I don't get it... (Shiro, Lich)

Minor Spoilers below.

OK. The whole Factions soryline happened in 1582 (or something similar to that). I'm pretty sure it didn't take 3 years for the players to "kill" Shiro.

BUT, in the Nightfall storyline, which is 3 years AFTER Factions, you meet up with Shiro (in Gate of Madness).

What?? I thought he died, 3 years ago! And for that matter, what about the Lich? Factions and Prophecies happened at the same time, and Nightfall is 3 years afterwards, so technically Shiro and the Lich should be dead by the time Nightfall storyline begins.

Last cinematic for factions, the whatever guys say they'll put shiro in a part of the UW that he can't escape. That was the Realm of Torment. As for Lich, I forget. So basically when they got banished to the Realm of Torment (A section of The Underworld) Abaddon made them his "generals" in his army.

I'm guessing that Abaddon gave them back their flesh so they could help Abaddon take over the world.

The entire "meet up with Shiro again" got me a little peeved, so i rolled out my Rt again and went to shut him down for good (?perhaps?).
Thing is how the hell can those godlike wotziznames that banished Shiro allow him to be a menace again not to mention a General in Abaddon's army, WTF!

Because the power of a God in his realm is much much much more powerful then the power of The Envoy's in the real world.

I'd suspect the Envoys thought that the prison was secure. After all, the prison is secure enough to hold a god, so surely it'll hold Shiro... (They didn't know the walls of the prison were weakening...)

In the case of the Lich - well, he was "killed" on the bloodstone for the Door of Komalie (the other side of which is in the Forge of Failed Creations in the DoA), so I'd guess what happened is that his spirit got sucked through the Door into Torment before the Door slammed shut behind him, and he reformed in Torment.

Both where already surving Abbadon... the Lich tries to open a gate to the Domain of Anguish... and Shiro tries to weaken the barriers to the underworld by disturbing the flow of souls. And both became evil thx to servants of Abbadon.

Dying doesn't seem to matter much to evil guys. They always find a way back. I mean, Shiro was technically dead in Factions too, he'd just found a way to harass people in the real world and I think also wanted to get back to control the land of the living. And the Lich, he was "undead", which is kind of like half-dead, yes? So the body might be destroyed, but the spirit lives on.

And like other people explained above, if the spirit is trapped somewhere, there's always a chance it'll come back, no matter how secure the prison is (and especially if there's a mad god trapped in there as well).

Shiro was killed at the end of factions. His spirit was sentenced to eternal torment. The gods, through their envoys, thus sent Shiro to the Realm of Torment.

However, it would seem that they were unaware that the Realm of Torment had changed, that the bounds limiting Abaddon's power were weakening and that the actions of several mortals were further weakening the realm. While Abaddon was still imprisoned, he has through his minions managed to actually take control of his prison, attempting to subvert Tyria itself.

Thus Shiro and the Lich, both (initially unwitting) servants of Abaddon, were simply reunited with their master and instead of being punished in the realm after their death were restored to power instead, taking place of generals/bodyguards in his realm.

Possibly, they were unable to leave due to having been killed, explaining why they were not leading the war effort in Elona. Likely, one cannot return from the dead on his own, but instead needs to be called - that's where Varesh Ossa comes into play.

Essentially, after the two archvillains were killed, we assumed they were being slowly roasted in the equivalent of hell. Hell, however, has suffered a hostile takeover and under the new management, the two were simply given several years of R&R...

One big continuity issue.

When you killed the Lich, his soul was supposed to repower the drained batteries that hold the door of Komalie. You'd think his soul would therefore be trapped in or near the batteries much like the sacrificed chosen used to be. So... how is he down in torment?

It could be that the power of his soul was only needed to recharge the batteries one last time and then he was cast away into Torment. Remember once he was defeated the volcano began to erupt. We dont know the fate of the Island,the Batteries and the Door.

Hmm... a lot of different theories, but they all sound good. So basically, Tyria's UW is somewhat related to Cantha's "Mists" which is somewhat related to Nightfall's Realm of Torment?

Shiro - The weakened Envoys (human world) thought they were strong enough to hold Shiro, but he was sent to the Realm of Torment instead.

Lich - Once he died, his soul (undead, 1/2 dead?) went to the Realm of Torment.

Abbadon gave them their flesh back?

Theres only one Underworld. Realm of Torment is just a realm in the Undwerworld. The Mists isn't really in the Underworld.

The Envoys purposely put Shiro in the Realm of Torment before anyone knew about Nightfall.

Yes, when The Lich died his soul went to the Realm of Torment.

I'm guessing when they were banished to the Realm of Torment they went in spirit form. When they agreed to help out Abaddon, he gave them flesh.

Ah...now I get it.

TYVM for all your help guys!

But, I have a brand new question that I forgot to ask.

In the Nightfall storyline why do the players help Palawa Joko get back on his feet again? i.e., why are they letting him go to his bone palace, where he'll regroup and if given the time he will probably take back Vabbi. Basically, the players know this so why did they let him live?

If they didn't help Palawa Joko, we wouldn't be able to cross the Desolation, and Nightfall would of happened. So it's either help Palawa Joko and take a chance of him trying to take over Vabbi, or don't help him and watch the world of light end.

O.o When you put it that way, it makes sense.

Essentially, Palawa is the lesser of two evils. Even when returned to the Bone Palace, he's nowhere near as strong as he was (most of his armies remain outside his control). And there are a couple of quests aimed at pulling his teeth, such as finding the passage he used to invade Vabbi in the first place.

Ultimately, not only is Palawa much less of a threat than Abaddon, he's also a threat that can be contained. The leaders of Elona know he's there, know his options for invasion routes, and, in general, know to be prepared. While the price of peace may be eternal vigiliance, he's not going to catch them by surprise again.

Of course, if there was some other disturbance that prevented the armies of Elona from maintaining such vigilance, that could be a problem. In the long run, though, he remains the lesser of two evils - and his demeanour appears to indicate that he knows he's not strong enough to cause trouble.

So now that we killed Shiro and the Lich again in the RoT, are they like dead for good this time? or do they get sent to another area in the UW? I mean come on, wth!

Although Nightfall is technically 3 years ahead of the others it doesnt appear it is. All 3 storylines up to LA, Kaineng, Kamadan join up at the same time, since any mission before these points is classed as old missions (hence why u get no rewards and u get the message : These are the events that occured before u arrived in x) So If thats true the whole saga isnt all in 1 year but over the course of several. All the 'Pre' parts occur at the same time, then the ending parts of the storyline deviate in time frame, with Prophecies = ending 1st, then faction, then nightfall.

However since i havnt put my nightfall characters into any prophecies missions yet it could be different for them when doing prophecies missions it may say that message for all of the missions.