This old thread -- http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10041465 -- does a good job of outlining the problem. I've seen America have favor only a handful of times in the past couple of months, and only for short times at that. Playing for Japan or Taiwan? Forget having favor at all. At least, as far as I have seen.
I rarely PvP, and then mostly Random Arenas until I want to gouge my eyes out (about two matches). So my interest in having favor lies in the PvE benefits. Benefits like shrines that work and the ability to go to the Fissure of Woe; a place I have yet to go in over a year of playing, and it looks like I never will.
I would really like to hear from someone associated with ANet about this issue. Is this really functioning as intended? Or is it as broken as it seems to be? If it is broken, what is being done about it? Anything?
The Hall of Eur^H^H^H^H Heroes
jsumners
Stupid Shizno
within the past month ive seen taiwan take it from euro and hold.
and america holds halls for a few hours dailey, mostly from 0000-0700 GMT+1
and america holds halls for a few hours dailey, mostly from 0000-0700 GMT+1
Muk Utep
Your playtimes will affect who you perceive to hold favor the most. While the Asian regions do indeed rarely win the favor of the gods (I've never seen it happen) I do see America on a daily basis. However, their prime time is in the middle of the night and in the morning for Europe, so most people don't witness this. Try observing some PvP matches at 7am and see how many of the teams are European.
There's not much to be done about who wins. It's simply about which region has the largest and/or best playerbase at any given time, and you can't really force more people to play on one side. Concerning the issue of access to favor-required areas, a possible compromise (without removing the concept of having to win it) could be to allow each region access for a couple of hours during their prime time. So regardless of how the matches go, America could have access to those zones for a few hours when Europe sleeps, and equivalent for other area groups. I don't know if it would work, but that's the best I could think of.
There's not much to be done about who wins. It's simply about which region has the largest and/or best playerbase at any given time, and you can't really force more people to play on one side. Concerning the issue of access to favor-required areas, a possible compromise (without removing the concept of having to win it) could be to allow each region access for a couple of hours during their prime time. So regardless of how the matches go, America could have access to those zones for a few hours when Europe sleeps, and equivalent for other area groups. I don't know if it would work, but that's the best I could think of.
milan
This is rather ironic. Some time ago it was Europeans complaining almost daily that Europe never held halls, most of the replies from the US players were - 'stop sucking and win'.
Not quite sure why the roles have reversed themselves however I'm pretty sure there isn't a 'bug' or that the halls are broken.
Not quite sure why the roles have reversed themselves however I'm pretty sure there isn't a 'bug' or that the halls are broken.
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno
within the past month ive seen taiwan take it from euro and hold.
and america holds halls for a few hours dailey, mostly from 0000-0700 GMT+1 |
I typically play during those times you've listed. Usually, from about 19:00 to 23:00 (UTC -5). I've seen Japan have control once, and America only a few times for maybe an hour or two at a time. Should I be expected to stop whatever I may be doing at the time and run to ToA, hoping to get in a decent group for FoW, during one of these rare occurrences?
Long story short, this PvP area is affecting PvE way too much. I'm all for benefits coming from holding the Hall. But when the benefits affect a large community in such a way as to be detrimental when they are absent, they need to be reevaluated.
logan90
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milan
This is rather ironic. Some time ago it was Europeans complaining almost daily that Europe never held halls, most of the replies from the US players were - 'stop sucking and win'.
Not quite sure why the roles have reversed themselves however I'm pretty sure there isn't a 'bug' or that the halls are broken. |
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milan
This is rather ironic. Some time ago it was Europeans complaining almost daily that Europe never held halls, most of the replies from the US players were - 'stop sucking and win'.
Not quite sure why the roles have reversed themselves however I'm pretty sure there isn't a 'bug' or that the halls are broken. |
Edit:
I wasn't suggesting the Hall is bugged. I was suggesting that the system for favor itself is broken. "Broken" does not imply "bug" in this sense.
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Muk Utep
Your playtimes will affect who you perceive to hold favor the most. While the Asian regions do indeed rarely win the favor of the gods (I've never seen it happen) I do see America on a daily basis. However, their prime time is in the middle of the night and in the morning for Europe, so most people don't witness this. Try observing some PvP matches at 7am and see how many of the teams are European.
There's not much to be done about who wins. It's simply about which region has the largest and/or best playerbase at any given time, and you can't really force more people to play on one side. Concerning the issue of access to favor-required areas, a possible compromise (without removing the concept of having to win it) could be to allow each region access for a couple of hours during their prime time. So regardless of how the matches go, America could have access to those zones for a few hours when Europe sleeps, and equivalent for other area groups. I don't know if it would work, but that's the best I could think of. |
Yanman.be
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milan
This is rather ironic. Some time ago it was Europeans complaining almost daily that Europe never held halls, most of the replies from the US players were - 'stop sucking and win'.
Not quite sure why the roles have reversed themselves however I'm pretty sure there isn't a 'bug' or that the halls are broken. |
Tony Blair
Not having halls does not "cripple such a large aspect of the game."
Stop turning this into PvE vs. PvP. Do not blame it on the PvP players in your region. If you care so much about halls do something about it.
And in case you haven't noticed, Europe has a lot more players, at least PvP-wise. Check the ladder.
America has held enough halls in the past anyways, now Europe has their time. America still holds enough daily and I don't see where you are coming from claiming you have to be up around 3-7 AM just to access FoW. And, far from an optimal solution, but you can always switch to the European server if you feel it is "such a large aspect of the game."
I don't mean to flame, but saying American PvPers suck, have bad strategies, etc., and that that affects your game so much (*cough*) is not nice.
Stop turning this into PvE vs. PvP. Do not blame it on the PvP players in your region. If you care so much about halls do something about it.
And in case you haven't noticed, Europe has a lot more players, at least PvP-wise. Check the ladder.
America has held enough halls in the past anyways, now Europe has their time. America still holds enough daily and I don't see where you are coming from claiming you have to be up around 3-7 AM just to access FoW. And, far from an optimal solution, but you can always switch to the European server if you feel it is "such a large aspect of the game."
I don't mean to flame, but saying American PvPers suck, have bad strategies, etc., and that that affects your game so much (*cough*) is not nice.
Nickhimself
America gets the favor a few times during the day, but we take it every single night and hold it for a decent amount of time.
Europe usually holds it during the day.
That's how it is.
Europe usually holds it during the day.
That's how it is.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
What Tony said. There are less american PvPers and they are lower quality (and yes I'm American). Also, the favor system atm, IMHO, is partly broken due to 6v6. Since it is extremely hard to hold (due to 6v6) pretty much whichever region has the most teams playing halls is going to have favor. That would be Europe. If it were easier to hold, America might have favor a bit more... of course if it were 8v8 there would also be iway, so again, America would have favor more.
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tony Blair
Not having halls does not "cripple such a large aspect of the game."
Stop turning this into PvE vs. PvP. Do not blame it on the PvP players in your region. If you care so much about halls do something about it. And in case you haven't noticed, Europe has a lot more players, at least PvP-wise. Check the ladder. America has held enough halls in the past anyways, now Europe has their time. America still holds enough daily and I don't see where you are coming from claiming you have to be up around 3-7 AM just to access FoW. And, far from an optimal solution, but you can always switch to the European server if you feel it is "such a large aspect of the game." I don't mean to flame, but saying American PvPers suck, have bad strategies, etc., and that that affects your game so much (*cough*) is not nice. |
If the American PvPers can only hold the area in question for a short time during peak play times, then yes, they suck. It isn't that hard of a conclusion to reach. They have a good run every now and then, but then they loose almost immediately. And yes, their poor performance does affect my game. I've outlined it plenty. And the post I originally linked to outlines it even more; from the perspective of the side that constantly holds the Hall.
Stupid Shizno
@jsummers
stop running sf and builds and maybe your countrymen would win halls more often? just a gander
i am american, on american district, and go to HA AD1 and you see wammos and monks with bane signet, healing breeze asking for "healer for group"...sorry buddy, but the level of skill in AD1 just isnt there. and if your main concern ISNT pvp, why are you even worried about who holds halls? cant go to UW/FoW? tough luck i guess, this isnt a new complain from people, and arena net clearly dosnt plan on changing this. i enjoy the fact pvp aspect of the game influnces pve, afterall, this is a pvp game. not WoW.
stop running sf and builds and maybe your countrymen would win halls more often? just a gander
i am american, on american district, and go to HA AD1 and you see wammos and monks with bane signet, healing breeze asking for "healer for group"...sorry buddy, but the level of skill in AD1 just isnt there. and if your main concern ISNT pvp, why are you even worried about who holds halls? cant go to UW/FoW? tough luck i guess, this isnt a new complain from people, and arena net clearly dosnt plan on changing this. i enjoy the fact pvp aspect of the game influnces pve, afterall, this is a pvp game. not WoW.
SirShadowrunner
This has to my biggest beef with this game, be playing for
16months, one year hardcore in FoW and UW, I live in the US
and I have both my accounts in Europe, why????? They have
favor every morning when I wake up and every afternoon when
I get home from work.
America normally starts controlling favor sometime after
midnight when I goto bed, every morning I open the Guild
window and sure enough a bunch of guildies up till "morning"
playing GW.
There is no way most ppl are going to do this, SO I end up not
doing much with our guild because they sleep till midnight and
then get up and start playing.
Solution, I don't know of one that will work, to many loopholes
for ppl to exploit and to much of a hassle for Anet to
micro-manage this, so join the crowd and switch to Europe.
sorry for being pissy, this issue just makes me mad.......
16months, one year hardcore in FoW and UW, I live in the US
and I have both my accounts in Europe, why????? They have
favor every morning when I wake up and every afternoon when
I get home from work.
America normally starts controlling favor sometime after
midnight when I goto bed, every morning I open the Guild
window and sure enough a bunch of guildies up till "morning"
playing GW.
There is no way most ppl are going to do this, SO I end up not
doing much with our guild because they sleep till midnight and
then get up and start playing.
Solution, I don't know of one that will work, to many loopholes
for ppl to exploit and to much of a hassle for Anet to
micro-manage this, so join the crowd and switch to Europe.
sorry for being pissy, this issue just makes me mad.......
FireFox
lets get a few things straight, alot of the americans couldnt care less about HA anymore for one thing, for another When Europe couldn't ever get favor both the europeans AND quite a few of the americans had asked for a change to the favor system. But it seems that the Europeans find it fine now.
Cataclysm
See the problem is America DOES get favor, but its at such an ungodly early hour only people in Alaska or Hawai'i can take advantage of it.
Pickle
All I can say is, where you playing on the Euro servers when the game was released and months after? We had the favour maybe 2 times a week for an hour. The rest of the time it was held by Korea and America. When we eventually got it (good old Dynasty Warriors haha loved you guys), it was like a mad house, 50 districts at ToA (exaggeration of course).
But nothing was done about it then, I cant see anything being done now. And don't worry, I know how annoying it is.
But nothing was done about it then, I cant see anything being done now. And don't worry, I know how annoying it is.
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno
@jsummers
stop running sf and spirt spamming builds and maybe your countrymen would win halls more often? just a gander i am american, on american district, and go to HA AD1 and you see wammos and monks with ban signet, healing breeze asking for "healer for group"...sorry buddy, but the level of skill in AD1 just isnt there. |
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pickle
All I can say is, where you playing on the Euro servers when the game was released and months after? We had the favour maybe 2 times a week for an hour. The rest of the time it was held by Korea and America that held it. When we eventually got it (good old Dynasty Warriors haha loved you guys), it was like a mad house, 50 districts at ToA (exaggeration of course).
But nothing was done about it then, I cant see anything being done now. And don't worry, I know how annoying it is. |
Stupid Shizno
@jsummers
because anyone that wants to get fame/rank/win halls goes to international districts. because of this, all the american players that join groups often represent europe since the leader or 3/6 of the group is european. so the 2 americans in the group will represent europe. thats why america "represented teams" often look like crap.
because anyone that wants to get fame/rank/win halls goes to international districts. because of this, all the american players that join groups often represent europe since the leader or 3/6 of the group is european. so the 2 americans in the group will represent europe. thats why america "represented teams" often look like crap.
dunky_g
tbh all ur doing is whining, y dont you go try and win halls and then you can go to fow off your own back, stop complaing about what other people do and do it yourself if u think its that simple..
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno
@jsummers
because anyone that wants to get fame/rank/win halls goes to international districts. because of this, all the american players that join groups often represent europe since the leader or 3/6 of the group is european. so the 2 americans in the group will represent europe. thats why america "represented teams" often look like crap. |
aubray1741
Do you smell that? Smells like hypocrisy!
Winstar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jsumners
Why would I look at the ladder? As I've said, I don't play PvP that much. If PvP were my main concern in the game then I would pay attention to the ladder. As it is, I like to do missions, quests, and challenging areas with my guildmates/friends. Aside from not wanting to play for the European region, being the American that I am, I would have to convince at least my guild to all convert to Europe so we wouldn't have to deal with International Districts. ("Meet me in Lion's Arch district 1". "Where are you?" "Right beside storage." "I don't see you." "Dammit, I'm in the International District.")
If the American PvPers can only hold the area in question for a short time during peak play times, then yes, they suck. It isn't that hard of a conclusion to reach. They have a good run every now and then, but then they loose almost immediately. And yes, their poor performance does affect my game. I've outlined it plenty. And the post I originally linked to outlines it even more; from the perspective of the side that constantly holds the Hall. |
I've not paid too much attention but in the not too distant past america used to get favor around 9 est and hold from that point for quite a while. From what has been said it seems like its gotten worse which is too bad. Though I'm a pvp player mainly, I do actually agree that the system is a little unfair for American pve players at the time being and for Euro players in the past. Ideally each district would simply end up holding during the hours you would expect them to but that doesn't seem to be the case. While it might seem to be an interesting idea to have the pvp realm affect the pve realm and that its part of the ethos of the game in some strange way it would seem absurd if it were the other way around. I know I'd be pissed if I ended up with some kind of disadvantage in PvP because of something that went on in PvE. But why in princinple should PvE players have to put up with this when PvP players never would? As much as I like PvP more than PvE I don't think there is something fundamentally more important about PvP players than PvE players. It is, in the end, a game for everyone and we all just want to enjoy it. If you want to maintain some kind of tie between the 2 facets of GW in this regard, it should be less important. Make it so that the region holding gets some bonus in the elite areas like extra chests, automatic shrine like bonuses etc.
Stupid Shizno
@jsummers
international district should be allowed? please son
the whole aspect of guild wars is to play with anyone anywhere in the world, we have no relms like wow. the international district is a zone just so you can play with anyone you want. stop whining please. i was trying to be nice but now your just being arrogant.
international district should be allowed? please son
the whole aspect of guild wars is to play with anyone anywhere in the world, we have no relms like wow. the international district is a zone just so you can play with anyone you want. stop whining please. i was trying to be nice but now your just being arrogant.
nightshade_eyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno
@jsummers
because anyone that wants to get fame/rank/win halls goes to international districts. because of this, all the american players that join groups often represent europe since the leader or 3/6 of the group is european. so the 2 americans in the group will represent europe. thats why america "represented teams" often look like crap. |
AD1-2 is just so bad in terms of player quality.
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stupid Shizno
@jsummers
international district should be allowed? please son the whole aspect of guild wars is to play with anyone anywhere in the world, we have no relms like wow. the international district is a zone just so you can play with anyone you want. stop whining please. i was trying to be nice but now your just being arrogant. |
The solution here isn't "quit playing PvE and learn how to play PvP so your region can gain favor." The solution is to fix the broken favor system.
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nightshade_eyes
Mixed region team wins in HoH should be counted towards opening up FoW/UW in the INT districts.
AD1-2 is just so bad in terms of player quality. |
Stupid Shizno
there is no fow/uw in INT districts buddy, go try to form a guild in an ID district, you cant . you need a region. thats why there is no guild register in IND districts, no favor in IND districts. if there was IND favor then everyone would just hang out in IND ToA....just get use to the fact america is on the short end of the stick, the first 6 months of GW american ruled favor, now they probably quit since HA is a joke and euro is picking up the slack
Vinraith
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nightshade_eyes
Mixed region team wins in HoH should be counted towards opening up FoW/UW in the INT districts.
|
Stupid Shizno
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jsumners
The solution here isn't "quit playing PvE and learn how to play PvP so your region can gain favor." The solution is to fix the broken favor system.
|
Tony Blair
The system isn't perfect, no, but it's been this way for 20 months and people have dealt with it. Imagine if you were in Korea, Japan or Taiwan. They don't even have the option to switch to Europe or America. America does get favor and it's not only at ungodly hours as people seem to suggest. It's far from ideal, but this has been an ongoing issue since release and ANet has made no move to change it, so I doubt they will. I wish people still did favor charts to show how often each region has favor.
And I said look at the ladder because:
America/277 Guilds/27.7% of total
Europe/677 Guilds/67.7% of total
At this exact moment Europe has 40% more guilds in the Top 1000. Even if the average European PvPer is better than the average American PvPer, which wouldn't surprise me, it's obvious that Europe has far more PvP players.
And I said look at the ladder because:
America/277 Guilds/27.7% of total
Europe/677 Guilds/67.7% of total
At this exact moment Europe has 40% more guilds in the Top 1000. Even if the average European PvPer is better than the average American PvPer, which wouldn't surprise me, it's obvious that Europe has far more PvP players.
Stupid Shizno
But that should make sense, there is a larger population in europe then in america.
Bryant Again
Exactly, so why has there been a sudden shift in who has favor the most?
jsumners
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tony Blair
The system isn't perfect, no, but it's been this way for 20 months and people have dealt with it. Imagine if you were in Korea, Japan or Taiwan. They don't even have the option to switch to Europe or America. America does get favor and it's not only at ungodly hours as people seem to suggest. It's far from ideal, but this has been an ongoing issue since release and ANet has made no move to change it, so I doubt they will. I wish people still did favor charts to show how often each region has favor.
And I said look at the ladder because: America/277 Guilds/27.7% of total Europe/677 Guilds/67.7% of total At this exact moment Europe has 40% more guilds in the Top 1000. Even if the average European PvPer is better than the average American PvPer, which wouldn't surprise me, it's obvious that Europe has far more PvP players. |
Amity and Truth
Honestly... this flaw has been discussed to death. I was one of the vivid complainers about it back then. But I seriously gave up on the issue when month after month just passed by with no change to the system and not even acknowledgement of the flaw within.
It's meant to stay.
So my opinion is still:
Remove the connection of PVE and PVP in regards when it comes to dependance. The PVPers got their dependance removed (skill acquisition) but the PVErs still suffer from that connection. But I also want to note that this discussion is utterly futile.
It's meant to stay.
So my opinion is still:
Remove the connection of PVE and PVP in regards when it comes to dependance. The PVPers got their dependance removed (skill acquisition) but the PVErs still suffer from that connection. But I also want to note that this discussion is utterly futile.
Senator Tom
The people who whine about america not having favor just need to go learn to pvp and take halls for themselves, its really not that hard.
log1k
I saw Gaile in Kamadan ID1 one week ago and while she was avoiding direct answers as usual, I told her "Not that I care, but you should rethink the favor system"
That caught her eyes. It was 3 AM EST and America had favor. She was like, WOW, it's 3 AM and America has favor!! What's wrong with it? The WHOLE discrict tried to make her understand that this is the time we GET favor, AT NIGHT. No luck, she didnt care at all. She had her idea, and no arguments could make her open up her eyes.
Besides, SO many players LEFT HA because of stupid ANET decisions and changes that it's not competitive anymore, so the region with the biggest userbase online gets it and holds it.
That caught her eyes. It was 3 AM EST and America had favor. She was like, WOW, it's 3 AM and America has favor!! What's wrong with it? The WHOLE discrict tried to make her understand that this is the time we GET favor, AT NIGHT. No luck, she didnt care at all. She had her idea, and no arguments could make her open up her eyes.
Besides, SO many players LEFT HA because of stupid ANET decisions and changes that it's not competitive anymore, so the region with the biggest userbase online gets it and holds it.
Titan Chrae
Now I have not had the same problem JS has had in not being able to access content...but many people have and it is unfortunate. People telling him to get off his butt and win HoH haven't got a clue. This is NOT a PvP ONLY game and that is his point. It is both PvP AND PvE game. The PvE community is very vibrant...So much so that ANET changed the focus of their original PvP oriented concept to cater to PvE players.
I originally thought the favor system sounded cool. But let's face it.. the favor system is a failure. It should be discontinued and locked content should be open to all. The same goes for the Elite missions in Factions (Even though that is strictly PvE). ANET all but admitted that locking content was a catastrophic decision but they are still making mistakes on a lessor scale (Sunspear points anyone?)
Hopefully the next chapter will do away with locked content all together. I have a feeling that will happen in chapter 4 but that doesnt change the fact it's still broke in Prophecies and Factions and to a lesser extent Nightfall. This needs to be a retroactive change.
As far as the Favor System goes... ANET needs to untie the two communities so that they can each enjoy the damn game without destroying play value for the other. Yes...it affectas PvE players now...but what if it the tables where turned? How would PvP players feel if every time an Elite Mission was completed in PvE it gave a moral boost to that districts PvP players? I thought so!
I originally thought the favor system sounded cool. But let's face it.. the favor system is a failure. It should be discontinued and locked content should be open to all. The same goes for the Elite missions in Factions (Even though that is strictly PvE). ANET all but admitted that locking content was a catastrophic decision but they are still making mistakes on a lessor scale (Sunspear points anyone?)
Hopefully the next chapter will do away with locked content all together. I have a feeling that will happen in chapter 4 but that doesnt change the fact it's still broke in Prophecies and Factions and to a lesser extent Nightfall. This needs to be a retroactive change.
As far as the Favor System goes... ANET needs to untie the two communities so that they can each enjoy the damn game without destroying play value for the other. Yes...it affectas PvE players now...but what if it the tables where turned? How would PvP players feel if every time an Elite Mission was completed in PvE it gave a moral boost to that districts PvP players? I thought so!