oh the touchie our good ol' friend
Age
Like JR said it is a team game and what is your team doing if they aren't helping you stop protecting them.You could use shield bash and bash them or sprint away.
Evilsod
Lol, gg Apple.
Aren't you slightly late for this debate? After 3 whole months of people whining and bitching about Touch Rangers 'pwning' morons in control of warriors, guess what changed? Erm... the description of 'Expertise', which now clearly states 'Touch Skills' are included and will NOT be getting changed.
No-one gives a toss about RA or AB as far as skill balancing goes. Touchers making it to higher level HA would get destroyed by a good team. Its a powerful build... but vs snares, degen, anti-spam, shutdown, etc, its useless. Fought many of them in ABs recently... they really don't do much when your playing cripshot.
I doubt Can't Touch This was to stop Touch Rangers. Seems much more likely to counter Blackout, Shock, Starburst, etc
Aren't you slightly late for this debate? After 3 whole months of people whining and bitching about Touch Rangers 'pwning' morons in control of warriors, guess what changed? Erm... the description of 'Expertise', which now clearly states 'Touch Skills' are included and will NOT be getting changed.
No-one gives a toss about RA or AB as far as skill balancing goes. Touchers making it to higher level HA would get destroyed by a good team. Its a powerful build... but vs snares, degen, anti-spam, shutdown, etc, its useless. Fought many of them in ABs recently... they really don't do much when your playing cripshot.
I doubt Can't Touch This was to stop Touch Rangers. Seems much more likely to counter Blackout, Shock, Starburst, etc
ss1986v2
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
Touchies need to die. GG.
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beside you missed the boat on this discussion, by about 6 months. gw is a team game. no build is greater than all others. your prot monk does well against warriors, rangers, and other melee classes but not against touchies? well, duh! touchies are not overpowered (against a good team, at their best, they can be an annoyance. against a bad team, they can be somewhat effective). and they are only truly useful in large numbers (i recall an ab from a few months back where the other team had 8 touchers and 2 MMs). but you dont see that anymore, they are few and far between these days.
and again, its RA. Random Arena. you dont know what you are going to get, so you wont always have a counter for everything. thats what RA is. deal with it.
Navaros
Touchers are fine and players who know what they're doing don't lose to them.
A monk dying to a toucher as stated in the original post means there is something seriously wrong with the monk's skillbar or the monk's understanding of the game, because the best toucher build does not do enough damage to kill a properly-played monk.
Touchers will get especially creamed in HA and only reign in other areas because the other players are especially bad and do not bring counters or competent builds of their own.
People should really stop complaining about touchers and instead learn how to play properly.
A monk dying to a toucher as stated in the original post means there is something seriously wrong with the monk's skillbar or the monk's understanding of the game, because the best toucher build does not do enough damage to kill a properly-played monk.
Touchers will get especially creamed in HA and only reign in other areas because the other players are especially bad and do not bring counters or competent builds of their own.
People should really stop complaining about touchers and instead learn how to play properly.
Dr Strangelove
Wha....? Touchers deal about as much damage to you as a mending wammo slamming away with power attack. That is to say, not much. If you can't muster up the healing power to negate a toucher, there's a MAJOR problem with your build.
And why run anything but ZB on a monk in RA?
And why run anything but ZB on a monk in RA?
qwe4rty
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
Am I right on this? Why do people play touchie's? There are so many better builds out there.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
Why hasn't Anet lit it up with the nerf laser yet?
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I certainly don't think a nerf laser is needed. And saying you can't kite cuz they could have an assassin on their team says nothing about the touch rangers. In fact, I think thats mentioning assassins.
Alfrond
Its funny. I monk a lot in AB and sometimes in RA, but I haven't really run into touch rangers lately. I kinda thought that build was losing popularity.
Anyway, I personally have never really had many problems with touchers. However, I'm sympathetic to the OP because its never fun to get totally beat up when one plays monk
The problem I guess is the fact that your a prot monk. Thats perfectly fine, but its always kind of a gamble when you choose a build as it's really hard to create a build thats good against anything. My advise to the OP is to ignore the snarky comments disparaging your playing ability and check out some of the skills mentioned. Experiment to find what is right for you!
Anyway, I personally have never really had many problems with touchers. However, I'm sympathetic to the OP because its never fun to get totally beat up when one plays monk
The problem I guess is the fact that your a prot monk. Thats perfectly fine, but its always kind of a gamble when you choose a build as it's really hard to create a build thats good against anything. My advise to the OP is to ignore the snarky comments disparaging your playing ability and check out some of the skills mentioned. Experiment to find what is right for you!
You just got tomahawked
First off to clear up anything about me and my monking abilities. I'm a R2 glad and R7 hero. I got both of thsese by playing monk. I am not a noob and I love my build. My build counters everything besides a touchie and a mes. I guess the only reason I posted this was because I had a string of bad luck against touchies. Secondly, I said I played against a group of touchie's in HA. We won against them but it still annoyed me that they were even there. I have also heard much in these posts about touchies dealing damage. They do not deal damage they use life stealing. So, a prot monk prevents DAMAGE no effect against life stealing. Lastly, I was using the assasin scenario as a hypothetical situation.
Navaros
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Originally Posted by Alfrond
The problem I guess is the fact that your a prot monk. Thats perfectly fine, but its always kind of a gamble when you choose a build as it's really hard to create a build thats good against anything.
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I've also played as the ideal toucher build in RA all the time, and the only time it ever kills enemy monks, even if they're not boon prots, is if the enemy monks have a very whacky, ineffective skillbar.
Jecht Scye
ZB + return like earlier stated. As a monk there is little you can do to help your team except try as you might to keep them alive and pray that they do enough damage and/or shutdown the touch rangers.
You just got tomahawked
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Originally Posted by Navaros
Saying his problem is he is a prot monk is totally incorrect. I play boon prot monk in RA all the time (just like the OP does according to the OP) and not once as a boon prot monk have I ever died to a single enemy toucher. It would be impossible for a single toucher on his own to kill a boon prot monk with a proper skillbar and proper understanding of the game.
I've also played as the ideal toucher build in RA all the time, and the only time it ever kills enemy monks, even if they're not boon prots, is if the enemy monks have a very whacky, ineffective skillbar. |
Navaros
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
boon prot was nerfed beyond belief in case you haven't noticed.
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You just got tomahawked
The one where Divine boon costs 2 energy when triggered. So your spamming 7 energy when you use RoF and Guardian. No one plays that build anymore.
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
[DE]
It's always been like that. The "nerf" that they did on Divine Boon was increase it's recharge time to make CoP less useful on the build.
Apple
Divine Boon was always like that. The reason boon prots arent run any more is due to the nerfing of all elite energy management in addition to the fact that the actual heal from boon has been reduced a lot.
You just got tomahawked
oh well its not played anyomre. there.
ss1986v2
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
boon prot was nerfed beyond belief in case you haven't noticed.
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the two biggest reasons why boons went out of favor had little to do with the changes to boon specifically, although that did contribute. the first was the changes to the inspirations line and if you want to go way back to the OoB change. and second reason was the introduction of better skills. boon required you to invest your secondary and your elite into an energy management skill. with new elites, as well as the rise in popularity of different secondaries, investing so many points into a line and locking up your secondary just for a now gimped energy management skill made little sense.
and as for the adding +2 energy to boon, its always been +2 energy. the skill balance that changed things was the 9/14/06 skill balance, along with the before mentioned changes.
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Originally Posted by GuildWars.com
September 14, 2006
Divine Boon: increased recharge time to 10 seconds, decreased amount healed to 15..60. |
[DE]
Just because it's not popular doesn't mean you can't use it.
Apok Omen
1) Divine Boon was played in GvG/HA/TA/RA/AB even when it took away 2 energy per cast. They found a way to keep up their energy.
2) Boon Prots were nerfed 4 months ago (or earlier than that) when Anet reduced the energy gain from Inspired/Revealed Hex, Drain Enchantment, Mantra of Recall, and Energy Drain. Once again, the -2 energy never bothered anyone.
3) Touch Rangers are not even a threat anymore. All you have to do is heal over the life-stealing, then pound their face in. Yes, I am well aware of their defensive stance, but with the new additions from NightFall, Grenth Trains and Melandru tanks and the new Monk skills just flat out gimp them.
2) Boon Prots were nerfed 4 months ago (or earlier than that) when Anet reduced the energy gain from Inspired/Revealed Hex, Drain Enchantment, Mantra of Recall, and Energy Drain. Once again, the -2 energy never bothered anyone.
3) Touch Rangers are not even a threat anymore. All you have to do is heal over the life-stealing, then pound their face in. Yes, I am well aware of their defensive stance, but with the new additions from NightFall, Grenth Trains and Melandru tanks and the new Monk skills just flat out gimp them.
Clinically Proven
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Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions
Try P&H to increase your regen and divine spirit while you fill up again .....
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OP, as Brother Andicus have previously advised, please take this bar to RA, you will be set for most things (including touchers - OMG HAX!!11!!!) it'll even be quite useable in HA as well:
Monk/Assassin
Divine Favor: 9 (8+1)
Healing Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Protection Prayers: 15 (12+1+2)
Shadow Arts: 9
Zealous Benediction [Elite]
Gift of Health
Sheild of Absorption (or Reversal of Fortune)
Protective Spirit
Dismiss Condition
Holy Veil
Dark Escape
Return
You just got tomahawked
Must I reiterate? I love the build I'm using. I have gotten so many glad points off of this build. I posted this because of the recent upsurgence of touchies. Every build has their downfall and touchies are mine. To Clinically Proven: I have seen that build a million times and I hate it. This thread was not created to discuss how much of a noob I supposedly am (im not BTW). This was created to discuss the touchie. Some people really need to take a reading comprehension class.
Alfrond
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Originally Posted by Navaros
Saying his problem is he is a prot monk is totally incorrect. I play boon prot monk in RA all the time (just like the OP does according to the OP) and not once as a boon prot monk have I ever died to a single enemy toucher. It would be impossible for a single toucher on his own to kill a boon prot monk with a proper skillbar and proper understanding of the game.
I've also played as the ideal toucher build in RA all the time, and the only time it ever kills enemy monks, even if they're not boon prots, is if the enemy monks have a very whacky, ineffective skillbar. |
[DE]
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
Must I reiterate? I love the build I'm using.
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Takkun
I know no one is gonna read this of care about my opinion, but here it goes:
Stop running the same damn build! If you don't like touch skills being used against you, then think of something you can change. For instance, I have a feeling that Scourge Healing can do some decent defensive damage to a toucher. Haven't tested it, but I'm sure it will destroy them.
Stop running the same damn build! If you don't like touch skills being used against you, then think of something you can change. For instance, I have a feeling that Scourge Healing can do some decent defensive damage to a toucher. Haven't tested it, but I'm sure it will destroy them.
ss1986v2
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
Must I reiterate? I love the build I'm using.
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if it was to whine, then lets just close this thread now. we have done this before. six months ago, ppl flooded this forum whining about touchers (there was a thread with like 500 posts in it about touchers and counters). counters were offered and the young ones learned how to beat them, and the world was better for it. then there were ppl that said "i love my uber build and cant change it EVER!!11! noob touchers need to be asploded!" they were told to go sit in the corner back then. then anet came out and told them to stay in the corner with the non-nerf to touchers.
and here again, those sentiments will be expressed again: if you dont want advice, dont post here. if all you want to do is whine, go back to the corner.
Navaros
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
Must I reiterate? I love the build I'm using.
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@Alfrond: My bad too for not reading the OP more clearly. My apologies for that.
Alfrond
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Originally Posted by ss1986v2
so why post here? if you didnt want help with how to counter a touch, why come here?
if it was to whine, then lets just close this thread now. we have done this before. six months ago, ppl flooded this forum whining about touchers (there was a thread with like 500 posts in it about touchers and counters). counters were offered and the young ones learned how to beat them, and the world was better for it. then there were ppl that said "i love my uber build and cant change it EVER!!11! noob touchers need to be asploded!" they were told to go sit in the corner back then. then anet came out and told them to stay in the corner with the non-nerf to touchers. and here again, those sentiments will be expressed again: if you dont want advice, dont post here. if all you want to do is whine, go back to the corner. |
I understand, tomahawk, that it stinks to have a build you love show weakness, especially against a build that Guild Wars culture says you should be ashamed to lose to. However, there are really only two things you can do. You can stick with your current build, which as you said is great against all other adversaries, and just do your best to kite away from touchers or recieve help from team mates or whatever. Or, you can make some revisions to your build. You probably don't need to scrap it. For example, KD Assassins were causing me huge amounts of grief when I was playing my ZB, so I worked balanced stance into my build. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you good luck.
On a seperate note, I think we all need to cut touch rangers some slack. They chose a build becuase they thought it looked useful, just like others did. It has its strengths, and its weaknesses, and just like other builds it sometimes wins and sometimes loses. Since it appears that Anet has decided that touch rangers aren't horribly unbalanced, I say we give touchers the same respect we would give any other players
sixdartbart
Perhaps you could organize a monk strike in RA until Anet takes action against these evil bastards?? I've heard strikes are quite effective
You just got tomahawked
I give up. If Alfrond and a few others are the only ones that can read then I'm not going to keep posting. I thank very much the people that DID pay attention in their reading 101 class and answered my question w/o flaming me. I'm not a noob (R2 glad, R7 hero incase people still havn't comprehended my last post). I just needed some honest advice. I'm actually asking this post be closed because of how mutualted and flamed out it has become.
You just got tomahawked
Last post I swear.
Uncalled for.
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Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Perhaps you could organize a monk strike in RA until Anet takes action against these evil bastards?? I've heard strikes are quite effective
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Uncalled for.
Yichi
Build mechanics 101: every build has a counter. some counters you just run into more than others.
if your build does great against every other builds, just does bad against touchers, than unfortunately the toucher build is a counter to your build. youll either have to change your build to adapt to counter touchers, or just deal with it and go back in thats about honestly the only advice you can follow.
if your build does great against every other builds, just does bad against touchers, than unfortunately the toucher build is a counter to your build. youll either have to change your build to adapt to counter touchers, or just deal with it and go back in
thats about honestly the only advice you can follow.
You just got tomahawked
No really last post.
^^^^^^^^^^^^Exactly what I wanted. (note the lack of flames.)
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Originally Posted by MistressYichi
Build mechanics 101: every build has a counter. some counters you just run into more than others.
if your build does great against every other builds, just does bad against touchers, than unfortunately the toucher build is a counter to your build. youll either have to change your build to adapt to counter touchers, or just deal with it and go back in thats about honestly the only advice you can follow. |
^^^^^^^^^^^^Exactly what I wanted. (note the lack of flames.)
Yichi
yw. and lack of flames due to me being in a good mood :P
Clinically Proven
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Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked
I'm not a noob (R2 glad, R7 hero incase people still havn't comprehended my last post)....
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Furthermore, let me get this right:
You hate touchers because they own you. You are unwilling to change builds to a suitable RA build that can deal with them and handle most encounters. Your solution = nerf touchers.
I don't think we can assist you further.
Redfeather1975
What if you bring a water or illusion hex. That might be enough to dampen the spirits of team of touch rangers. I normally play a mesmer in RA and have found that it's really hit and miss in random arena. Sometimes my build is great for what I'm up against, other times it is completely useless. Such is the flaw of not being able to put together your own team. I don't think there is any build that is always usefull in RA.
Apple
Wow, you're rank 7 and cant kite? IWAY fame anyone?
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
I don't think there is any build that is always usefull in RA.
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Apple
[skill]Hamstring[/skill][skill]Fire Storm[/skill]
crucifix
anti touch: mo/e glyph lesser +grasping earth.
hell i run that all the time, fun as hell.
or just go mo/a and bring return
hell i run that all the time, fun as hell.
or just go mo/a and bring return
Faer
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Originally Posted by Alleji
[skill]Shame[/skill] [skill]Guilt[/skill] [skill]Diversion[/skill] [skill]Blinding Surge[/skill] [skill]Empathy[/skill] [skill]Backfire[/skill] [skill]Inspired Enchantment[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by [Apple]
[skill]Hamstring[/skill][skill]Fire Storm[/skill]
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You. Me. Scrimmage. Now.