Balance through deletion of bad skills
False Truth
Another thing that doesn't make sense, is people blindly agreeing with your recommended suggestion without even giving a hint of why. Can this be explained a bit further please? You can freely insult my intelligence if you want, but I'm just asking for more explanation.
DeanBB
Lets make it even easier, delete everything except warriors and monks. Then reduce them to 8 skills each. That should do the trick.
Cracko
@Yan: Your saying AB's FA and JQ suck, oh wait.. RA? yaaahh..
beanerman_99
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Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart
Ugh someone close this pointless thread!
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Best idea of this whole thread. /signed
Skyy High
Either you're an idiot, or a troll.
In case of idiocy: care to explain why pets, shouts, spirits, and minions are all stupid gameplay mechanics? Also, care to explain why you think that high level gvg seems to be the ONE AND ONLY game type that matters at all, and that skills that don't see play there are automatically trash?
In case of trolling: GTFO.
In case of idiocy: care to explain why pets, shouts, spirits, and minions are all stupid gameplay mechanics? Also, care to explain why you think that high level gvg seems to be the ONE AND ONLY game type that matters at all, and that skills that don't see play there are automatically trash?
In case of trolling: GTFO.
Yanman.be
I never said AB FA AND JQ suck. But they're clearly PvE. And RA is not high-end PvP. (No wonder I own that place! )
Ebony Shadowheart
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
ALL skills for PvE.
Limited amount for high-end PvP. So your AB's and FA and JQ will remain open to all skills. BUT! All skills in the pvp deck will be balanced thoroughly, and that balance will affect PvE too. |
Perynne
Basically you just want to suck all the useful skills out of PvE. I have a ranger, a ritualist and an assassin, and deleting the skills you suggested would completely destroy the builds I use.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but the game is not just about PvP, there's a large amount of players who are not into hacking other players. For them, the rich variety of skills is only a good thing.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but the game is not just about PvP, there's a large amount of players who are not into hacking other players. For them, the rich variety of skills is only a good thing.
Cracko
I dont see the point how this can ever help us. Not posting anymore, If you cant find the skills between ~150 skills of each profession, maybe you should learn some alphabetics.
cr3ature
like the idea, do think some skills would need a reconsidering, and would also like atleast a few more skills option per line (around 10-15 per attribute line)
hmm, posting something that would actually make the game better, probably dont work when you have with PvE'ers, that start to whine when the AI of the monsters get better, same with this, the PvE noobs that have their godlike skills like BackFire, aura of the lich and mending
hmm, posting something that would actually make the game better, probably dont work when you have with PvE'ers, that start to whine when the AI of the monsters get better, same with this, the PvE noobs that have their godlike skills like BackFire, aura of the lich and mending
MirkoTeran
Perfect time to use "Standard Flame Reply (tm)"
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Dear: [ ] Clueless Newbie [X] Lamer [ ] AOLer [ ] "Me too" er [ ] Pervert [ ] Geek [ ] Spammer [ ] Nerd [ ] Elvis [ ] Fed [ ] Freak [ ] Cryogenic [ ] Scammer [X] Troller [X] Pre-teen You Are Being Flamed Because: [ ] You posted MODs in pieces LESS than 5000 lines [ ] You posted something asking for warez sites [ ] You quoted an ENTIRE post in your reply [ ] You continued a long, stupid thread [X] You started an off-topic thread [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message [X] You posted a blatantly obvious troll [ ] You posted pretending to be someone famous (See "troll" above) [ ] You said "me too" to something [X] You make no sense [ ] Your sig/alias/server is dreadful [ ] You posted a phone-sex ad [ ] You posted a stupid pyramid money making scheme and claimed it was legal [ ] You posted in ElItE CaPiTaLs because you think that makes you cool [ ] You didn't do anything specific, but appear to be so generally worthless that you are being flamed anyway To Repent, You Must: [X] Give up your AOL account [X] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it [X] Tell your Mommy to increase your medication [X] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor [ ] Actually post something relevant [ ] Read the FAQ [X] Be the guest of honor in alt.flame for a month In Closing, I'd Like to Say: [ ] Get Wrecked [ ] Get a life [ ] Never post again [ ] Age 10 more years before you post again [ ] I pity your dog [ ] Go tell your mother/father/test tube they failed [ ] Yer momma's so fat/stupid/ugly that etc... [ ] Take your gibberish somewhere else [ ] Get a clue, you pathetic loser [ ] Learn to post or get off the internet [X] All of the above |
beanerman_99
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Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart
I don't see how this would help. You'll end up with cookie cutter builds, and gimmicks that you may be unable to counter due to limited skills. Even balanced completely (and this really isn't very likely) variety is the 'spice to life'. Yes pvpers in general perfer certain skills and there are certains skills that counter them, etc but how do you ever figure out if there is anything better if you dont have variety and options? Perhaps I just don't get it b/c I'm not a hardcore pvper atm.
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This thread is pointless.
martialis
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Note that this isn't my personal opinion, as I love gimmicks, but this is just a proposal to satisfy what seems to be the vast majority of players who want a small meta with true balance. 3 | Sunspear Rebirth Signet | 1 |
10/10
Sister Brianne
Mending is used in PvP....Mystic Wrath spike...so HA!
Trevor Reznik
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Either you're an idiot, or a troll.
In case of idiocy: care to explain why pets, shouts, spirits, and minions are all stupid gameplay mechanics? Also, care to explain why you think that high level gvg seems to be the ONE AND ONLY game type that matters at all, and that skills that don't see play there are automatically trash? In case of trolling: GTFO. |
In case you guys didn't notice-this is for GvG balance. All other balance is irrelevant.
Now you gtfo.
lagrand1
At first I thought OP was joking, but when I saw how much time he put into the list, I think he's actually serious. Now I'm not one to flame, but with all due respect, this the single dumbest idea I've seen in a long time. And I said "with all due respect" so it wasn't flaming.
miles
First off i thought i had to set this straight...
do you realise who you are talking to/lecturing? Trevor was in the guild who MADE fast cast air spike. Im sure he knows much more than he ever wanted to about the air line, aswell as how damn good ele attune can be.
you originally are saying that a large skill list is justified by gimicky builds being beaten by a more gimicky counter skill? and your last sentence about pvp becoming a faster infuse health... so, if the skills were deleted as trevor suggested than every single game will become a spike somehow? wow
if you think AB are pvp, think glimmer of mark is a viable skill or that the game in general is balanced, dont even bother reading my post because it will only anger you further...
as for the 4 ppl remaining, With the release of each new update all these skills have become a nusiance to the rest of the game as trevor has pointed out. Although his skill list may not be the best, it should at the very least give a general idea of what should be purposed/done to this rapidly declining game that we know and love. This game is great, just some of these new skills have diverted attention away from certain things in the game that really need looked at, and i think that this would be a turning point in allowing Anet a chance in getting to those more dificult tasks.
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Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart
So you're saying ALL those skills need to be deleted?
Yeah right. I know many people that use quite a few of those skills. You just essentailly said the all warriors should be sword because you want most of all the axe and hammer skills removed. Obviously you don't like air eles, there go the air skills. Ele attune used in conjunction with a specific attune (ie fire attune) makes it near impossible to run out of energy, except in certain cases such as energy sapping mesmers or spamming flare (5e spells). No spirits or pets or chants or shouts? Why don't we just delete the entire factions and nightfall games while you're at it? We'll just have prophecies and it'll be all good. /roll eyes The skills are there for a reason. Just because YOU don't use them, or feel they are useful to you does not mean that everyone else feels the same way. There are several on that list that I use and that many people I know use. Hell, just watching people in AB, I see quite a few of those used. Take Verata's Aura, its a great example. Necros (and several other classes with necro 2ndary) are forever stealing minions in AB. No, its not all that useful in general PvE or hardcore PvP, but it does have it's place. You completely snuffed out sins, rits, dervish, and paragons. You've removed MMs and so many other builds that I've lost count. No more bonders, or prot monks....heck looks like you want to remove essentially everything. What would be the point in playing if you dont have options? |
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Originally Posted by Redly
So sorry Trevor... I don't feel that your idea is consistent with a basic philosophy of the game.
As a PvPer, doesn't it give you a sense of pride when you master some new combo or build, or if you come up with something you've never seen in play before? Even if some skills start rolling through metagame, it's usually easy enough to create a counter for it. As a crude example, Searing Flames recently became the new flavor--and yet, with some silliness such as Mantra of Flame, Frigid Armor, or liberal use of Cautery Signet or Martyr and the like, it becomes easy enough to roll through for even the more PvE Scrub guilds. Balance may be easier with fewer skills, but it would also arguably be better if we removed weapon choices for the warrior, or even entire professions. That doesn't make it the answer, however. PvP would be reduced to nothing but a test in who can execute the faster Infuse Health. -_- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ P.S. That list is so confusing at first... |
if you think AB are pvp, think glimmer of mark is a viable skill or that the game in general is balanced, dont even bother reading my post because it will only anger you further...
as for the 4 ppl remaining, With the release of each new update all these skills have become a nusiance to the rest of the game as trevor has pointed out. Although his skill list may not be the best, it should at the very least give a general idea of what should be purposed/done to this rapidly declining game that we know and love. This game is great, just some of these new skills have diverted attention away from certain things in the game that really need looked at, and i think that this would be a turning point in allowing Anet a chance in getting to those more dificult tasks.
leprekan
NO WAY! I can't lose headbutt it is the elite all my monks use.
Alya
Really? Do you really think that Blessed Aura, Mending, Dodge, Serpent's Quickness, Purge Conditions, Spell Breaker must be DELETED? Thanks, you've just killed my most successful Southern Shiverpeak runner.
Why do you PvPers think that if some skills are not used in PvP, they ought to be completely eradicated? There are other things in GW apart from PvPing, if you have not noticed it yet...
I don't even want to discuss this seriously.
Why do you PvPers think that if some skills are not used in PvP, they ought to be completely eradicated? There are other things in GW apart from PvPing, if you have not noticed it yet...
I don't even want to discuss this seriously.
Sister Brianne
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Originally Posted by beanerman_99
One skill HAS to be slightly better than another or there would be no winning. You would seriously just stand around looking at each other because your skills would totally negate each other.
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The game would come down to who could play the one available build the best.
Creativeness, ingenuity, and most thinking would be removed however.
Yanman.be
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Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
Perfect time to use "Standard Flame Reply (tm)"
[X] You started an off-topic thread |
Ebony, skills like minions and several other skills PvP'ers would never take ( Elite defense skills for instance: Gladiator's Defense, Defy pain, etc. ) are not worth keeping balanced anymore. Just kick'm out of the PvP deck.
Ebony Shadowheart
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Originally Posted by cr3ature
like the idea, do think some skills would need a reconsidering, and would also like atleast a few more skills option per line (around 10-15 per attribute line)
hmm, posting something that would actually make the game better, probably dont work when you have with PvE'ers, that start to whine when the AI of the monsters get better, same with this, the PvE noobs that have their godlike skills like BackFire, aura of the lich and mending |
Some balancing of certain skills may help, but the answer is not to simply remove a skill that you, or the op, decide you just dont like. They have their purpose and reason for being included in the game in the first place, else the developers wouldn't have included them, now would they?
You're bitching about PvE'ers whining when PvPers do just as much of it when updates come around or when someone suggests something for them. I do believe there where several threads not too long ago about pvpers bitching (loudly) about HoH being switching to 6 players instead of 8.
Just because someone enjoys PvE does not make them a noob. Everyone has their own personal taste. Considering you even choose to use that terminology speaks eloquently for your maturity level, or lack there of.
Again, I state, that just because you dont like a skill, or cannot use it properly does not mean that everyone else agrees with you. There are people that can make skills that YOU don't like work (IE Backfire, Firestorm, Mending, etc).
black_mischief
I think Anet should consider hiring Trevor as their lead skill balancer/interior decorator. I think the concept of a minimalist game (less skills) and a minimalist office design is important to Anet and probably overlooked.
I think turning GW into a game of only 2 skills like RoF and Bsurge might be worth exploring.
I think turning GW into a game of only 2 skills like RoF and Bsurge might be worth exploring.
Aleks
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Originally Posted by Trevor Reznik
Pets, minions, and some spirits are all AI. AI in a game that pits players against players is a bad idea. It's not controllable, and leads to frustration in fighting against and alongside it.
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beanerman_99
wow. Miles and Trevor. I just don't understand you at all. To me (and I am not trying to attack you) it sounds like you just can't adapt or cope with the new skills and are mad because you are now loosing at GvG or something. Cause I don't understand how having just a few skills per class can make the game more fun at all!!! Sounds like it would get boring as hell REALLY fast!
Estic
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Originally Posted by lagrand1
At first I thought OP was joking, but when I saw how much time he put into the list, I think he's actually serious.
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I am all for the closing of this thread.
Jim1
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Originally Posted by miles
do you realise who you are talking to/lecturing? Trevor was in the guild who MADE fast cast air spike.
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BTW, I heard half of the TGH mods like little boys. Dunno if it's true or just a rumour tho'
miles
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Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart
You need to be smacked. Seriously.
Some balancing of certain skills may help, but the answer is not to simply remove a skill that you, or the op, decide you just dont like. They have their purpose and reason for being included in the game in the first place, else the developers wouldn't have included them, now would they? You're bitching about PvE'ers whining when PvPers do just as much of it when updates come around or when someone suggests something for them. I do believe there where several threads not too long ago about pvpers bitching (loudly) about HoH being switching to 6 players instead of 8. Just because someone enjoys PvE does not make them a noob. Everyone has their own personal taste. Considering you even choose to use that terminology speaks eloquently for your maturity level, or lack there of. Again, I state, that just because you dont like a skill, or cannot use it properly does not mean that everyone else agrees with you. There are people that can make skills that YOU don't like work (IE Backfire, Firestorm, Mending, etc). |
miles
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Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart
You need to be smacked. Seriously.
Some balancing of certain skills may help, but the answer is not to simply remove a skill that you, or the op, decide you just dont like. They have their purpose and reason for being included in the game in the first place, else the developers wouldn't have included them, now would they? You're bitching about PvE'ers whining when PvPers do just as much of it when updates come around or when someone suggests something for them. I do believe there where several threads not too long ago about pvpers bitching (loudly) about HoH being switching to 6 players instead of 8. Just because someone enjoys PvE does not make them a noob. Everyone has their own personal taste. Considering you even choose to use that terminology speaks eloquently for your maturity level, or lack there of. Again, I state, that just because you dont like a skill, or cannot use it properly does not mean that everyone else agrees with you. There are people that can make skills that YOU don't like work (IE Backfire, Firestorm, Mending, etc). |
Total Rogue
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| Pets, minions, and some spirits are all AI. AI in a game that pits players against players is a bad idea. It's not controllable, and leads to frustration in fighting against and alongside it. Shouts and defensive spirits are mindless. A half brained monkey could plop out spirits with rit lord, or stand in the middle of his team and spam his shout buttons on recycle. Furthermore, shouts can't be removed, nor even seen by allies or enemies. Thus, minions/pets are stupid mechanics because they rely on AI to win the fight for you, and spirits and shouts require minimal skill to use. |
OH oops! how do we win!? Using NPC's to your advantage is part of the metagame - games have become longer to utilise the advantage of NPC's at VoD. With the introduction of paragons+some nice monk skills, teams are much more defensive than before. Deleting all things AI in pvp would mean you'd have 3 hour long battles with neither team killing anything.
OH WAIT! your solution was to DELETE half of the defensive skills in the game. To bad you countered yourself by deleting half of the offensive skills too. (still left with 3 hour battles).
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| Pets, minions, and some spirits are all AI. |
Ebony Shadowheart
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Ebony, skills like minions and several other skills PvP'ers would never take ( Elite defense skills for instance: Gladiator's Defense, Defy pain, etc. ) are not worth keeping balanced anymore. Just kick'm out of the PvP deck.
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I don't know anything about Glads def or Defy Pain since I don't have my wars built yet, so I can't argue those lol. If they don't keep them balanced in PvE as well, wheres the challange? Obviously killing monsters in one hit isn't all that fun so balance between skills and environment is just as important as balance between skills for pvp.
unienaule
1) This is a suggestion, and don't just throw any crap you want in Riverside.
2) This is a flamefest.
3) The pure stupidity exhibited in this thread along with the "OH NOES PvE vs PvE OR DIE" is completely moronic.
Byebye.
2) This is a flamefest.
3) The pure stupidity exhibited in this thread along with the "OH NOES PvE vs PvE OR DIE" is completely moronic.
Byebye.