This was discussed in the wildfire build thread but it needs its own discussion, explanation, and analysis. The build has also been refined since then.
Maxed Fire Mastery
Maxed Leadership (with Major Rune - no difference in effect with superior)
Rest in Motivation (no rune needed here)
a Superior Spear Mastery Rune and helm would help in terms of gaining adrenaline faster.
[skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Glowing Signet[/skill][skill]"They're on Fire!"[/skill][skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill][skill]Energizing Chorus[/skill][skill]"Never Give Up!"[/skill]and a res signet.
Okay, before everyone opens their yap about the lack of energy a paragon has and the skill selection, read this explanation of how it works.
You cast Fire Attunement just as you would for any other SF'er. Then you can go straight into SF, then glowing signet, then They're on Fire, then SF, then glowing gaze, the SF, etc.
Make sure you are attacking during this time (contrary to popular belief, it is possible to attack between casts to gain adrenaline) GFTE and Energizing Chorus Charge slowly but they will get there. If you can cast Energizing Chorus right before They're on Fire. Why are these skills here? First, Energizing Chorus cuts down on energy costs of ToF. Secondly, when these skills finally do charge and are cast, they are free energy. You get about 7 energy from each of these when used.
With this energy economy, I was able to cast SF just as fast if not faster than my SF elementalist. How faster? There are more skills providing you with energy boosts. Often on my SF ele, I must wait for Glowing Gaze or Glowing Signet before my next SF cast. In this build, I rarely wait ever. I can cast as soon as SF is up almost all the time.
BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT DAMAGE READ THIS:
Most people say that this is a completely useless build because a real SF can do more damage with the Runes they can wear. Consider this:
SF damage with superior Rune AND pyro eye: 119
SF with maxed and no bonuses: 91
difference: 28
Glowing Gaze with Rune and Eye: 53
Gaze with no Runes or bonuses: 41
difference: 12
These are not all that different. Yes, as the casts stack up the difference becomes exponential and relatively significant. However, consider that the SF elementalist is not adding a 41% damage reduction for your entire party while simulteneously doing significant damage to enemies.
I am not making a value judgement. I would never abandon my SF nuker but I think this is a pretty solid build considering hte significant damage and the party defensive bonus.
Searing Flames/"They're on Fire!" Paragon
Mad5cout
crime.mob
the addition of searing flames and other elementalist atts to the TOF build (which really did needed help at first... paragons are by no means supposed to axe out their opponents... atleast with a support build with small self healing) was a beautiful idea. Glowing signet is a must for a fire build, and I was suprised that the old TOF build didn't have it.
however the rest of the build could be better... go for the eyes is a HORRIBLE addition (unless you use a spear, otherwise i dont think you tested this build yourself) because this build has NO attack skills, and you will barely have enough adrenaline to chant it (even though it gives you free energy once in a while, its a waste of a skill slot)
Energizing chorus is a questionable addition if you don't have any other shouters, it seems to be there for the same reason as "go for the eyes" (energy).
Anthem of flame is a must if you want your allies to cause fire damage and tank it out too, and it also costs only 1 net energy in RA and TA. You should take out the nonfire/nonuseful skills and add in skills that catch people on fire (such as blazing finale). I always like to have either, signet of synergy or ballad of restoration worked into any of my builds (or both of these skills), as they are better heals than most monk spells. This build could use signet of synergy, because this build has no self heals and that the best defence is always a heal
EDIT: i just read that you were going to put "max fire magic, max leadership, and the rest in motivation. :P you've never made a paragon before b/c you dont have any motivational skills in your build! lol k w/e good idea of adding searing flames, don't want to bash an ele too bad.
however the rest of the build could be better... go for the eyes is a HORRIBLE addition (unless you use a spear, otherwise i dont think you tested this build yourself) because this build has NO attack skills, and you will barely have enough adrenaline to chant it (even though it gives you free energy once in a while, its a waste of a skill slot)
Energizing chorus is a questionable addition if you don't have any other shouters, it seems to be there for the same reason as "go for the eyes" (energy).
Anthem of flame is a must if you want your allies to cause fire damage and tank it out too, and it also costs only 1 net energy in RA and TA. You should take out the nonfire/nonuseful skills and add in skills that catch people on fire (such as blazing finale). I always like to have either, signet of synergy or ballad of restoration worked into any of my builds (or both of these skills), as they are better heals than most monk spells. This build could use signet of synergy, because this build has no self heals and that the best defence is always a heal
EDIT: i just read that you were going to put "max fire magic, max leadership, and the rest in motivation. :P you've never made a paragon before b/c you dont have any motivational skills in your build! lol k w/e good idea of adding searing flames, don't want to bash an ele too bad.
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by crime.mob
the addition of searing flames and other elementalist atts to the TOF build (which really did needed help at first... paragons are by no means supposed to axe out their opponents... atleast with a support build with small self healing) was a beautiful idea. Glowing signet is a must for a fire build, and I was suprised that the old TOF build didn't have it.
however the rest of the build could be better... go for the eyes is a HORRIBLE addition (unless you use a spear, otherwise i dont think you tested this build yourself) because this build has NO attack skills, and you will barely have enough adrenaline to chant it (even though it gives you free energy once in a while, its a waste of a skill slot)
Energizing chorus is a questionable addition if you don't have any other shouters, it seems to be there for the same reason as "go for the eyes" (energy).
Anthem of flame is a must if you want your allies to cause fire damage and tank it out too, and it also costs only 1 net energy in RA and TA. You should take out the nonfire/nonuseful skills and add in skills that catch people on fire (such as blazing finale). I always like to have either, signet of synergy or ballad of restoration worked into any of my builds (or both of these skills), as they are better heals than most monk spells. This build could use signet of synergy, because this build has no self heals and that the best defence is always a heal
EDIT: i just read that you were going to put "max fire magic, max leadership, and the rest in motivation. :P you've never made a paragon before b/c you dont have any motivational skills in your build! lol k w/e good idea of adding searing flames, don't want to bash an ele too bad. actually, I have built MANY paragon builds before. You have not read through the reason for the skills. YES, there are no attack skills, they would merely be a waste of energy or a pointless use of adrenaline when the point of the build is to simultenously do massive damage with Searing Flames. In fact, the damage done by any of the spear chuckers I've seen in the directory pales in comparison to what this build dishes out.
Energizing Chorus is a motivation skill. The rest is put in motivation to help boost this skill. The higher your motivation the more energy it takes off your ToF cast. If done correctly, Energizing Chorus gives you 7 energy and then takes 6-7 off your ToF cast.
Anthem of Flame would be pointless as Searing Flames makes everything in the entire area on fire and is longer burning time. Anthem only makes the target attacked burn. Even blazing finale only makes adjacent targets burn. SF makes all area enemies near target burn.
The reason those skills are not used is because they take energy rather than provide it which is necessary to be able to cast Searing Flames as much as possible (which is more effective than both those skills put together in terms of creating burning to go with the ToF buff).
BTW, GFTE still works on your spear attack as you don't need to use a skill for it to work and it still works on the rest of the party, too.
So, what you've done is taken out to skills that give you 7 free energy, makes FoT cost 6-7 less to cast, and gives a moderate chance for the entire party to critical strike. Then you've replaced these with skills with skills that cost way too much energy for the character to continue to support constant SF casts and that provide no extra benefit beyond the skills already in place.
GG. Read the entire build, FTW.
however the rest of the build could be better... go for the eyes is a HORRIBLE addition (unless you use a spear, otherwise i dont think you tested this build yourself) because this build has NO attack skills, and you will barely have enough adrenaline to chant it (even though it gives you free energy once in a while, its a waste of a skill slot)
Energizing chorus is a questionable addition if you don't have any other shouters, it seems to be there for the same reason as "go for the eyes" (energy).
Anthem of flame is a must if you want your allies to cause fire damage and tank it out too, and it also costs only 1 net energy in RA and TA. You should take out the nonfire/nonuseful skills and add in skills that catch people on fire (such as blazing finale). I always like to have either, signet of synergy or ballad of restoration worked into any of my builds (or both of these skills), as they are better heals than most monk spells. This build could use signet of synergy, because this build has no self heals and that the best defence is always a heal
EDIT: i just read that you were going to put "max fire magic, max leadership, and the rest in motivation. :P you've never made a paragon before b/c you dont have any motivational skills in your build! lol k w/e good idea of adding searing flames, don't want to bash an ele too bad. actually, I have built MANY paragon builds before. You have not read through the reason for the skills. YES, there are no attack skills, they would merely be a waste of energy or a pointless use of adrenaline when the point of the build is to simultenously do massive damage with Searing Flames. In fact, the damage done by any of the spear chuckers I've seen in the directory pales in comparison to what this build dishes out.
Energizing Chorus is a motivation skill. The rest is put in motivation to help boost this skill. The higher your motivation the more energy it takes off your ToF cast. If done correctly, Energizing Chorus gives you 7 energy and then takes 6-7 off your ToF cast.
Anthem of Flame would be pointless as Searing Flames makes everything in the entire area on fire and is longer burning time. Anthem only makes the target attacked burn. Even blazing finale only makes adjacent targets burn. SF makes all area enemies near target burn.
The reason those skills are not used is because they take energy rather than provide it which is necessary to be able to cast Searing Flames as much as possible (which is more effective than both those skills put together in terms of creating burning to go with the ToF buff).
BTW, GFTE still works on your spear attack as you don't need to use a skill for it to work and it still works on the rest of the party, too.
So, what you've done is taken out to skills that give you 7 free energy, makes FoT cost 6-7 less to cast, and gives a moderate chance for the entire party to critical strike. Then you've replaced these with skills with skills that cost way too much energy for the character to continue to support constant SF casts and that provide no extra benefit beyond the skills already in place.
GG. Read the entire build, FTW.
Zinger314
Uh. 30 Energy Max, and 2 Energy Regeneration? No amount of Energy management in the woold could allow you to spam a 15 Energy spell with those conditions.
Plus, your Searing Flames will only burn for 4 seconds (with the test patch nerf), making it trivial. Just use the ToF; it's more practical.
Plus, your Searing Flames will only burn for 4 seconds (with the test patch nerf), making it trivial. Just use the ToF; it's more practical.
Thom Bangalter
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You're elite is searing flames. This makes me want to type 
Stick to the spears, imo.
Stick to the spears, imo.
Govtmorgue
Mad, I run a SF/ToF Hybrid all the time with my Para, but unfortunately, these guys here don't understand the concept, or how to work it. All you'll get from 98% of the folks here at guildwars is a "You suck" in general because OMG you picked a elite from a non-paragon build line. The unfortunate thing is, most of the time they haven't even actually fully tested it...most likely they die on the first mob and say "Oh no's that's such a newb skill set...because I died once." While your build isn't for the meta game experience, it's damned good for a casual player, or even a player that wants to add a damager/damager reduction buffer to the team...and this is talking about the "nerf" to SF. I'll say one thing. Not once, EVER, have I run my SF paragon with a team and gotten a complaint...and this was before you're tweaking and even my tweaking of the original build.
crime.mob
ya i took your build out a few more rounds this time, and found that you really do need the extra energy from the adrenal skills... or ANY skills for that matter b/c this REALLY drains the paragons pathetic 30 base energy and you're screwed if you miss your SF and have no energy skills after you're drained out. any energy to fund SF is really nice, and adrenal is one way to go.
Though in the end i think the build is risky b/c a couple of fails of glowing signet or a miss of SF can land you energy-less really fast; Though your idea isn't bad, and the build is workable.
I'll stay on your train of thought and use mind burn instead of SF, b/c of its low energy costs, and use chants such as blazing finale to get the "everyone's on fire" effect. (though mind burn would probably only work on non-casters because one requirement for people to catch on fire is for you to have more energy than them)
Though in the end i think the build is risky b/c a couple of fails of glowing signet or a miss of SF can land you energy-less really fast; Though your idea isn't bad, and the build is workable.
I'll stay on your train of thought and use mind burn instead of SF, b/c of its low energy costs, and use chants such as blazing finale to get the "everyone's on fire" effect. (though mind burn would probably only work on non-casters because one requirement for people to catch on fire is for you to have more energy than them)
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Plus, your Searing Flames will only burn for 4 seconds (with the test patch nerf), making it trivial. Just use the ToF; it's more practical.
If you believe that paragons do not have the energy management to cast SF over and over, then you are seriously underestimating what they can do. Let's go over the math shall we? I use an attument rune which give me +2 energy and arguably you could also put some Insignias with bonuses to energy too but they are not needed I assure you.
Here is the cast sequence start with 32 energy and only +2 energy regen (per 3 seconds) or +1 every 1.5 seconds
All casting costs are figured with the fire attunement bonus for fire skills and Leadership bonus for an 8 person party for shout/chants. The above regeneration is automatically calculated into the energy total based on casting times and how many seconds have past.
Cast Fire attunement -10 energy (total = 23) remember +1 regen has occurred
Cast Searing Flames -10 (total = 14) +1 regen
Cast Glowing Gaze -3 +7 (total = 18)
Cast They're on Fire -3 (total = 15) instant cast
wait 1 second for SF to recharge (total = 16) +1 regen
Cast Searing Flames -10 (total = 6)
Cast Glowing Signet +14 (total = 21) +1 regen
approximately six seconds have passed
wait 2 seconds for SF to recharge (total = 22) +1 regen
Cast Searing Flames -10 (total = 13) +1 regen
Cast Glowing Gaze -3 +7 (total = 14)
[I]wait 1 second for SF to recharge (total = 15) +1 regen
--->>>Also by this time GFTE and Energizing Chorus have charged as you are attacking during this time as your skills are recharging. YES, I TESTED THIS MULTIPLE TIMES AND FOUND IT TO BE CONSISTENT.
Cast Go For The Eyes +7 (total = 22) save energizing chorus for when ToF has recharged
Cast Searing Flames -10 (total = 13) +1 regen
approximately twelve seconds have passed
Cast Glowing Gaze -3 +7 (total = 17)
Cast Energizing Chorus +7 (total = 25) +1 regen (this is early enough to give a boost of needed energy and late enough to effect your next TOF cast)
need I go on?
The energy works, if you think about your cast order rather than mash buttons. The bottom line is this: With full leadership, you NEVER run out of energy with paragon builds that have a balance of energy skills and full party adrenaline based shouts... NEVER.
BTW, I see that now even without the runes in and max leadership, ToF now does 44% damage reduction which is higher than the wiki description but not listed in the update changes... wierd. That means with the rune, we are coming really close to 50% damage redux.
Mad5cout
DISCLAIMER: Quickening Zephyr really screws this guy over. The SF casts are reduced and it is hard to keep the burning up as desired.
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Govtmorgue
Mad, I run a SF/ToF Hybrid all the time with my Para, but unfortunately, these guys here don't understand the concept, or how to work it. All you'll get from 98% of the folks here at guildwars is a "You suck" in general because OMG you picked a elite from a non-paragon build line. The unfortunate thing is, most of the time they haven't even actually fully tested it...most likely they die on the first mob and say "Oh no's that's such a newb skill set...because I died once." While your build isn't for the meta game experience, it's damned good for a casual player, or even a player that wants to add a damager/damager reduction buffer to the team...and this is talking about the "nerf" to SF. I'll say one thing. Not once, EVER, have I run my SF paragon with a team and gotten a complaint...and this was before you're tweaking and even my tweaking of the original build.
No, I understand the concept, It's just a bad build.
Arrows[PURE]
I think this build is really gd, the only thing I can see is that quite alot of enemies have enchant removal. I've never actually tried this but without fire attunement would it still work???
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrows[PURE]
I think this build is really gd, the only thing I can see is that quite alot of enemies have enchant removal. I've never actually tried this but without fire attunement would it still work???
I haven;t had much trouble with enchant removals. But the buidl would still work, you just wouldn;t be able to cast SF quite as fast. This same problem would occur in a Ele primary though. Both builds rely on the attunement to spam continuously. However, a real SF would have to wait for their energy to recharge while the paragon would simply hurl spears and quickly charge up the adrenaline skills and then regain energy instantly. I'll give you a hint which is faster...
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
No, I understand the concept, It's just a bad build.
Have you actually tried it?
Tell me how an average area damage of 273 and extra spike damage of 53 on your target per every 10 seconds is bad? Tell me how stacking a 44% damage reduction for your entire party on top of that is bad?
I'm having a real hard time figuring out how that is bad...
Tell me how an average area damage of 273 and extra spike damage of 53 on your target per every 10 seconds is bad? Tell me how stacking a 44% damage reduction for your entire party on top of that is bad?
I'm having a real hard time figuring out how that is bad...
Govtmorgue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad5cout
a Superior Spear Mastery Rune and helm would help in terms of gaining adrenaline faster.
Have you actually tried it?
Tell me how an average area damage of 273 and extra spike damage of 53 on your target per every 10 seconds is bad? Tell me how stacking a 44% damage reduction for your entire party on top of that is bad?
I'm having a real hard time figuring out how that is bad... I would like to state that there is no need for the Spear Mastery Runes or Helm, as that doesn't effect your adrenalin gain (or at least no where have I found that to be true, it's based on strikes that build up and aren't gained due to extra attributes...i.e. you could use a bow and build the same amount of adrenalin as if you were using a spear with equal attribute points), however a Furious spear or ranged weapon would indeed help in the adrenalin gain. The reason I say this is because it cuts down on your health loss from having a Major and Superior rune, and this way you can put a Superior rune in leadership and wear the Leadership head piece, allowing for a 53% damage reduction, or you could lower it to 14 and add more points into Command, allowing for a larger chance to critical from GFTE!, splitting the points to this (which would make any casting of Never Give Up free):
12 Fire Magic
6 Command (GFTE! is now at 48% Chance to crit)
6 Motivation (Energizing Chorus reduces next Shout by 5 points, used before NGU allows free shout + massive energy spike)
14 Leadership (Superior Rune & Headpiece +1) (47% Damage Reduction from ToF and a net gain of 14 from Glowing Signet)
Using those attribute points you make the maximum gain from energy, and very little loss due to shouting ToF (as all your shouts have now become free basically)
Also, with Max Leadership and a Major Leadership Rune (14 Leadership), you have continually stated that it's a 44% damage reduction, however it's actually 47%. If you were at 12 Leadership that would be 44%. And at the max of 16 Leadership it's a 53% damage reduction. You like to state numbers, so I'm giving you a hand and giving exacts.
Have you actually tried it?
Tell me how an average area damage of 273 and extra spike damage of 53 on your target per every 10 seconds is bad? Tell me how stacking a 44% damage reduction for your entire party on top of that is bad?
I'm having a real hard time figuring out how that is bad... I would like to state that there is no need for the Spear Mastery Runes or Helm, as that doesn't effect your adrenalin gain (or at least no where have I found that to be true, it's based on strikes that build up and aren't gained due to extra attributes...i.e. you could use a bow and build the same amount of adrenalin as if you were using a spear with equal attribute points), however a Furious spear or ranged weapon would indeed help in the adrenalin gain. The reason I say this is because it cuts down on your health loss from having a Major and Superior rune, and this way you can put a Superior rune in leadership and wear the Leadership head piece, allowing for a 53% damage reduction, or you could lower it to 14 and add more points into Command, allowing for a larger chance to critical from GFTE!, splitting the points to this (which would make any casting of Never Give Up free):
12 Fire Magic
6 Command (GFTE! is now at 48% Chance to crit)
6 Motivation (Energizing Chorus reduces next Shout by 5 points, used before NGU allows free shout + massive energy spike)
14 Leadership (Superior Rune & Headpiece +1) (47% Damage Reduction from ToF and a net gain of 14 from Glowing Signet)
Using those attribute points you make the maximum gain from energy, and very little loss due to shouting ToF (as all your shouts have now become free basically)
Also, with Max Leadership and a Major Leadership Rune (14 Leadership), you have continually stated that it's a 44% damage reduction, however it's actually 47%. If you were at 12 Leadership that would be 44%. And at the max of 16 Leadership it's a 53% damage reduction. You like to state numbers, so I'm giving you a hand and giving exacts.
ss1986v2
ok, i tooled around with this for about 30 minutes tonight. the thing is i couldnt get it to work with your set up. too little base energy to keep the chain up fast enough to match a SF ele. i tweaked a few things and it ran much smoother. with full radiant armor, plus a wand/offhand combination, you can get your total energy over 50. then the build worked fine. the biggest issue is if any part of the chain is disrupted (interrupted, attunement stripped, missing a GG or a G sig, energy denial) you kinda become dead in the water for a bit while you regen enough energy to start up again. two things though:
1)why run this over a ToF paragon and a SF elementalist? it works well enough on its own, but a ToF paragon + a SF elementalist in the party will do the same thing, but with much higher dmg, longer burning, and more utility (with no fire magic, the ToF paragon can bring more skills, plus the SF ele gets to bring liquid flame, fireball, MoR, ect...).
2) dont think this will work after the skill update. the lack of burning duration plus the slower recharge of GG will make it much harder to maintain dmg and the dmg reduction of ToF while keeping energy up. with only a 4 second burning, you would probably be better off just running the a ToF build, which gives similar burning durations with a bit more utility.
1)why run this over a ToF paragon and a SF elementalist? it works well enough on its own, but a ToF paragon + a SF elementalist in the party will do the same thing, but with much higher dmg, longer burning, and more utility (with no fire magic, the ToF paragon can bring more skills, plus the SF ele gets to bring liquid flame, fireball, MoR, ect...).
2) dont think this will work after the skill update. the lack of burning duration plus the slower recharge of GG will make it much harder to maintain dmg and the dmg reduction of ToF while keeping energy up. with only a 4 second burning, you would probably be better off just running the a ToF build, which gives similar burning durations with a bit more utility.
Mad5cout
to answer the last few posts. I think I brought up a few posts ago when I said the 44% I said that it was maxed with no runes and mentioned that with the rune it would be close to 50%. I don't personally have a superior leadership rune because me main build is a Envy/GFTE spammer.
Govt., The point distribution you gave seems pretty cool and might work better but read the below explanation.
To address issues in both your posts, The reason I put some into spear mastery is that you have to actually be hitting targets when in order to build adrenaline. If your spear mastery is at 0, you miss a lot, especially in the torment. This can be especially detrimental to your energy gain as you don;t gain adrenaline as fast (this is how spear mastery affects adrenal gain). ss1986, If you did not have anything in spear mastery or you forgot to continue to cycle through targets and attack with your spear as well as casting, then you would be dead in the water.
In the end, adrenal gain is more important than the energy you get from the Energizing chorus cast. That is an adrenal skill that simply has synergistic qualities to the rest of the build.
After seeing Govt's attribute distribution. I think I would end up going taking some from motivation and putting it into spear. but using his superior rune and headpiece in leadership idea.
BTW, look at the cast sequence I posted if you are having a hard time with energy. I have played this on my paragon and his rune set up is all wrong and I still have enough energy to keep casting. He only has a minor leadership rune, attunement, and a superior in command and NO radiant insignias and he can spam it with no problems.
Lastly, to talk about why not just bring a ToF and SF ele. As you mentioned SF burning time is going down. As with all paragon builds, you have to modify what you are using based on your party. This is a build that I would want to run with at least one more SF in the party (paragon or ele), so that you could piggy back on each other. Although, even with the shorter burn time and the new recharge for GG, it is not necessary. I have tested this with the skill modifications already and it still works.
Govt., The point distribution you gave seems pretty cool and might work better but read the below explanation.
To address issues in both your posts, The reason I put some into spear mastery is that you have to actually be hitting targets when in order to build adrenaline. If your spear mastery is at 0, you miss a lot, especially in the torment. This can be especially detrimental to your energy gain as you don;t gain adrenaline as fast (this is how spear mastery affects adrenal gain). ss1986, If you did not have anything in spear mastery or you forgot to continue to cycle through targets and attack with your spear as well as casting, then you would be dead in the water.
In the end, adrenal gain is more important than the energy you get from the Energizing chorus cast. That is an adrenal skill that simply has synergistic qualities to the rest of the build.
After seeing Govt's attribute distribution. I think I would end up going taking some from motivation and putting it into spear. but using his superior rune and headpiece in leadership idea.
BTW, look at the cast sequence I posted if you are having a hard time with energy. I have played this on my paragon and his rune set up is all wrong and I still have enough energy to keep casting. He only has a minor leadership rune, attunement, and a superior in command and NO radiant insignias and he can spam it with no problems.
Lastly, to talk about why not just bring a ToF and SF ele. As you mentioned SF burning time is going down. As with all paragon builds, you have to modify what you are using based on your party. This is a build that I would want to run with at least one more SF in the party (paragon or ele), so that you could piggy back on each other. Although, even with the shorter burn time and the new recharge for GG, it is not necessary. I have tested this with the skill modifications already and it still works.
ss1986v2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad5cout
To address issues in both your posts, The reason I put some into spear mastery is that you have to actually be hitting targets when in order to build adrenaline. If your spear mastery is at 0, you miss a lot, especially in the torment. This can be especially detrimental to your energy gain as you don;t gain adrenaline as fast (this is how spear mastery affects adrenal gain). ss1986, If you did not have anything in spear mastery or you forgot to continue to cycle through targets and attack with your spear as well as casting, then you would be dead in the water.
your spear mastery level affects neither your hit/miss rate or the amount of adrenaline gained per strike.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Adrenaline
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Spear_Mastery
thought id just correct that bit of misinformation.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Adrenaline
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Spear_Mastery
thought id just correct that bit of misinformation.
JoeKnowMo
This build has been posted twice before about 2 months ago:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10076524
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075533
It worked fine then and it works fine now. If the new patch reduces SF burn duration that may change.
Regarding equipment: A fire offhand is essential. You won't be getting the full benefit from a shield anyway.
A +5e Furious Spear of enchanting is ideal as your attack weapon. The faster attack rate compared to a wand helps build adrenaline up faster for shouts. The occasional bonus adrenaline from the furious mod helps too.
This way you start out at 47e (w/o radiant insignias) instead of 30e.
Switch out Never Give Up for Anthem of Flame.
To the sceptics: Try running this build before you dismiss it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10076524
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075533
It worked fine then and it works fine now. If the new patch reduces SF burn duration that may change.
Regarding equipment: A fire offhand is essential. You won't be getting the full benefit from a shield anyway.
A +5e Furious Spear of enchanting is ideal as your attack weapon. The faster attack rate compared to a wand helps build adrenaline up faster for shouts. The occasional bonus adrenaline from the furious mod helps too.
This way you start out at 47e (w/o radiant insignias) instead of 30e.
Switch out Never Give Up for Anthem of Flame.
To the sceptics: Try running this build before you dismiss it.
clawofcrimson
its not so bad when you want to concentrate you're burning on enemies...
i wouldnt mind having a SF para in pve....but then again..what doesnt work in pve?
i have been running my warrior with heroes with something like this:
general: tof tank
zhed: SF nuker with mark of rodgort.(hope the buff sticks)
my warrior: conjure flame, hundred blades, inferno
so many flames...
i wouldnt mind having a SF para in pve....but then again..what doesnt work in pve?
i have been running my warrior with heroes with something like this:
general: tof tank
zhed: SF nuker with mark of rodgort.(hope the buff sticks)
my warrior: conjure flame, hundred blades, inferno
so many flames...
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1986v2
your spear mastery level affects neither your hit/miss rate or the amount of adrenaline gained per strike.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Adrenaline
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Spear_Mastery
thought id just correct that bit of misinformation. Well, you learn something new everyday!! Thanks for the info.
In this case, go with Govt's attribute numbers and I would also switch to a bow with a faster RoF. Good Ideas. You got me rethinking my GFTE/Envy Paragon set up, too.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Adrenaline
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Spear_Mastery
thought id just correct that bit of misinformation. Well, you learn something new everyday!! Thanks for the info.
In this case, go with Govt's attribute numbers and I would also switch to a bow with a faster RoF. Good Ideas. You got me rethinking my GFTE/Envy Paragon set up, too.
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo
This build has been posted twice before about 2 months ago:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10076524
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075533
It worked fine then and it works fine now. If the new patch reduces SF burn duration that may change.
Regarding equipment: A fire offhand is essential. You won't be getting the full benefit from a shield anyway.
A +5e Furious Spear of enchanting is ideal as your attack weapon. The faster attack rate compared to a wand helps build adrenaline up faster for shouts. The occasional bonus adrenaline from the furious mod helps too.
This way you start out at 47e (w/o radiant insignias) instead of 30e.
Switch out Never Give Up for Anthem of Flame.
To the sceptics: Try running this build before you dismiss it. Thanks for the links. I had not seen them. In any case, those threads were not linked in the builds directory and this thread was to serve as a discussion for the build I posted there.
Also, the second build doesn't look functional. I noticed the one I have posted is very close to the one you had up. I still think that Anthem of Flame is pretty useless when you got SF right there. To each their own but I hope my thought process and explainations were helpful to you.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10076524
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075533
It worked fine then and it works fine now. If the new patch reduces SF burn duration that may change.
Regarding equipment: A fire offhand is essential. You won't be getting the full benefit from a shield anyway.
A +5e Furious Spear of enchanting is ideal as your attack weapon. The faster attack rate compared to a wand helps build adrenaline up faster for shouts. The occasional bonus adrenaline from the furious mod helps too.
This way you start out at 47e (w/o radiant insignias) instead of 30e.
Switch out Never Give Up for Anthem of Flame.
To the sceptics: Try running this build before you dismiss it. Thanks for the links. I had not seen them. In any case, those threads were not linked in the builds directory and this thread was to serve as a discussion for the build I posted there.
Also, the second build doesn't look functional. I noticed the one I have posted is very close to the one you had up. I still think that Anthem of Flame is pretty useless when you got SF right there. To each their own but I hope my thought process and explainations were helpful to you.
carbajac
There was a thread for a build in another forum which tried to cross professions in an extreme similar to this one, one of the mods said something to the effect that PUGs and RA has developed a sense of trying to do everything yourself in players. This seems like one of those to me. Sure, your build can probably pump out some decent damage, but it just might be more effective to take a different approach.
The paragons have so many ways to start someone aflame, if you can keep your enemies on fire, your sf ele will have a field day and output a lot more damage than your build can no matter what your numbers.
Spend your time putting up Blazing Finale, anthem of flame, and keeping "They're on Fire" on your team, and if this is for PvE, put Burning Refrain on your warrior and have him hack away at Shiro. This is a team game not "My SF Paragon is better than your SF Ele, don't believe me, let's 1v1."
Also, where's your rez? Please don't run this in RA...please.
The paragons have so many ways to start someone aflame, if you can keep your enemies on fire, your sf ele will have a field day and output a lot more damage than your build can no matter what your numbers.
Spend your time putting up Blazing Finale, anthem of flame, and keeping "They're on Fire" on your team, and if this is for PvE, put Burning Refrain on your warrior and have him hack away at Shiro. This is a team game not "My SF Paragon is better than your SF Ele, don't believe me, let's 1v1."
Also, where's your rez? Please don't run this in RA...please.
Skylancer
I use:
Attributes:
Leadership 16 (12+3+1)
Fire Magic 10
Spearmastery 8
Skills:
[card]Wild Throw[/card][card]Anthem of Flame[/card][card]"They're on Fire!"[/card][card]Fireball[/card][card]Mark of Rodgort[/card][card]Leader's Comfort[/card][card]Glowing Signet[/card][card]Signet of Return[/card]
Cast Mark of Rodgort, (fireball for mobs, can be swapped with [skill=text]Liquid Flame[/skill]), ToF, Glowing Signet etc. etc.
To keep them burning constantly at a low energy cost simply use a spear with a fiery spearhead, while they have Mark of Rodgort on them.
Simple & effective, works for me.
Skylancer
Attributes:
Leadership 16 (12+3+1)
Fire Magic 10
Spearmastery 8
Skills:
[card]Wild Throw[/card][card]Anthem of Flame[/card][card]"They're on Fire!"[/card][card]Fireball[/card][card]Mark of Rodgort[/card][card]Leader's Comfort[/card][card]Glowing Signet[/card][card]Signet of Return[/card]
Cast Mark of Rodgort, (fireball for mobs, can be swapped with [skill=text]Liquid Flame[/skill]), ToF, Glowing Signet etc. etc.
To keep them burning constantly at a low energy cost simply use a spear with a fiery spearhead, while they have Mark of Rodgort on them.
Simple & effective, works for me.
Skylancer
Milan-V
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylancer
I use:
Attributes:
Leadership 16 (12+3+1)
Fire Magic 10
Spearmastery 8
Skills:
[card]Wild Throw[/card][card]Anthem of Flame[/card][card]"They're on Fire!"[/card][card]Fireball[/card][card]Mark of Rodgort[/card][card]Leader's Comfort[/card][card]Glowing Signet[/card][card]Signet of Return[/card]
Cast Mark of Rodgort, (fireball for mobs, can be swapped with [skill=text]Liquid Flame[/skill]), ToF, Glowing Signet etc. etc.
To keep them burning constantly at a low energy cost simply use a spear with a fiery spearhead, while they have Mark of Rodgort on them.
Simple & effective, works for me.
Skylancer Now that works better I guess.
Attributes:
Leadership 16 (12+3+1)
Fire Magic 10
Spearmastery 8
Skills:
[card]Wild Throw[/card][card]Anthem of Flame[/card][card]"They're on Fire!"[/card][card]Fireball[/card][card]Mark of Rodgort[/card][card]Leader's Comfort[/card][card]Glowing Signet[/card][card]Signet of Return[/card]
Cast Mark of Rodgort, (fireball for mobs, can be swapped with [skill=text]Liquid Flame[/skill]), ToF, Glowing Signet etc. etc.
To keep them burning constantly at a low energy cost simply use a spear with a fiery spearhead, while they have Mark of Rodgort on them.
Simple & effective, works for me.
Skylancer Now that works better I guess.
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by carbajac
The paragons have so many ways to start someone aflame, if you can keep your enemies on fire, your sf ele will have a field day and output a lot more damage than your build can no matter what your numbers.
Spend your time putting up Blazing Finale, anthem of flame, and keeping "They're on Fire" on your team, and if this is for PvE, put Burning Refrain on your warrior and have him hack away at Shiro. This is a team game not "My SF Paragon is better than your SF Ele, don't believe me, let's 1v1."
Also, where's your rez? Please don't run this in RA...please.
Values are with the maxed attribute of the skill with no runes:
Blazing Finale 3 sec, adjacent foes to target
Anthem of Flame 3 sec, only the foe attacked by allies
Mark of Rodgort 3 seconds and the enemies must be struck with fire damage first.
Mind Burn 6 seconds, WON'T WORK. Y? EXHAUSTION. You can't spam it.
SEARING FLAMES 6 seconds, NO trigger, No exhaustion, and you DO have enough energy.
How hard is that to understand. Why do all of you insist on switching out the skill for things that don't work as well? Why would I use Blazing Finale and Anthem of Flame for LESS burning, SLOWER recast time, and literally NO damage? Why use mark of rodgort when you have to cast an area fire damage skill to set it off? Mark of Rodgort cost just as much as SF does and doesn't set people on fire until you spend even more energy to cast a fire damage spell to set them on fire AND it doesn't burn them as long.
I am done explaining to people why do this instead of a pure paragon ToF build or using some other crappy ele skill to create burning for ToF. If you are dumb enough to go another route when this one does it better hands down, be my guest.
Am I really trying to do it all in one build? All this build does is create the most burning it can (in the most efficient way possible) and put ToF up... That's it. The damage from SF is a great bonus and my christmas gift to all of you.
typing big so you will actually see it this time>>> THE BUILD I POSTED HAS A SPOT FOR A RES SPELL. IT JUST DOESN'T HAVE A GRAPHIC. READ THE BUILD AND EXPLANATION BEFORE YOU COMMENT.
It would also be helpful for some of you to read the descriptions of the spells you are recommending before you assume their superiority...
Skylancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad5cout
So the 15e you lose with Mark of Rodgort will only be once every 27 sec.
While the 15e you lose with SF will be once every 6 sec.
Same effect but costs less energy. (and you can use another elite skill)
clawofcrimson
skylance,
SF>MOR... the ability to concentrate the burn is the valuable part...
besides...your build does not take advantage of any elite...
SF>MOR... the ability to concentrate the burn is the valuable part...
besides...your build does not take advantage of any elite...
Mad5cout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylancer
Not being a smartass here, but practically Mark of Rodgort causes burning for 27 sec (10 Fire mag.) IF you have a fiery spearhead on your spear, as stated above in my build. SF requires you to cast it again after the 6 seconds 'on fire' have worn of, draining another 15e.
So the 15e you lose with Mark of Rodgort will only be once every 27 sec.
While the 15e you lose with SF will be once every 6 sec.
Same effect but costs less energy. (and you can use another elite skill) Okay, so I was unaware that MOR would start someone burning again when attacked more than once with fire damage. However, it matters not. Here is the weakness of what you propose. Using a firey spearhead would only set the one enemy you attack on fire. That defeats the purpose of the build. ToF is only effective if there are a lot of enemies on fire so that it provides the damage reduction for more than just one enemy. SF, is still a more energy efficient way to set multiple targets on fire than MOR or any other spell/skill for as long as possible.
BTW, the build accomidates to spam SF, that's the whole point. The energy is not a problem. So, again, why would you use MOR when you can do more burning and more damage and more damage reduction with SF?
So the 15e you lose with Mark of Rodgort will only be once every 27 sec.
While the 15e you lose with SF will be once every 6 sec.
Same effect but costs less energy. (and you can use another elite skill) Okay, so I was unaware that MOR would start someone burning again when attacked more than once with fire damage. However, it matters not. Here is the weakness of what you propose. Using a firey spearhead would only set the one enemy you attack on fire. That defeats the purpose of the build. ToF is only effective if there are a lot of enemies on fire so that it provides the damage reduction for more than just one enemy. SF, is still a more energy efficient way to set multiple targets on fire than MOR or any other spell/skill for as long as possible.
BTW, the build accomidates to spam SF, that's the whole point. The energy is not a problem. So, again, why would you use MOR when you can do more burning and more damage and more damage reduction with SF?
Skylancer
Yeah this build doesn't have an elite, but it works great without one so..
And indeed MOR only inflicts burning on 1 enemy when you hit them. I just target one enemy, hit once, target other, hit etc. etc. That way you can keep alot of foes burning even if they scatter.
But indeed energy is not the problem, only sharing thoughts ^_^
And indeed MOR only inflicts burning on 1 enemy when you hit them. I just target one enemy, hit once, target other, hit etc. etc. That way you can keep alot of foes burning even if they scatter.
But indeed energy is not the problem, only sharing thoughts ^_^
clawofcrimson
i love MOR when im in pve with my heroes... works great when you can organize a team of four...
but in this build...(which already has enough micro management) I would rather take an aoe burn skill rather that ...target..switch...target ...switch...
and also ive noticed... not to repeatedly spam sf... you will quickly run out of energy... and the point is to keep burning going... so every few seconds will suffice...
but in this build...(which already has enough micro management) I would rather take an aoe burn skill rather that ...target..switch...target ...switch...
and also ive noticed... not to repeatedly spam sf... you will quickly run out of energy... and the point is to keep burning going... so every few seconds will suffice...
Skylancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawofcrimson
and also ive noticed... not to repeatedly spam sf... you will quickly run out of energy... and the point is to keep burning going... so every few seconds will suffice...
Hooray for MOR ^_^
I get your point.
I get your point.
Sutch
I posted a build similar to this in another forum. It's kinda funny seeing as there were a lot of critics to ToF/SF builds there as well. Some people need to have a more open mind. You gotta understand, the main point here is to have a constant 53% party wide damage reduction. The extra damage from Searing Flames is just icing on the cake. Here's what I came up with and I seem to manage energy pretty well.
Leadership 16
Fire Magic 12
Command 4
Signet of Return
"They're on Fire"
Searing Flames
Glowing Signet
Fire Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Anthem of Flame
"Go for the Eyes"
Glyph of Lesser Energy is really important to have. You get 2 free Searing flames initially. Then you use both AoF, GftE, and Glowing Signet to maintain energy while waiting for Glyph of Lesser Energy to recharge. With this, I can spam Searing Flames pretty consistently.
Leadership 16
Fire Magic 12
Command 4
Signet of Return
"They're on Fire"
Searing Flames
Glowing Signet
Fire Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Anthem of Flame
"Go for the Eyes"
Glyph of Lesser Energy is really important to have. You get 2 free Searing flames initially. Then you use both AoF, GftE, and Glowing Signet to maintain energy while waiting for Glyph of Lesser Energy to recharge. With this, I can spam Searing Flames pretty consistently.
Thom Bangalter
Ok, I know this is going to sound crazy....
why don't you just bring a hero or 2 with searing flames, because the skill destroys mobs, instead of trying to justify running it on a character with 25 energy and 2 pips of regen? look, now you've freed up an elite spot on the paragon bar too.
why don't you just bring a hero or 2 with searing flames, because the skill destroys mobs, instead of trying to justify running it on a character with 25 energy and 2 pips of regen? look, now you've freed up an elite spot on the paragon bar too.
Sutch
I do run this build occasionally with 2 Searing Flame Heroes for even more distributed burning and tons more damage. But I don't have 30 energy, I have around 53 using attunement runes and radiant insignias. If you can combine damage reduction and good amounts of damage in one character, why not do it?
I don't see what's the problem. Mad5cout explained it pretty well already. I play in a lot of PUG's. Am I to demand there be SF Ele in every group I play with?
I don't see what's the problem. Mad5cout explained it pretty well already. I play in a lot of PUG's. Am I to demand there be SF Ele in every group I play with?
Thom Bangalter
you mean there's not a sf ele in every group you play in?
When it gets to the point that you're using attunement runes, radiant insignia, and a caster offhand, it's time you roll an ele.
When it gets to the point that you're using attunement runes, radiant insignia, and a caster offhand, it's time you roll an ele.
Govtmorgue
Thom, you obviously have a hard time of grasping the point that a ele can not provide the damage reduction abilities of a Paragon with max leadership.
FoxBat
Never give up isn't the greatest with.... 0 command.
Replace that with glyph of lesser E, obviously. Much better energy returns while you're at it.
P.S. 40/40 gear is key to SF Eles, that ups their damage output by 60%ish. And no, you don't have time to chuck a spear when the 1 second SF recharge triggers half the time, thanks to aftercast.
Necro primaries with soul reaping are a good choice in most of PvE if you're that worried about energy. Nonetheless, SF probably is the most reliable (pre-nerf) to make sure everything is burning to trigger ToF, if you are lacking SF eles for whatever reason, even if it's not the best way to pump out damage.
Replace that with glyph of lesser E, obviously. Much better energy returns while you're at it.
P.S. 40/40 gear is key to SF Eles, that ups their damage output by 60%ish. And no, you don't have time to chuck a spear when the 1 second SF recharge triggers half the time, thanks to aftercast.
Necro primaries with soul reaping are a good choice in most of PvE if you're that worried about energy. Nonetheless, SF probably is the most reliable (pre-nerf) to make sure everything is burning to trigger ToF, if you are lacking SF eles for whatever reason, even if it's not the best way to pump out damage.
sumasage
Can you clarify the attribute stat? I am assuming you are using 3 superior runes . That doesnt put you at that much health.
Currently raising a Paragon, i will try this build when i get all the required skills
Currently raising a Paragon, i will try this build when i get all the required skills
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Govtmorgue
Thom, you obviously have a hard time of grasping the point that a ele can not provide the damage reduction abilities of a Paragon with max leadership.
That's why you bring a they're on fire paragon on your team if that's what you're going for, instead of running a shitty bar.
Govtmorgue
We're talking PvE (I think at least), where damn near every group you get is gonna be a PUG. I can count the number of PUG's on my hand, and I play extensively, that an Ele on the team has even had SF. (If we're talking PvP, then yes get a SF ele and go more support than this build gives)