Sealed Play in PvE

As many of you are undoubtedly aware, Sealed Play has gained significant popularity in the past few months in Guild Wars. Sealed Play is a method of restricting the total skills you can select from to a certain deck size, then building a viable team from those skills. The skills are determined at random, and players then select a subset of those skills with which to make their build. For more information, check Guild Wars’ discussion of it at http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/sealedplay/ , as well as the SoF site which contains a build generator at http://sof-guild.com/index.php?Page=cards .

The major advantages to Sealed Play are that it 1) allows for creative buildmaking, 2) teaches players how to appreciate skills not normally run, and 3) helps newer players by keeping them from being overwhelmed by the sheer number of skills available. However, the one downside to Sealed Play is that so far it has been focused solely on PvP. Yet the system would also work quite well in PvE. One of the major flaws in PvE right now is the increased reliance on cookie cutter builds, where people are concerned only with what the community deems to work ‘best.’ Instead of experimenting with builds, players end up running the same skillbar over and over, as once something is found to work reasonably well, it keeps working. In fact, finding a useful skillbar discourages further experimentation. Yet this is exactly where Sealed Play can come to the rescue. By voluntarily limiting their skill selection to a randomized deck, players can significantly enhance their PvE enjoyment, for the reasons listed above.

The foremost factor is that Sealed Play facilitates creative buildmaking. By choosing from a randomized deck, players will have to come up with new and previously unthought of combinations of skills to achieve their goals. While it is true that these skills and combinations are available without a restriction on deck size, it is simply too easy to fall into the trap of repetitive build making. By restricting the total skills available, players are effectively forced into new builds. Furthermore, the skill deck can be changed in size and rerandomized at any time a player wishes, allowing for no PvE experience to be repeated. This will allow old, somewhat stale content to be reinvigorated, as fighting the same monsters will now occur completely differently with new skills at your disposal.

Furthermore, Sealed Play teaches players to appreciate skills widely considered to be ‘underpowered’ or ‘bad.’ Many skills considered underpowered are in fact not, but are merely waiting for the opportunity to shine. Moreover, new and unexpected combinations of skills can arise, and may in fact be more powerful than what the community believes to be the best skills. Even if the skills do not end up being as powerful as could be hoped, simply using them will be beneficial. Players will learn to appreciate and understand each individual skill and how it actually plays out in combat, rather than merely reading the skill description and disregarding it.

Finally, Sealed Play helps newer players create builds by keeping them from being overwhelmed by too many choices. A new player is almost certainly unable to create a coherent build from the close to twelve hundred skills that Guild Wars currently offers. Yet the same player could well create a coherent build from a randomized deck that contains one hundred skills. As the player makes new builds and progresses through Sealed Play, the player will be able to create more complex and thorough builds.

While there are many advantages to Sealed Play in PvE, there are some drawbacks. The major drawbacks are 1) skill availability for the eight players, and 2) convincing others to adhere to the builds. However, skill availability problems are largely offset by heroes. After successfully completing chapter 3 on a character, it should be relatively simple to set up four characters (you + the three heroes). With the addition of one other person, you should be able to play most setups. Furthermore, convincing others to play Sealed Play in the beginning will be daunting. Yet the sheer fun of creating builds and playing them will likely lead to it becoming quickly accepted by the community, and thus make this problem moot.

Finally, it must be noted that this system is entirely voluntary. Also, the deck generators are flexible enough to allow for restricting of generated decks to what players are able to use.

Therefore, for the foregoing reasons, Sealed Play should be used in PvE.

Hmmmmm. This sounds interesting. I haven't actually heard about it before but then I am mostly PvE.

Sorry dont like this idea, sounds to familiar with your delete all skills list. There isnt nothing creative when being limited to a few set of skills. If you want people to be creative with builds you dont limit them to a small fractions of skills.

Now dont get me wrong, It could be fun for some to limit themselves in this way to play, but not for me.

so you mean there is?

Actually I think this is a pretty cool idea, though I don't know how best to implement it in a PvE setting. Still, if a practical (and obviously optional) means of including some PvE sealed play in GW were suggested I'd certainly support it.

I didn't agree with the skill deletion idea either but I find this one more viable as it would be voluntary. Might be interesting for people looking for a challenge.

It would definitely be an interesting challenge, but it would definitely have to be voluntary. The one thing about Pvp sealed deck is that both teams are playing under the same rules. In pve, what happens if you're going into an enchant strip heavy area with nothing but enchants? I know the odds are pretty slim, but its a lot harder to make a build viable when you're playing against a team with none of the same disadvantages.

That being said, its a good idea for those that enjoy the challenge, but don't want to turn to sealed deck pvp.

But that's just my two cents

The only guild wars I play now is sealed deck games when I am lucky to get the chance, but sealed deck games are the most fun I have had in over half a year of playing guildwars. Try it in PvE, it is more fun than you will expect.

So how would this actually work? At character creation do you select "sealed deck" or "open deck" and thus are restricted to a set of skills throughout? If not, when would it be in effect? How would you play with others participating in a sealed deck, adding a Sealed server like the International?

How random are the skill selections? With so many skills out there and so many varieties of basic builds:

warrior: hammer, sword, axe, tactics
ranger: archer, interruptor, beastmaster, trapper
elementalist: air, earth, fire, water
etc

would there be enough skills to make a character of your choosing or would you be limited to one of those realms (sword, beast, fire)? If truly random rather than a bunch of different lists chosen and then a random list you could have a tough time making a viable build at all.

I just don't see this fitting into a wide open PvE world. PvP played in arenas between 2 teams can work, it is a limited and controlled environment and for a limited duration. I know I would grow tired of playing the same builds without much choice to play something else.

OP: Have you heard of games like Halo where everyone has the same "skills" and weapons? It is a very limited and balanced game, maybe it is more to your liking?

What mechanism do you use to choose what skills to allow?

Is there like an arena for this? Cause i really wanna try this. Sounds incredibly fun and challenging.

Very simple to run:

1. Go here http://claire.dibarboure.free.fr/Gen...nerator&mode=0

2. Click Random Sealed Deck.

3. Change number of players to 4/6/8 whatever the situation calls for.

4. Hit generate sealed decks.

5. Reroll till you get a suitable deck and then get the seed number and share it to all your buddies. An example is 2067280. So then just open up the main page from step 1, do everything to step 3 and then at the bottom fill in the seed and generate the deck. The skills will be the same for everyone looking at it.

6. Once everyone is looking at this discuss build combinations, strategies, and other things. Get a build together and then enter the mission.

Usually you get to take 4 non-elite, primary profession wildcards, gift of health for a monk, diversion for a mesmer, etc. Each skill can only be used once unless it appears more than once in the draft. Resurrection Signet and Charm animal are free (given) to everyone, but sometimes apear in the skill pool.

we should set up a tournie for this in an international District.

If you're talking about pvp, I believe Black is already working on one. Not sure whether he's continuing with the idea.

If you're talking about pve, how could you set up a tourney in Pve?

there could be a core elite mission located at GtoB that when "enter mission" the outposts has a button called "generate sealed deck" once you from a group.

Sounds useless tbh..its like a "make youre own build for dummies" from how you descibe it.

I prefer to make my own builds and being able to choose from ALL available skills.

its more for the challenge, which is why its pvp based. try beating some endgame missions with sealed play before we start critizing someones idea.

No, it's build-making with an added strategic elements. This time, you can't choose the over-powered elites you always choose.

Goethe: "In der Beschränkung findet sich erst der Meister"

The skilled players would probably be able to figure out a build while the beginners or noobs would mess up. Works for pvp... but pve?

Wouldn't work for the simple reason that the majority of PvE players are not remotely close to having even one character UAX.
I consider myself an experienced PvE player, and whilst my main character has capped all of the elites, he only has all of the basic skills for his primary class.
And with the cost of skills prohibitive, let alone the restriction of how many skill points you have available for buying skills, this idea is dead in the water before it's even out of port.

Also, I like the way Trevor acknowledges here that certain skills only need to be used more for people to be able to appreciate them, yet his last thread was all in favour of wiping out the majority of so-called "bad" skills.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Humans aren't static creatures. Maybe he learned?

Hypocricy? You obviously didn't read his intentions or point hard enough. Then again, neither did the mod who closed it. His point was to delete bad/useless skills from the game to make it easier to balance the rest (which I do agree with him to a certain extent). His list (which I disagreed with on just the list as it was rather drastic) was to put forth an example and stated by himself that it wasn't set in stone and was just merely an example.

On topic though, this WOULD work, contrary to your beleif otherwise. Yes most pvers don't have UAX, that's why the word OPTIONAL is used. Nothing is forced onto anyone and the whole system would be entirely voluntary. For the people that do have this available, it is a valid option on how to play. For people that don't, it's just an incentive to get UAS on their character if they wish to participate. 1k per skill, 175 skills per core class so far ergo, money sink.

I wouldn't use it. It is interesting, but I like my builds and don't want to be limited. And no, I don't use cookie cutter builds. Each character has a set of builds I've experimented with and perfected over months. I like to use them, and really wouldn't enjoy being limited to certain skills.

Not quite sealed play, but my guild is (trying) to run a weekly team game through nightfall where the players aren't allowed to spend gold. So the only skills you get are the ones from training skill quest and hero trainers, and 2 cap sigs from the cap sig quest. Using in-game limitations on skills such as this is probably more viable than pure sealed deck for the lack of UAS as sited.

Expanding the sealed deck proggie to let the user choose a subset of skills for random pickings might make that method more amenable. (Or maybe it does this already?) For example you could limit the program's choices to just skills avaliable from istan trainers, then add kourna list, etc. and have multiple pickings adding new skills as you progress through the game. (Sortof like adding booster packs the further you get.)

P.S. I took the last thread more as a satire of the state of pvp balance.

IMNSHO Sealed Play would be a great idea as a challenge for advanced players.

Let's say that we create a character... we have a choice "PvE, PvP, SPvE, SPvP", in this case let's say we choose SPvE (yes, Sealed PvE). We have normal campaigns on different districts accessible only to SPvE characters.
So, we party up and go outside or enter the mission, we have some time (customisable or constant [5 mins?]) for skill customisation (that would require quite a bit of new interface). It would ofc cause a problem with partying up... but we could create something like Sealed Heroes (you simply customise them yourself), although it would really take loooots of time to create a team like that... So what would compensate this time? Mebbe some titles (account titles) like Sealed Explorer, Sealed Protector (sounds evil :P)... Quest rewards would have to get modified to actually be worth the time, completing a mission would have to give some nice stuff as well (let's say that experience would also be rank in SPvE [title] ). And still... we have elite missions, completing this would net us some really really nice nice thing... no idea what though. Hardcore case would be Sealed Play + Domain of Anguish... but how good is a game without a challenge? :P