Daily Automated Tournaments -Posted Dec 22nd on guildwars.com
This is the first big change coming up, most likely in late January. Instead of having to spend hours playing lots of matches to climb the GvG ladder, it will all come down to how your guild does in actual tournament play.
It's late January! It's been 36 Days since Arena Net has shared any valid information on this project with the general Guild Wars community. GvG, the last hope for competitive PvP in Guild Wars has been held hostage by the lack of information on the progress of the proposed new format and it's rules.
I am challenging the people who take GvG seriously to take these matters up with Arena Net. I am not going to throw any email addresses out but Michael Gills is in charge of this project and Gaile Gray is our Community Relations Manager. Gaile can be contacted fairly easy and should be able to forward any 411 on to Michael.
Thanks
Daily Automated GvG Tournament WATCH
Vital
DreamWind
I love Anet but this is typical of them. Waiting so long to release big game updates.
Vital
From recent thread, thanks to Billiard for the 411:
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Originally Posted by Billiard
They are going to be delayed. Izzy said they know how much the PvP folks have been anticipating them and they want to get them out as soon as possible, but some things have come up and I was hearing into February at least. I asked to get some more hard info out to players about the tournaments and he said they are working on it, but no promises on anything. There is a lot going on behind the scenes it seems with this.
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Grolubao
Damn, can't wait for the changes to come. I'm at rank 78 and it's basically impossible to reach Cow
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Grolubao
Damn, can't wait for the changes to come. I'm at rank 78 and it's basically impossible to reach Cow
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I have no idea why anet does things the way they do... they should've let us play in the old ladder until they were ready with their goddamn update and then reset + change it with the update. This way we're stuck without ladder and without tournaments till March.
Vital
37 Days and counting...
The old ladder system should have stayed in play until an updated system was in place.
Although Champ Points are not an indicator of true skill, they still raise your faction cap. It would be nice to be playing for them at the moment.
Right now the only thing that can be proven as highly probable is that ANet has dropped the ball, will not confess to the blunder, does not have the resources to fix the problem, and is trying to buy time with really crappy articles about PvP on guildwars.com.
If anyone at ANet would like to challenge the "highly probable", please be my guest!
The old ladder system should have stayed in play until an updated system was in place.
Although Champ Points are not an indicator of true skill, they still raise your faction cap. It would be nice to be playing for them at the moment.
Right now the only thing that can be proven as highly probable is that ANet has dropped the ball, will not confess to the blunder, does not have the resources to fix the problem, and is trying to buy time with really crappy articles about PvP on guildwars.com.
If anyone at ANet would like to challenge the "highly probable", please be my guest!
Esprit
It's not February yet, don't have a Cow. 
Gaile Gray
Hi, there,
There is no need to send emails to ArenaNet to let us know of your interest in and desire for these changes and improvements. So if that's what the OP was suggesting, don't worry about it, we hear ya!
There are many people who need to get involved in getting this feature on board: Programmers, designers, the tournament coordinator, and more. Unfortunately, some of these folks are double- and triple-tasked with other updates and game improvements, and that means there has been a delay in rolling out these features.
We are committed to making these changes, but quite honestly, it will not be possible to do that for at least a few weeks. We were excited to tell you about the upcoming changes, but in retrospect it may have been better to wait to announce until we had a clearer timeline so as to avoid any disappointment in the time that it is taking to implement the features. It's not always a clear call on what to announce: We want to be as informative as possible about what we have coming, so that you have time to think about and plan for the new features. But there are times, like this, when the timeline needs to be extended to allow team members to work on other important elements of the game. So we apologize for any disappointment that such situations cause and we'll see if we can get a more defined timeline for automated tournaments. As soon as we have some solid information we'll definitely post to let you know!!
There is no need to send emails to ArenaNet to let us know of your interest in and desire for these changes and improvements. So if that's what the OP was suggesting, don't worry about it, we hear ya!
There are many people who need to get involved in getting this feature on board: Programmers, designers, the tournament coordinator, and more. Unfortunately, some of these folks are double- and triple-tasked with other updates and game improvements, and that means there has been a delay in rolling out these features.We are committed to making these changes, but quite honestly, it will not be possible to do that for at least a few weeks. We were excited to tell you about the upcoming changes, but in retrospect it may have been better to wait to announce until we had a clearer timeline so as to avoid any disappointment in the time that it is taking to implement the features. It's not always a clear call on what to announce: We want to be as informative as possible about what we have coming, so that you have time to think about and plan for the new features. But there are times, like this, when the timeline needs to be extended to allow team members to work on other important elements of the game. So we apologize for any disappointment that such situations cause and we'll see if we can get a more defined timeline for automated tournaments. As soon as we have some solid information we'll definitely post to let you know!!
Vital
Thank you Gaile, your response is appreciated.
My company was over 6 months late rolling out a company wide software suite because of the exact reasons you mentioned. It is common when the project is not micromanaged to extremes. I understand the internal problems that arise on such cross departmental projects.
I am less worried about the release date, and more worried about the lack of information we have been given. Many hardcore GvG'ers are close to throwing in the towel out of frustration, many already have...5 weeks is way too long to not have any new information about the future of GvG. So many people love Guild Wars just for GvG.
It is my belief that if the GvG community is given fluid information and promises you will see the migration stop and perhaps reverse.
Thanks again.
My company was over 6 months late rolling out a company wide software suite because of the exact reasons you mentioned. It is common when the project is not micromanaged to extremes. I understand the internal problems that arise on such cross departmental projects.
I am less worried about the release date, and more worried about the lack of information we have been given. Many hardcore GvG'ers are close to throwing in the towel out of frustration, many already have...5 weeks is way too long to not have any new information about the future of GvG. So many people love Guild Wars just for GvG.
It is my belief that if the GvG community is given fluid information and promises you will see the migration stop and perhaps reverse.
Thanks again.
Burst Cancel
The problem right now isn't the gap between announcement and implementation, it's the fact that the ladder was reset and modified without implementing the tournament. The term for this kind of update is "half-assed". The ladder is a farce in its current form, because what matters the most right now is grinding out as many wins as you can. Since the ladder has been redesigned such that non-tournament games have relatively little impact on your ladder ranking, the system places all emphasis on farming, much more so than the old system. Right now it hardly matters who you win/lose against; the raw number of wins/losses is what counts.
Billiard
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Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
The problem right now isn't the gap between announcement and implementation, it's the fact that the ladder was reset and modified without implementing the tournament. The term for this kind of update is "half-assed". The ladder is a farce in its current form, because what matters the most right now is grinding out as many wins as you can. Since the ladder has been redesigned such that non-tournament games have relatively little impact on your ladder ranking, the system places all emphasis on farming, much more so than the old system. Right now it hardly matters who you win/lose against; the raw number of wins/losses is what counts.
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So while I agree that getting the tournament info out and getting the tournaments going soon is very important, I don't think changing the ladder when they did was so bad, except perhaps for people who want to farm champion points.
Brother Andicus
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Originally Posted by Billiard
Actually I disagree with this assessment. Izzy talked about the ladder reset some and they were aware that a lot of people were concerned about the changes. If you have read all the discussion concerning ELO systems, the way the ladder was being run before with constant resents was not how ELOs are designed to work. Basically you need a lot of samples (i.e. games played) by a team in order for it's rating to normalize at it's "true" level. This was discussed many months ago when ANet shifted to the shorter seasons. So by going to a historical ladder that would no longer reset, they have brought the system back to where it was designed to be. And by lowering the K-value, they have actually decrease the incentive for teams to just farm rating so they could farm champion points, mostly because there are not enough other teams out there who are 1200+ yet. So yes there are some teams farming now, but not near as many as there would be if the K values were much higher. Instead a lot of teams seem to be waiting for the tournaments to come out before getting serious again.
So while I agree that getting the tournament info out and getting the tournaments going soon is very important, I don't think changing the ladder when they did was so bad, except perhaps for people who want to farm champion points. |
Burst Cancel
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Originally Posted by Billiard
Actually I disagree with this assessment. Izzy talked about the ladder reset some and they were aware that a lot of people were concerned about the changes. If you have read all the discussion concerning ELO systems, the way the ladder was being run before with constant resents was not how ELOs are designed to work. Basically you need a lot of samples (i.e. games played) by a team in order for it's rating to normalize at it's "true" level. This was discussed many months ago when ANet shifted to the shorter seasons. So by going to a historical ladder that would no longer reset, they have brought the system back to where it was designed to be. And by lowering the K-value, they have actually decrease the incentive for teams to just farm rating so they could farm champion points, mostly because there are not enough other teams out there who are 1200+ yet. So yes there are some teams farming now, but not near as many as there would be if the K values were much higher. Instead a lot of teams seem to be waiting for the tournaments to come out before getting serious again.
So while I agree that getting the tournament info out and getting the tournaments going soon is very important, I don't think changing the ladder when they did was so bad, except perhaps for people who want to farm champion points. |
I don't care about champion points, and I was under the impression that top GvG players don't either. What I'm talking about right now is the ladder ranking system itself, independant of farming for champion points. Also, I don't say anywhere that I think the old system is superior. My problem with the current implementation is that only half of the intended changes were put in place, and as a result we have a meaningless ladder system that nobody except the farmers are interested in playing with.
The part of your statement that I emphasized is the natural result of a ladder that is based on farming, so the fact that so many teams are waiting it out (which is something I observed as well) only strengthens my point. The bottom line is that the current ladder system is a reflection of raw win/loss ratio, without taking the skill of the opposing team into account. It doesn't really matter if Team A is strictly better than Team B; if Team B plays significantly more games, they will easily have a higher rating than Team A.
The end result is that serious teams are either a) farming the ladder or b) waiting it out. Neither is good.
drekmonger
Telling people about the (potential) automated tournaments was a good thing. Elicits feedback. Implementing step one without step two was a bad thing.
I know that I'm almost entirely clueless as to what goes on at a.net's offices. As it should be. But I have a sinking feeling the "other important elements" might have included HA's facelift.
The bulk of HA's population is gone. Moved on. It's not going to get any worse than it is right now for HA. The few (but vocal) players still attached to that corpse don't want a facelift -- they just want their old 8v8 back and have fixated on the (extremely silly) team size issue to the degree that nothing else will satisfy them.
Development of HA is probably wasted effort, unless it somehow draws in a whole new crop of players. Unlikely outcome unless there's dramatic changes we haven't seen yet to make the mode more inclusive.
It can get worse for GvG. It is getting worse, as I see (just from my tiny corner of the universe) GvG players sitting out or defecting to other games.
It can't get any worse for my pet PvP mode Hero vs. Hero either. The strange reward mechanic has killed that particular mode via encouraging /rollers. So, sadly, GvG is what's left, all that's left, for serious PvP.
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| the timeline needs to be extended to allow team members to work on other important elements of the game. |
The bulk of HA's population is gone. Moved on. It's not going to get any worse than it is right now for HA. The few (but vocal) players still attached to that corpse don't want a facelift -- they just want their old 8v8 back and have fixated on the (extremely silly) team size issue to the degree that nothing else will satisfy them.
Development of HA is probably wasted effort, unless it somehow draws in a whole new crop of players. Unlikely outcome unless there's dramatic changes we haven't seen yet to make the mode more inclusive.
It can get worse for GvG. It is getting worse, as I see (just from my tiny corner of the universe) GvG players sitting out or defecting to other games.
It can't get any worse for my pet PvP mode Hero vs. Hero either. The strange reward mechanic has killed that particular mode via encouraging /rollers. So, sadly, GvG is what's left, all that's left, for serious PvP.
Bankai
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
We are committed to making these changes, but quite honestly, it will not be possible to do that for at least a few weeks. We were excited to tell you about the upcoming changes, but in retrospect it may have been better to wait to announce until we had a clearer timeline so as to avoid any disappointment in the time that it is taking to implement the features.
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I hate threads with an eye-catcher in the title.
Grolubao
The thing is that we need to know if the rank will mater for anything, like if the rank will mater for the determination of who plays with who, much like swiss rounds in MtG.
My guild wanted to test some other builds besides the one we play but at the rank we are now (69) we can't afford losing some games because otherwise it would catapult us to 100- rank, and if the rank will mater for anything it would ruin all our work.
My guild wanted to test some other builds besides the one we play but at the rank we are now (69) we can't afford losing some games because otherwise it would catapult us to 100- rank, and if the rank will mater for anything it would ruin all our work.
The Chimpster
I come from a non-hardcore GvG team. We do well relatively speaking and usually maintain a 500-1000 rank most of the time. I don't see that changing any time soon with the current system.
When we beat someone rank 2000 odd, we get +2 points (hardly a challenge), when we beat someone rank 500 odd we get +2 points (A big challenge). When we lose to rank 7 we lose -2 points (complete whooping). As a result, we're not advancing on the ladder at all despite us due to our rating never really changing all that much. We get to about 1004 rating points, come up against rank 10-20 and lose horribly. The process seems to repeat itself over and over again.
In the old system, we could beat decent opposition, get a load of rating points from it, lose to a high rank guild and still come out with a positive rank increase - as it should be.
The way it should be setup at the moment is in leagues. The top players should be in league 1 and only play each other. Each week/month the bottom 10 or so could be demoted to the next league down with the top 10 from the lower league being promoted. Doesn't really matter how many leagues you have, at least it would work with a standard reward (+2) system and ensure fair matchups (albeilt fewer prehaps). The tornies could then co-incide with that, prehaps giving promotion spots for the winners.
At least then low ranked teams have the chance to work their way through the leagues until they get to a standard where they plateu so to speak. Once they get to that point, they face simmilar opposition, fair matches (good matches too I bet) and the chance to improve.
I appriciate that changes take time, but currently, GvG is going no-where fast and no-one has anything to work toward.
When we beat someone rank 2000 odd, we get +2 points (hardly a challenge), when we beat someone rank 500 odd we get +2 points (A big challenge). When we lose to rank 7 we lose -2 points (complete whooping). As a result, we're not advancing on the ladder at all despite us due to our rating never really changing all that much. We get to about 1004 rating points, come up against rank 10-20 and lose horribly. The process seems to repeat itself over and over again.
In the old system, we could beat decent opposition, get a load of rating points from it, lose to a high rank guild and still come out with a positive rank increase - as it should be.
The way it should be setup at the moment is in leagues. The top players should be in league 1 and only play each other. Each week/month the bottom 10 or so could be demoted to the next league down with the top 10 from the lower league being promoted. Doesn't really matter how many leagues you have, at least it would work with a standard reward (+2) system and ensure fair matchups (albeilt fewer prehaps). The tornies could then co-incide with that, prehaps giving promotion spots for the winners.
At least then low ranked teams have the chance to work their way through the leagues until they get to a standard where they plateu so to speak. Once they get to that point, they face simmilar opposition, fair matches (good matches too I bet) and the chance to improve.
I appriciate that changes take time, but currently, GvG is going no-where fast and no-one has anything to work toward.
Grolubao
The Chimpster, altough what you say ideally is correct, it wouldn't work nice in that way, because most of the times top guilds couldn't play because there weren't any other top guild out there.
Anyway, I believe something must be done. Last night we played against another guild that only brought 3 people + 3 heroes and one of them were lvl 16 and the other two were lvl 7. Sigh...
Anyway, I believe something must be done. Last night we played against another guild that only brought 3 people + 3 heroes and one of them were lvl 16 and the other two were lvl 7. Sigh...
Vital
Captains Log...whooo, wait wtf.
Last night two of the [OUT] core decided to hang it up until the GvG system is fixed. I can't blame them as they stated that GvG has no real satisfaction at the moment and after waiting for more than a month they feel that ANet bailed on them. So gg ANet, thanks. You can see what the lack of information does to people who love an aspect of the game so much.
Luckily our guild has overstocked on good players, but you can imagine how frustrating it must be for guilds trying to get 8-10 dedicated players when the reward is so little and nobody can tell said guild when to expect to schedule for these auto tourneys (is it 2 hours or 4 hours, 7pm CST or 9pm CST etc.). Not to mention the absolutely absurd 30 day waiting period for guild changes, please change this to a manageable 14 days FFS.
P.S. Send that Scribe dude to "teh isle of auto tourneys" to get some 411.
Last night two of the [OUT] core decided to hang it up until the GvG system is fixed. I can't blame them as they stated that GvG has no real satisfaction at the moment and after waiting for more than a month they feel that ANet bailed on them. So gg ANet, thanks. You can see what the lack of information does to people who love an aspect of the game so much.
Luckily our guild has overstocked on good players, but you can imagine how frustrating it must be for guilds trying to get 8-10 dedicated players when the reward is so little and nobody can tell said guild when to expect to schedule for these auto tourneys (is it 2 hours or 4 hours, 7pm CST or 9pm CST etc.). Not to mention the absolutely absurd 30 day waiting period for guild changes, please change this to a manageable 14 days FFS.
P.S. Send that Scribe dude to "teh isle of auto tourneys" to get some 411.
Bio-Flame
Gayle: the problem is that you guys told us there was going to be a game balance but you kept delaying it forever and ever + we also have a meaningless ladder.
Nobody is going to try new builds (and in fact nobody has tried new stuff for quite some time now) because it's just a waste of time since all skills will change.
Also, nobody likes to play a meaningless ladder.....which also has the HUGE problem that it encourages grinding.
Most guilds have now realized that until the ATs come there is NO way to reach COW and vD.....unless you outgrind them (>25 games/day).
So there is no point to try to catch them because you can't make it. Also there is no point TRYING to catch them since the ladder doesn't count for nothing.
And like I said previously, there's no point designing new builds and strategies because a game balance is coming (we're expecting it for months now).
So, all of this is Killing competitive GvG. It started when Eurospike appeared and it has been getting worse.
Competitive GvG feels like a pond with no new source of water and no source of oxygen.....it's all stagnant water..and it stinks.
See, thing is, EVEN if ANET does this new game balance, all the problems I've mentioned will still exist - meaningless grinding ladder .
ANET needs to change things VERY fast, and the skill balance will not make it alone.
Nobody is going to try new builds (and in fact nobody has tried new stuff for quite some time now) because it's just a waste of time since all skills will change.
Also, nobody likes to play a meaningless ladder.....which also has the HUGE problem that it encourages grinding.
Most guilds have now realized that until the ATs come there is NO way to reach COW and vD.....unless you outgrind them (>25 games/day).
So there is no point to try to catch them because you can't make it. Also there is no point TRYING to catch them since the ladder doesn't count for nothing.
And like I said previously, there's no point designing new builds and strategies because a game balance is coming (we're expecting it for months now).
So, all of this is Killing competitive GvG. It started when Eurospike appeared and it has been getting worse.
Competitive GvG feels like a pond with no new source of water and no source of oxygen.....it's all stagnant water..and it stinks.
See, thing is, EVEN if ANET does this new game balance, all the problems I've mentioned will still exist - meaningless grinding ladder .
ANET needs to change things VERY fast, and the skill balance will not make it alone.
Homsar
All this reminds me of a simple thing we all miss, and wonder why its gone.
UPDATE WEDNESDAY
Where did it go?
Why did it stop?
While I thank Gaile for finally saying SOMETHING for the people upstairs, all this just baffles me sometimes when i think about how GW used to skill balance almost WEEKLY, fix bugs WEEKLY. Now things are so spread out, bugs stay in game for weeks, months. It all makes me wonder, what happened? Why does a game that used to fix everything as soon as it was broke or gave us something new on time (sorrows furnace), suddenly have Perma-migraine on them to get things done. Somehow i feel the attitude in the Anet office has changed from working 90 weeks just to keep us happy, to OMG we have to get Chapter 4 out ASAP when in reality we dont need more stuff, we want the stuff we have to be better.
Its a simple buisness concept, if you expand to quickly and too much, you often experience losses. Im sure i speak for a lot of the PvP community when when we say, we dont need more skills, new guild halls, new ladder seasons, we just want the game we love to be restored to what it was before this game expanded itself so much that people are going out to buy shovels for its grave.
So i say this: get this game balanced again, fix whats broken, make pvp fun again, and worry about everything else later. Chapter 4 can wait, fix what we have now first.
Thank you.
UPDATE WEDNESDAY
Where did it go?
Why did it stop?
While I thank Gaile for finally saying SOMETHING for the people upstairs, all this just baffles me sometimes when i think about how GW used to skill balance almost WEEKLY, fix bugs WEEKLY. Now things are so spread out, bugs stay in game for weeks, months. It all makes me wonder, what happened? Why does a game that used to fix everything as soon as it was broke or gave us something new on time (sorrows furnace), suddenly have Perma-migraine on them to get things done. Somehow i feel the attitude in the Anet office has changed from working 90 weeks just to keep us happy, to OMG we have to get Chapter 4 out ASAP when in reality we dont need more stuff, we want the stuff we have to be better.
Its a simple buisness concept, if you expand to quickly and too much, you often experience losses. Im sure i speak for a lot of the PvP community when when we say, we dont need more skills, new guild halls, new ladder seasons, we just want the game we love to be restored to what it was before this game expanded itself so much that people are going out to buy shovels for its grave.
So i say this: get this game balanced again, fix whats broken, make pvp fun again, and worry about everything else later. Chapter 4 can wait, fix what we have now first.
Thank you.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by drekmonger
I know that I'm almost entirely clueless as to what goes on at a.net's offices. As it should be. But I have a sinking feeling the "other important elements" might have included HA's facelift.
The bulk of HA's population is gone. Moved on. It's not going to get any worse than it is right now for HA. The few (but vocal) players still attached to that corpse don't want a facelift -- they just want their old 8v8 back and have fixated on the (extremely silly) team size issue to the degree that nothing else will satisfy them. Development of HA is probably wasted effort, unless it somehow draws in a whole new crop of players. Unlikely outcome unless there's dramatic changes we haven't seen yet to make the mode more inclusive. |
On the "wasted effort" part, I agree, though. Anet is trying to do some useless crap to halls instead of admitting they up and reverting HA to the way it was a year ago.
Alex Weekes
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Originally Posted by Alleji
Extremely silly? If you actually played HA and understood how it worked, it wouldn't seem that silly. How would you like GvG to be changed to 6v6 and VoD time reduced to 8 minutes? That's exactly what anet did to halls, so please don't judge the HA community for bitching at them.
On the "wasted effort" part, I agree, though. Anet is trying to do some useless crap to halls instead of admitting they up and reverting HA to the way it was a year ago. |
I do, however, want to comment on why other changes are also being looked at. As much as we've seen complaints about 8v8 vs 6v6, there's also historically been a lot of criticism from players about the Altar-capping maps, as especially the issue of "Holding Builds" in halls.
Any change back to 8v8 won't simply cure HA. Team size is not the only HA issue that the community has made us aware of.
The team learned a lot from your feedback during the testing weekend. This weekend you'll be able to test an updated HA and provide even further feedback on the changes. Objective comments about team size are welcome as well, as part of a whole feedback about what you like and what you do not.
Grolubao
Alex, can you please clarify us a bit about the actual GvG guidelines? Will the rank count for anything for the tournaments?
Morgan Crowe
I'd love to have the old laddersystem back. I hate GvG at the moment, you're just playing against bad guilds - even if those bad guilds are playing in the top100 - or you lose against really good ones. So in fact, it's quite hard to get rating. Yesterday we won 4 GvGs and then we lost against a top100 guild - okay, don't worry - go ahead. We were facing a guild about rank700 - so it was very easy to beat 'em.
At last we lost because one player had an error while he was connectin' and there's no possibility to cancel, if the counter has started - sux btw. So the GvG started and another player had an error ... -3...
What I'm trying to say is that it is impossible to find worthy opponents and those +2, -3 rating isn't really fair. I'm not happy with this situation... so bring back the old system and start the ladder without freeze when the tournaments are running.
so far. - btw excuse my bad english :/
At last we lost because one player had an error while he was connectin' and there's no possibility to cancel, if the counter has started - sux btw. So the GvG started and another player had an error ... -3...
What I'm trying to say is that it is impossible to find worthy opponents and those +2, -3 rating isn't really fair. I'm not happy with this situation... so bring back the old system and start the ladder without freeze when the tournaments are running.
so far. - btw excuse my bad english :/
Lodurr
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Originally Posted by Morgan Crowe
I'd love to have the old laddersystem back. I hate GvG at the moment, you're just playing against bad guilds - even if those bad guilds are playing in the top100 - or you lose against really good ones. So in fact, it's quite hard to get rating. Yesterday we won 4 GvGs and then we lost against a top100 guild - okay, don't worry - go ahead. We were facing a guild about rank700 - so it was very easy to beat 'em.
At last we lost because one player had an error while he was connectin' and there's no possibility to cancel, if the counter has started - sux btw. So the GvG started and another player had an error ... -3... What I'm trying to say is that it is impossible to find worthy opponents and those +2, -3 rating isn't really fair. I'm not happy with this situation... so bring back the old system and start the ladder without freeze when the tournaments are running. so far. - btw excuse my bad english :/ |
Instead of waiting three weeks in purgatory for the new ATs, how about a quick fun season with the old ladder system? Something to keep the competitive spirit of GvGs fresh.
Vital
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Originally Posted by Alleji
How would you like GvG to be changed to 6v6 and VoD time reduced to 8 minutes?
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I liked the points Homsar made about fixing chapters 1-3 before pushing out a chapter 4. These points go for PvE also. Clean up the current game and then give the community a quality - balanced chapter 4.
Also give us honest, knowledgeable, and less "hush-hush" public relations. There is a way to satisfy the customer without giving away trade secrets and such.
Lord Master
I agree with Bio-Flame, competitive GvG is simply ''sinking'', maybe I didn't quiet understand the components of the tournaments, will they reflect on the ladder, e.g. Guild X wins tournament Y and gains Z rating points in the ladder? If so then you will need to give over 40 rating as prizes, because some guilds are simply grinding the ladder and therefore no change for ''normal'' gamers...
If there isn't a drastic change in the way this AT update is going ( or where i believe its going) Anet will suffer as many competitive guilds will leave the game, at least, I won't be playing at the same level as guild X and because they play 10 hours a day, I can't reach them ... -_- .
Skill balancing is not so important, ok change Spoil Victor, SF, etc, but we want AT or another positive change which will allow the guilds who don't play 10 hours a day to achieve top of the ladder and compete with extreme guilds, for example how can QQ not be in top5?! Oh, yeah, top5 is reserved for Ladder Farmers.
I think the solutions are: either making the ladder not important and only the AT will count or introducing a revolutionary gaming division, such as Division A (rank1-50), division 2 (51-100), and top/bottom 10-15 will go up/down division, during divisions games are scheduled so teams do 50 gvg's per Season. Ok I am being unrealistic, but AT seem like a pre-disaster, first the problem of time will still exist, there are little guilds who are willing to play 3-4 hours every day in a tournament style.... :|
I really hope Anet can own me and all other users who forsee this update as the destruction of competitive gvg and making it exclusively for guilds with a lot of time, another solution i remenbered, would be to reset the ladder like old-school gvg system and restrict GvG's to 10 per day or something... because 25 gvg's per day is just pure grinding....
Let's hope Anet can pull a magic trick when the pressure is evident, eventhough I don't think this will happen...
, but anyways there isn't yet enough information to forsee the AT's so I'll just keep waiting and hoping it will be a successful change 
If there isn't a drastic change in the way this AT update is going ( or where i believe its going) Anet will suffer as many competitive guilds will leave the game, at least, I won't be playing at the same level as guild X and because they play 10 hours a day, I can't reach them ... -_- .
Skill balancing is not so important, ok change Spoil Victor, SF, etc, but we want AT or another positive change which will allow the guilds who don't play 10 hours a day to achieve top of the ladder and compete with extreme guilds, for example how can QQ not be in top5?! Oh, yeah, top5 is reserved for Ladder Farmers.
I think the solutions are: either making the ladder not important and only the AT will count or introducing a revolutionary gaming division, such as Division A (rank1-50), division 2 (51-100), and top/bottom 10-15 will go up/down division, during divisions games are scheduled so teams do 50 gvg's per Season. Ok I am being unrealistic, but AT seem like a pre-disaster, first the problem of time will still exist, there are little guilds who are willing to play 3-4 hours every day in a tournament style.... :|
I really hope Anet can own me and all other users who forsee this update as the destruction of competitive gvg and making it exclusively for guilds with a lot of time, another solution i remenbered, would be to reset the ladder like old-school gvg system and restrict GvG's to 10 per day or something... because 25 gvg's per day is just pure grinding....
Let's hope Anet can pull a magic trick when the pressure is evident, eventhough I don't think this will happen...
, but anyways there isn't yet enough information to forsee the AT's so I'll just keep waiting and hoping it will be a successful change
Bankai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Chimpster
I come from a non-hardcore GvG team. We do well relatively speaking and usually maintain a 500-1000 rank most of the time. I don't see that changing any time soon with the current system.
When we beat someone rank 2000 odd, we get +2 points (hardly a challenge), when we beat someone rank 500 odd we get +2 points (A big challenge). When we lose to rank 7 we lose -2 points (complete whooping). As a result, we're not advancing on the ladder at all despite us due to our rating never really changing all that much. We get to about 1004 rating points, come up against rank 10-20 and lose horribly. The process seems to repeat itself over and over again. |
I can only suggest you to change the times you GVG at. Try experimenting. During the 'rush' hour, you have a much bigger chance to meet guilds around the same rank.
Bio-Flame
I too fear that the ATs will be for people with loads of time on their hands....
Lord Master
Did Anet make a mistake and screwed up all their update plans? Are they gona leave us in a crappy ladder full of farmers, if I wanted to farm then I would go to Droknars Forge and farm Trolls...
Bring competitive play back and not time fighter tactic... guilds with 250+ games...
I think we have the right to know exactly what Anet is doing this is not Xmas event and we are not waiting for fun surprises, we are constantly blinded by Anet's response, ''something came up'', bla bla bla, tell us what is going on, did you make a mistake? are you chilling? ... we need some GOOD modifications for a change! 8v8 in HA and good GvG system, and stop delaying, this is not the PS3 release, we should be informed about the reality, not ''in a couple of weeks''...
Bring competitive play back and not time fighter tactic... guilds with 250+ games...
I think we have the right to know exactly what Anet is doing this is not Xmas event and we are not waiting for fun surprises, we are constantly blinded by Anet's response, ''something came up'', bla bla bla, tell us what is going on, did you make a mistake? are you chilling? ... we need some GOOD modifications for a change! 8v8 in HA and good GvG system, and stop delaying, this is not the PS3 release, we should be informed about the reality, not ''in a couple of weeks''...
Vital
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Master
Did Anet make a mistake and screwed up all their update plans? Are they gona leave us in a crappy ladder full of farmers, if I wanted to farm then I would go to Droknars Forge and farm Trolls...
Bring competitive play back and not time fighter tactic... guilds with 250+ games... I think we have the right to know exactly what Anet is doing this is not Xmas event and we are not waiting for fun surprises, we are constantly blinded by Anet's response, ''something came up'', bla bla bla, tell us what is going on, did you make a mistake? are you chilling? ... we need some GOOD modifications for a change! 8v8 in HA and good GvG system, and stop delaying, this is not the PS3 release, we should be informed about the reality, not ''in a couple of weeks''... |
lennymon
Ok, while I'm not in a gvg guild or HA currently (mine sorta pre evolved the other way), this is getting stupid. Alex and Gaile have gone out of their way to do the right thing, told you what they know and what they can... quit frikken whining about the system, they know... If people leave they leave, its sad, but they'll either come back or they wont. Que sera sera... Shikataganai...
They want it fixed too, and they want to fix it so that we're ALL happy. Constructive criticism in the proper thread will of course have more weight than all the heart rending stories of loss and sadness. Demanding results? I'll just laugh, don't be ridiculous. Anet knows, anet wants to make it the best they can (yes enlightnened self interest) help them make it better for all of us instead of wasting band width. Flame me all you want, but I'm right... and you know it... and it'll just prove Im right.
They want it fixed too, and they want to fix it so that we're ALL happy. Constructive criticism in the proper thread will of course have more weight than all the heart rending stories of loss and sadness. Demanding results? I'll just laugh, don't be ridiculous. Anet knows, anet wants to make it the best they can (yes enlightnened self interest) help them make it better for all of us instead of wasting band width. Flame me all you want, but I'm right... and you know it... and it'll just prove Im right.
moriz
sometimes, the best thing to do is to give anet a huge boot in the rear.
get to work. stop playing WoW.
get to work. stop playing WoW.
lennymon
heh... I wanna job where I get paid to play wow all day (its about the only way I'd play it actually)
Bio-Flame
We have a right to complain! The game has been slowly dieing for SEVERAL months now....
What do you expect us to do? To complain AFTER the game dies?
Duh
What do you expect us to do? To complain AFTER the game dies?
Duh
lennymon
sure, you have a god given right to whine.... not my issue, dont care, expecting it to have a positive impact IS my point. Im suggesting that the pvp community as a whole try to drive the change in the direction they want. I've seen people complain about anet 'listening to the whiners'. It could be that a minority of people complained because they didn't like some change, and none of the majority who liked it said anything constructive. From reading the skill balance feedbacks threads and the feedback for HA forums there are a lot of people on one side or the other regarding the changes, and this is a HUGE step in the right direction GG anet for asking for a feedback forum. What I'm suggesting is make your voices heard, make new threads say the same thing somebody (or a hundred somebodies said). Make gvg specific skills threads and make everyone in your guild speak up there... Im just saying make your voice count for something, instead of just thinking 'oh great, more whining about a skill that now works more like it should', reply to those posts.
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by Alex Weekes
I do, however, want to comment on why other changes are also being looked at. As much as we've seen complaints about 8v8 vs 6v6, there's also historically been a lot of criticism from players about the Altar-capping maps, as especially the issue of "Holding Builds" in halls.
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The fix to the problem is to keep altars, but make a map AFTER HoH or change the final objective to something other than holding. Oh and 8v8.
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But back to the subject at hand. I think the current ladder is even more of a joke than any ladder in history to be honest. It is even MORE grindy than it ever has been before, because your wins and losses count for almost nothing. The team that plays the most games has a huge advantage. At least in the old ladder you could get a couple wins against higher ranked guilds and have a good day. Now, it almost doesn't even matter who you play. It just matters that you win. The K rating it way too low.
Add to the fact that the ladder is meaningless. No prize, no points towards a championship, no nothing. All it shows is who grinded out the most wins. Also, tournaments were announced way too early. Everybody was expecting them to already be implemented, but now we may have to wait another month. I think the whole ladder/tournament transition is bieng poorly done. GvG seems worthless at the moment.
Also, although nobody has seen them yet, I think tournaments are going to be a bit of a headache. First of all, the 30 day rule is way too long. Secondly, an entire group of 8 people are going to have to log on at given tournament times. And most importantly, they are going to have to spend potentially all day or all night playing in it to win. In a game such as Magic the Gathering (which this whole new system is based on), only one person plays in a tournament and makes the choice to play all day. In a game like Guild Wars where you need 8 players to play all day, it is going to be almost impossible for most guilds.
I guess we will have to wait and see how it turns out. I do think this update is coming very slowly and I know work is being done on it, so thanks to Anet reps for responding.
aeroclown
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bio-Flame
We have a right to complain! The game has been slowly dieing for SEVERAL months now....
What do you expect us to do? To complain AFTER the game dies? Duh |
Development processes are slow even when you grind a 90 hour work week to meet a deadline, you guys have to remember that these guys are people to, they are not your [insert], to be made to do your biding. Very often deadlines get pushed and features get pushed further down the line along with them. Why?! Because let's face it, anyone that has had any experience in development much less game development (which is more often then not much more difficult) knows that very often things simply do not sort them self out as you plan them. Very often simple changes become complex, involved projects requiring far more research and development then you had ever thought you would need. If you complain be constructive, there is no point in making a complaint just to make one, it really doesn't make a point stronger and doesn't help an already stressed situation or an already stressed staff.
Schorny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
We were excited to tell you about the upcoming changes, but in retrospect it may have been better to wait to announce until we had a clearer timeline so as to avoid any disappointment in the time that it is taking to implement the features. It's not always a clear call on what to announce: We want to be as informative as possible about what we have coming, so that you have time to think about and plan for the new features.
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GvG at the moment is broken. That is why we are disappointed. We are not awaiting some amazing new feature, we just want a system that works to some extend.
The Information you are giving is a bit sparse but so far not too bad. But please, never ever again implement a feature before you are finished designing it.