casts Migraine or Arcane Conundrum on you, know that he's just waiting for you to cast so he can interrupt you.

Don't stand there and try to outheal the damage the warrior is laying on you.

If the ranger is parked on you throwing interrupts left and right, watch him and cast after he's shot an arrow or just get behind a wall.

A lot of your monk's self-defense doesn't come from your skill bar. Play a Mesmer, see what it's like and lay in on a monk and see how he/she responds to your hexes. Watch a guild battle, see what those monks do.

Here's a link to a thread on monking in pvp (from the Gladiator's Arena forum):
Monking

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Most players who started off Monking in PvP started thiers careers in PvE as in PvP it can be overwhelming(sp).When dealing with conditions and hexs as well as spike or pressure damage coming at you.I did start Monking in Pvp in the Halls of Heros back then ToPK now HA I did this in beta and it was a whole lot different.We were just haveing fun for the most part.
This is my suggestion and that is to make a Monk in PvE preferably Prophecies as you learn slow and get skill quests.When you finally feel you have a grap on it you can then tranfer it to RA and play there for awhile anyway you can take my suggestion as you will be the no 1 target on any team.Monking in GW is one of the most challengeing professions.

Syncrose

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

Well as for builds, i went straight healing/divine, im not sure if its good for pvp, but i was thinking it couldnt be to bad considering being a monk your main job is healing, and i enjoy healing and figured i'd be a huge asset in pvp for my team, but im not use when i die first, and to be fully honest the way i try and survive is by purely spamming heals, and every now and then shatter hex/remove hex, i am a mesmer second. And i feel by the time i get enough energy to shatter hex or get off the casting time of remove hex by that time im dead. If anyone suggests another build please let me know.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncrose
Well as for builds, i went straight healing/divine, im not sure if its good for pvp, but i was thinking it couldnt be to bad considering being a monk your main job is healing, and i enjoy healing and figured i'd be a huge asset in pvp for my team, but im not use when i die first, and to be fully honest the way i try and survive is by purely spamming heals, and every now and then shatter hex/remove hex, i am a mesmer second. And i feel by the time i get enough energy to shatter hex or get off the casting time of remove hex by that time im dead. If anyone suggests another build please let me know. when it come to hexs being a /Mes you best skills are inspired hex or revealed hex(Factions) anyway you just don't go with Devine and Healing it is more of a combo of different skill if you look at the sticky at the top by Markertt you will find all sorts of information on PvPing as Monk.the one thing that Monks do in PvP is protect with some hex removal.Blessed Light is a good skill for this as well as conditions.There are lots of builds it depends on where you are PvPing but like I said before to get your basic training in PvE and don't spam heals to much.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncrose
Well as for builds, i went straight healing/divine, im not sure if its good for pvp, but i was thinking it couldnt be to bad considering being a monk your main job is healing, and i enjoy healing and figured i'd be a huge asset in pvp for my team, but im not use when i die first, and to be fully honest the way i try and survive is by purely spamming heals, and every now and then shatter hex/remove hex, i am a mesmer second. And i feel by the time i get enough energy to shatter hex or get off the casting time of remove hex by that time im dead. If anyone suggests another build please let me know. The healing line utterly sucks. You want a 9 spec healing for gift of health and that's all in random arenas. Learn to love protection, it's a better line. For random arenas I usually run something like this.

[skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill][skill]Gift of Health[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Hex Breaker[/skill]

Something like 14 Prot, 9 Heal, ~4dom, the rest in divine (should be ~10/11). You don't want to be using heals to heal people, they should just be top ups. Protection is far more efficient and for the most it's extremely hard to just beat through, whereas a heal monk you can just outdamage it's healing rate and it dies.

Syncrose

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

Yah i never really got truley familiar with protection spec, a quick question is those protection skills, how are they used for instance are some considered a buff where you cast it on the person and it stays for a certain period of time, or are they needed in repitition. But i do use skills that get rid of hexes and conditions. But its hard to keep people up. My guess is that protection would be a much better choice. I appreciate the information

olly123

olly123

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

sh*tvill england

tgc

Mo/

well with protection spells, is u see some one under attack so i eather, depending on whats attacking him/ what thay r using to attack him, cast RoF/GoH/SoA/SB/PS, if its a foe goign to take over 100 dam i cast PS, if its over 10%, i cast SB, if its a lot of foes il llcast SB and SoA, to toatly limit daamage, if its a one of move ( such as fireball/ metor) id use RoF/GoH, and if thay r below 50%hp id use ZB. with conditions and hexes i know its nice to remove them all, but ur not a suppermonk ,no one is. so oly remove what u can, try and remove criple/blind fomr wars/pars/derv/rangers/sins and dazzed form any casters, hexs is a first come unless, its me then its me first, and as i use veil, is on me at start, till i see if the other team use hexs at all, then its off me for the +1 regain back.

hope it helps

olly123

olly123

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

sh*tvill england

tgc

Mo/

bump sorry :P

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgb
The healing line utterly sucks. You want a 9 spec healing for gift of health and that's all in random arenas. Learn to love protection, it's a better line. For random arenas I usually run something like this.

[skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill][skill]Gift of Health[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Hex Breaker[/skill]

Something like 14 Prot, 9 Heal, ~4dom, the rest in divine (should be ~10/11). You don't want to be using heals to heal people, they should just be top ups. Protection is far more efficient and for the most it's extremely hard to just beat through, whereas a heal monk you can just outdamage it's healing rate and it dies. This build is good but to complex for someone new to Monking it would be nice if there was the old Mo/E premade around but it is still on the wiki.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
This build is good but to complex for someone new to Monking it would be nice if there was the old Mo/E premade around but it is still on the wiki. Rubbish, there is absolutely no point playing pure healing builds, they don't teach you anything about monking. You just point at someone and red bars go up, blue bars go down. When your blue bars go down far enough people die.

There's nothing complex about protection at all intrinsically, it's just when you compare it to the 20 skills in healing that all do exactly the same thing it looks complex.



As for the build I listed and how to use it.

[skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill][skill]Gift of Health[/skill]

These two are both top up skills. Essentially some damage is going to leak through your prots, the worse you are at monking hte more leaks through. Gift of Health is incredibly attribute point per heal per energy efficient, that's why it's in. It works well at 9 spec and it's negative is irrelevant. Zealous Benediction is the big heal, it's a bigger top up and it's for yourself. The energy bonus on it is nice, but not something to be relied upon. Never wait to heal someone who needs it for them to drop below 50%, you'll lose people that way.

Next up is your three 1/4 second cast skills. I'll deal with them individually.

[skill]Spirit Bond[/skill]

This is your big protection and it's your expensive one as well. It's obvious enough how it works, this is your prot to use when you know someone is going to come under extended pressure. If there's for instance a hammer warrior running around with the chain Backbreaker->Crushing->Mighty->Hammer Bash and you see it coming to you, you want SB on yourself. You will almost certainly get three processes out of it which will keep you alive.

[skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill]

This thing takes a while to get going so you want to use it when somethings getting hammered. It's not a throw-away skill in that if you chuck it around randomly it will hardly process for any reduction. Drop it in to a guy getting heavily focused and it will quickly work it's way up to ~30 damage absorbtion.

[skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill]

This is your maintenance skill and your default. If I'm not sure what to use 9/10 I go RoF. It breaks extremely quickly, so don't expect it to last, but it will deal with a bit of damage in time to let you make decisions etc. Also if you see something flying around such as a one off damage packet, this is great to use. I used to love air eles, I'd see the Lightning Orb in mid-air and RoF the guy it was about to hit entirely wiping out the damage from it.

[skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill]

Your to removal skills, they do what they say on the can basically. Holy Veil has an extra dimension in that I allways enchant myself with it before a game. If someone drops a hex on me it's a free removal, otherwise I drop it myself. If I have a particularly annoying hexer on me I'll sometimes leave it up permanently, but given the next skill I wouldn't recomend that.

[skill]Hex Breaker[/skill]

Keep it up generally when playing teams with any hexes, it's nice, it will keep a lot off of you. The damage is meh, you only want the spec for the duration. It's not really critical but you mentioned you were struggling with hexes so I put it in.

The three protection spells should be your most used spells, but if you're new to monking they won't be as plenty of damage will get through, long run you should be aiming to be able to work with a utility elite instead of a top-up, such as divert hexes or something. In an RA situation, there's usually only two real damage dealers as the third and fourth guy are either monks or suck. Aim to work out who are the damage dealers and use your protection spells on their targets. Don't stare at the party-list, that tells you way to late when to use protection, your best bet is to watch it in game. If a warrior is chasing someone prot them. If an ele is raising it's hands towards someone then prot them etc. When people are damaged, top them up with GoH or ZB, but overall you should try to prevent the damage rather than top it up.

bungusmaximus

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

A little >slightly offtopic< question, i see no res on that bar, arent monks suppused to res when someone dies? whats common in PvP monk bars? res or no res?

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Monks do not resurrect. Ever.

Let the Elementalists do that job.

When a Monk wastes time to resurrect, that's time that can be used to save other allies.

bungusmaximus

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
Monks do not resurrect. Ever.

Let the Elementalists do that job.

When a Monk wastes time to resurrect, that's time that can be used to save other allies. I kinda figured that out yes, but players keep bashing me for not bringing res. maybe I should find some more decent ppl to play with then the average ZOMG RES ME NOOB MONK types. kinda hard tho, thxz for the heads up anyway.
Quite funny that I use the EXACTLY same monk bar as stated above for my own monk :P ZB must really own...

zling

zling

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but if you're having trouble with a lot of hexes on you bring a nice little skill called CoP(contemplation of purity) with you. it isnt a spell and thus unaffected by daze, migraine, arcane connundrum, etc and as a prot monk you can have plenty of enchantments on yourself to remove a lot of hexes simultaniously. this works especially well with holy veil as you get 2 hexes removed by stripping it with CoP

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
I kinda figured that out yes, but players keep bashing me for not bringing res.
Tell them to suck less at Guild Wars IMO. Then flame them some more when they whisper-rage you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
Quite funny that I use the EXACTLY same monk bar as stated above for my own monk :P ZB must really own... ZB isn't actually particularly good, it just works very well in some situations where damage is highly controlled and utility is not as valuable. It's certainly not something I like in GVG, but it's extremely powerful in RA situations.

bungusmaximus

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgb
Tell them to suck less at Guild Wars IMO. Then flame them some more when they whisper-rage you.



ZB isn't actually particularly good, it just works very well in some situations where damage is highly controlled and utility is not as valuable. It's certainly not something I like in GVG, but it's extremely powerful in RA situations. The only PvP i do is with 4 player teams (TA, AB), in a party with more then one monk it's indeed kinda risky to take.

olly123

olly123

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

sh*tvill england

tgc

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
A little >slightly offtopic< question, i see no res on that bar, arent monks suppused to res when someone dies? whats common in PvP monk bars? res or no res? like it has been mentions, a monk should never res, tho in PVE i always bring rebirth, times when the who team gets wiped out,(done flame me, u cant say you've never been the only person left alive in the group), but i never use it untill im the only person left. if u get some one pinging "im dead", i tell them to shut the f**k up. and if thay dont i wont res them

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Orignally Posted by dgb
Rubbish, there is absolutely no point playing pure healing builds, they don't teach you anything about monking. You just point at someone and red bars go up, blue bars go down. When your blue bars go down far enough people die.

There's nothing complex about protection at all intrinsically, it's just when you compare it to the 20 skills in healing that all do exactly the same thing it looks complex.
Sure there is for someone just new to Monking in PvP there is and I prefer PoS over Spirit Bond anyday or didn't you know it was nerfed,SoA yes.This is no beginner build it more for the advaned user I could use it but not the OP if you never played the role before.That is why I said PvE is a better training ground.Don't tell me how the bars work as I know already and I don't stare at them either

Quote:
Orignally Posted by LightningHell
Monks do not resurrect. Ever.

Let the Elementalists do that job.

When a Monk wastes time to resurrect, that's time that can be used to save other allies. Sure Monks res in RA,TA,ABand HB.They do not res in HA or GvG.They only use a signet instead of a hard res though.

Thom Bangalter

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

MO

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Sure Monks res in
Quote: RA that means they're bad.
Quote: TA that means they're really bad.
Quote:
AB people bring rez to AB? even the monk? what?
Quote:
HB people play this?

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Sure there is for someone just new to Monking in PvP there is and I prefer PoS over Spirit Bond anyday or didn't you know it was nerfed,SoA yes.This is no beginner build it more for the advaned user I could use it but not the OP if you never played the role before.That is why I said PvE is a better training ground.Don't tell me how the bars work as I know already and I don't stare at them either

Sure Monks res in RA,TA,ABand HB.They do not res in HA or GvG.They only use a signet instead of a hard res though. Can you stop polluting this thread with bad information.

Spirit Bond hasn't been nerfed significantly from a RA perspective, it only lasts eight bloody seconds, you'll be lucky to get ten processes out of it.

It's perfectly fine for a beginner, anything else will just teach bad habits and I don't recomend it.

Just stop sucking about resing please.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgb
Can you stop polluting this thread with bad information.

Spirit Bond hasn't been nerfed significantly from a RA perspective, it only lasts eight bloody seconds, you'll be lucky to get ten processes out of it.

It's perfectly fine for a beginner, anything else will just teach bad habits and I don't recomend it.

Just stop sucking about resing please. Spirit Bond has been nerfed as it is easy to strip it through either shatter enchantment or any type of physical damage.Why don't you think that no one uses the 605 solo build anymore?When it come to ressing it really is ok in RA as 1 slot wont make the difference between day or night in GvG that is a totally differenet matter altogether and style of Monking btw what are your chances of ending up with a Monk in RA.Then agian some other profs. don't bring res in RA.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

In RA, if you, as the monk, have to res, you're better off leaving the group because they suck too much, or you suck at monking.

sage tank

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/Mo

Like many other said, I suggest you go to prot line, healing pretty much sucks because its naturally long casting time.

Thom Bangalter

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

MO

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Spirit Bond has been nerfed as it is easy to strip it through either shatter enchantment or any type of physical damage.Why don't you think that no one uses the 605 solo build anymore?When it come to ressing it really is ok in RA as 1 slot wont make the difference between day or night in GvG that is a totally differenet matter altogether and style of Monking btw what are your chances of ending up with a Monk in RA.Then agian some other profs. don't bring res in RA. Spirit Bond is amazing, the only issue with it is that your bar is tight, it's expensive, and if you're solo monking prot spirit is better.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Spirit Bond has been nerfed as it is easy to strip it through either shatter enchantment or any type of physical damage.Why don't you think that no one uses the 605 solo build anymore?When it come to ressing it really is ok in RA as 1 slot wont make the difference between day or night in GvG that is a totally differenet matter altogether and style of Monking btw what are your chances of ending up with a Monk in RA.Then agian some other profs. don't bring res in RA. About Spirit Bond...it always was able to be shattered, they didn't specially nerf it so it can be easily removed. It now caps at 10 attacks, which is fine, because you'd be getting good enough mileage out of it anyway, or the damage is (hopefully) insignificant enough to be ignored, if you get to 10 uses. And, as stated above, Prot Spirit is better if you're alone.

What does the 605 solo build have to do with anything?

Effigy

Effigy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Illinois, US

Heroes of Talia [HoT]

Mo/

Age gives consistently bad information in every thread I read. I've gotten a few laughs for his/her posts in the past though.

As to PS versus SB for solo monking, I was under the impression that SB was a better choice because it combines negates a lot of damage rather than just controlling it like PS does. Burst Cancel did an analysis of the two in another thread. Is the longer duration worth sacrificing those +96 procs? Talking about RA here.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Effigy
Age gives consistently bad information in every thread I read. I've gotten a few laughs for his/her posts in the past though.

As to PS versus SB for solo monking, I was under the impression that SB was a better choice because it combines negates a lot of damage rather than just controlling it like PS does. Burst Cancel did an analysis of the two in another thread. Is the longer duration worth sacrificing those +96 procs? Talking about RA here. I do do I hmm I have been given lots of compliments on my Monking skills in both PvE and PvP and kept teams alive.When it comes to RA it really isn't that hard I kept groups alive with just 2 healing spells alone and I have pics to prove it.What I was getting at to the OP is new to Monking any build won't do him a world of good unless they know basics and ask your selves where did you learn the basics of Monking.I would tend to think PvE that is where the OP should be and anyone wanting to learn the basics.How good is this person at say keeping a group of six alive in a coop mission or even eight?

The skills on your bar aren't the only skills you need to be good at monking.you could give somene the best bar in world and if they don't all of the skill do play the role they won't do good at it it is not just looking at red bars and clicking on them and pressing button.That is not skill alone it take a lot more than that.You want to know where I learned about monks bringing a res signet in RA and TA is from The Guild Hall very pro PvP board unlike The Guru.

Syncrose

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

Thanks DGB, i appreciate it a bunch.

liquiddrool

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

Monking is all about knowing your enemy, then keeping your team alive while your team clumsily kills the other. When you start battle hit 'tab' to scroll through and see the kind of builds your opponents may be running. You may do well to watch some guild battles, play some other classes too, or atleast read the forums for their common builds if you do not know any.

DGB gave you a good build, run that one for teams/random, maybe make some mods for doing Heroes' Ascent. Random is a good place to learn too, you will see a lot of different builds and you won't get booted from a team if you suq.

Oh, and you don't need to do PvE. I learned all my monking from PVP, mainly alliance battles. When I finally made a PvE monk all the skills and tactics I learned in PVP made the PvE end of monking easy.