I've noticed an (another) annoying behavior from the AI. I call target, the melee fighters rush in and start hitting. The enemy AI sends one or more fighters in behind our lines. I start to kite to avoid being hit. I notice that members of my party disengage from fighting and start moving around too -- including the melee fighters who should still be attacking.
In most circumstances it doesn't hurt much, but I wonder if it is a factor when the party nearly wipes in more difficult areas.
In my opinion, heroes and henchmen shouldn't disengage unless you set a party flag or run a significant distance from the fight. I know this might be a difficult balance because you want the party to follow you in a retreat. But the situation I'm describing happens when I move in or around the back of the enemy.
Just want to get this out there so that ANet will see it.
Thanks in advance.
Why do Heroes/Henchmen disengage when I kite?
Forjo
Vinraith
I've noticed this behavior and found it problematic as well, for what it's worth.
darktyco
This is the most frustrating thing about the hero/hench AI for me. It has definitely caused wipes for me in the torment area. I understand that they think you might be beating a retreat so they follow you, but it seems like if you lock their target they should stay on that target and not follow you. If there isn't anything already, there really needs to be a way to tell your heroes to not retreat when you run.
It is also very annoying when I want to run over and pick up some gold while my henchies clean up the last of a mob
It is also very annoying when I want to run over and pick up some gold while my henchies clean up the last of a mob
Age
I find the same thing as well everytime i kite away they fallow me instead of staying back fighting and not only that bringing the mobs with them towards me.
Xero Silvam
use the party flag near the battle and your team won't move when you kite.
kalstrand
I've had that problem but even worse than that is if I die for some reason they all switch targets and noone switches to the same target. The henchies are really bad about this and when you are dead calling a target does nothing.
For example I have all my heros/hench attacking Mob A. I die and now all the melees tend to switch to random targerts, Koss might stay on Mob A or he might switch, Devona is almost guaranteed to switch to Mob B, Gheraz will almost always go after Mob C, and the casters will start to randomly target other Mobs D-F or whatever.
For example I have all my heros/hench attacking Mob A. I die and now all the melees tend to switch to random targerts, Koss might stay on Mob A or he might switch, Devona is almost guaranteed to switch to Mob B, Gheraz will almost always go after Mob C, and the casters will start to randomly target other Mobs D-F or whatever.
Alya
Yes, the disengaging behaviour and loss of target upon our death very annoying. I observe it every time, especially when I go out with a non-melee character: ranger or monk.
cellardweller
Flags and crosshairs are your friends.
cosyfiep
flags dont always work.....I have flagged my henchies/heros a long ways a way (the way we came where there are no mobs) to get them to disengage....only to have them continue fighting to their own deaths.......
seems that when you want them to fight, they run; when you want them to run, they fight.......argh!
seems that when you want them to fight, they run; when you want them to run, they fight.......argh!
The Abbott
lol, you have to use the hero controls properly,, there is a crosshair when you can make them attack that person no matter what,
and btw being able to break your heroes from aggro has saved me countless times,,,,, a lot more times than it has killed me
and btw being able to break your heroes from aggro has saved me countless times,,,,, a lot more times than it has killed me
King's Spectre
I agree with the above poster. I would much rather have them easily break agro than have the old system where I'd loose my warriors every time I had to fall back.
When I'm questing with my monk, I usually flag the henchies into agro with the enemy first.
When I'm questing with my monk, I usually flag the henchies into agro with the enemy first.
Patrick Smit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by King's Spectre
I agree with the above poster. I would much rather have them easily break agro than have the old system where I'd loose my warriors every time I had to fall back.
When I'm questing with my monk, I usually flag the henchies into agro with the enemy first. |
Crosshairs are nice, but its a lot of micromanagement and they are not present on the aggressive henchmen
darktyco
Flagging is also difficult to do accurately when you have a split second to do it, while kiting, while trying to heal.
Kuldebar Valiturus
I just wish playing with other human controlled characters was possible. 
nebuchanezzar
In response to the OP, yes they do disengage whenever you do anything more than wiggling. It does suck but the alternative was that they never ran until you were long gone. I would appreciate if they can give me some more leeway, such as Shout distance then they always run. That would give my caster characters room to kite w/o breaking up heroes.
You can flag but I dislike that for susceptibility to AoE. It does stop the movement though.
As far as the heroes and hench breaking off when you die well, they lost their leader and all spaz like scared wuss's and go off half cocked....sucks....but I think it's funny usually. Crosshair action fixes it like mentioned. I agree that its too much micro(micro is for GvG not PvE lol) and only find myself doing it during boss battles or large engagements.
The real cure is to play a melee class character =]. They will always follow your target.
You can flag but I dislike that for susceptibility to AoE. It does stop the movement though.
As far as the heroes and hench breaking off when you die well, they lost their leader and all spaz like scared wuss's and go off half cocked....sucks....but I think it's funny usually. Crosshair action fixes it like mentioned. I agree that its too much micro(micro is for GvG not PvE lol) and only find myself doing it during boss battles or large engagements.
The real cure is to play a melee class character =]. They will always follow your target.
baz777
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus
I just wish playing with other human controlled characters was possible.
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Oh, and to change his skillbar as well!
Using crosshairs and flags takes practice but works adequately for me
Priest Of Sin
In defense of W/Mo... I bring Rebirth, and no other monk spells. NO MORE W/Mo Hate!
I use this little AI bug to my advantage, actually. When I use Incindiary Bonds (sp?), I want the thing i put it on to live for the next 3 seconds. I move a bit, the heroes disengage, and then iv'e lit up the entire enemy mob.
I use this little AI bug to my advantage, actually. When I use Incindiary Bonds (sp?), I want the thing i put it on to live for the next 3 seconds. I move a bit, the heroes disengage, and then iv'e lit up the entire enemy mob.
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Age
fallow me instead of staying back fighting
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Maximumraver
Same here... and its really annoying... and Acolyte Jin an Zhed Shadowhoof go Leeeeeroooooy on me way too much <_<
strcpy
The problem with writing an AI is that it is *really* hard to figure out what they need to do.
More often than not them sticking to the target harder would be bad. I'm willing to bet that some party wipes in harder areas are due to them running too often, however them *not* running would result in much worse.
For the most part, I do not see much difference in AoE damage if I plant a flag or not, they still scatter about the same. In the more difficult areas - where this is really important - it just becomes part of the game. Flag, pull, reflag (if needed), call targets and do my part. That way I never get caught up in trying to kite, heal, and control them.
Really, right now I have WAY more issue with them not following called targets well and "guests" ignoring anything I do or signal. I wouldn't mind a "retreat" call and them assume "stand your ground" until I signal it, but I doubt it will happen. We can already mostly get that with flags.
More often than not them sticking to the target harder would be bad. I'm willing to bet that some party wipes in harder areas are due to them running too often, however them *not* running would result in much worse.
For the most part, I do not see much difference in AoE damage if I plant a flag or not, they still scatter about the same. In the more difficult areas - where this is really important - it just becomes part of the game. Flag, pull, reflag (if needed), call targets and do my part. That way I never get caught up in trying to kite, heal, and control them.
Really, right now I have WAY more issue with them not following called targets well and "guests" ignoring anything I do or signal. I wouldn't mind a "retreat" call and them assume "stand your ground" until I signal it, but I doubt it will happen. We can already mostly get that with flags.
eudas
the AI is swifter to move to follow you because pre-nightfall, the henchies were slow to disengage, resulting in the opposite problem: they'd get themselves killed and wouldn't follow the pc's until you'd ran miles away.
so, they made the heroes/henchies follow you very fast indeed, and now they disengage to follow you a bit *too* quickly. in anet's defense, it's hard to pace how fast is fast enough, or too slow, since it depends largely on the pc's playstyles, which vary widely.
eudas
so, they made the heroes/henchies follow you very fast indeed, and now they disengage to follow you a bit *too* quickly. in anet's defense, it's hard to pace how fast is fast enough, or too slow, since it depends largely on the pc's playstyles, which vary widely.
eudas
Myria
Quote:
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Originally Posted by strcpy
I wouldn't mind a "retreat" call and them assume "stand your ground" until I signal it, but I doubt it will happen.
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Tyrnne
With my monk, kiting is often necessary to survive. So if I find an area where I have to kite to beat the mob, I use the individual flags for the spellcaster heroes to keep them "safe" and then flag the rest near the action. Then I can kite all I want.
ValaOfTheFens
I noticed that. I usually just press C so they continue to attack. Its just that my heroes sometimes run headlong into battle with my henchies and I don't understand why. I have all of them on Guard and so they should stay near me. Truthfully, the weird AI just makes the game more challenging. *lol*
Stig Figger
I have noticed heroes stop fighting to scatter when I move closer into the battle (to do a Touch for eg.). I think it happens only when I WASD closer to my target and not when I just activate the skill (have to experiment to confirm this).
Age
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Are you kiting laterally and maintaining the same distance to the mob, or running away? Running back tends to disengage, I find.
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Diablo???
map the flags to a hot key, flaggin via hotkeys are a life saver when dealing with henchies and hero parties.
Mylon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin
In defense of W/Mo... I bring Rebirth, and no other monk spells. NO MORE W/Mo Hate!
I use this little AI bug to my advantage, actually. When I use Incindiary Bonds (sp?), I want the thing i put it on to live for the next 3 seconds. I move a bit, the heroes disengage, and then iv'e lit up the entire enemy mob. |