Archers Signet...your non-attack skills are disabled for 15...9 seconds. For 30 seconds, your next 1...6 bow attacks cost no Energy.
Expertise 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Disabled 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10 10 9 9 8 8 7 6 6
Attacks 1 1 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 7 7 7 8
The self defeating elite. The problems with this skill are that the more powerful you make it... the less you need it. Leaving you with either surplus energy or no real reason to use it in the first place.
You can run 12 Expertise and 14/15 Marksmanship with 10/8 Motivation of Command.
Motivation giving you a more passive supportive role with the use of the Restoration chants.
Command giving you a more direct offensive/defensive role with things like Go For The Eyes, Stand Your Ground or Fall Back as you wouldn't have to stop attacking to cast.
You would have to pay full price for all of these... but with Archers Signet leaving you open to use 6 attack skills free of charge it should help. To gain any real benefit you'd have to start on the usual high e-cost skills or skills with a more long term benefit. Concussion Shot, 25e, for long lasting dazed. Screaming Shot, 10e, for a decent amount of damage and bleeding. Pin Down, 15e, Crippling. Forked Arrow, 10e, double adren if free of hexes/enchantments for Go for the eyes.
It may not be perfect... but its a start to finding a use to such a shoddy elite. Anyone else have any ideas?
Could Archers Signet be useful as R/P?
Evilsod
Cathode_Reborn
I have an idea......tell Anet to buff Archer's Signet 
If you're not using a preparation, I think [skill]Marksman's Wager[/skill] would be better for energy. If you are using a preparation, I think [skill]Prepared shot[/skill] would be good too...........but never Archer's Signet
If you're not using a preparation, I think [skill]Marksman's Wager[/skill] would be better for energy. If you are using a preparation, I think [skill]Prepared shot[/skill] would be good too...........but never Archer's Signet
Evilsod
*sigh* i was hoping i wouldn't need to be specific.
There will be:
NO bitching about archers signet
NO telling me to use another elite
NO telling me to stop wasting my time
I didn't ask if Marksmans Wager or Prepared Shot would be more useful for this concept than Archers Signet. I asked if Archers Signet could be possible with this... A build that both uses its ability to make concussion shot spammable and not waste the excess energy.
And considering neither of those elites could really be used to spam concussion shot on top of paragon skills, it wasn't a good suggestion.
There will be:
NO bitching about archers signet
NO telling me to use another elite
NO telling me to stop wasting my time
I didn't ask if Marksmans Wager or Prepared Shot would be more useful for this concept than Archers Signet. I asked if Archers Signet could be possible with this... A build that both uses its ability to make concussion shot spammable and not waste the excess energy.
And considering neither of those elites could really be used to spam concussion shot on top of paragon skills, it wasn't a good suggestion.
Cathode_Reborn
B****ing? Let's not rage over a simple suggestion
[skill]Archer's Signet[/skill]
Look at the skill, compare it to the others. Marksman's Wager will fetch you tons more energy and you don't even need high expertise to get alot out of it. Archer's Signet will also disable your non-attack skills for a certain duration, meaning any adren skills you have won't be charging up in that time.
Marksman's Wager is massive energy gain, Archer's Signet just makes a few bow attacks free. There's a big difference. You can easily spam high-energy skills with Marksman's.
[skill]Archer's Signet[/skill]
Look at the skill, compare it to the others. Marksman's Wager will fetch you tons more energy and you don't even need high expertise to get alot out of it. Archer's Signet will also disable your non-attack skills for a certain duration, meaning any adren skills you have won't be charging up in that time.
Marksman's Wager is massive energy gain, Archer's Signet just makes a few bow attacks free. There's a big difference. You can easily spam high-energy skills with Marksman's.
ColaManiac
quickening zephyr + serpent's quickness + archer's signet = Free fast recharging bow attacks! huzaw!
there is realy no other use...
(so something like this, dual shot, forked arrow, go for the eyes, quickening zephyr, serpent's quickness, archer's signet,res, free slot
but placing attributes to 4 different places seems crazy, this was just a poor suggestion that came to my mind...
)
there is realy no other use...
(so something like this, dual shot, forked arrow, go for the eyes, quickening zephyr, serpent's quickness, archer's signet,res, free slot
but placing attributes to 4 different places seems crazy, this was just a poor suggestion that came to my mind...
)
SnipiousMax
Six free attacks @ 5 energy each (assuming 12 expertise, and 10 energy skills) means that you save 30 energy every 45 seconds. If we just imagined that it was giving us 30 extra energy every 45 seconds that would be less than one extra pip of energy to use. And I'm not sure that it would be worth it even if that was the way it worked.
But unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way. You don't regain energy any quicker, it just gives you a larger initial base to work with. Once you spent that thirty energy, you'd still have to regen it naturally, and your paragon side would be pretty worthless until you had an energy base to work with again. The only advantage I can see, is that you wouldn't be dependant on energy to use your attack skills.... but it doesn't make the paragon skills spamable by any sense of the imagination. I guess you could take two or three money skills, and use them only when you needed to... but if that was the case, then I'd suggest using other means of energy management would give you more bang for the buck.
But unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way. You don't regain energy any quicker, it just gives you a larger initial base to work with. Once you spent that thirty energy, you'd still have to regen it naturally, and your paragon side would be pretty worthless until you had an energy base to work with again. The only advantage I can see, is that you wouldn't be dependant on energy to use your attack skills.... but it doesn't make the paragon skills spamable by any sense of the imagination. I guess you could take two or three money skills, and use them only when you needed to... but if that was the case, then I'd suggest using other means of energy management would give you more bang for the buck.
Amy Awien
You wouln't use it with 5E bowattacks, 10E or higher is more likely, and it's not that you'd have to try hard to find usefull 10+ energy skills. You could use Archers Signet to drive those. Would still be odd, to preserve energy this way for the /P skills.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
You wouln't use it with 5E bowattacks, 10E or higher is more likely...
Yea, but 10e bow attacks @ 12 expertise means that they only cost 5 energy each.
Amy Awien
Ah, ok, yes. Sorry, it was still early day :s
Falconer
I think people have danced around the problem w/ this elite. But at the same time haven't realized that this is a skill which gains power w/ time. Sort of like Keystone signet gets more powerfull as more viable long recharge signet skills get added over time. I believe that archers signet fundamentally just needs more attack skills to combo it with.
To address the original poster. Yes I think you could use the signet to power any secondary including paragon shouts, but certain items need to be respected in the process. Such as the blackout... the blackout will wipe any adrenaline you have clean rendering many of your benefits void. At best archers signet frees your base 3 pips energy (or 1 energy a second) for use on something else but only during it's non-blackout window. Any excess gains it delivers though must be spent on bow attacks. Though to be honost I'd rather put paragon shouts on a paragon than on a ranger... unless the ranger primary was already in the build and the paragon shout had to be shoehorned in somehow.
Namely the big problem w/ this elite is there aren't enough costly bow attacks to make it worthwhile. Even with high expertise, you can't spam 15 or 25 energy bow attacks. ~2 pips of extra regen isn't enough to justify using it w/ a selection of 10 energy attacks. (4 cost * 7 == 28... over 45s... ~2pips).
I personally don't think the skill will get due respect until more high cost ranger attacks are added to the game. If I get 7 freebies out of 15-25 cost skills and they average say 9 a pop. Now that 30'ish figure given above is looking like a much more respectable 63'ish figure over 30s (or roughly 6 extra pips of energy). That's ether prodigy grade, now unlike prodigy though 6 of the 9 pips are directly tied to your attack skills, but that still frees your 3 pips energy for other uses.
Currently the ranger only has Pin Down(15), Concussion Shot(25), Broadhead Arrow (25*), and Crippling Shot (15*). The last two are elite so can be ruled out from use w/ the signet right away. Pin down has a 15s recharge which means it's not spammable enough to be usable. Concussion shot w/ it's reduced recharge now is really the only use, but concussion shot alone doesn't make a bar. Even w/ SQ to speed it up to 3s recharge (5s cycle) and archers down to 30s.
One of my gripes w/ the ranger has been and still is that the ranger lacks any thing in the line of big energy marksmanship attacks. In the days of yore there was the 15 energy power shot... (the +10..42 version which left some huge welts, on a 3s recharge, and 15 energy up front cost). A skill like that would justify. In fact, in those days, power shot was my only attack skill and I'd simply use it as my only big damage shot, while bringing a lot of utility like cripple and such. Those days will never come again, but the concept is still semi-valid if you can bring 2-3 big energy bow attacks to the same effect.
One of my other gripes which has been better addressed w/ factions and nightfall was the lack of good cheap bow skills. But skills like crossfire and such have largely mitigated this, as you can make a respectable nickle store ranger sipping energy off say crossfire, hunters shot, and barrage*, while still keeping expertise at a fairly low 8,9, or 13. And still have attribute points and skills worth spending elsewhere.
To give an example framework of this kind of candidate build given above...
Archer's Signet*
Quickening Zephyr and/or Serpents Quickness (brings archers signet recharge down to 15s, increase costs for those around you while you spend nothing; old school meets new school style energy shutdown pressure warfare).
Attack skills which get scary under above framework...
Concussion shot (concussion shot w/ a recharge of 2s and bargain basement 0 cost)
Debilitating Shot (w/ high marks and a short recycle this gets downright scary, as soon as you've brought QZ you've declared nuclear energy war... You'll do the bow damage whether you use DS or not, in fact it's oppurtunity cost is not using another bow attack in the same time frame... the point is that instead of I spend 4energy to maybe strip 8 or 9 of yours... now I spend NO ENERGY to strip 8 or 9 of yours!).
Pin Down (recycle drops to 5-8s, w/ 12s cripples.. not too shabby)
Marauders Shot/Penetrating shot/Forked Arrow: Single skill spammable damage attacks you can easily use every other, or every attack (recharges 6s or under). Just listed as current ways to get damage, not that damage is the best use of your time w/ a bow.
Preps: (keep in mind archers signet blacks these out.. so apply just before using)
Apply poison: poison over daze, poison over cripple
Seeking Arrows: only need to watch out for the blinds
RtW: low energy, long lasting, enhances accuracy greatly w/ modest +dam (w/ a recurve you almost can't miss).
Traps: if you don't have to spend energy on your bow attacks, you already have the survival spec for SQ/QZ... this frees up roughly 18 energy every 30s for a trap or two.
To address the original poster. Yes I think you could use the signet to power any secondary including paragon shouts, but certain items need to be respected in the process. Such as the blackout... the blackout will wipe any adrenaline you have clean rendering many of your benefits void. At best archers signet frees your base 3 pips energy (or 1 energy a second) for use on something else but only during it's non-blackout window. Any excess gains it delivers though must be spent on bow attacks. Though to be honost I'd rather put paragon shouts on a paragon than on a ranger... unless the ranger primary was already in the build and the paragon shout had to be shoehorned in somehow.
Namely the big problem w/ this elite is there aren't enough costly bow attacks to make it worthwhile. Even with high expertise, you can't spam 15 or 25 energy bow attacks. ~2 pips of extra regen isn't enough to justify using it w/ a selection of 10 energy attacks. (4 cost * 7 == 28... over 45s... ~2pips).
I personally don't think the skill will get due respect until more high cost ranger attacks are added to the game. If I get 7 freebies out of 15-25 cost skills and they average say 9 a pop. Now that 30'ish figure given above is looking like a much more respectable 63'ish figure over 30s (or roughly 6 extra pips of energy). That's ether prodigy grade, now unlike prodigy though 6 of the 9 pips are directly tied to your attack skills, but that still frees your 3 pips energy for other uses.
Currently the ranger only has Pin Down(15), Concussion Shot(25), Broadhead Arrow (25*), and Crippling Shot (15*). The last two are elite so can be ruled out from use w/ the signet right away. Pin down has a 15s recharge which means it's not spammable enough to be usable. Concussion shot w/ it's reduced recharge now is really the only use, but concussion shot alone doesn't make a bar. Even w/ SQ to speed it up to 3s recharge (5s cycle) and archers down to 30s.
One of my gripes w/ the ranger has been and still is that the ranger lacks any thing in the line of big energy marksmanship attacks. In the days of yore there was the 15 energy power shot... (the +10..42 version which left some huge welts, on a 3s recharge, and 15 energy up front cost). A skill like that would justify. In fact, in those days, power shot was my only attack skill and I'd simply use it as my only big damage shot, while bringing a lot of utility like cripple and such. Those days will never come again, but the concept is still semi-valid if you can bring 2-3 big energy bow attacks to the same effect.
One of my other gripes which has been better addressed w/ factions and nightfall was the lack of good cheap bow skills. But skills like crossfire and such have largely mitigated this, as you can make a respectable nickle store ranger sipping energy off say crossfire, hunters shot, and barrage*, while still keeping expertise at a fairly low 8,9, or 13. And still have attribute points and skills worth spending elsewhere.
To give an example framework of this kind of candidate build given above...
Archer's Signet*
Quickening Zephyr and/or Serpents Quickness (brings archers signet recharge down to 15s, increase costs for those around you while you spend nothing; old school meets new school style energy shutdown pressure warfare).
Attack skills which get scary under above framework...
Concussion shot (concussion shot w/ a recharge of 2s and bargain basement 0 cost)
Debilitating Shot (w/ high marks and a short recycle this gets downright scary, as soon as you've brought QZ you've declared nuclear energy war... You'll do the bow damage whether you use DS or not, in fact it's oppurtunity cost is not using another bow attack in the same time frame... the point is that instead of I spend 4energy to maybe strip 8 or 9 of yours... now I spend NO ENERGY to strip 8 or 9 of yours!).
Pin Down (recycle drops to 5-8s, w/ 12s cripples.. not too shabby)
Marauders Shot/Penetrating shot/Forked Arrow: Single skill spammable damage attacks you can easily use every other, or every attack (recharges 6s or under). Just listed as current ways to get damage, not that damage is the best use of your time w/ a bow.
Preps: (keep in mind archers signet blacks these out.. so apply just before using)
Apply poison: poison over daze, poison over cripple
Seeking Arrows: only need to watch out for the blinds
RtW: low energy, long lasting, enhances accuracy greatly w/ modest +dam (w/ a recurve you almost can't miss).
Traps: if you don't have to spend energy on your bow attacks, you already have the survival spec for SQ/QZ... this frees up roughly 18 energy every 30s for a trap or two.