How good is this build (hammer)

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

03 Jan 2007 at 14:43 - 1

I have a problem. Never quite having understood the hammer, I have mostly used swords and axes, both for PvE and PvP. But there is time for something new for me, I have been a little bored with running the same axe build for months now. So I thought I would make a hammer PvP warrior. I had an idea for a build already, not at all based on "classic" hammer builds (I think). It's something like this:

[skill]Sprint[/skill] [skill]Steady Stance[/skill] [skill]Desperation Blow[/skill] [skill]Drunken Blow[/skill] [skill]Hammer Bash[/skill] [skill]Mending Touch[/skill] [skill]Healing Signet[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Strictly for use in RA/AB. For AB, exchange Resurrection Signet for [skill]Irresistible Blow[/skill]

15 Hammer (major rune), 14 Tactics, spare points in strength

The build idea is simple: spam Steady + Desperation/Drunken combos as much as possible, and use Hammer Bash as soon as it's charged. I've tested this build, and results so far are quite amazing; I outdamage thumpers, kill monks in no time at all etc. Despite having five energy skills on the bar I never run out of energy, and I can knock down every three swings or so. On the other hand, these tests were carried out in RA, where warriors use Endure Pain and where rangers bring Heal Party (no joke).

My problem is this: Is this build actually good, or did I just face crappy opponents? If it's not good, how can I make it better? There seems to be no place to put in a deep wound (except from Desperation Blow...), and Steady Stance prevents me from using for example Frenzy. Or is the idea just plain crap and I should go with a (seeminly boring) Devastating Hammer build instead? Please help a newb hammer user

Dutch Masterr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Long Island, NY

Elite Knights [SWAT]

03 Jan 2007 at 17:31 - 2

great build, but i would just change the attributes a bit to 12 tactics and put 8 or 9 in strength. the only problem is its energy heavy, but its still good. also for AB i use disciplined stance (not a very popular skill) just to give me some time to use healing signet or fight off an attacking assassin. (their knock downs and conditions can kick your ass)

i never, ever liked thumper builds because they dont do enough damage for me. ive never been killed by a thumper on my warrior while using a hammer because i simply out damage them easily (and they can never heal themselves). at 15 or 16 hammer mastery i just love seeing hits in the 100s frequently...and against a warrior using frenzy ive done 250 damage or more =)

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

03 Jan 2007 at 19:53 - 3

Happy you think it's a good build

No, I tried lowering Tactics but then it really became too energy heavy. The beauty of the build is that when you pull a Steady + Desperation combo you get 8 energy back on 14 Tactics, which means that the whole thing only cost 2 energy while you did 100+ damage and put out a condition. And you can do that once every 5 seconds over and over, with knockdowns in between.

Thanks for advice on Disciplined Stance, I guess I can try that instead of IB.

About thumpers, yeah I love it when they hit me for almost nothing and I smack them for 20% of their health and knock them down on the next hit

They don't get it, rangers should use bows muahahha

Shadowfox1125

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

PST

03 Jan 2007 at 23:11 - 4

The thing is, why is your Hammer Mastery so high if you're not using any Hammer attack skills? Hammer Bash doesn't count because Hammer Mastery does not affect the skill at all. I guess in AB, you could use Irresistible Blow, but there isn't much point to it. How about not using the Hammer Major and add a Superior Tactics with a +1 Helm? Try it on a PvP character and see if it makes any difference. Thing is, this build is not very new; I've seen a variant of this build used by many warriors in certain types of PvP. I don't remember where I saw it, but it was when I was observing.

warriorsmiley

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Vandal Hearts [VH]

04 Jan 2007 at 02:34 - 5

Looks like a fun build but its very energy heavy but you can balance it with steady and a zealous weapon. I would change sprint for rush one less energy skill helps and yes I noticed you have hammer bash which kills aderaline but rush is only 4 and isnt really that hard to charge up. You also have a funny point spread i would pump tactics up get the most out of drunken blow and the copy and get the weapon till about 12(with helm and rune) then dump left overs in strength. Overall looks like fun.

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

04 Jan 2007 at 02:47 - 6

you're getting nothing out of using a hammer, and in fact losing quite a bit from shield mods. Drop hammer bash for bull's strike. I'd also drop sprint for rush because I like rush way more. Plus your build is very energy hungry.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

04 Jan 2007 at 02:51 - 7

i think its good to have a more "condition-oriented" hammer build, i personally love the steady stance + DB combo. i woulld ike to see crushing blow as a finisher to hammer bash, and maybe drop sprint for rush or something since you will have a lot of adrenaline.

EDIT: also to the guy above me: your wrong, bulls strike dosnt unconditionally stop anyone any time. and hammers do alot more damage than axes/swords. and there is almost not enought energy used since you gain 8 with every steady stance + DB

Shadowfox1125

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

PST

04 Jan 2007 at 04:36 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

EDIT: also to the guy above me: your wrong, bulls strike dosnt unconditionally stop anyone any time. and hammers do alot more damage than axes/swords. and there is almost not enought energy used since you gain 8 with every steady stance + DB He knows that Bull's Strike doesn't unconditionally knock the person down, but at this point, if you switched to sword or axe, that might be the best choice. And his point was that you lose out on armor from a shield when you go hammer. Everybody knows Hammers do more damage, but you attack slower and you lose out on a shield. Don't take people for fools, please.

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

04 Jan 2007 at 05:21 - 9

The Hammer bash is a really nice source of disruption, but You lose 16 armor and 30 health, and either damage or condition reduction. In RA, that counts for a lot more than one would think.

It's a good build overall though, and compared to other builds posted here, it's like heaven to look at.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 05:25 - 10

Looks pretty nice. As Thom said, this build is zomgwtfbbq awesome compared to almost everything else in the Warrior forum.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

04 Jan 2007 at 07:46 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

You mean, the "Fear Me!" Steady Stance/Desperation-Drunken Blow?

Quote: Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

i never, ever liked thumper builds because they dont do enough damage for me. ive never been killed by a thumper on my warrior while using a hammer because i simply out damage them easily (and they can never heal themselves). I do not know what on earth you're talking about.

Nexus Icon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Natis Ignigena

Me/

04 Jan 2007 at 09:06 - 12

I take it that dropping Mending Touch would be a PvP faux pas?
If not, you could keep Hammer Bash and take Crushing Blow as well, or some other attack / utility, such as "Fear Me!" as LightningHell suggests.

Dropping Sprint for Rush as Thom suggests seems sensible as well, as your Steady Stance / Desperation Blow combo will charge it immediately.

Very nice build though, I like it

Shadowfox1125

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

PST

04 Jan 2007 at 09:08 - 13

Yeah, I meant that build--just saw it today.

But besides that, I used the build, but ran a 16 Tactics, 9 Strength, 11 Hammer split, and I tested this in Aspenwood, and I dropped Rez for Crushing Blow. It's pretty good, except I hated not having an IAS. But dealing 101 Damage and a condition to a sin is pretty satisfying, no?

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

04 Jan 2007 at 10:24 - 14

IMO it's not so beneficial after 14, since I don't like losing 75 health for the extra on Desperation/Drunken.

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 10:36 - 15

Wowww look at all the replies, thanks ppl

Shadowfox1125 ) My Hammer Mastery is at 15 to make more damage. But i already use this on a PvP char, so I'll change to a Tactics helmet and try that instead, thanks!
I too hate not having an IAS. Maybe I should use I Will Avenge You for optional skill in AB, lol.

warriorsmiley ) Yeah I thought about Rush as well. The point of having Sprint in there is that Sprint + Hammer Bash = knock down kiters. I couldn't do that with Rush. But I guarantee that the build isn't energy heavy, I spam the skills over and over, never running low on energy.

Thom Bangalter ) Tried Bull's Strike, but it has a 10 sec reload time and will only knock down moving targets. I use this in RA where 50% of monks are too stupid to kite

and the build idea isn't just about damage, it's about conditions and knockdowns every few seconds.
The lack of a shield is a big problem for me since I am used to axes and swords. I have put +health insignias and runes all over my armor because of that, but actually having a shield is nicer of course. Conditions are not really a big problem, they only cost a little energy, I have Mending Touch to remove two conditions at once every 4 seconds.

Arkantos ) Thanks

LightningHell ) Haha. In AB I saw some guy who had copied a Heroes' Ascent Steady Stance Fear Me build. I was the only person in easrhot and he popped Fear Me for some reason. Wow -3 energy on one person that really hurts lol... Then I killed him. Fear Me has a place in organized PvP if you have 4 ppl using it at once but in RA/AB... I don't know. Thanks for the tip though.
About your second post, what do you mean losing 75 health??

Nexus Icon ) Nooo Mending Touch is too good to me... I hate those eles that keep blinding me... I would really love Crushing Blow. Maybe I should limit myself to one Steady + DB combo per 7 seconds instead of once per 5 seconds? That would leave room for Crushing Blow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

But dealing 101 Damage and a condition to a sin is pretty satisfying, no? Three digit damage numbers = the reason I wanted to go hammer

Again, thanks for all the replies, it looks like the build idea was pretty good after all, I'll try some more variations and see what happens.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

04 Jan 2007 at 10:39 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

About your second post, what do you mean losing 75 health?? That was directed towards Shadowfox, about using a Superior Tactics rune.

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 10:51 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

That was directed towards Shadowfox, about using a Superior Tactics rune. Ahh ok, yes I know, since hammer users can't use a shield you need all the health you can get, I'll try his attribute point spread but with 15 Tactics instead.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

04 Jan 2007 at 11:16 - 18

I recommend 14 tactics, hitting the breakpoint on Steady Stance.

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 12:03 - 19

So 14 Tactics is good? Arrrrrrgh there is no way to improve the build

What do you think of replacing either Drunken or Desperation Blow with some other skill?

Nexus Icon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Natis Ignigena

Me/

04 Jan 2007 at 15:07 - 20

Well, seems to work very well in RA.
I haven't played there in a LONG time, and I got a 10 win streak first go with this build, with Rush insted of Sprint.
Attribute spread was 7 Strength, 14 Hammer, 14 Tactics, rest in prot.
Admittedly, I got lucky with my team (Monk, Mes & 2 warriors), but it was damn good fun

Kudos qvtkc.

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

04 Jan 2007 at 15:44 - 21

I mulled it over, and I can't think of a better slot than hammer bash. You get gobs of adrenaline so you just spam kds, which is pretty nice.

My issues now are two-fold: one, you have no reliable source of deep wound, and two, you have no IAS. In an enviornment like aspenwood I would drop rez for frenzy. With all that energy you could try to run tiger's fury but you probably don't have enough to spec into beastmastery; frenzy would be the best choice. In places where you just pressure out opponents the lack of reliable deep wound is fine; eventually you'll hit a drunken that gives you one, and since you spam those two skills it's not that problematic.

I wouldn't sub out drunken or desperation, they synergize too well with your elite.

Still, by far the best semi-original build this section has seen.

A Leprechaun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 17:07 - 22

^
He cant use frenzy, or any other IAS, as he is in steady stance a lot of the time, and when hes not he will be using sprint/rush.

~A Leprechaun~

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

04 Jan 2007 at 17:11 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

^
He cant use frenzy, or any other IAS, as he is in steady stance a lot of the time, and when hes not he will be using sprint/rush.

~A Leprechaun~ Good point. I guess the IAS isn't needed that badly since you get tons of adrenaline from steady stance, so you're just using it to increase the DPS.

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Jan 2007 at 01:44 - 24

Yes the idea of having Hammer Bash in there is indeed to spam it, not even to try for organized disruption or anything, just use it to ruin people's day. Muahaha.
I would want a sure deep wound as well but as you say eventually one will come along. Ok, so both Desperation and Drunken Blow stays in then. Thanks!
About using Rush, i totally changed my opinion, it's a really good idea since I can activate Steady Stance after the DB swing is started but before it hits, which means I can catch up with kiters and still use a Steady + DB combo on them... and then activate Rush after the hit to still keep chasing them. It's hard to time it but with a little practice I will get it to work. It's less good for AB though since there you need to sometimes run without having any adrenaline.

I'm so happy you guys like it

and congratulations on gladiator point Nexus Icon

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

05 Jan 2007 at 03:46 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

I'm so happy you guys like it

I'm so happy it's playable, and fairly solid in certain enviornments. If fear me! gets nerfed and steady stance doesn't, this could be a solid basis for a team template in the tradition of Iway.

Anarkii

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

-None-

R/Me

05 Jan 2007 at 06:09 - 26

Pretty solid build. I tried it in AB for a change, and was extremely pleased with how it went.