How much slowdown is needed?
Hyprodimus Prime
How many slowdown skills does the average team build carry? Ive seen a full water ele to none at all. Is 1 enough? Cripple or hex?
Zui
It really depends on the entire focus of your build. There is no magic number for all builds, or even for similar builds. You want enough that it does exactly what you want it to, but not so much that you're wasting skill slots by having too many snares.
The reasons you'd want some kind of snare are:
1) Meleehate. Melee that are moving alot slower, have less chance to beat on your team, unless you're entirely retarded and decide to just stand there while they beat upon you.
2) Relic Runs. Snares can slow down the opposing runner, allowing you to make their trip to the Ghostly take longer, and it also lets you to body block them easier(which basicly makes their trip to the Ghostly take longer, or not happen at all, depending, so it's essentialy the same as the former). They can serve a defensive purpose here, too. Slowing down someone who might be on your runner(Example: Dervish with Harrier's Grasp) can help them cap faster than they would with near perma-cripple.
3) You're running melee in a pressure-type build. Obviously, the more your melee hits, the more damage they do, because your oppoent is not kiting you any more, or is moving significantly slower and giving you nice juicy auto-crits. Since Damage is the whole point to a pressure build, bringing a snare can absolutly be worth the skill slot.
As for deciding as to which type of snare(in relation to your hex/condition snare question), you really have to consider the focus of your build and what you can reasonably fit as a snare. For the former, that means that if you're a hex overload/pressure build, you probably want a hex snare. Likewise, if you're a condition-pressure build, you probably want a condition snare, because running a single hex in your build is pretty dumb, and will end up being a wasted skill slot since it gets removed almost immediately. For the later, that means that the snare needs to perform when you want it to. It working for you when you need it work depends on what you need/want it for, and which charactar you put it on.
Lastly, it should be mentioned that Knockdowns are another type of snare, just one that can do more than simply slowing the opponent down.
The reasons you'd want some kind of snare are:
1) Meleehate. Melee that are moving alot slower, have less chance to beat on your team, unless you're entirely retarded and decide to just stand there while they beat upon you.
2) Relic Runs. Snares can slow down the opposing runner, allowing you to make their trip to the Ghostly take longer, and it also lets you to body block them easier(which basicly makes their trip to the Ghostly take longer, or not happen at all, depending, so it's essentialy the same as the former). They can serve a defensive purpose here, too. Slowing down someone who might be on your runner(Example: Dervish with Harrier's Grasp) can help them cap faster than they would with near perma-cripple.
3) You're running melee in a pressure-type build. Obviously, the more your melee hits, the more damage they do, because your oppoent is not kiting you any more, or is moving significantly slower and giving you nice juicy auto-crits. Since Damage is the whole point to a pressure build, bringing a snare can absolutly be worth the skill slot.
As for deciding as to which type of snare(in relation to your hex/condition snare question), you really have to consider the focus of your build and what you can reasonably fit as a snare. For the former, that means that if you're a hex overload/pressure build, you probably want a hex snare. Likewise, if you're a condition-pressure build, you probably want a condition snare, because running a single hex in your build is pretty dumb, and will end up being a wasted skill slot since it gets removed almost immediately. For the later, that means that the snare needs to perform when you want it to. It working for you when you need it work depends on what you need/want it for, and which charactar you put it on.
Lastly, it should be mentioned that Knockdowns are another type of snare, just one that can do more than simply slowing the opponent down.
Lord Mendes
Foes and gale are the most "slowdowns" in HA.
Mental Leteci
Foes should actually be enough if you prefer to put something else instead of gale. In hex builds imagined burden will be fine too, they won't remove it anyway and with mantra of persistance you should have it on 24/7.
Alleji
Ward Foes + Gale.
Sometimes Bull's Strike as well.
Sometimes Bull's Strike as well.
Divineshadows
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental Leteci
Foes should actually be enough if you prefer to put something else instead of gale. In hex builds imagined burden will be fine too, they won't remove it anyway and with mantra of persistance you should have it on 24/7.
Actually if I only had room for one snare, I would choose gale over ward against foes due to its versatility. Snare offensively, snare defensively, snare from range, knock down off monk during spike, interrupt such and such skill, interrupt ghostly (assuming he doesn't have ward of stability or brace yourself on him).
Ward against foes has three main uses in HA, relic runs, used defensively on your back/midline against melee heavy builds to give you kiting advantage, and used offensively on their back/midline to give your melee an advantage.
Both of these skills though are excellent snares that are flexible enough to do other things that can work in just about any HA build. As for other snares to consider when making builds:
If you are running condition pressure, here are some things you may be able to include for snaring:
- You're All Alone
- Harrier's Grasp
- Barbed Trap
- Snare
- Crippling Sweep
- Drunken/Desparation blow (on the steady stance fear me warriors that make me want to throw up)
- Crippling Dagger
If you are running hex pressure, here are some of the things you may be able to include for snaring:
- Persistence + Imagined Burden (as Letici pointed out this combo is awesome when covered by many other hexes)
- Freezing Gust
- Deep Freeze
- Ice Spikes
- Ice Prison
- Siphon Speed
- Shadow Prison
- Iron Mist (snare their relic runner or a ghostly en route to the altar and then beat on their monks)
- Binding Chains (same concept as iron mist but only works in hex builds that use communing for defensive spirits and not the offensive variety)
If you are running neither condition heavy nor hex heavy, then some snares other than gale and ward against foes include:
- bull's strike
- bull's charge (just downright mean to the opposing relic runner)
- hammer bash
- shock
- earthshaker
- horns of the ox
Ward against foes has three main uses in HA, relic runs, used defensively on your back/midline against melee heavy builds to give you kiting advantage, and used offensively on their back/midline to give your melee an advantage.
Both of these skills though are excellent snares that are flexible enough to do other things that can work in just about any HA build. As for other snares to consider when making builds:
If you are running condition pressure, here are some things you may be able to include for snaring:
- You're All Alone
- Harrier's Grasp
- Barbed Trap
- Snare
- Crippling Sweep
- Drunken/Desparation blow (on the steady stance fear me warriors that make me want to throw up)
- Crippling Dagger
If you are running hex pressure, here are some of the things you may be able to include for snaring:
- Persistence + Imagined Burden (as Letici pointed out this combo is awesome when covered by many other hexes)
- Freezing Gust
- Deep Freeze
- Ice Spikes
- Ice Prison
- Siphon Speed
- Shadow Prison
- Iron Mist (snare their relic runner or a ghostly en route to the altar and then beat on their monks)
- Binding Chains (same concept as iron mist but only works in hex builds that use communing for defensive spirits and not the offensive variety)
If you are running neither condition heavy nor hex heavy, then some snares other than gale and ward against foes include:
- bull's strike
- bull's charge (just downright mean to the opposing relic runner)
- hammer bash
- shock
- earthshaker
- horns of the ox
RandomEngy
On our grenth dervish we bring Featherfoot Grace and Harrier's Grasp. It's pretty much all we need to harass and slow the flag carrier, with the plus that half the time you're stripping off all the prot as well. Also it gets reapplied enough that stripping it off isn't too bad.
Etrik
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomEngy
On our grenth dervish we bring Featherfoot Grace and Harrier's Grasp. It's pretty much all we need to harass and slow the flag carrier, with the plus that half the time you're stripping off all the prot as well. Also it gets reapplied enough that stripping it off isn't too bad.
We're talking about HA, not GvG. What flag carrier?
Bread Fan
The flag carrier on Scarred Earth silly. That's what all those l33t levers are for. You get a teammate to cap ALL the obelisks. It's INSANE dps and think the enemy has nowhere to run!!!
The Real Roy Keane
Foes+Gale, it's not too difficult to fit the two in, and you can only keep a relic runner blocked indefinitely with both.
Julen
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane
Foes+Gale, it's not too difficult to fit the two in, and you can only keep a relic runner blocked indefinitely with both.
QFT, thats really all you need in HA. Gale the runner, put foes on his arse, 4 man full bodyblock. Rince and repeat if they drop the relic and someone else goes running.
ZenRgy
I think on a Grenth's dervish Harrier's grasp is THE best cripple / snare you can get, since all you can do from a grenth dervish. is kite really.
But foes+gale are the best since you can't remove wards, huge AoE plus other points already stated.
But foes+gale are the best since you can't remove wards, huge AoE plus other points already stated.
I Write Sins
usually depends on what kind of group ur running .... usually i seem to bring an expell hexes water ele or a grenth derv with crippling sweep oorr a sandstorm warder with foes and churning earth (gasp) yeah i said churning earth....b/c imma nublet 