Ranger Spike Reborn, by the PooP

some guy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

SPAWN CAMPING YOUR HOUSE

We Speed Clear H O H [ HsC]

04 Jan 2007 at 04:53 - 1

Ranger Spike Reborn
Skills and Attributes:

Damage Screenshots:

Below is the keen arrow hit

Below is the forked arrow hit

Below is the punishing shot hit

and finaly, the savage shot hit

Notes:

- You could go 16 marksmenship, at the moment i don't have a sup rune so i didn't try.
- Srry for the image size, flikr likes to resize them...
- For the last spot, place a rez, i had whirling because i forgot to switch.
- For bows, i used a 15^50 20/20 for the screenies.
- These tests are done on a AL 60 dummy, i also tested this with my friend, almost killing him in the process
- This is good in group.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

04 Jan 2007 at 12:02 - 2

Pretty goood build, I assume that your using a recurve bow, or maybe a hornbow.

some guy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

SPAWN CAMPING YOUR HOUSE

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04 Jan 2007 at 19:09 - 3

Nope, i actually used a long bow....

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

04 Jan 2007 at 19:54 - 4

Recurve is much better to interruption attacks, I recommend you use one. Much better bow for PvP.

Cathode_Reborn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 19:58 - 5

erm, I hope you're not usin a long or recurve bow when Read the wind is in your skillbar

. A Flat or Horn are the best and only bows that should be used with RtW.

anshin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 21:04 - 6

^yap

btw... test it on a 100 or 80 AL dummy... the higher the AL and the more dmg you give... more reliable it is

.....imho

Apple

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

N/Mo

04 Jan 2007 at 21:28 - 7

Rangerspike bows are and always have been Vampiric Hornbow/Sundering Longbow, so dont talk anything else, yo.

anshin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 21:38 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Apple]

Rangerspike bows are and always have been Vampiric Hornbow/Sundering Longbow, so dont talk anything else, yo.
he doesn't mention the kind of bow...

yo....

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

04 Jan 2007 at 22:48 - 9

but he says that he used a longbow. Well anyway, since I have a sundering shadow bow, I might try this out.

some guy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

SPAWN CAMPING YOUR HOUSE

We Speed Clear H O H [ HsC]

05 Jan 2007 at 01:26 - 10

Did some more testing on higher AL dummies.

on a 100 AL dummy, when keen arrow crits and with read the wind, the damage is 63, not counting the AP.

on 80 AL dummy, when keen arrow crits and with read the wind, the damage is 76, not counting the AP.

on 60 AL dummy, when keen arrow crits and with read the wind, the damage is 95, not counting the AP.

I used the same bow, 15^50 20/20 uncustomized long bow.

eggs0wn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

05 Jan 2007 at 01:38 - 11

I am going to test this but since I dont have Punishing Shot the Build I'm going to use is:

Burning Arrow
Savage Shot
Keen Arrow
Forked Arrow
Go For The Eyes
Find Their Weakness
Read the Wind
Res Sig

Attributes:
Marks-16
Expertise-10
Command-10
I'm planning on using a Zealous Recurve of Armor-15^50

Its pretty much the same but I didnt have the Beastial Fury or whatever that was. But with only Marks and Command skills your attributes aren't spread out at all. There is no healing or defense but in a PvE situation Ranger aren't generally targets. Now, Im off to test out the damage.

Edit: Im testing it and it is decent.

Keen Arrow does 90-100
Burning does 80-90
-still testing others-

But the Op's still seems a bit better. I'm gunna try a 20/20 bow next

Edit again: Eh, even with 20/20 the OP's seems to get more damage

some guy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

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05 Jan 2007 at 02:04 - 12

The IAS dosen't really mater that much, i only put it there for a comparison. In HA 4 rangers coordinating a spike will be deadly without an IAS, so i guess you can take it out and add in trolls or a self heal.

eggs0wn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

05 Jan 2007 at 02:16 - 13

Ya but adding Troll would mean points in WS and spread attrib. points out more. And I have a question, do the Corsairs in Venta Cemetary Mission have max armor level? Because with the build I posted I was hiting(Without Crit[GftE]) 102 with Keen Arrow and 104 (52+52) with Forked. It seemed ALOT better than on the dummies.

Dragonious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Hot Springs, AR

Dei Victorae [dV]

R/W

05 Jan 2007 at 02:30 - 14

That bar is not very good. You have way to many attack skills and not even a res....

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

05 Jan 2007 at 03:10 - 15

^

Wow.. so i hope you know he was testing skills out on a dummy.. last time I checked they dont hop off their post and come attack you. This is a concept of an old pvp style that isnt AS popular (I dont do much pvp dont come attacking me).

eggs0wn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

05 Jan 2007 at 20:13 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonious

That bar is not very good. You have way to many attack skills and not even a res.... Have you even tested it? Did you even read his post? He siad the Whirling could be replaced by Res Sig he just didn't have it when he posted teh screen shot. There aren't too many attack skills. Because it is a SPIKE you don't want to use regualr arrows but and attack. With the 4 or 5 or however many there is depending on the varation of the build you would run for the spike they all recharge after another so you always have one to use. I would know because I tested it on dummies and in a mission.

eggs0wn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

05 Jan 2007 at 20:13 - 17

double post =P

eggs0wn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

05 Jan 2007 at 20:14 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonious

That bar is not very good. You have way to many attack skills and not even a res.... Have you even tested it? Did you even read his post? He said the Whirling could be replaced by Res Sig he just didn't have it when he posted the screen shot. There aren't too many attack skills. Because it is a SPIKE you don't want to use regualer arrows , just attack skills. With the 4 or 5 or however many there is depending on the varation of the build you would run for the spike, they all recharge after another so you always have one to use. I would know because I tested it on dummies and in a mission.

Dragonious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Hot Springs, AR

Dei Victorae [dV]

R/W

05 Jan 2007 at 20:21 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggs0wn

Have you even tested it? Did you even read his post? He said the Whirling could be replaced by Res Sig he just didn't have it when he posted the screen shot. There aren't too many attack skills. Because it is a SPIKE you don't want to use regualer arrows , just attack skills. With the 4 or 5 or however many there is depending on the varation of the build you would run for the spike, they all recharge after another so you always have one to use. I would know because I tested it on dummies and in a mission. Ok I see the point on the res sig but what makes you think that you need 4 attack skills to do the job of 2-3? There are wasted slots...no getting around that. Tigers or Troll doesn't go well with good ranger spikers either. Trust me; I have played with and against great spikes.

Solus_the_Deadly

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Pop

06 Jan 2007 at 07:29 - 20

Doesn't seem that Strong enought really, for critical hits and on 60Al.

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

06 Jan 2007 at 08:36 - 21

Why read the wind, when you could use Kindle arrow for higher damage? You could decrease expertise and command to 9, marksmanship to 15, and place those points in WS for kindle.

Also, a touch off topic, but wouldn't the kill be more effecient at this point in the meta to stick to ranger strengths by adding a couple variations to builds in this particular spike?

For example, 1 ranger run a Burning Arrow Variation of the spike build. Savage+Kindle can spike just as well as Punishing, and with burning causing degen, you have a serious degen/damage hit occuring. 2 rangers could run the original build, making for more than enough damage/interupts between the 2 in the since of pure damage dealt.

The last ranger(4 man spike team) can be a degen ranger with a second variation of the Original build, using Apply and the Punishing/Savage build that was originally brought into play and discussion.

What I'm suggesting is that instead of just bringing a normal spike bring a degen spike build. I think you would find it more effective against coordinated teams by making them do more than just catch the spike.

jesh

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

San Diego, CA

Penguin Village

Mo/

06 Jan 2007 at 08:47 - 22

Burning Arrow doesn't have a half second cast time, or interrupt. Kindle doesn't make your arrows fly faster.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

06 Jan 2007 at 09:12 - 23

Running degen in a spike team is really not a good idea. The whole point of a spike is to deal sudden damage before the monk can react. Degen in this type of attack is completely pointless. If you want to kill someone by causing more damage than the monk can heal (i.e. pressure), then spike skills are better replaced by spammable skills.

Burning Arrow cannot spike as well as Punishing because Punishing can be used with Dual Shot or Forked Arrow and deal all damage at the same time when timed properly. Burning Arrow is simply too slow for ranger spike and even if a savage shot followup was used, it would be too little to make up for the damage list from not using Punishing. Also, the burning condition from Burning Arrow is completely useless in a Ranger Spike build since the spike should kill the target before there is a chance for any degen to take place. If it doesn't then the extra degen means nothing since it won't be enough to counter the healing that the target will get after the monks can react. Meladru's Shot would deal more damage and Prepared Shot would make the build more stable in terms of energy if needed.

With all this said, I still don't know if Ranger Spike will ever be enough to become as strong as it used to be, even with the new skills and possibilities. However, I'd like to be proven wrong.

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

06 Jan 2007 at 09:37 - 24

[skill=big]Burning Arrow[/skill]

[skill=big]Punishing Shot[/skill]

At Markmanship of 16, BA hits harder, recharges faster and is instantaneous. People who believe that punishing is better in a spike are dreaming. Since this forum is so stats driven, read the stats. You don't have to agree with my thought on kindle for reasons of a faster moving arrow by using RtW. I can understand that, as well as the total concept of "Spikes" or "Spiking", but the stats clearly show that punishing is inferior to burning arrow.

Also, a BA+Savage combo while under a Kindle prep will certainly do major spike damage against even the hardest targets. Going for total spike at this point where even smiting skills can deter a spike build from killing a target makes for a need for a change in conventional thinking. Play wack a monk all you want, but in the end, I'd rather have a mix of spike and pressure over a pure spike any day.

Sir Mad

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moe's Pub

Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]

06 Jan 2007 at 14:22 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I'd rather have a mix of spike and pressure over a pure spike any day. The point of a ranger spike is both to deal the maximum of damage as fast as possible, and to completely shut down your target. Yes Burning Arrow deals more damage than PunShot, but I'm sure you haven't forgotten PunShot is also an interrupt. Not to mention PunShot can be fired immediately, while Burning Arrow is fired as any normal attack. This 2.6 seconds advantage of PunShot is a lot in a spike.

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

06 Jan 2007 at 15:09 - 26

I understand the speed talk, but in action the use of BA on 1 ranger in a 4 man team while the other 3 use PS can be even better for the overall spike,imo, but that's my opinion.

Do as you wish in the end, for I just made a suggestion, and that is all it is. When the WoH monk or B Light monk saves the target and keeps it moving, none of it will matter anyway. Also, with every monk using Protective Spirit and Shield of Absorption in 1 way or another, the spike dream is very limited without added pressure.

But, please, I don't intend to throw this thread off. Talk more of spike builds.

some guy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

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06 Jan 2007 at 20:33 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

That is a good suggestion, 1 BA and 3 PS will do nicely.

lilnate22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

Runners of Fury

W/Mo

06 Jan 2007 at 21:02 - 28

is keen arrow even a good skill?? sry im not realy good w/ ranger skills

it seems good since ur doin 100sum dmg..

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

07 Jan 2007 at 00:53 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I understand the speed talk, but in action the use of BA on 1 ranger in a 4 man team while the other 3 use PS can be even better for the overall spike,imo, but that's my opinion. In a spike build, where kills are either executed in one or two seconds or not at all, what does 5 seconds of burning matter? I can understand wanting to have someone that can deal a heavy shot of damage, but Melandru's Arrow would fill this role better imo.

Do as you wish in the end, for I just made a suggestion, and that is all it is. When the WoH monk or B Light monk saves the target and keeps it moving, none of it will matter anyway. Also, with every monk using Protective Spirit and Shield of Absorption in 1 way or another, the spike dream is very limited without added pressure.[/QUOTE]

A good ranger spike will kill an opponent before most monks can cast Blight or WoH. This is why teams sometimes run with monks packing Infuse Health. However, with skills like Shadow Shroud, the real spike counter is "Incoming", not monk enchantments. With this being said, Ranger spike has been dead for a long time and I agree that there are still too many good counters to allow this to make a comeback.

jesh

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

San Diego, CA

Penguin Village

Mo/

07 Jan 2007 at 09:18 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

At Markmanship of 16, BA hits harder, recharges faster and is instantaneous.

When it says 0, that doesn't mean it's an instant cast. That means it has the same cast time as a regular attack skill. Punishing Shot is faster. You don't need 7 degen if your target is dead.

[skill=big]Executioner's Strike[/skill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilnate22

is keen arrow even a good skill?? sry im not realy good w/ ranger skills

it seems good since ur doin 100sum dmg.. Keen Arrow is a very nice skill. It has a low energy cost, and a very nice bonus, which is easily fulfilled in this build due to the use of "Go For The Eyes!" and high weapon mastery. At 16 marksman, Keen Arrow has a potential damage addition of 16+21=37. The only 2 other skills that powerful, to my knowledge, are Melandru's Shot and Marauder's Shot.

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

07 Jan 2007 at 23:25 - 31

Punishing Shot is only as effective as the skill placed ahead of it, as is the case when using Savage shot. The two aren't needed on all 4 rangers. That is my real point, since the spike has many counters anyway.

Also,what's up with executioner's strike on the above post?

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

08 Jan 2007 at 00:09 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Also,what's up with executioner's strike on the above post? I believe it was used as an example of an attack skill that had a 0 cast time listed, but still had a delayed activation limited by attack speed.

mathijn

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

holland

[PIKY]

08 Jan 2007 at 07:41 - 33

a good spike team, can kill a target within 1 sec.
if you use BA, you slow that down.

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

10 Jan 2007 at 01:37 - 34

A spike attack is more timing than just fast attacks alone. If you all dump at once and the monk casts protective spirit or now SoA, that guy is saved, no matter how fast you are with the spike.

Remember,SoA gets better with the more hits you land.