Now that the Ritualist hero is out, (which I still need to get) I was curious on who would put out more damage, a Rit MM, or a Necro MM.
So, the builds would be:
Razah: Minion Bomber
Proffesion:
Ritualist/Necromancer
Attributes:
Spawning Power: 16 (12+3+1)
Death Magic: 12
Restoration Magic: Whatever is left.
Skills:
[skill]Explosive Growth[/skill][skill]Boon of Creation[/skill][skill]Spirit's Gift[/skill][skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]
[skill=text]Spirit's Gift[/skill] could be replaced with [skill=text]Taste of Death[/skill] or [skill=text]Putrid Flesh[/skill].
Obviously, Razah's plan is to use [skill=text]Death Nova[/skill] to send his minions into battle and explode, but to put [skill=text]Jagged Bones[/skill] on them to trigger [skill=text]Explosive Growth[/skill],[skill=text]Boon of Creation[/skill], and [skill=text]Spirit's Gift[/skill] to do damage, heal allies, and bring back energy.
Olias/Master of Whispers OoU build
Profession:
Necromancer/Monk
Attributes:
Death Magic: 16 (12+1+3)
Soul Reaping: 12 (11+1)
Healing Prayers: 6 (I think thats whats left over, correct me if I'm wrong)
Skills:
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Sorrow[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]
[skill=text]Order of Undeath[/skill] could be replaced with [skill=text]Reaper's Mark[/skill].
Olias/MoW's plan is to take advantage of the [skill=text]Order of Undeath[/skill] and [skill=text]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill] combo to deal an extra 17 damage with minions at almost no life loss.
So, my question is, which build has more damage?
If anyone can test this, or just knows offhand, an answer would be nice. ^_^
Best MM damage build: Razah Vs. Olias and Master of Whispers
Puebert
Carinae
Apples vs Oranges (sorta)
I could easily imagine scenarios where one dominated the other.
The Rit is only going to be able to have 8 lvl 10 bone minions, but the power of his build is in creating and destroying them, not as damage-platforms. I doubt if the Rit will ever reach the minion cap. From one corpse, he can get 2 EG + 2 DN + 2 more Jaggeds. But the minions themselves will be pathetic and won't contribute much.
The Necro build is a bit wonky with Dwaynas Sorrow and Rebirth. Dwayna's Sorow has some utility with a MM, but not when paired with OoU as the elite. Heal area works better here, because it heals for more and is predictable. (ie: it fires when you use it, not at random times when a minion dies)
You're just dreaming about Vamp Horrors canceling OoU. The lifesteal offset from Vamp Horrors is minor, unpredictable and useless...just like Dwayna's Sorrow. It won't work the way you want it to on a consistent basis.
And Rebirth on an MM is just dumb. Replace Rebirth and Vamp Horrors with Heal Area and Rez Sig/Dark Bond.
I could easily imagine scenarios where one dominated the other.
The Rit is only going to be able to have 8 lvl 10 bone minions, but the power of his build is in creating and destroying them, not as damage-platforms. I doubt if the Rit will ever reach the minion cap. From one corpse, he can get 2 EG + 2 DN + 2 more Jaggeds. But the minions themselves will be pathetic and won't contribute much.
The Necro build is a bit wonky with Dwaynas Sorrow and Rebirth. Dwayna's Sorow has some utility with a MM, but not when paired with OoU as the elite. Heal area works better here, because it heals for more and is predictable. (ie: it fires when you use it, not at random times when a minion dies)
You're just dreaming about Vamp Horrors canceling OoU. The lifesteal offset from Vamp Horrors is minor, unpredictable and useless...just like Dwayna's Sorrow. It won't work the way you want it to on a consistent basis.
And Rebirth on an MM is just dumb. Replace Rebirth and Vamp Horrors with Heal Area and Rez Sig/Dark Bond.
Servant of Kali
Because of Soul Reaping, i just dont see Rt doing as good as necro. I can put so much utility and dmg and defense on Necro that it's sick.
I Phoenix I
Well, Ritualists have [skill]Boon of Creation[/skill], which is sort of like Soul Reaping but backwards in a bit...lol
Whereas Necros get energy for things dying, Ritualists (with Boon of Creation) get energy for things getting created.
Whereas Necros get energy for things dying, Ritualists (with Boon of Creation) get energy for things getting created.
Carinae
Actually, since this is a hero build, I don't like OoU on a MM hero. I don't trust a hero to be able to use OoU properly and not kill themselves. I would recommend JB+DN on Olias.
Concerning the above builds: I think the Rit build would have better spike damage, the Necro build would have better sustainable damage. In long fights, the Rit would be in trouble fast, but the Necro could keep going. So it depends on the nature of the mob you're fighting.
Concerning the above builds: I think the Rit build would have better spike damage, the Necro build would have better sustainable damage. In long fights, the Rit would be in trouble fast, but the Necro could keep going. So it depends on the nature of the mob you're fighting.
Puebert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
I could easily imagine scenarios where one dominated the other.
The Rit is only going to be able to have 8 lvl 10 bone minions, but the power of his build is in creating and destroying them, not as damage-platforms. I doubt if the Rit will ever reach the minion cap. From one corpse, he can get 2 EG + 2 DN + 2 more Jaggeds. But the minions themselves will be pathetic and won't contribute much.
No, I doubt he won't ever reach his cap, but the point of summoning two minions from a corpse (both of his Animate Spells do this) is a large plus in areas that do not have many minions, but then again, why would even bring a regular MM?
Quote: Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood The Necro build is a bit wonky with Dwaynas Sorrow and Rebirth. Dwayna's Sorow has some utility with a MM, but not when paired with OoU as the elite. Heal area works better here, because it heals for more and is predictable. (ie: it fires when you use it, not at random times when a minion dies) Yes, Dwayna's Sorrow was probobly not the best choice, but I did not wish to bring Heal Area because he does spam it like there is no tomorrow.
Quote:
You're just dreaming about Vamp Horrors canceling OoU. The lifesteal offset from Vamp Horrors is minor, unpredictable and useless...just like Dwayna's Sorrow. It won't work the way you want it to on a consistent basis.
I have, myself, ran an OoU MM build in Aspenwood (have yet to get my Necro through Elona) and I can tell you, the healing does outweigh the life loss, with enough health. The character was obviously PvP, but I gave it the + energy armor as well as a staff identical to [wiki]Ghial's Staff[/wiki] (due to the fact that [wiki]The Nightbringer[/wiki] is not create-able.
I sacrificed 9 health with each minion attack, and with roughly 6 Vamp Horrors, 4 Bone Fiends, and SoLS, I did not go below 80% health.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puebert
Yes, Dwayna's Sorrow was probobly not the best choice, but I did not wish to bring Heal Area because he does spam it like there is no tomorrow.
I sacrificed 9 health with each minion attack, and with roughly 6 Vamp Horrors, 4 Bone Fiends, and SoLS, I did not go below 80% health.
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Heh, yes indeed. I was just pointing out that the builds are different enough that it's hard to compare them directly. It's like comparing an MM to a Nuker.|
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
And Rebirth on an MM is just dumb. Replace Rebirth and Vamp Horrors with Heal Area and Rez Sig/Dark Bond.
I give all my Heroes Rebirth, I've found it helps more, but thats just personal prefrence.
I would still rather keep Vamp Horrors over HA/DB even if it did not outheal OoU. Its a skill to use while Bone Fiend is recharging.
Puebert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
Actually, since this is a hero build, I don't like OoU on a MM hero. I don't trust a hero to be able to use OoU properly and not kill themselves. I would recommend JB+DN on Olias.
Concerning the above builds: I think the Rit build would have better spike damage, the Necro build would have better sustainable damage. In long fights, the Rit would be in trouble fast, but the Necro could keep going. So it depends on the nature of the mob you're fighting. Jagged Bones (I've found) is a weaker elite in minion damage than OoU. While it is my icon (should probobly change that  ), the damage applied from Bleeding and a lesser level minion, doesn't overpower an over increase of ~17 damage. He does use this skill very well, its only used when he's in combat. And he uses SoLS almost too well. I've never seen him die from purely that spell.
I Phoenix I
Actually, the Nightbringer IS recreatable.
Bone Staff Adept Staff Head Aptitude Not Attitude Inscription Staff Wrapping of Fortitude
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puebert
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I have, myself, ran an OoU MM build in Aspenwood (have yet to get my Necro through Elona) and I can tell you, the healing does outweigh the life loss, with enough health.
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I sacrificed 9 health with each minion attack, and with roughly 6 Vamp Horrors, 4 Bone Fiends, and SoLS, I did not go below 80% health. OK, here's the deal. By using 6 VHs + OoU, you are getting lower DPS (and higher risk) than just using Fiends alone without OoU.
10 Fiends > 6VH + 4F + OoU
Not only for higher DPS, but less risk.
(Peak output for a MM would be 10 Fiends + OoU, even if a hero can't run that.)
...
I sacrificed 9 health with each minion attack, and with roughly 6 Vamp Horrors, 4 Bone Fiends, and SoLS, I did not go below 80% health. OK, here's the deal. By using 6 VHs + OoU, you are getting lower DPS (and higher risk) than just using Fiends alone without OoU.
10 Fiends > 6VH + 4F + OoU
Not only for higher DPS, but less risk.
(Peak output for a MM would be 10 Fiends + OoU, even if a hero can't run that.)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Puebert
I give all my Heroes Rebirth, I've found it helps more, but thats just personal prefrence.
Then I would disable it, and use it manually.
Carinae
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puebert
Jagged Bones (I've found) is a weaker elite in minion damage than OoU. While it is my icon (should probobly change that
), the damage applied from Bleeding and a lesser level minion, doesn't overpower an over increase of ~17 damage.
JB is not there for damage. It's a 2-for-1 Minion Discount Sale. JB+DN lets Olias Bomb continuously even in area with no corpses.JB just keeps Olias rolling. To a much lesser degree, you may be able to use the Bleeding somewhere else. (Virulence, Epidemic, etc) |