Remove the Grind Factor

Personally I hate grind. That's why I'm playing Guild Wars instead of World of Warcraft. That's why I was a little miffed when I bought Nightfall and started playing.

There are a few things that are driving me crazy about Nightfall.
1. The ten thousand necessary side quests. That's just a way to lengthen the game in a cheap fashion. Personally I hate that. I'd like to play through the missions and advance the story. True the side quests advance the story, but there are just too many in Nightfall. I had to do around a dozen side quests to get from one mission to the next, maybe more.

2. Hero requirements. Doesn't seem like grind at first, but then you look at your hero's level and realize, oops, he's level 10 in a level 20 zone. Personally I don't like using Koss. Just my preference. But I constantly have to use him to advance the story, and he wasn't exactly my highest level hero. Acolyte Jin, Tahlkora, and Dunkoro were all my preferences over Koss. So his level was low and I had to do a bunch of sidequests to level him before he could actually survive, and it messed up my team combos a bit which sucked too. This is more of an annoyance than grind factor, but there is some grind in it hence the reason for its inclusion.

3. Sunspear Points. Possibly the MOST annoying of all, I have to gain thousands of points to advance the storyline? What kind of idiot thought this up? What is the point? To force us to do a thousand side quests before we can actually play the game? To me side quests are a diversion, optional and most of the time useless. If you want people to do side quests so badly, don't force them, entice them. Offer something up like rare materials, weapon mods, or keys. Those are all things that people would jump at to gain. I can guarantee that that is a better solution than adding in grind and forcing people to do something they really don't want to do. Oh, and high amounts of gold would be nice, considering that 200 gold can be gained by selling 4 or 5 pieces of junk to a merchant.

All three of these things are extremely annoying. I'll probably play through Nightfall once and refuse to do it with another character. Unless I come across armor I want or something. But here's my simple suggestion. Make it more like factions. I know factions was more pvp based, but they did a bang up job on pve as well. Admittedly the quests aren't as diverse as the ones you find in Nightfall, but the fast paced pve more than makes up for it. I'm in love with the get to level 20 in 4 hours idea. Of course it has always taken me two days because I like to take breaks, but you get the idea. I think that factions had the concept right in making it so that it was easy to get to missions, and then making some of them really hard (that statement is open to debate, but for some people, me included, there are hard ones).

I've talked our ears off I'm sure. Any thoughts on this?

Grind in Guild Wars? What have you been smoking, and can I have some?

Necessary side quests? Wtf is that? how can it be necessary if it's a side quest? Sure you need to do a quest to get your 15k sunspear, but the quest takes all of 10 minutes to do, and 15k armour is far from necessary.

Hero requirements make sense. Your point about having a level 10 hero at a level 20 area is moot since they made it so that when you bring a non-Elonian character over all heroes are at least level 15. And really, all the missions before the Realm of Torment are quite easy. For an elonian character, you should be leveling up your heroes along with your character if you want to be using them.

Your point about sunspear points is again, moot. Non-Elonian characters don't even need to have any sunspear points to do the campaign. Also if you have an Elonian character, you should have been gaining sunspear points while playing through Istan, and you should have at least 1,000 sunspear points by the time you reach the mainland.

So really, all three of your points really, don't have any real backing.

1. The side quests make the game enjoyable and add depth to the world. You immerse yourself in the land of Elona and its people.

2. Heroes are, indeed, a requirement for some quests and missions, but they do not necessarily have to be lvl20. You and six other lvl20 henchies/heroes/PuG can make up for this.

3. Sunspear points are only necessary until you reach First Spear. After that, you stop noticing the quests that require a certain level in Sunspear, due to the fact that you gain points so frequently and easily.

I think Nightfall has some great things included in its contents. I also think that it has more "good" things than "bad" things. I only planned on making an Elementalist for Elona, but my I want to get my Monk and possibly my Assassin through the Land of the Golden Sun as well.

If you look at the good things, they usually outweigh the bad.

Well, I'll agree that there are a lot of BORING side quests that u need to do in the beginning to get the sunspear title up. I also noticed a lot of primary quests between missions. And i just hate heroes period. I dont want my minion master necro to be replaced by some cheap "mm hero".

Well I'm not nearly as pissed off about it as the original poster :-P

But I do agree that adding mandatory grinding to GW was a really bizarre decision on ANET's part.

And this isn't something that there's any room to debate either... The sunspear rank requirement in order to advance makes grinding compulsory, especially with characters from other chapters.

I also agree that the number of arbitrary quests does indeed seem like a cheap way to add extra hours, probably in response to criticism of Factions short play time (which I personally didn't mind).

Before NightFall grinding is something that ANET always did a good job of supporting but keeping separate for the people that were into it. Which was a great policy.

Hopefully future chapters will learn from NF's mistake.

actually, i have a different sort of peeve.
you know how they dont put important npcs in town? and say, if you needed to see kormir you have to walk outside town and meet her right outside? and then there are STUPID primary quests which make you do this OVER and OVER again. all that loading in and out. and when you have several characters ~_~. this seems to happen mostly in elona though. too much 'story' kinda spoils it methinks. or rather primary quests in general which should be thrown into a tutorial section like 'Command Training?'

Prophecies= No Grind (YAY!)
Factions= 10k Faction Grind (BOO!)
Nightfall= Sunspear Point Grind (BOO!), Hero Grind (DOUBLE BOO!)

Gind= LAME.

LAME= Word of the week.

So I presume it's just coincidence that the OP is from the guild [LaZy]?

I agree the quests in NF and Factions were tedious and meaningless to the story. I always liked prophecies because you can skip through the most boring parts of the story (up to the desert). I guess Anet just doesnt like people running through their games.
Power level them at your local wurm spoor.
Probably the flavor development team, oh I'm sorry I didn't realize that question was rhetorical. Go on
That's a great idea! Anet needs to do that. My monk also has 200 unfinished quests from each chapter that I will never care to do until they add a title.

What are you talking about? I have a character that's half way through Vabbi, and is still only a Sunspear Captain. They removed the requirement for non-Elonains over a month ago.

The whole thing boils down to this. A.Net promised different things to different types of players. Or, at least, they unwittingly said that they would meet certain expectations that different players wanted. So, in order to accommodate as many people as possible, mainly the RPG camp and PvP endgame camp, they have had to make many compromises that they wouldn't have had to otherwise.

Even though they don't always get the balance quite right, they do listen to their player base. Trust me, I've been here since before launch (prophecies) and I've seen them listen time and again. That doesn't mean that they do everything that we want them to do (*ahem* auction house). But they do listen and make changes.

One example was just given in post #10 by Curse You. And such changes are hardly a rarity. So, if you want something changed, here are a few tips.

1) Don't be a jerk about it and whine like a spoiled child. (I've tried that, it really doesn't work.)

2) Realize that in order to accommodate everyone, everyone has to make some compromises.

3) Keep asking and keep posting on the subject but don't squabble or whine. Persistance is important. I realize that we live in an "on-demand" society but most real changes do not happen at the push of a button.

4) State your case clearly remembering that your reasons should move beyond the concept of "I don't like it" because the only answer you will get to that is "I don't care."

5) Your post is a hundred times more likely to be taken seriously if you offer up solutions rather than just complaints. Those solutions may be as simple as removing a requirement, but they need to be present to garner any dev attention.

Now, I will attempt to adress the issues that the OP has. I am not a GW rep, and I'm not even all that bright but I've been around long enough to know a little bit about a little bit.

1) Factions was released as a PvP oriented expansion. I am not making a statement on the success of that release, just stating a fact. When Nightfall came around the premise was that it would be a PvE oriented expansion.

Whatsmore, the storyline was supposed to be woven into the world more than in Prophecies' and Factions' mission to mission style play. This was all as per the RPG camp's suggestions.

So, I really doubt that we will be seeing any major changes to the Nightfall storyline. Hopefully the next expansion will be a little less repetitive and lengthy but we'll see.

2) I have run 2 toons through parts of nightfall and have had little difficulty with the game. My heroes seem to be high enough level to get the job done with little trouble. There are times early on where certain required characters are a bit too weak and I hope that will be adressed at some point in the future but I don't see it as a high priority. And I don't think A.Net does either.

3) I experienced the problem with sunspear points at launch myself. And I'm not going to lie, it sucked. But fortunately they've already changed it so that elonian and canthan characters don't need them to move on.

I hope that those answers and the aforementioned advice helps in your future GW community interactions.

Firstly, if you don't want a xp grand, buy Factions, make a charcter, ship him to Elona and ta-da lvl 20 in days.

Second, if you dont want a hero grind, level 3 or so heroes (what i did) and then hope other people have heroes which you didnt level. (worked for me)
I leveled:
Koss - he does LOTS of missions.
Olias - Tyrian
Dunk/Tahl - Guess Why

i even managed to train up Melonni, i did it early game when im around Ronjok. and Master of Whispers, in Vabbi. So, in total, i managed to train up 5 heroes + Morghan to 20 before game's end. No Hassle Required. And if you don't like doing Secondaries, or merely avoid them, your missing out on lots of fun

Really?! By Balthazar's sweaty bunyons! I bought NF on release and started playing, then stopped playing (as soon as I got the "collect this many sunspear points" quest) and unlocked skills for PvP characters instead.

If that's all gone, I'll be off to play Nightfall now. Although, just for the record, I still hope there isn't even mention of a desert zone in the next expansion.

Since this is the case, I must agree that there doesn't seem to be much of an argument left. I'm sorry, but I'm quite fond of my mountain o' quests. I uhh, spend alot of time here.

~Mitsuki~

When was that then as only last week I had to farm sunspear points on my tyrian necro to get to general so I could continue the storyline.

As much as people have been going on and on and on about grinding, I still don't get it.

I've never had to expend a huge amount of energy or time leveling or grinding. Or, maybe it's just that I enjoy playing rather than rushing through, so I don't even notice. Grinding unconsciously!! OMG

Henches and heroes complement each other very well; the lower level of heroes is made up for by being able to choose their skill sets. I've never gotten to that point I saw one poor monk complaining in the RoT: "Help me with x quest my Dunkoro is only level 6!!" Because even if my Dunky were stuck at level 6, I'd have no trouble bringing him along for an easy corpse.

Where's the problem? There is no grind, it's just playing.

This game=no fun grind, which a lot of people consider good.

Grind in MMO means:

Required active gameplay time:
A normal skill: 50 hours
An elite skill: 150 hours
Basic armor (armor rating 50): 75 hours
Advanced armor (armor rating 100): 175 hours
Epic armor (armor rating 500): 2500 hours
Leet armor (armor rating 1000): 5000 hours
Next level: 2 hours ^ sqrt(previous_level) - level 2 = 2 hours, level 30 = 41 hours
Dungeons: see "Next level"
Advanced zones: see "Next level"
Using stuff: see "skills", "armor" and "next level"
For everything else, there's mastercard (or whatever eBay accepts).

In other words, these are the times required to do stuff. No more, no less. In GW, you can start playing on a new character, and be through the NF storyline in 30-ish hours. None of that is spent on grind of any kind.

Grind means you need to perform a certain irrelevant task sufficient number of times, before some counter allows you to progress.

And no, FoW is not grind. It gives you no benefits, it doesn't open any doors, it doesn't enable you to do anything whatsoever, it serves no purpose except being a money sink..
Levels in GW are not grind. If you honestly believe that levels are preventing you from progressing, then it's time to look under Monk/Protection Prayers. Levels are irrelevant, it's skills that matter.
Lightbringer/Sunspear ranks. Irrelevant. You have to try really really hard to *not* gain those as you progress normally through storyline.
Storyline a grind? Uh... Don't play PvE then. Because story is all there is. It's especially funny when players complain that story is a grind that's preventing them from getting a character to a later area where they could farm. Irony at its best.

But nothing at all will ever require you to spend time doing something just to advance. You do not need to raid an instance for 3 months to finally get the item that will allow you to enter an area or craft a better (stat-wise) armor.

Damn you! I came on here to pip in with my "enforced grinding is bad, mmkay" stuff and you say this. This is a rare thing on these forums. This is a VALID POINT. The only grinding we have is on noob island really (sunspear points aren't needed past sergeant and playing the nf campaign from the start gets you that anyways) and LB points are also un-needed (at a level 2 LB i finished the game really quite simply). Foreigners dont have sunspear grinds anymore and heroes start at level 15. If you are playing from the beginning in NF, your heroes will level along with you. To help them along, give the non-20 heroes your quest rewards from mainland cantha. 4,000 exp a quest will soon have them shooting up. It's how i have all level 20 heroes on all my pve characters.

Te grind has been all but taken out of gw now. If anything, the only real grind left is for titles and as they are for mainly prestige (and a testament to lack of social life) the grind is completely optional.

There is virtually no grind at all in GW and the only restriction you have in the game is favour. And personally, I think that's pretty groovy.

/signed at stupid amounts of grind such as gaining sunspear and lightbringer points

But I wouldnt personally say its a huge amount of work to gain the required sunspear rank to proceed in the game. Thats the easy bit. Its grinding once you reach that level and you want to get the next one. Especially as there is no way to do it.

Lightbringer is even worse, because you can reach the highest level but only after mind numbing grinding and boredem.

Anet makes statements that they dont like excessive farming in the same place, and then gives us grinding titles like this which required us to basically farm in the same location.

Logic?

I wouldnt mind grinding for points if it was fun. If you look at Factions and Fort Aspenwood. Its not perfect and it does get boring, but thats a fun way to gain faction points. Not just by repeatadly killing the same creature.

But thats part of playing an online game isnt it.

This game has no serious grind.

Prophecies was a long GRIND to level 20, IMO, you should be level 20 at the end of Pre-searing.

Factions was a lot faster, unluckilly, they shot themselves in the foot with the stupid quests in the city and the 10k faction requirement to get further in PvE storyline. Leveling was nice and quick.

Nightfall, more grind than Factions to level up, but still much less than Prophecies. Still having some grinding with Sunspear pionts and low level heroes. Sunspear points and heroes have been fixed for non-elonian characters though.

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So in terms of Guild Wars grinding:

Prophecies, Long grind.
Factions, Fast grind.
Nightfall, Medium/medium long grind.

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Just my thoughts.

You know, I noticed today that the quest "And a hero Shall lead Them" has as its requirements: achieve the rank of Sunspear General OR be a leader that kormir has recruited from overseas. I never saw an update note for this, but Canthan/Tyrian characters don't have to grind for teh Sunspear General title anymore, and Elonan characters who do even a few quests and hit the shrines along the way will have it by then without much difficulty.

One I DID see a note for is that foreign characters get heros at level 15 now (at least, the initial 4: Koss, Dunkoro, Melonni, and Tahlkora- Acolyte Jin was level 11 when I got her) and having a single level 15 hero required in a level 20 area isn't a huge handicap anymore.

Looks like ANET has actively taken steps to reduce the grind for NF. Sunspear points less of a problem, hero levelling less of a problem, and Lightbringer points are a bonus, they aren't required for anything really (but they make things easier.)

The quests of "run here, talk to person X, run 3 zones away, talk to person Y, run another 2 zones, kill boss Z" I don't consider grind, but a time sink. And most are skippable if you wish to skip them.

You're the exception to the rule because four weeks ago my warrior didn't have to.

The change was apparently implemented on December 1st. It seems that you just didn't notice the fact that the quest had updated and was telling you to go and speak with Koss, rather than to get to Sunspear General.

Grind?
I've been playing asian mmorpgs before this, i was killing one type of monster in one area with xp gain about 10% in 16 hours. It was a waste of time. The grind required in gw at start on nightfall just shows how lazy and comfortable you got and find it hard to give minimum effort to achieve something.
You might as well go watch movies, no effort or interaction there.
Seriously, people whine about anything.

Please, please be joking when you say that its grind to get your character to level 20 in prophercies?

Prophercies is great and thats the way leveling up should be. Not just giving level 20 away after a few missions and quests. Earning your level and your armor and your secondary doesnt equal grind. It equals putting effort in.

The only real grind in prophercies and all 3 games, are titles like treasure hunter and wisdom. But they have benefits, so their worth it.

Nightfall and Factions are the worst with stupid titles which require *** amount of faction or sunspear or lightbringer points. They dont even benefit you except the effects they have on their unique skills. But you max those out long before you reach the max title on it.

Personally the new system of titles is much better than close gate or running system. Because people can still get ran to the nearest outposts and not get a set of quests until they are a set rank within the organization. Lightbringer is a pain in the ass to get but you know, I have several friends who can already reach a decent level in a day. Sunspear isn't hard to attain if you just get some quests and burn them out.

This is not even close to the amount of grind to level or gain honor rankings in WoW. So seriously people, quite your whining, or just play the damn PvP edition.

I came from a korean game called RO, that was the epitome of grind. At near max level, it would take WEEKS to level up. To level up 1%(till the next level) in 1 hour was considered efficient leveling.

I think if anyone came from my background, you would never complain of the grind.

To the person that said Factions was better, your opinion sure, but don't you feel it wrecks it? I remember the first time I got to lvl 20 in Prophecies, the wide grin on my face as I recalled all I went through to get there, the storylines, everything, you kind of felt like you leveled up with your character, you feel that your character went through all the missions and became stronger.

I played Factions and really just did a double-take when I was lvl 20 in 2 days. I was left with disappointment and a lack of will to go on, as I was already lvl 20, and the idea of the missions getting harder by level appeals to me.

Haven't really played NF much, but Prophecies was the best IMO.

The storyline progress was done brilliantly.

And the biggest gripe I have against Factions. You have to buy skills. I really miss the skill quests from Prophecies, and really do hope that they will be more frequently implemented in coming chapters.

As a person that would rather play for story, then money, I liked to unlock things as I did the story, and these skills...just weren't there.

I know it was a pvp orientated expansion, but still, more skill quests would have been good.

Is that the same as NF too? I don't know, as I haven't progressed very far in NF.

NF is a slightly good blend of prophercies and factions.

20 missions compared to 13 in factions. Bonus missions mostly instead of timed. A farely decent storyline, although re-using old enemies was a bit of a cheat I think.

The leveling up is slower then factions, but it still doesnt feel as acomplished as prophercies. You just reach lvl20 at any given point, but it still feels meaningless.

There is no assention or similarties. It kind of goes from fairly easy to stupid hard at a given point and it just feels unbalanced in that sense.

It feels more structured and the Heroes are great and a god-send (i.e titan quests). But i feels gimicky to me. Prophercies still is, and always will be the best one. The problem is that you have players coming over from Factions or NF and saying.....

"why is it taking so long to reach lvl20, where are the max weapons and armor? I have to do what to change my secondary?"

....and winging about it.

NF also has two stupid grinding titles which do nothing for you other then effect the odd skill. They would be relatively easy to attain if there was a better, more fun way to do it. But at the moment you gain points from basically farming and grinding on creatures.

Anet why??????????

Anyone who's ever tried to get a respectable number of skills (even non-elite) in the game on any particular character realizes the grind involved.

People seem to think that playing the game = grind....

Grinding is when you have to kill the same monster over and over again 100's or 1000's of times in the same location for some really stupid purpose.

This does not exist in GW.

Yes you have to gain sunspear points, by doing quests and exploring the map picking up hunt blessings and killng things that are trying to kill you just for walking to close to them!

Yes you have to do quests to progress through the story and unlock missions...thats part of the game.

Yes you need to lvl up your char and your Hero's, bye playing the game, doing quests/missions. You end up with the right lvl at the right point in the game if you follow all quests and explore the world your adventureing in.

The lightbringer tittle that gives you added protection/dmg can be aquired in about 1-2 hours of exploring and picking up hunts/quests. You really don't require above rank 3 to beat the game with ease.

The ONLY grind in GW is to aquire tittles and high end armor. And there both optional, unneeded extras to give people that have completed all quests/missions something else other than pvp to do.

You can play the game, you can sit in cities and chat, you can lean back and watch on observer mod or you can walk away from the keyboard and do something else.

Please stop complaining about playing a game

You're right, it was a waste of time, how is this relevent then?

Also, so you're saying that killing 600 bugs somehow makes you a general and is a good idea to put into the game?

Technically, Guild Wars is a waste of time. So therefore, two wastes of time, are relevent to each other.

Also, to get Sunspear General, you don't have to keep killing the same monsters over and over. You can just do quests, and just have the bounties on while you do the quests. I have yet to do any grinding on my Paragon, yet I already got to Sunspear General. If I were to do all the remaining quests, and always have bounties on me while doing them, I would probably get about half way to Sunspear Castellan. After that, I might have to do some farming, however, it isn't nessicary that I do so.

His example wasn't relevent. He was saying that grinding was a waste of time and then saying this grinding WASN'T a waste of time, completely illogical. And fine, sure you can do a bunch of silly side quests, if you liek it that's cool. We're saying who the hell wants to HAVE to do that to progress the storyline?

You keep ignoring my statement that you don't have to grind to progress in the storyline. Grinding (as stated before) is when you kill the same few monsters in the same small area for hours. Doing a bunch of quests is not grinding, nor is doing PvP (i.e. Fort Aspenwood).

It took me all of an hour or so to go from Sunspear Commander to Sunspear General on my Paragon. All I did was quests while having the bounties active. That is far from a grind.

Er... no. My Tyrian Elem has a lvl2 Koss and a lvl6 Melonni in his party. The two heroes you get in Tyria and Cantha (Olias and Zenmai respectively) are lvl15, but the Elonian heroes are the same levels as NF characters get.

Some points were made that were invalid or open to interpretation.

First invalid point: three days ago I had to go out and complete a load of boring quests in order to gain Sunspear General so that I could advance the storyline. Whoever said that we don't need to gain sunspear points is wrong. That point is invalid. And since there have been no updates as of last night, it has not been changed. Only Tyrian and Canthan characters have no need of sunspear points. Still applies to Elonians.

First point open to interpretation: No serious grind in Guild Wars. Now I don't want to go off topic here, but that was a very broad statement, and deserves a broad response. Now I consider fow armor to require some serious grinding, and that would be labeled as EXTREME grind on my grind bar. I don't play World of Warcraft, Shadowbane, Runescape, or any other grind game because I hate grind. Most people who play Guild Wars feel the same. Also, we all know that titles are huge grind fests. Tell me if the Drunk title series is grind or not lol. 10,000 minutes drunk for Ale Hound is definitely grind. Sunspear points isn't as serious grind, but it's still grind nonetheless.

Another point open to interpretation: Some people seem to be misunderstanding what grind is. Grind is being forced to do something boring in order to get or do something fun in the game. That's how I define grind, and yes it is very broad for a reason. If I am playing a game, then I expect it to be fun. Games are supposed to be fun. Now if I am forced to do quests that are not, in fact, fun, then I am grinding. Some people believe that I was saying that I was going out and killing a ton of monsters. No, I was spending hours going out and completing quests I had no inclination to do.

I think the big misunderstanding in this particular thread is what people are defining as grind. And maybe I need to clarify what my problem is for those people stuck on their own definitions. The problem I've got is that we have to go out and do a ton of unnecessary things to get to the good parts of the game. The missions are what progresses the story and keeps things rolling, yet it is the quests, titles, and heroes we must wade through to get to the missions. Guild Wars was made to appeal to casual gamers, and casual gamers are people who like to jump into a game and get right to the juicy parts. Factions did an excellent job of this but Nightfall feels watered down. Maybe calling it grind is off, but being forced to go for titles I don't care about, do quests that are boring, and train NPCs so that I can DO the quests, missions, and titles is making for slow progress through a game we all expected to be about fast paced action.

wow. If this is grind (even Sunspear points) really need meds for ADD or SOMETHING. It's NOT hard. You'd have to rush off Istan faster than you can level properly to not get them in time with the main quests.

Honestly, why do you play the game if you don't enjoy quests? Doing the "pointless" side quests IS the game. It's story. It's action. it's exporation & challenge. That's the whole game! If you only enjoy the end, why play?

So you don't like doing quests? Then why are you playing Guild Wars? About half of the PvE content of the game is quests. Also, you seem to want it so that you don't have to work to get things. Your post says to me "I want to be able to get to the end game stuff because I like it better, but I hate having to do work to get it."

Seriously, Drunkard is a grind? How lazy are you? It is easy to work on the drunkard title while having a chat with others in game. I have had people drunk while doing missions with me. Heck, you can be drunk while you farm.

Doing quests in Guild Wars has long been a requirement in the game. Would you feel better if all those quests were labeled as primary quests instead?

Oh and about your last comment. If you want "fast paced action" go play a FPS. This is an ORPG (onling role playing game), it's not all about the action.

I never intend to make "attack" posts, but when I see a post that is so whinny and filled with opinions stated as though they are fact, I can't stand by and say nothing.

That would be bacause you got them before the update.

Hee hee....you think GW has grind?????

You should really play RO

Start a Lvl 1 Novice:
Lvl up to lvl 9. Heres the chart:

Level 1 : Can now initiate a trade with another character
Level 2 : Can now use emotions
Level 3 : Can now sit to double HP and SP regen rate
Level 4 : Can now create a chat room
Level 5 : Can now join a party
Level 6 : Can now use Kapra/Kafra Storage
Level 7 : Can now form a party
Level 8 : Can now enable PK (Player Killing)
Level 9 : Can now change class

Now you have your starter class (lets say Swordsman)

Now you lvl to lvl 40 and gain skills.

Once you reach lvl 40 to become either: Knight or a Crusader.

Now you lvl to reach 99 and become reborn into a High Novice.

Now you have to relevel to become a High Swordsman.

Now you do it all over again to become a Lord Knight or a Paladin.

Reach max lvl, and voila. You're ready to PvP.
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Imagine being a ranger, and having to kill enemies just to gather materials to make arrows.

Imagine being a monk and gathering healing potions.

Our weapons dont break.

We dont need potions, res items.

We dont need to dig into a 5 level dungeon just to kill 1 guy, who spawns once every 60 minutes, just to get a 5% chance for a drop of a MANDATORY item.

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Grind? What grind?

Grab a XP scroll and explore the map.

When you die, theres no XP penalty.

Try grinding that off! (*looks at her friends trying to drag her to D&D*)