character bug

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

hi just want to know if anyone has had this problem
I have been on Guild Wars all after noon and i very quickly logged out to change over to another character and when i got in 4 of my characters were gone still had 4/8 but 4 had tottaly vanished so i logged in 1 of my characters and all my money is still there and my ecto's they noway i could of been hacked while ingame so this has to be a bug by arena net but they said they cant restore anything lost and sent numerouse reason how i could get hacked after reading through them i found nothing on how i could of been hacked i scan daily and only use this site to get info on items and i dont use any download programes at all.

Would like to hear if anyone else have had this problem and what can i do about it if it doesnt fix itself.

Smile Like Umean It

Smile Like Umean It

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/Rt

Wow...
That more than sucks.
I have seen a couple threads about this happening to other people for one of their chars, but never four.
And to make matters worse for you, I haven't heard one story where they were able to get their char or anything on the char back.
I'm really sorry.

Free Runner

Free Runner

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

GW2G

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

This is a serious bug. To have 1 character deleted is bad enough. But 4?!. I have seen various reports about people characters suddenly vanishing and its getting me uneasy

Andyke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Yeah I have heard of people loosing characters but there gold and ecto's were still in there vault, doesn't really looked like being hacked because thats the first thing I would visit if I was a hacker.

But then I guess Areanet would never admit to a bug that causes this ...

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

well emails recieved so far arnt looking good they just telling me how i can change my password and telling me how its possible to be hacked but this had to be a bug it happend while i was playing the game

Andyke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Sounds like Areanet has its support service located at Microsoft, they are also good at ignoring what the 'CUSTOMER' is writing!

Yeah I think sometimes Areanet forgets that we all are customers!

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

look at the times lol

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support. After further investigation, It is possible for characters to be deleted from your account whilst you are logged in on a character. The logs below show that a second person logged into your account and deleted 4 characters from your account.
Unfortunately we are unable to recover any characters lost in this manner. We would suggest that you change your Guild Wars account password to ensure that you do not encounter this issue in the future.

Timestamp Type Character Name Previous Name
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Lic Uk M (N/A)
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Lic Dragon (N/A)
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Licania Uk (N/A)
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Lic Uk (N/A)

Lonesamurai

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

Ok, I'm a little disturbed by this...

ANet is honestly saying that it IS possible for someone to log in as you are actually playing and change your details???

ANet, deal with this NOW!

Andyke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Actually I would ask Anet how it is possible to delete 4 characters at the same time, its simply impossible because you have to type the char name that you wishes to delete! So why does this logfile show that the 4 chars are deleted at exactly the same moment?

So my guess this is a bug in the game that might happen to all of us one day or another and all they will try to make us believe is that we are been hacked?

Barrett

Barrett

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

W/

probly is some dumb a-net bug highly doubt would admit to it
4chars all delelted same time is v odd unless your super fast typer :P
and they are talking alot of C**p 1person can log onto a account at once
ive bought account with ingame money once when i didnt know much bout game the account was bein used by more then me everytime some1 else logged on booted me out also freinds list cudnt show 2chars logged on at once could it
all i say to anet is stop talkin c**p and get those chars restored!

Nextonex

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

God of Griffins

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by licania
look at the times lol

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support. After further investigation, It is possible for characters to be deleted from your account whilst you are logged in on a character. The logs below show that a second person logged into your account and deleted 4 characters from your account.
Unfortunately we are unable to recover any characters lost in this manner. We would suggest that you change your Guild Wars account password to ensure that you do not encounter this issue in the future.

Timestamp Type Character Name Previous Name
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Lic Uk M (N/A)
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Lic Dragon (N/A)
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Licania Uk (N/A)
2007-01-21 19:36:42.000 Delete Lic Uk (N/A)
This is without a doubt a bug of some sort. I would reply and ask them how you can delete 4 characters in less than 1 second (the log may only update once a second, that's why the .000).

They actually gave you the evidance that proves them wrong. Ask to be escalated to their managment.

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

this is also an email recieved from them on behalf of this matter they is 1 more what i will post up shortly.
Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support. As we have advised previously, it would appear that your account was either accessed by someone who you have given your details to or it has been comprimised.

So, if you think you may have been comprimised you should take several steps to remedy the situation:

1) First get some sort of current anti-virus software and scan your system for virus and key-loggers.
2) Change all the passwords for accounts your may have accessed after installing any 3rd party software. This would include your Guild Wars account, email addresses, forums accounts, etc.
3) We also highly recommend you take a look at this Security FAQ that includes more information regarding keeping your Guild Wars account secure: http://support.guildwars.com/cgi-bin...hp?p_faqid=993

As far as items, characters, or gold that were lost due to your account being hacked, we are unable to replace any of those things. We highly recommend following the above steps to avoid such an inconvenience.

We will be unable to reply to you on this matter any further.

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

Character bug? That's a tad bit presumptuous, eh?

Key logger activity explains the outcome. Blaming it on a "bug" and dumping on ANet solve nothing.

The time stamps could be explained by the polling rate/method of the deletion log activity.

It truly is a crappy situation, but I would get your PC scanned immediately.

-Virus
-Malware/Spyware/Adware
-Firewall

EDIT: running one program for the purpose of catching malware is usually unreliable. A layered approach is best. Also, these programs must be updated regularly to be effective.

The are many free and exceptional programs to use:

http://www.filehippo.com/

http://www.ccleaner.com/

My point is...run a scan and let us know if your pC comes up clean. Especially, before we start blaming ANet.

Additionally, consider that malware isn't the only way an account can be compromised.

And, lastly, consider the reasons that ANet might have coded their program to allow for another login.

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

My PC is clean and i dont just 1 programe when scanning either and i dont use 3rd party programes and dont DL from this PC. and the other email i still have yet to add states it was my IP that was responsible for it

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

last email to add now.
Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support. After further investigation, we have not been able to find any problems with your account and there are no bugs relating to losing characters. It is not possible for characters to be deleted from your account whilst you are logged in on a character and if a second connection is made on the account, the person logged in will be disconnected.
Unfortunately we are unable to recover any characters lost due to accidental deletion from your own IP address. We would suggest that you change your Guild Wars account password to ensure there are no security issues existing due to any account sharing problems.
We are now regarding this matter closed.

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by licania
My PC is clean and i dont just 1 programe when scanning either and i dont use 3rd party programes and dont DL from this PC. and the other email i still have yet to add states it was my IP that was responsible for it
Yet, your characters were deleted.

Let's consider what is more likely:

A. ANet has a "BUG" that deletes multiple characters and logs the information as a player driven deletion.

B. Your account was compromised and a malicious script/malware program that spoofs your IP (or simply runs from your own PC) deletes your characters.

C. Someone has your Username and Password and performed the deletion from your PC, no mal-ware required.

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

im going with A cause ive done the scans and my PC is clean if it was a hacker why would they leave 4 characters and leave my storage stuff also? and for C nobody knows the email i use for GW its only used only for this game and nobody knows my password i trust people but thats personal and should never be given at all.

Nextonex

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

God of Griffins

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus
Yet, your characters were deleted.

Let's consider what is more likely:

A. ANet has a "BUG" that deletes multiple characters and logs the information as a player driven deletion.

B. Your account was compromised and a malicious script/malware program that spoofs your IP (or simply runs from your own PC) deletes your characters.

C. Someone has your Username and Password and performed the deletion from your PC, no mal-ware required.
B and C are also out. even if the character deletes were done with a script, the server still has to process each of the 4 delete requests, I don't see how it's possible to delete 4 characters in 1 second especally since you have to type the full character name in before each delete. The delete's had to have been done server side.

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nextonex
B and C are also out. even if the character deletes were done with a script, the server still has to process each of the 4 delete requests, I don't see how it's possible to delete 4 characters in 1 second especally since you have to type the full character name in before each delete. The delete's had to have been done server side.
If log entries are only appended every 30-60 seconds then this is not a factor.

licania

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

if that were the case kuld then surely they would choose 0 seconds and then 30 seconds within the minuits and not 42 seconds =/

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

Just a time entry. The intervals set for logging are usually chosen with server load in mind. Polling every account very frequently would slow everything down to a crawl. So, an interval is selected.

On 2007-01-21 at 19:36:42.000 4 events occurred to the account during the window since the LAST update.

I'm just saying, I wouldn't be too hung up on the time stamps.

For example: on these forums you have a window of opportunity to EDIT your post before an edit tag is used to show the post was edited.

Andyke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Yes thats true, but if you edit 4 of them the times will be different

Also I do not really like the 'key logger' excuse, if you ever used a key logger then you would know that the output is nothing more then a text file showing all the keystrokes you have made. It will never say 'my user id and password for guildwars are ...'. So a hacker will see a username in the form of an e-mail address and a password, there he goes but what is it for? Now unless you enter Guild Wars with the message 'Hellow I am in Guild Wars' its going to be a little harder then that, so if the hacker is not bothered with ready the whole logfile he might find out, download the game, install the game and log onto the game. Now it seems this hacker has the intention to do harm so he is going to delete characters, only 4 out of 8?? Wow what a rush! But its doubtful that this is going to be the case.

So lets presume that he installed some 3rd party software to who knows what ... with Guild Wars, the hacker in this case knows what Guild Wars is and has it installed. Now lets all presume that we are the hacker, what would we do in this situation. Right lets go trough all his chars and look for the rare skin weapons, lets go the vault and see if he has allot of gold and ecto's and other expensive materials. Yet it seems that in his case he still has all his gold and ecto's and other valuable materials, he even has 4 other chars and nothing is missing on those. So I think the thieving hacker is out of the question!

Lets not even go into virus, spyware or adware, they do not delete chars in GW.

A script? Yes, but then this is a very genius script, to be able to log in, select gw chars, recognize screen names (ocr technology) and start deleting them. I don't think so!!! The reason is very simple, it would delete everything and it doesn't make the process go any faster since its server side based and it cannot make the deletion go any faster.

As an IT engineer I receive this sort of situations on a dayly bases, not with GW of course, but files that disappear and so on, the biggest mistake is to make assumptions about what could have gone wrong, no you look at the evidence and make an analysis based on what you got. And what do we have here?

We have officials showing him a log file that 4 chars have been deleted at exactly the same time, now your explanation about log files doesn't make sense because log files don't poll every 30 seconds or even 60 seconds, if they would then they would need giant server rooms just to do that on its own. No my friend, log files are based on operations and it will only add a piece of information follow by a certain operation and it will use the exact time stamp for it.

We also have a mail stating that the operation occurred from his own IP address, I am afraid by doing so they have actually placed hackers out of the picture, so that leaves us with him deleting his own chars and as we know it is impossible to delete 4 chars at the same time client side.

But true evidence comes out of how people react and respond and the way Areanet is responding by not willing to respond on the matter anymore tells us allot. They seem to simply ignore him and the fact that he is a 'CUSTOMER' doesn't seem to interest them the least.

The fact that he spend allot of time to getting his chars were they were and to get them a nice armor and weapons is simply whipped of the table as if it doesn't matter, I even wonder if you can take legal actions against Areanet based on all of this.

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyke
We have officials showing him a log file that 4 chars have been deleted at exactly the same time, now your explanation about log files doesn't make sense because log files don't poll every 30 seconds or even 60 seconds, if they would then they would need giant server rooms just to do that on its own. No my friend, log files are based on operations and it will only add a piece of information follow by a certain operation and it will use the exact time stamp for it.

We also have a mail stating that the operation occurred from his own IP address, I am afraid by doing so they have actually placed hackers out of the picture, so that leaves us with him deleting his own chars and as we know it is impossible to delete 4 chars at the same time client side.

But true evidence comes out of how people react and respond and the way Areanet is responding by not willing to respond on the matter anymore tells us allot. They seem to simply ignore him and the fact that he is a 'CUSTOMER' doesn't seem to interest them the least.

The fact that he spend allot of time to getting his chars were they were and to get them a nice armor and weapons is simply whipped of the table as if it doesn't matter, I even wonder if you can take legal actions against Areanet.
OK...let's take a look at possibilities:

A. The OP is lying/misrepresenting.

B. ANet has a software bug/rogue account admin deleting characters.

C. The OP has a compromised account (ie. someone has access to his account and computer/or from the same IP)

Which out of the 3 is most probable?

Andyke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Well being in the position that he is a friend, knowing that he has 1 computer, knowing that it isn't wireless, knowing that I was playing with him at the time that the event occurred.

I would go for B, and I am pretty sure that this might occur in a certain situation, but I guess we will talk again about it when it happens to you and you can't find any reason on your computer that might have caused this.

LaraManiac

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2007

Nemesis Rising

W/

This is the job that ArenaNet should be doing - it's nice to read that there are quite a few of you out there that obviously understand more about the possiblilities of how this has happened than I do. But, gawd forbid, if this happened to me I wouldn't know anything about server logs, key loggers, OPs etc this is ArenaNet's job - I'm a customer and I've paid for my goods now I want the service I deserve.

I've been playing Guild Wars for almost two years now, never had a bad word to say about ArenaNet, in fact I considered them very highly, but this is a bad show - they can't just dismiss this issue with "It's your own fault - get over it!!!!!"

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

I have an open ticket with ANet at the moment concerning PlayNC Master account issues, I received a non-automated reply first thing this morning.

In regards to Andy being a "witness' to the character deletions; I would only suggest to both you and the OP that there is very likely something not being accounted for here and it doesn't necessarily mean that ANet is to blame.

I've been a Guild Wars player for almost 2 years now but the only thing that comes close to this issue (that I heard about) was a case where deleting PvP only characters would also delete another character. Now, this was never confirmed, but it was posted about on this forum.

Most problems are repeatable. If they happen once, they tend to happen more than once, especially in electronics and software. So, time will tell.

Andyke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

They might not have another choice then to dismiss you and act like its your own fault. Let me elaborate on this and please tell me what you think of it.

If there is indeed a bug that causes for the lost of characters in a certain situation and Areanet is aware of it, will they admit to it?

I guess that the second question would need to be, can Areanet see the difference between chars lost in this way or chars been deleted by yourself.

If yes then Areanet should admit to it and take responsibility!

But what if they are aware of it and can't see the difference, if they admit to that then everyone can delete chars and star complaining and ask for compensation in whatever gold, ecto's and so on .... Because of the fact that they have stated in that past that they cannot restore chars in anyway, this would mean that they are maybe forced to lie about it?

I wonder what Gaile Gray will have to say about this, nothing much I presume since the technical department has stated that it would not elaborate any further on this matter.

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

It's a tricky issue. Much like reporting a Dragon in your garage to the police, they show up at your house to take a look but don't see it. You explain to them that's because the Dragon is invisible.

It doesn't absolutely mean that you are wrong or delusional, maybe there is a Dragon, maybe it is invisible. But, the police can't deal with it.

Unfortunately, this is a Bermuda Triangle type problem. But, the truth will work it's way out.

If the problem has such a rare occurrence it may never be fixed.

But, bear in mind that Trouble Tickets produce a permanent record. You can go to PlayNC Support and review all the tickets that have been opened on your account. So, as evidence piles into ANet/PlayNC, any endemic problem regarding spontaneous character deletions will be staring them in the face.

LaraManiac

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2007

Nemesis Rising

W/

But this is no comfort in the meantime for the players whose hardwork building up their various characters over the past two years is all just blown away in the wind!! Let me tell you if I had half of my characters deleted, no not half even just one of my characters deleted, I would play merry hell up. Come on ArenaNet you haven't let us down thus far why so now????