Skill points, Could be more usefull?

Tauren Arcanist

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

Vanquishers Island

Jenns Ungulating Glory Globes[JuGG]

E/Mo

You know I've been sitting back and wondering what the point of us continue'ing to gain exp after we've hit a certain point. I mean my ele is going to break 4 mill. exp. soon. I just wish I could be getting something more for it. Maybe get 1K every time we gain a skill point after level 20? It would DEF make getting the skill hunter title easier on the wallet. I mean the only reason I wont go after that title is because I cant afford it Any idea's?

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Skill points allow you to unlock skills in PvE, for those that prefer to grind XP (and subsequently earn cash for buying skills).

I wouldn't mind the 1k per point (I'd have a decent 1050k free cash..) but I don't see how it's needed - the current system isn't broken. The average player is expected to get the skills they need, while the power-pve'ers can freely pay to get everything.

Puebert

Puebert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

Or maybe instead of getting 1K per skill point, you get a reduced price on your next skill purchase to slow down inflation.

Tauren Arcanist

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

Vanquishers Island

Jenns Ungulating Glory Globes[JuGG]

E/Mo

^better idea

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

For every 250.000 experience, the price for skills fall by 25%. no?

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauren Arcanist
Maybe get 1K every time we gain a skill point after level 20? It would DEF make getting the skill hunter title easier on the wallet. I mean the only reason I wont go after that title is because I cant afford it Any idea's?
Giving lvl20 playes 1k everytime they level up is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. It would flood the game with gold and be unfair to those players who know how to level up easier then others. I realise you would use that gold for skills, but others wouldnt. They would save it up and spend it on materials and weapons and prices would explode.

Players would create characters purely to level up and gain gold, it would get abused.

Plus if this is to replace being given skill points thats an even worse idea. We NEED those skill points once you reach lvl20, because we have no other way to earn them.

And some people use up their skill points really fast, while others have loads left over. The skill points have a perfectly good use and they get used.

Gregslot

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

Do you have any idea how much experience you earn at one solo farm at unwerworld?

Curse You

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

I think the real problem isn't that there isn't enough money for doing the Skill Hunter title, it's that you don't want to have to spend the time to farm the money you need.

I have been playing for about 1 year. I have 8 PvE characters, 3 of which have 15k armour. My main character has ALL Necromancer Skills (including elites), and has the Adept Skill Hunter title. And yet, I have over 400k. I have never done any farming that I felt was excessive. It is not hard to get money.

I Phoenix I

I Phoenix I

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Elite Lords of Chaos [LoC]

R/

1k, no. 250g, perhaps.

But seriously, if you PvE that much, you should have the time to go farm some money for skills.

BahamutKaiser

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

They should just remove the gold requirement for buying skills. They can increase the exp needed to gain additional skill points after level 20 and call it a day. Gold has many other purposes, and skill aquisition shouldn't cost several 100k in gold.

shardfenix

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

Instead of giving 1k per each skill point earned, how about the ability to trade in skill points for 1k? Then you actually have to lose something to get the money, instead of getting a free signet of capture.

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by shardfenix
Instead of giving 1k per each skill point earned, how about the ability to trade in skill points for 1k? Then you actually have to lose something to get the money, instead of getting a free signet of capture.
In my view, as I said above, that would also get abused. Its no different then what the OP suggested. Players would create characters purely to level up and gain skills points which they would then trade for gold.

It would become the new farming technique to make yourself rich.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser
They should just remove the gold requirement for buying skills. They can increase the exp needed to gain additional skill points after level 20 and call it a day. Gold has many other purposes, and skill aquisition shouldn't cost several 100k in gold.
Where as I agree that making us pay for all skills (such as in factions) instead of giving us some as rewards for quests (as in prophercies) is wrong. If Anet was to return the the better system of giving some skills as rewards for quests, then I think its acceptably to make us pay for the rest.

I think the price should stop at a lower amount then 1k, but I still think we need that gold sink in order to remove gold from the system. Otherwise we would be removing another gold sink from the game and making it easier for people to hord gold.

KiyoshiKyokai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

Red Versus Blue

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
In my view, as I said above, that would also get abused. Its no different then what the OP suggested. Players would create characters purely to level up and gain skills points which they would then trade for gold.

It would become the new farming technique to make yourself rich.



Where as I agree that making us pay for all skills (such as in factions) instead of giving us some as rewards for quests (as in prophercies) is wrong. If Anet was to return the the better system of giving some skills as rewards for quests, then I think its acceptably to make us pay for the rest.

I think the price should stop at a lower amount then 1k, but I still think we need that gold sink in order to remove gold from the system. Otherwise we would be removing another gold sink from the game and making it easier for people to hord gold.
I would agree that money should't be given out, but I don't think skills should be used as a gold sink, either. We have alcohol for that

Why not allow you to pay more skill points when buying skills. For example, skills now cost:

1 skill point and 1000 gold.

If we were also allowed to pay with:

2 SP and 500g
3 SP and 250g
4 SP and 100g
5 SP

then those of us who want to buy nice weapons/armor/get drunk could still afford the skills we need.

I (like to OP, I presume) always have tons of leftever skill points, but hardly ever enough gold. This would give those extra points some real use.

Redfeather1975

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

I miss dem olden days of getting skills through quests.
It was fun to find and do the quests knowing that a precious, delicious skill was waiting!
Now I just have to farm for money all the time to get a new skill. It feels so shallow.

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiyoshiKyokai
I would agree that money should't be given out, but I don't think skills should be used as a gold sink, either. We have alcohol for that

Why not allow you to pay more skill points when buying skills. For example, skills now cost:

1 skill point and 1000 gold.

If we were also allowed to pay with:

2 SP and 500g
3 SP and 250g
4 SP and 100g
5 SP

then those of us who want to buy nice weapons/armor/get drunk could still afford the skills we need.

I (like to OP, I presume) always have tons of leftever skill points, but hardly ever enough gold. This would give those extra points some real use.
The simple reason not to do that is because skill points are harder to come by then gold. You can make about 1k in gold in about 30 minutes of farming and selling items to the merchant. Making skill points can take hours if not days of leveling up.

I learnt from personal experience, when I was a noob 14 months ago, not to just spend your skill-points like gold. I ran out and had to wait for factions to come around and nightfall before I was able to earn more to spend on normal and elite skills.

And we DO need more gold sinks. We actually have very few in the game now, other them merchant weapons, armor and skills. Alcohol isnt a necessity.

Sup Ident and Sup salvage kits were made free using commendations. Thats a good idea for perhaps normal identification and normal salvage kits for new players. But by doing that with superiour ones, it removed a major gold sink as they cost around 2k each to buy. It also makes a very easy way to make gold, as all you need do is exchange commendations (or similar item) for a sup ident kit and sell it to merchant for 1k.

Without these gold sinks, people hord gold and we end up with more rich players influencing the market prices. I know everyone wants to hord gold and become oober rich, I wouldnt mind it either, and I know people have worked for that gold. But the fact is that it isnt good to have lots of oober rich players.

Selling skill points for an increasing price and maxing at 1k isnt prefect. It could perhaps have a cheaper max value, but we need that gold sink.

Anything which makes it far easier to make gold or stops us from having to spend gold is bad.

What we need to do with skills is return to the prophercies method of giving partial skills are rewards, so players can atleast build up a small selection for free. THEN we can buy the rest. Factions kind of did that, but they gave you far too few free skills to be usefull.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

1k per Skil point = making it even easier for botters

but the reduced cost for every SP would be awsome! not even 25%, even at 5% it would be already great

Arcane De Farad

Arcane De Farad

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Alea Iacta Est

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
I miss dem olden days of getting skills through quests.
It was fun to find and do the quests knowing that a precious, delicious skill was waiting!
Now I just have to farm for money all the time to get a new skill. It feels so shallow.
I agree, and ppl will do more quest... .

Atara Ars Namadra

Atara Ars Namadra

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apocalyptic Riders

Mo/E

I love the idea of having skill prices decrease gradually... I want the skill hunter title but a with a scarce 100k in my storage i cant afford it !
Of course it would also be nice if skills could be gained through quests... It truly is much more satisfying...

Shinka

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

POEA

W/

I have so many skill points and dunno what to do with it.

How about we use the skill point to exchange for points counting towards the sweets/party/drunk title?

Maybe like 1 skill point change for 5 point towards any title that u want.

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

I'd like to have more skill points. You can use them for Skill Hunter, rite? ;d

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinka
I have so many skill points and dunno what to do with it.
I believe Anet's answer was: consumables.

Lady Raenef

Lady Raenef

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Oregon, USA.

Zero Mercy [zm]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puebert
Or maybe instead of getting 1K per skill point, you get a reduced price on your next skill purchase to slow down inflation.
/signed

Keep the 1k cost on Capture Signets, however.

Shasgaliel

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

I had always issues with skill points. I used more than 1200 SP on my main char and currently have 0. Star of transference do help but they need gold. Reduced prices of skills is a nice idea but for me having possibility of paying more and not needing a SP would be much better of course.

Shinka

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

POEA

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
I believe Anet's answer was: consumables.
sad to say i also have many sets of consumables not in use. I still left about 1000+ skill point.

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007



This is my monk and I farm with all 10 of my characters. I have a large amount of skills points but there is something to do with all those skills points, make consets and take them to the ToA and sell them. In one CoF farm as a 600 I usually make 5 skill points so that is 1 skill point ever 6 minutes and don’t even get me started on my ecto farming days.

Converting skill points to gold I would see as a bad thing since it could flood the market with a large amount of gold causing prices to increase and putting them out of reach of the average player.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
I believe Anet's answer was: consumables.
Yeah! True. But there are 7(+1) ranks, and we have only 4.
If they gave consumables (the 3 common ones) + a fourth 'specialty' to the the 3(+1) missing ones, there would be more reasons to spend points.
If they where to be added, they should be something to add comfort, not to help in battle... something like:

- Luxon/Kurzick:
"Scroll of Vigilante's Insight"
+x% rank points with each single kill for 30 minutes. PvE only.

- An effect to ease rank grinding, without fomenting things like HFFF or boss runs.
- Will NOT work for bonus, quest, dungeon reward, mission or boss points. ONLY SINGLE KILLS. That is, works better when clearing full areas with plenty of enemies, barely when going to quests or boss runs, and a waste doing HFFF.
- The more enemies an area has regardless of bosses or quests there, the more extra points with a single scroll provides.
- Bonuses change depending on ranks. 'Easier to get' ranks receive less bonuses. Something like this could be fine:
+150% for Factions ranks
+25% for Nightfall ranks.
+50% for EotN ranks.
- This item could only be activated after having a bounty in the effect monitor.

- Sunspear
"Golden Sun"
For each character that is not an hero nor a henchman in the party, party members get +30..100% gold from gold drops they pick and have an extra 2..10% chances of getting an extra rare drop when killing non-boss enemies.

- An effect to treat full-human parties.
- The 'rank' for the variable properties(green numbers) would be the number of humans in the party: from 1 to 8, like the Lightbringer title rank.
- Since works better when everyone is a player and do not work for bosses or chests, it would be a good way to boost vanquishing rewards. Let's kill'em all! Farmers won't benefit much from this, either, unless going in full parties, and clearing full areas, XD.

- Lightbringer:
"Secret Lamp"
Summons a Merchant djinn for 30 minutes. Only one can be summoned at the same time. PvE Only.

- An effect to help ease burden in dungeons and the like.
- It would be a level 20 a diamond djinn with the same stock and prices as the Guild Hall merchant.
- It will talk to any ally, not only the summoner.
- The djinn will follow the party, but would be neutral. It won't help in battle.
- Needless to say, it won't bodyblock. Not allies neither foes.

This way there could be even more things to spend points, without being steroids.

Tender Wolf

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

Yeah, I finally got Legendary Skill Hunter and STILL have like ~200 unused skill points. The only time I use them is occassionally to get a perfect salvage kit, and very rarely a skill I haven't unlocked yet. But I do think we should get some other kind of reward from gaining a skill point. 1k may be a bit much, perhaps 500g? Something like that anyway. Anything other than skill points that most of us probably don't use.

-Makai-

-Makai-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

WA

DH

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Yeah! True. But there are 7(+1) ranks, and we have only 4.
If they gave consumables (the 3 common ones) + a fourth 'specialty' to the the 3(+1) missing ones, there would be more reasons to spend points.
If they where to be added, they should be something to add comfort, not to help in battle... something like:

- Luxon/Kurzick:
"Scroll of Vigilante's Insight"
+x% rank points with each single kill for 30 minutes. PvE only.

- An effect to ease rank grinding, without fomenting things like HFFF or boss runs.
- Will NOT work for bonus, quest, dungeon reward, mission or boss points. ONLY SINGLE KILLS. That is, works better when clearing full areas with plenty of enemies, barely when going to quests or boss runs, and a waste doing HFFF.
- The more enemies an area has regardless of bosses or quests there, the more extra points with a single scroll provides.
- Bonuses change depending on ranks. 'Easier to get' ranks receive less bonuses. Something like this could be fine:
+150% for Factions ranks
+25% for Nightfall ranks.
+50% for EotN ranks.
- This item could only be activated after having a bounty in the effect monitor.

- Sunspear
"Golden Sun"
For each character that is not an hero nor a henchman in the party, party members get +30..100% gold from gold drops they pick and have an extra 2..10% chances of getting an extra rare drop when killing non-boss enemies.

- An effect to treat full-human parties.
- The 'rank' for the variable properties(green numbers) would be the number of humans in the party: from 1 to 8, like the Lightbringer title rank.
- Since works better when everyone is a player and do not work for bosses or chests, it would be a good way to boost vanquishing rewards. Let's kill'em all! Farmers won't benefit much from this, either, unless going in full parties, and clearing full areas, XD.

- Lightbringer:
"Secret Lamp"
Summons a Merchant djinn for 30 minutes. Only one can be summoned at the same time. PvE Only.

- An effect to help ease burden in dungeons and the like.
- It would be a level 20 a diamond djinn with the same stock and prices as the Guild Hall merchant.
- It will talk to any ally, not only the summoner.
- The djinn will follow the party, but would be neutral. It won't help in battle.
- Needless to say, it won't bodyblock. Not allies neither foes.

This way there could be even more things to spend points, without being steroids.
As always, I enjoy your ideas, Mithran. /signed!

On the original topic, I think we have a bigger problem with hero skill points than normal skill points. I'd like to see hero skill trainers completely removed from the game and allow hero skills to be used at all normal skill trainers along with a reduced fee. After acquiring many hero skills on numerous characters, the concept quickly becomes worthless.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Well, the only one I'd really like is the 'portable merchant'.

The other ones are just examples. Other things could be done.

shoyon456

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauren Arcanist
Maybe get 1K every time we gain a skill point after level 20? It would DEF make getting the skill hunter title easier on the wallet. I mean the only reason I wont go after that title is because I cant afford it Any idea's?
This started out as a very promising thread until there. I expected that you were looking to make continued XP progress have some incentive, however it seems you just want a way to counter the cost of a title that characters happen to gain alot of XP while getting.

The idea, although, isn't bad. The reward should be along the lines of 200g per skill point earned. This is just enough to make you go "cool" when getting a skill point while not giving people a reason to suddenly start farming skill points just for the modest gold reward.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

The difference between the OP's idea and what is actually in the game is a good enough example.

What the OP wants. Free money. Floods the market with money.

What we have. Consumables, a gold sink, the exact opposite.

Raul the Rampant

Raul the Rampant

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2008

Wisconsin

[LaiD]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
The difference between the OP's idea and what is actually in the game is a good enough example.

What the OP wants. Free money. Floods the market with money.

What we have. Consumables, a gold sink, the exact opposite.
Well, no, I wouldn't exactly call all consumables a gold sink. Alcohol, sugar, and party items would qualify, but the EOtN items (the ones that require skill points) fail as gold sinks in practice. Sure, they do serve to remove a small amount of gold from the economy (all are less than 1k gold a pop, are they not?); they even take a bite out of the common material pool. People wouldn't use them, though, if they didn't benefit in the long run. Perfect salvage kits allow someone to take 1 good drop and make it 3 or 4 good drops... that lets people merch a naked gold drop and still sell several mods off of it for more.

The effects of this alone are probably negligible, though, unless you consider what the others do: they make it even easier to farm more items, and thus more gold. More health, armor, faster casting and recharge, etc. all make it that much easier and faster for people to go out and create substantially more gold than was removed by their creation. If they were a true gold sink there would be a net loss in the long run, but since nobody would ever use them if this were the case they'll never fit that definition.

CyclonicYoh

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

heh craft cons with skill points, buy stacks at market prices craft with skill points anad it ends up costing you around 5-6k which can then be easily sold for 6.3-7k in any elite area. u make a profit and well run out of skill points way too fast xD

sixofone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

P/

I've been wondering this myself. In a game where you reach max level relatively fast, and (aside from the Legendary Survivor title) XPs really don't matter much, what else is there to do? Why use a scroll that gives me an extra +50%/175%/%250 XP when all the XPs do is earn me 1 more skill point, and I'm sitting on 100 unused ones? Gold seems far more worthwhile than XP with the way this game works.

I really don't know the answer. I was thinking of starting a thread asking a similar question, when you have a game where XP really doesn't matter, what's the incentive - what keeps people playing? Titles? (Aside from LS, they don't mean much to me.)

I got a bit of a thrill when I finally capped Midshipman Moralah's staff during the last 2x green weekend (only green I got all weekend!). Beating missions on Masters. I suppose, at some point, vanquishing will be the next level of achievement for me.

I guess its a PvE question more than PvP: what do people enjoy out of the game aside from gaining XP? What gives you a sense of accomplishment? Clearing FoW?

Just interested...

Pleikki

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

Every 1milj xp 1k cash would be more realistic, id have 12k free cash on my nec woot

rohara

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

i have legendary skill hunter and about 500 skill points, and absolutely nothing to do with them. buying consumables every now and then doesn't even put a dent in em. i don't have a solution, but /signed for wanting more things to do with skill points.

BulletStopper

BulletStopper

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Staring At my computer

Knights an Heroes

Mo/

I feel your pain and also wish there was something else to do with skill points. But I don't feel selling them for 1K is the right answer. Possible a lower amount.

To put into perspective, there is my main toon. (yes, I'm a 55 and 600 farmer, and have been for 3 years.)

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

I would say give 100g per skill point earned after level 20, but add an option to the Skill Trainer to trade in each skill point for 100g.

/signed.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Well, the only one I'd really like is the 'portable merchant'.

The other ones are just examples. Other things could be done.
I would love this!

Nothing beats having portable merchant .

I would add some more "convenience" features:

"Scroll Of Death Wish"

- You teleport to closest enemy on current map. After 5 seconds, you return to your original location and die, causing double death penalty.

(to ease "last mob" anguish while vanquishing - some dangerous scouting :])

And some stupid ones:

"Hopeless Potion"

- For 70 seconds, you gain +10 health and energy regeneration, but you receive 2% Death penalty every other second. 5% Chance of reversed effects.

(Reversed effect is morale boost every other seccond while suffering -10 health and energy degeneration)

(Gimmick!)

"Charm of Lifeblood"

- For 5 seconds, damage your allies withing earshot take is redirected to you as shaddow damage instead. Each time your receive damage this way, you loose one enchantment and sacrifice 5% of your health.

(Gimmick!)

Sweet Mystery

Sweet Mystery

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Shadow Hunters Of Light [SHOL]

R/

Yeah we need to get more ways to use skill points or some way you can "cash them in"....

100 skill points for 5K or something.... so you get something more as you level up.....