on the other side is windwalkers +15 armor also not bad...Please share your thoughts ;>
Which insignia for the dervish?
drupal
I always played ranger and armor isn't the most important thing because you don't stand at the frontline. I have no clue what i shut put on my dervish, 25 energy isn't very much since there is no expertise and some spells are in the range of 10-15e on the other side is windwalkers +15 armor also not bad...
Please share your thoughts ;>
on the other side is windwalkers +15 armor also not bad...Please share your thoughts ;>
NinjaKai
I think it comes down to your build at the end of the day. I mean I use builds that have Zealous Vow as my elite. This allows me to use more enchants in a short space of time. As such I use Windwalkers armor because I can normally maintain the enchants I use keeping the extra armor bonus.
Basically think about what type of build you'll be using then think about what insignia would best accompany that build.
Basically think about what type of build you'll be using then think about what insignia would best accompany that build.
Paperfly
Dervishes generally don't need a high maximum energy rating unless they're using Avatar of Melandru with it's 25E cost.
I would recommend a +armour set (probably blessed, but whatever works best with your build) for at least chest and leggings. Hands and feet can be radiant, but that may not be necessary - unless you're offloading a longish attack combo maximum energy is less relevant than your recharge rate. I'd personally suggest Survivor's, and if you're having energy issues test with a Zealous scythe first before fiddling with your armour.
Late edit: I can't believe I actually spelt it Avater!
I would recommend a +armour set (probably blessed, but whatever works best with your build) for at least chest and leggings. Hands and feet can be radiant, but that may not be necessary - unless you're offloading a longish attack combo maximum energy is less relevant than your recharge rate. I'd personally suggest Survivor's, and if you're having energy issues test with a Zealous scythe first before fiddling with your armour.
Late edit: I can't believe I actually spelt it Avater!
Kijik Oni Hanryuu
I just use my skills to buff armor conviction>all and I pump my energy out the wazoo with radiant insigs.
Vexed
I find with my derv I'm nearly always using Faithful Intervention and about 75% of the time I'm using Conviction.
Considering how enchantment-reliant the dervish is, it seems foolish not to let your armor reflect that and use blessed insignias, but +armor in stance could be just as useful depending on the builds you run, as stance removal isn't quite as prevalent as enchant removal.
I really don't see the benefit to +energy armor, dervishes have great e-management built in. I'll take smart e-management over a higher starting energy pool any day of the week. You can always focus swap if you get DP and need to use your avatar.
Considering how enchantment-reliant the dervish is, it seems foolish not to let your armor reflect that and use blessed insignias, but +armor in stance could be just as useful depending on the builds you run, as stance removal isn't quite as prevalent as enchant removal.
I really don't see the benefit to +energy armor, dervishes have great e-management built in. I'll take smart e-management over a higher starting energy pool any day of the week. You can always focus swap if you get DP and need to use your avatar.
Seef II
Blessed or Survivor's. Radiant is fine for PvE too.
strcpy
Blessed has +10 armor while enchanted, windwalker has +5 armor per enchant up to +15. For many dervishes Windwalkers will give 5 more defense - I know mine usually has 3 or more on her.
I do not find radiant to be that useful. Dervish skills are cheap, mysticism gives a good bonus (and usually when you are needing it - to replace an enchant that has gone off), and our regen generally takes care of everything else. Though if you are running low on energy then radiant makes sense - as was said above a few Melandru builds can benefit from it quite a bit.
Personally Windwalkers is my choice. I also use a rune of Vitae as the extra rune instead of an attunement - energy has almost never been a problem and the few times it has the extra wouldn't help (I'm getting hit by a mesmer that is going to drain my energy one way or another).
I do not find radiant to be that useful. Dervish skills are cheap, mysticism gives a good bonus (and usually when you are needing it - to replace an enchant that has gone off), and our regen generally takes care of everything else. Though if you are running low on energy then radiant makes sense - as was said above a few Melandru builds can benefit from it quite a bit.
Personally Windwalkers is my choice. I also use a rune of Vitae as the extra rune instead of an attunement - energy has almost never been a problem and the few times it has the extra wouldn't help (I'm getting hit by a mesmer that is going to drain my energy one way or another).
Servant of Kali
Windwalker insignia is the best in 99% cases.
If your build doesnt use many enchants for some reason (for instance my Zealous Vow build, or Vow of Strenght etc), you can use Blessed one, but that shouldnt be in more than 1% cases. Windwalker is uber, use it if possible.
Radiant insignia doesnt help much from what i saw. If you're using Melandru, simply have +30e wand/foci on a switch (and in case you get DP). Dont get fooled by max energy Dervish has; it's all you're gonna need in 99% cases.
Avoid Survivor. It's useless on a Dervish. If you're Dervish you're:
1) enchant heavy
2) offense-heavy
There's no time for warrior style of tanking. If you're tanking do it with enchants, and in PvE you'll tank 3x better than warrior and do 3x more dmg. Again, Survivor is useless IMO.
In conclusion, a Dervish without enchants is a bad Dervish. That's why you need Windwalker or Blessed and nothing else. If you dont use any enchants, start thinking on why you're playing Dervish instead of some other profession.
Oh, also, a bit offtopic - a Dervish without secondary profession is a bad Dervish. Im saying this because i've seen those who dont use secondary profession (in RA) or skill (in PvE). There are many non-Dervish skills which have awesome synergy with Dervish - pick one. If nothing else pick warrior for wildblow, or monk for RoF and prot spirit spam. Options are endless.
If your build doesnt use many enchants for some reason (for instance my Zealous Vow build, or Vow of Strenght etc), you can use Blessed one, but that shouldnt be in more than 1% cases. Windwalker is uber, use it if possible.
Radiant insignia doesnt help much from what i saw. If you're using Melandru, simply have +30e wand/foci on a switch (and in case you get DP). Dont get fooled by max energy Dervish has; it's all you're gonna need in 99% cases.
Avoid Survivor. It's useless on a Dervish. If you're Dervish you're:
1) enchant heavy
2) offense-heavy
There's no time for warrior style of tanking. If you're tanking do it with enchants, and in PvE you'll tank 3x better than warrior and do 3x more dmg. Again, Survivor is useless IMO.
In conclusion, a Dervish without enchants is a bad Dervish. That's why you need Windwalker or Blessed and nothing else. If you dont use any enchants, start thinking on why you're playing Dervish instead of some other profession.
Oh, also, a bit offtopic - a Dervish without secondary profession is a bad Dervish. Im saying this because i've seen those who dont use secondary profession (in RA) or skill (in PvE). There are many non-Dervish skills which have awesome synergy with Dervish - pick one. If nothing else pick warrior for wildblow, or monk for RoF and prot spirit spam. Options are endless.
Shoitaan
I believe I have 3 radiants and 2 windwalkers. Gives me 30max energy and upto +30armour which serves me quite well 
drupal
Ok, thx. I just bought a zealous mod for my scythe, I hope that solves the problem. I'll buy Windwalker because I tank a lot.
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Originally Posted by Servant of Kali
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Thanks for your help
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Originally Posted by Shoitaan
I believe I have 3 radiants and 2 windwalkers. Gives me 30max energy and upto +30armour which serves me quite well
Two Windwalkers don't double your armor ^^ The problem is that the radiant insignia gives the most energy on the chest and the chest is one of the most attacked parts.
NinjaKai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Servant of Kali
Oh, also, a bit offtopic - a Dervish without secondary profession is a bad Dervish. Im saying this because i've seen those who dont use secondary profession (in RA) or skill (in PvE). There are many non-Dervish skills which have awesome synergy with Dervish - pick one. If nothing else pick warrior for wildblow, or monk for RoF and prot spirit spam. Options are endless.
It is possible to find synergy with a professions skills without needing a secondary. It all depends on what you want your build to achieve. That and if your smart enough to spend the time to make and test your builds. I just made a build for Dervish recently which has pretty good synergy using all of the Dervish attributes.
Servant of Kali
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
It is possible to find synergy with a professions skills without needing a secondary. It all depends on what you want your build to achieve. That and if your smart enough to spend the time to make and test your builds. I just made a build for Dervish recently which has pretty good synergy using all of the Dervish attributes.
Let's put it this way: I havent seen a single Dervish build yet, which would not have been better with the addition of one or more secondary Dervish skills.
Im not saying it's not possible, but i dont know of it. If you made one, im curious to see it Is it for PvP or PvE, post skills, u can PM me with it.
Str0b0
The only skill I use from my secondary is a hard res. The build is posted under the Ebon Dust Aura build thread.
Paperfly
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In conclusion, a Dervish without enchants is a bad Dervish. That's why you need Windwalker or Blessed and nothing else. If you dont use any enchants, start thinking on why you're playing Dervish instead of some other profession.
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Scythe attack builds (who'll be wearing Faithful Intervention and Heart of Fury), condition spreading builds, and even builds that recycle/remove their own enchants a lot are perfectly viable and will average one-two enchantments most of the time, not three.
Servant of Kali
Let's put it this way. If you're playing Scythe, you need Heart of Fury in 99% builds. It's the best IAS in the game. So, that's one enchant. Now, you only need 1 more enchant to get 10armor bonus for windwalker. Shouldnt be a problem.
Therefore windalker is best in 99% cases. in 0.1% cases u might need to use Blessed. But i would still like to see good dervish build with only one enchant.
Therefore windalker is best in 99% cases. in 0.1% cases u might need to use Blessed. But i would still like to see good dervish build with only one enchant.
Str0b0
I generally keep about 3 enchants on me at all times if not more. First run into an battle I have 5 enchants on me. That's using an Ebon Dust Aura Scythe build
drupal
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Originally Posted by Servant of Kali
Im not saying it's not possible, but i dont know of it. If you made one, im curious to see it Is it for PvP or PvE, post skills, u can PM me with it.
D/any Forge Runner, the FoW tank... very good builds without needing the second profession.
I have no problem using 3 or more enchants. Faithful Intervention/Heart of Fury, Mystic Vigor and Mystic Regeneration are always up.
Is it for PvP or PvE, post skills, u can PM me with it.
D/any Forge Runner, the FoW tank... very good builds without needing the second profession.I have no problem using 3 or more enchants. Faithful Intervention/Heart of Fury, Mystic Vigor and Mystic Regeneration are always up.
ensoriki
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Wind walker is nice and all, but if its about energy management a good combo is
Arcane zeal+ meditation +zealous renewal
Pious renewal+meditation/other enchant
Zealous vow....From what highest energy Regeneration in game if all conditions are met
ss1986v2
wind walker if you want the armor bonus and radiant if your build is energy intensive. you should have at least two enchants as a dervish, making it just as good as blessed with the potential to be better.
as for the secondary issue, the dervish has some of the best in-class synergy in its lines of most any class, just as good as warriors. dipping into your secondary is fine (i love RoF along with mending touch), but you can run a perfectly fine build without ever touching your secondary:
avatar of choice
enchant of choice
enchant of choice
mystic regen
conviction/attack skill
attack skill
attack skill
rez
and ta da! you have a derv that can sustain itself through normal pve pressure without needing a monk to babysit him and that still is able to pump out plenty of dmg. and no secondary needed, unless you just have to have a reusable rez. i tend to have melee classed bring sigs for quick combat rezes, and leave it to the monks and support characters to handle after battle rezing.
as for the secondary issue, the dervish has some of the best in-class synergy in its lines of most any class, just as good as warriors. dipping into your secondary is fine (i love RoF along with mending touch), but you can run a perfectly fine build without ever touching your secondary:
avatar of choice
enchant of choice
enchant of choice
mystic regen
conviction/attack skill
attack skill
attack skill
rez
and ta da! you have a derv that can sustain itself through normal pve pressure without needing a monk to babysit him and that still is able to pump out plenty of dmg. and no secondary needed, unless you just have to have a reusable rez. i tend to have melee classed bring sigs for quick combat rezes, and leave it to the monks and support characters to handle after battle rezing.
Servant of Kali
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Originally Posted by drupal
Dunno, if you're talking about Forge quest (havent done other areas in FoW with Dervish sry), then D/Mo with Dwayna for me, beats Balthazar or anything i've seen other people play. You'll get tons of hex on you, which monk cant as efficiently remove in a fast way (without wasting too much energy) - and you can spam RoF and other stuff constantly to remove them. Having no hexes on your when you're fighting first groups, then in the cave, and near forge guy himself, means you can kill stuff much faster, survive better, and not be a threat to any tank near you (if there's one, and there shouldnt be). Not to mention that mending touch is priceless sometimes.
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2) Reapers sweep. Uh, no. Melandru+Wearying is great, and there's no reason not to use it. Reaper's is more of a PvP than PvE skill. You're not spiking anyone. It has 8sec recharge and u need to wait for target to get below 50%. Geez. For every single creature in PvE? No. Just take Melandru and spam Wearying, it's the only attack skill you need then since it has 2sec recharge.
Melandru has about a 60 second cool down while I have two useless slots. If I happen to not wipe everything in 60 seconds (common in late end areas) I can do almost nothing for the next 60. I clear the domain of pain in about 2/3 the time with what I wrote vs the Melandru combination.
I don't give a flip about the deep wound I want the +40. Besides I've never found Deep Wound to be a terribly useful PvE condition - mobs drop too quickly for it to matter, 4.5 seconds vs 5 seconds is irrelevant.
At my attribute points spread AoM and Wearying strike have 59 second up, 61 seconds down - a two minute cycle. So over those two minutes (assuming constantly spamming the strike while AoM is up) is 930 extra damage (60 second of AoM up, 31 damage every two seconds during that, 60 second down time). My combination (same assumption - 120 min cycles but I can spam them the whole cycle) gives me 1530 extra damage. Still get the deep wound so those cancel, and in mine I also gain quite a bit of health. If the monk hench wouldn't bother trying to strip the weakness from you you could continue to spam Wearying strike and keep about the same over all damage (when you factor in the weakness on the normal attacks), as is the hench or hero does and they waste quite a bit of energy.
Short duration fights with large gaps between them really favor the AoM build. Long duration or dense groups where you do not need to wait for AoM to recharge mine has the higher damage. One can add an attack skill to use while AoM is down to get the AoM damage back higher, but I find my tanking ability to be severely reduced by doing so - especially in torment or other higher end areas. Since I'm currently farming Lightbringer points that tends to be important.
So, if you want to use Signet of Return, sure, np. It's good on attacker with little energy, but if you want optimal setup then it's Rebirth in PvE. It's the ultimate PvE rez because in a lot of areas enemy can block your dead party members and u cant rez then with Return, they will get instantly killed again.
Besides, even if you use Signet of Return, it's still a skill from another profession, so it proves my point.
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Melandru has about a 60 second cool down
Yes but it gets better with higher mysticism, whereas Reapers Sweep doesnt get better with higher scythe, it still has same recharge.|
Arcane zeal+ meditation +zealous renewal Pious renewal+meditation/other enchant Meditation is a bad skill which needs a buff. Arcane Zeal + Zealous Renewal is a horrible skill combination in my oppinion. If you're attacking you're not casting spells, and if you're casting spells you're not attacking. If you're not attacking Renewal is bad, and if you're not casting spells you're wasting elite. If you're doing bit of both you're wasting both skills and their potential. Quote:
Dude, some skills are bad no matter what you ate for breakfast, what cell phone you use, or what heroes you take with you. If you use Mending, there is absolutely no skill combinations in PvE known to mankind, which will make it good for normal combat use, with any hero combination.
That being said: 1) Paragon rez? A what? You're going to rez someone with... 5% health? In combat, he's going to die. Out of combat, there are better rezes, such as Rebirth for instance, which will rez your teammates out of aggro rings. 2) Reapers sweep. Uh, no. Melandru+Wearying is great, and there's no reason not to use it. Reaper's is more of a PvP than PvE skill. You're not spiking anyone. It has 8sec recharge and u need to wait for target to get below 50%. Geez. For every single creature in PvE? No. Just take Melandru and spam Wearying, it's the only attack skill you need then since it has 2sec recharge. Quote: |
Well it's interesting how you recognized yourself and got concerned... How come some others didnt feel as endangered?
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
Servant of Kali I invite you to peruse my Ebon Dust aura build. If you can improve on it then I welcome the improvements
Very well. First, Faithul Intervention is bad. I dont think it's worth skill slot. You can't cast it midcombat, and you cant cast it on teammates. Watchful Intervention is 2x better, in my experience.
Damage of the build is a bit low. Chilling Victory is a must for PvE Dervish. Well, not a must, but it does tons of dmg. There, that's for start. Also, your health regen wont mean much in Torment when you get hit hard by casters etc. Having prot spirit on yourself helps tons, and it means you dont have to rely on the tank in your team (if any), and in most cases enemy mobs spread dmg and there is no holding of aggro anyhow. Prot spirit was helping me tons. Still, all of this is optional. Im not saying it's a bad build (i dont like when everyone uses the same), but i'd still try somehow to use Chilling Victory if possible (not sure instead of what, and with Reap you may not have energy for it).
strcpy
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Originally Posted by Servant of Kali
1) Paragon rez? A what? You're going to rez someone with... 5% health? In combat, he's going to die. Out of combat, there are better rezes, such as Rebirth for instance, which will rez your teammates out of aggro rings. |
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I don't give a flip about the deep wound I want the +40. Besides I've never found Deep Wound to be a terribly useful PvE condition - mobs drop too quickly for it to matter, 4.5 seconds vs 5 seconds is irrelevant.
At my attribute points spread AoM and Wearying strike have 59 second up, 61 seconds down - a two minute cycle. So over those two minutes (assuming constantly spamming the strike while AoM is up) is 930 extra damage (60 second of AoM up, 31 damage every two seconds during that, 60 second down time). My combination (same assumption - 120 min cycles but I can spam them the whole cycle) gives me 1530 extra damage. Still get the deep wound so those cancel, and in mine I also gain quite a bit of health. If the monk hench wouldn't bother trying to strip the weakness from you you could continue to spam Wearying strike and keep about the same over all damage (when you factor in the weakness on the normal attacks), as is the hench or hero does and they waste quite a bit of energy.
Short duration fights with large gaps between them really favor the AoM build. Long duration or dense groups where you do not need to wait for AoM to recharge mine has the higher damage. One can add an attack skill to use while AoM is down to get the AoM damage back higher, but I find my tanking ability to be severely reduced by doing so - especially in torment or other higher end areas. Since I'm currently farming Lightbringer points that tends to be important.
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If you're going to use that argument then you can as well put Mending in there and say "uh i had no other skills, so you cant tell my build is bad, because it suits my needs and meets my requirements". Irrelevant. |
Well it's interesting how you recognized yourself and got concerned... How come some others didnt feel as endangered?
Go back to school some more - armchair psychology doesn't work well. One can trade passive aggressive taunts back and forth all day - for instance: If it really helps your boost your self esteem to think you are the vastly superior gamer I'm willing to allow you to believe that. I'm always willing to help out a fellow gamer who has trouble in life. Of course, the reality is you said something that obviously isn't correct that applies to one of the builds that I run. It shouldn't take much thought to realize that accusing people who run no secondary of being slow is going to make people who don't use a secondary irritated. That tends to be how I "recognized myself". Interestingly enough, you were supposed to show how adding a secondary and replacing a skill or two to makes it better. I didn't see that. I saw making fun of my rez (with an incorrect skill description) and hitting one of two skill that people always do. In fact, there has already been a thread over this in this forum. I'm waiting for the build with changing the secondary and making one much better.
Servant of Kali
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Originally Posted by strcpy
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So, if you want to use Signet of Return, sure, np. It's good on attacker with little energy, but if you want optimal setup then it's Rebirth in PvE. It's the ultimate PvE rez because in a lot of areas enemy can block your dead party members and u cant rez then with Return, they will get instantly killed again.
Besides, even if you use Signet of Return, it's still a skill from another profession, so it proves my point.
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Melandru indeed has some cool down but so does Reapers. 8 sec recharge in PvE means that u wont be able to use it on every enemy (with Melandru u could) as they will usually die fast in most game areas. So, Reapers technically has like... 70%+ downtime, technically speaking. Melandru has 50% or less, so you do the math. Also, in those game areas where you kill slower, and Reapers might be more useful, in those areas regen is less important because dmg is usually dealt in spikes. If you're getting hit, you're getting hit heavily and probably killed by the time regen does the job. So, all in all...
Quote: Besides I've never found Deep Wound to be a terribly useful PvE condition - mobs drop too quickly for it to matter, 4.5 seconds vs 5 seconds is irrelevant. Mobs die a lot quicker with deep wound, you should test it more and you'll see. I was suprised myself.
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Besides, you conveniently forgot that Melandru makes you immune to conditions, which means you aint blind (and blind is used by some pve mobs), which means you hit more. A lot of kournans and others do cripple, which means you move slower which means you hit less since you cant reach your targets fast. Im not even mentioning all the other conditions.
Battlefield isnt always about ideal conditions. Nor do monks remove conditions instantly.
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That is ...interesting... math. I posted hard numbers based on the full life cycle of the skill combinations. How did you arrive at 70% "downtime" for Reaper's sweep? There is no such thing as "downtime" for attack skills, there is damage per time unit (average damage per time unit for variable damage). Enchants, forms, hexes, and duration spells have downtime.|
but I find my tanking ability to be severely reduced by doing so
If you intend on tanking, D/Mo has solid dmg and 10x better tanking than your build in Torment for instance. Quote:
How so? Sunspear rebirth signet is also OK (it is half a dozen of one, six of another - hard or soft rez both work equally well in the way I play), it also makes it way there often. So does rebirth and flesh of my flesh. I don't really care. Signet of Return isn't a part of the build - it fits the role of "rez". If you can not figure it out, here:
What's better? I normally run the following d/any 15 scythe 11 earth 11 myst Reapers Sweep Victorious Sweep Armor of Sanctity conviction Mystic regeneration heart of fury mystic vigor rez Tada! Quote: |
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Quote: No. A necro hero can spam Draw Conditions and it will remain at full energy. Remedy Signet can solve the problem easily as well. But even without all that, Melandru+Wearying still beats Reapers IMO. Draw Conditions (a monk spell) costs 5e and has a 2 second recharge. In either case (I assume you picked a necro because of soul reaping and you are assuming you are so godly with that skill that you are keeping it's energy full?) they will not remain at full energy if you are spamming Wearying Strike every two seconds. If they were keeping it off you for a useful amount of time they would be doing nothing else. While it's DPS is pretty decent it isn't near devoting another character entirely to keeping you good, nor is it good enough for you to go through with weakness on you (though weakness doesn't effect bonus damage). While the computer AI will not complain (they will happily fail miserably), I shudder to think of a group if you spam Wearying Strike while outside of Melandru's form.
Remedy Signet is a 4 second recharge and takes another skill slot up. I can not believe that you are seriously saying that Wearying Strike is so good that it is worth another skill slot to spam a skill that does nothing but remove the condition it applies to you. And if I were to bother with that I would rather think you would go with one that spreads weakness to foes.
Quote: Besides, you conveniently forgot that Melandru makes you immune to conditions, which means you aint blind (and blind is used by some pve mobs), which means you hit more. A lot of kournans and others do cripple, which means you move slower which means you hit less since you cant reach your targets fast. Im not even mentioning all the other conditions. Umm, what? Who said anything about blind or cripple? I said that using Wearying strike outside of Melandru will apply weakness to you when you use it. Its DPS is only good if you are spamming it, thus every two seconds you apply weakness to yourself. Weakness sucks for a melee damager (what said build is). Hech and Hero AI spam condition removers as you get conditions applied to you, if you play with computer AI you will drain their energy. Thus one should not use Wearying strike outside of Melandru's form and you have about a 60 second time period where you can not use the skill (of course, you pointed out I can really bump up mysticism and have a longer duration, but then I do not have enough in Scythe Master to really output damage). I can't really figure out what you thought I meant.
Given that, over the full cycle (two minutes long) Melandru+Wearying does less damage than two minutes of spamming Reapers and another damage spell (I choose victorious sweep, others work also). You have said nothing to contradict that.
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Battlefield isnt always about ideal conditions. Nor do monks remove conditions instantly.
The hench/hero monks come pretty close. It is not their highest priority, but doing this makes it such that they will not have any down time to regen energy. And yes, mine use energy management spells. Quote:
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