Natural Stride vs. Bonetti's Defense for a R/W in PvE

ok well, heres the question:

well, first of all, here is my build:

[skill]Apply Poison[/skill]
[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill]
[skill]Distracting Shot[/skill]
[skill]Savage Shot[/skill]
[skill]Flail[/skill]
[skill]Natural Stride[/skill] OR [skill]Bonetti's Defense[/skill]
[skill]Troll Unguent[/skill]
[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

so, after seeing build and both skills, which one?

nat stride:
advantages - speed boost, 10 second recharge
disadvantages - only 50% evade, ends when hexed or enchanted, which is a lot in PvE by the monks...

bonetti's:
advantages - 75% evade, huge e-management skill
disadvantages - need to invest in tactics for it to be worthwhile, costs adrenaline, can be ok when combined w/ flail.

what is ur opinion?

Depends where your going. If its hex heavy or your using monks with enchantments and theres plenty of high damage enemies around, Bonettis is the choice.

Generally in PvE i'd go for Bonettis, unless you know it might be an idea to bring a running skill... i wouldn't really say there any need for Flail though tbh if your using Apply Poison. Would be alot of hastle to change targets every ~1.5s to poison somet new rather than just focus fire with another prep. So you could always run Bonettis AND Natural Stride. You shouldn't be needing Bonettis that early in a fight anyway.

i need flail becuz the 2.4 second recharge of my nundak's recurve PISSES ME OFF! i need it for dps not applying poison to several targets, anyways...

so u vote bonetti's? ok, thats:

bonetti's:1
nat stride:0

Personally, I've never been big on Bonneti's. While I will admit that I've never used it in a ranger build, I would think that the high adrenaline cost would get in the way of being able to use it when you want and you wouldn't be able to do anymore fighting or heal with troll unless you were willing to let it end.

Even when you may be enchanted or hexed, a fast recharge running skill can be helpful in avoiding damage. Most enemies will stop targetting you if you begin to run at an accelerated rate, so you will get a bit more damage reduction in this way, even if there was no 50% to block in the skill.

The times I've seen a defensive skill the most suitable for a ranger is when he/she needs to get out of battle, heal/get healed or regen, then return to continue dealing damage. Bonneti's works better in a situation where you are just going to sit through the damage and just tank it imo.

/vote for NS

The problem with Bonetti in this build (if you keep Flail) is it's an adrenaline skill. You already can't maintain flail all the time, and with Bonetti you will have to shoot one more arrow whenever you use it to be able to activate flail.

Now the recharge of NS is great but the counterpart is a handicap. When do you need this skill? When you're taking damage. But you know how the healer (HB) and prot (I love when she casts PS when I'm only taking damage from degen ) hench love to cast enchants on you then. So the stance is likely to be stripped when you need it. Of course the monk enchants you may have on you will protect you instead, but in this case I'd rather have both a defensive stance and the monk enchants.

Whirling Defense remains a nice skill too The recharge is longer and some players now used to NS feel uncomfortable with it, but personnaly I find it ok to protect you when needed, which shouldn't happen that often as a ranger (especially with the new AI: warriors seem to love the casters of your team nowadays...).

whirling defense isnt even in discussion, having a whopping 60 second recharge. im still stuck between the two...

bonettis:1
NS:1

keepem coming, thx 4 all the suggestions!

laggy double post... sorry

One thing the OP omits is his attributes which would go a long way towards understanding how he's playing this. At the same time, he's got this or that, when he has something many classes comboes would kill for, MANY situationally good choices. He merely needs to identify his situation and pick accordingly.

For example, I'd only go w/ flail if my marks was 14+. Otherwise the bow damage is a bit lackluster compared to other weapon choices such as the spear. The goal of flail is to up basic weapon damage and adrenaline gain by 50%. Similarly, he can flail every 4 shots or roughly every 7s (he really should be using a short or flatbow if disruptive DPS is his goal).

Bonetti's on the other hand has never really fit well into ranger builds for me. Rangers are built primarily built primarily upon the premise of spamming low cost skills in quantity. His skill picks show he should have an attack skill ready for practically every shot he takes (7.4s, 10.5s, and 5.5s cycle times on his 3 attack skills). Bonetti's ends if you use a skill. Similarly his bar is so energy light he doesn't need the bonetties for the easy energy and then only if melee pick on him. Also, there's another problem here... bonetti's is in tactics, apply poison, troll, and natural stride are all in wilderness lore...

Diverting points from WS,expertise,marks -> tactics is probably not a worthwhile play if he wants a long poison spec to spread heavy poison degen w/ burning when it's available. Apply poison sees two playstyles... a low specced WS where it simply serves as a short duration rapidly reapplied cover which adds 8DPS. Or the high spec where people focus on spreading it w/ a long duration across the entire team, adding a burning arrow/hunters/screaming shot as available to enhance the degen.

Similarly, natural stride is very situational. It's great on a split personality in PvP... where you already have condition/hex removal and won't be using enchants, are are unlikely to get any enchants while split. (even if you do they're likely enchants like aegis... which give you the block at radar range). Natural stride is somewhat zone dependant in that hexes can quickly muck it up. Especially long lasting necro hexes. Even spammed short duration water hexes become problematic. And as sir_mad so nicely illustrates, even my blessed light monk goes nuts w/ her enchants despite the fact that she only has two (I normally go w/ one healer hero, and then a single healing hench, the prot hench is RIGHT OUT w/ natural stride).

Given that this is PvE and going for originality... it may be more usefull to bring something like soldiers defense and watch yourself (buffing yourself and allies), and replace troll w/ heal signet. A low specced poison works just as well for rapidly beating down a single target and keeping burning covered up! Also, in PvE, there's a lot of critters which are poison immune so it's also highly area dependant. I used to sometimes utilize Protectors Defense before the great expertise nerf (sorry but it's too expensive at 5 after needing to divert points to tactics).

Sir_Mad has the right of it. Do not forget skills like whirling defense. With the past AI change, whirling defense has gotten a lot stronger in PvE. At 14spec, it's not only a long lasting 75% block but also a weak 11 point armor ignoring weak AOE for 19s. Since it's so mild now a lot of mobs don't flee from it, but it can rack up some significant damage numbers against casters/paragons/archers. Whirling is one of the few defensive stances worth it's 60s recharge (plus, if you have knockdowns... skills like on your knees can fast charge it). Also, I'll point this out... my PvE char is something of a fire magnet because I will run around w/ double or triple superiors just to attract fire away from the hero's/henches. The AI is merciless about going for the guy w/ the least health it seems, especially if that guy starts the aggro! (PvP never more than a single superior for a ranger!)

Throw dirt, lighting reflexes are also class skills, and you shouldn't be pressed for energy and you already have expertise specced. Throw dirt can and will save your teammates life as well as your own. (although I have a nasty habit of dropping a dust trap just before the fight begins under the monks for when aggro breaks rather than chasing down the warrior to throw dirt in his eyes later).

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