PvE vs PvP - is this possible?

I'm planning on buying an MNMORPG, and so far, Guildwars:Factions is my number 1 choice. Character creations seems to be really great, and nicely balanced too. However, I've been reading about separate PvE characters and PvP characters. I was hoping to spend time doing PvE quests to get good items and such, and then using THAT character and THOSE items to compete against other players. Is this possible? And will this give me an edge against other players, or will an instantly-created lvl 20 PvP character be just as powerful?

p.s. I am aware that Factions is generally considered the worst chapter. This shouldn't be a problem, because if I like the way the game works, I will just buy the other chapters after a month or so.

It will give you know edge. Maybe even less of an edge. If you make a PvE character, you have to do quests that give you 30 attribute points. Then, you would have to buy a Perfect weapon. Once you have both of those, you'll only be EQUAL with a PvP character.

you do not gain any edge over pvp chacters by playing thru the pve portion of the game. All you gain is cool looking armor...weapons and such...but any of thier equipment is or can be just as good as any that you have or will have thru playing the game.

Yes, you can do it either way - work on a PvE character until you reach level 20 or just roll a PvP character. You can tell the difference visually when at the Battle Isles - the PvE have fancier armor bought during the gameplay and the PvP-only have the basic max armor.

More info at http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Main_Page

So does this mean that PvP just get maximum basic armor, but I could have a slight strategic advantage by taking an equal or, perhaps, lower armour which has a special magical ability or something? That's good enough for me

There are no magical abilities...You will have absolutely no feasible edge.

PvP characters are created at the maximum level in the game, they have max armor and weapons and can make use of any unlocked upgrades/skills.

A PvE character is created at the minimum level and work towards the maximum, the sam maximum as PvP characters. The only difference is the looks of armor and weapons, their stats are the same.

Actually, when I gvg, it does scary me a lil when i see three Warriors all in black dyed Primeval Armour, running at my lil PvP warrior with black dyed hand Axes and Black dyed Gloom Shields...

but yeah, PvE characters just look better

Not even differently coloured armour that might give me an edge because I could pick a colour that's hard to see?

I don't know. I think I'd feel cheated if I spent ages working on my character, and then someone would defeat me by clicking 3 buttons and getting a superior version of me. It'd be like losing a boxing match to a guy who just shoots you in the face with a gun - none of the skill and hard work, 10 times the power.

Also, doesn't the lack of magical abilities mean that even with all 3 chapters of the game, there are only 90 effectively different characters you could create? Since eventually, you will have all the skills and all the top items, and then every warrior/monk is an exact duplicate of every other warrior/monk. So what reason is there, then, for me to play Guildwars instead of, say, DotA, which is cheaper and has nearly a hundred different heroes, all of which can be played with about 20 valid late-game item configurations, leading to a total of close to 2000 effectively different characters?

there ARE "magical" armors, such as armor that +energy, +hp, +armor vs damage type, and +armor when you meet x condition, etc. however, pvp characters have access to all that as well, meaning that it is possible to create a pvp char that's equal to a well-equiped pve char.

it used to be that pve chars had a definate edge compared to pvp chars because of armor swaps and multiple weapons. now that's taken away for the better of the game.

Guildwars is about player skill, not who has the best weapons/armour.

Don't you think strategically picking the best items for your character is a skill? And don't you think people who have the skill to complete the hardest PvE quests should be allowed a slight advantage? Just giving them armour with 1 more defense than the maximum armour a PvP character could get would be stupid - but I'd like armour with less defense and some minor special abilities. Not more brute power, but more strategic options.

1 - You will have an edge over someone buying the game and just making a PvP char if you make a PvE character and play through the game first. You will have more unlocked skills,runes and mods. You will also have a fair idea on how the skills/spells work. This is the only edge you can have.

2 - Nope not a max of 90 characters. Each character has a primary and secondary profession so taking into the accoun the number of skills for each profession and the range of primary and secondary professions you can imagine just how many builds you could face, of course there are some favourites out there.

The only possible "edge" is that you could use for instance Slashing dmg type daggers, wihich is better if you run into "shields up!".

No, grinding should not give any benefits.

Well there are still a few things PvE characters can have and PvP chars can't, such as different kind of pets (different evolution, ie more damage and less hp or the contrary - also eventually pets dealing a different type of damage), a few weapons with weird mods, etc, but generally it doesn't make a difference.

I should also add it's really easy to make a PvE char just as good as a PvP char (who has the best equipement), thx to "green" weapons (with perfect stats - they're really cheap generally). Only sup vigor runes are quite expensive. However the advantage of PvP chars over PvE chars, even if you have the best equipement possible on your PvE char, is it's easier for a PvP char to change his armor/runes to enhance his build (you can't afford to have all the armor pieces possible with all the runes possible on your PvE char - nor the space for that!).

stategicaly picking the best weapons and armor is not a skill. if there WAS a best weapon and armor dont u think everyone would have it? skill is knowing what skill to use at what time and what skills counter other skills and such.

this is where i think your missing the point of GW. that pvp char is no stronger than your pve character, and vice versa. you are both on equal ground. what determines who wins is not who spent the most time grinding to get that uber sword or armor, but who is better at the game. GW is a skill based game, not a grind based one. top tier armor and weapons are easy to obtain in pve as well as the max char level.

you have the ability to have the exact same items as that pvp char, and again, its not that hard to obtain them.

as for lack of variety, your armor does not determine your play style. your weapons dont determine your play style. your build is going to determine the bulk of your play style. because GW only has an 8 skill bar, you cant just bring every single spell/skill that you like. you have to work and tweak your build so that it both is able to fit into your teams strategy, and can maintain its viability against whatever team you encounter.

Alright, some mixed reactions here. I've heard one thing I like:

"you have to work and tweak your build so that it both is able to fit into your teams strategy"

That's good. If you've got steady teams, there's room for clever skill combinations with a teammate. That just might persuade me to buy it after all

"stategicaly picking the best weapons and armor is not a skill. if there WAS a best weapon and armor dont u think everyone would have it? skill is knowing what skill to use at what time and what skills counter other skills and such."

This was just a stupid reply. I was clearly talking about DIFFERENT items (I'm used to items which give you bonus spells and stuff like that, that really affect the way you play) - not strictly better ones. And I definitely do think that choosing items that combine well with your skills and your play style takes more skill than cramming all the "spell X counters spell y" info into your head.

I just think that doing PvE quests should be rewarding, rather than merely something to do while waiting for your team to get online. But I guess the reward is that you're equally powerful, but look more stylish. And I like the idea of legendary characters that everybody fears to encounter. This won't happen if anybody can just click up the exact same character in a few seconds.

here is some good advice for you as well... check out the gladiators forum here on guru read some topics about the class you want to start with. Buy the game...create both a PVP and PVE character....Play in Random arenas so you can see what its like...then log into your PVE character to get a feel for how the game is played...once you understand the mechanics of the game and limitaions of an 8 skill bar...and 200 attribute points...then go back and play PvP if that is what you are mainly interested in or continue with your pve toon.

As far as the idea of a Legendary character...that is mainly your name. alot of people use the same name on thier characters with slight variations..but there is no doubt who you are up against..

if u value PVP i would definetly suggest buying the game and trying to find a good guild to get into. The pve portion is fair (i am a big pver but tis the truth) If you are really into ultrauberextradinaryweaponsofmassdestruction go play WoW

if you think there should be "epic" characters created by awesome equipment, then you are playing the wrong game. the game you want to try would be WoW.

however, there are "epic" players. their characters are no better than the average pvp ready character, but the way they play the game made them truly amazing.

the one thing you should remember from this thread is: GW is not D2 with better graphics. to get good, you play good, and that's all that matters.

It will be relevant if I actually buy the game. But I'm currently enquiring about the features of the game, to decide if I should buy it. While I like the team-based PvP, which allows for clever skill-combos with a teammate, I am somewhat disappointed by the fact that items seem very uninteresting. I like games in which characters can assemble an outfit which should, on paper, qualify them for immediate use of a coffin, but which in fact has just the right combination of special abilities to enable a certain odd, but unexpectedly effective way of playing. A small reward for the sneaky bastard that spotted the synergy. And to prevent everybody from copying the trick, the items should not be so easily accessible.
But whatever. If I find some friends interested in playing this game, the skill-combo-strategies just might be enough fun.

unfortunately, the game you want to play does not exist. GW does come close though. your equipment generally won't make or break a character, unless it is truly inferior (using starter armor, etc).

and no, the game is not all about the skills you bring. how you play it will matter greatly.

Once again, I'm NOT talking about awesome equipment. I'm talking about crappy equipment cleverly combined to create an advantage. I don't want to play WoW because there are not enough effectively different characters. I don't to play Diablo2 because it rewards players with too much free time. Guildwars seems to be a step in the right direction for me, since it rewards skill. That's good. But I'm looking for a game that rewards intelligence and strategy.

Finally, someone who understands what I mean. Forget my last post, this comment shows that you know what I'm talking about. And since you understand what I want and claim that Guildwars comes close to it, I'm going to take your word for it. I'll buy it this afternoon. I'll just hope that the whole "team-based PvP" deal makes strategy matter enough - and, of course, post my ideas on the local suggestions forum, if there is any

good, cause thats what GW offers: a competitive, skill based pvp game. choosing what builds to run, how to run them, and how they work with your teammates is the key to the game.

no you wont find uber weapons that let you have bonus skills no one else has. weapons in GW are mostly generic, aside from cool looking skins that dont effect the weapons performance. ill give you a quick example:

basic axe stats

* Slashing damage 6-28 (req. 9 Axe Mastery)
* Damage +15% (while Health is above 50%)
* Life stealing: 3
* Health Regeneration - 1
* Health + 30

the 6-28 dmg is the max for an axe. the 15% dmg modifier is one of the many inscriptions you could add to the axe (max one). the life steal/health regen is one of several axe haft mods to choose (again max one). and the +30 health is one of the axe grips you can choose. and thats about it. no bonus running faster with a weapon, no hidden skills that are unlocked, no super KO power. as for a typical caster weapon:

basic fire staff

* Energy +10
* Fire damage: 11-22 (req. 9 Fire Magic)
* Halves casting time of Fire Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
* Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance: 20%)
* Energy +5
* Enchantments last 20% longer

the +10 energy and 11-22 dmg are the natural maxes for a staff. the halves skill recharge is an inherent mod. the halves casting time is the inscription. the +5 energy is the staff head mod, and the 20% longer enchants is the staff wrapping mod. and again, there are many possible cominations with all the different mods available.

the weapons dont grant any special powers really, but they have the potential to enhance the skills you bring (faster recharges, fast casts, longer durations).

one thing i think needs to be said, is the fact that you wont have access to all of the max mods, runes, inscriptions, insignia, ect right out of the box on a pvp char. they will have to be unlocked, either by acquiring them with a pve char or gaining points from playing pvp and spending those points to unlock them. you also wont have access to all the skills either. same thing. you'll be give armor with the maximum armor level and weapons with max dmg, but the other max mods with have to be earned.

The intelligence and strategy will bring you wins

If you want to check out the game, play PvE in one chapter and see if you like it, if you do and want to PvP then you will need to buy all 3 chapters so you can get all the skills since all skills are not attainable in just one chapter. I would think you would be at a huge disadvantage only having skills from one chapter in PvP. (I may be wrong, maybe you can unlock skills from all chapters in PvP, I am not sure because I have them all)

Small update: Factions wasn't available anymore, so I bought the original. I will still be getting Factions because I want to make an assassin, but I guess I'll just take some time to learn the game with a different character until then.

Edit: This game sure takes a long time to install.

What do you mean it took a long time to install? do you mean to download all the updates? thats because you bought the first edition, which is now 2 years old and its got a lot to catch up with... PM me your character name and I'll give you a hand in game and give you a few tips to make the game better... hell, i might have a few weapons i can give you to get you started

well, over a years worth of content and updates addes up pretty quick

Well over two years worth and coming upto three actually

I'll disagree with moriz, the game the OP wants to play DOES exist, but it's not an MMO: he's basically looking for a game where you could do all the clever item combinations that Interplay's old Infinity Engine games let you do (the Baldurs Gates and Icewind Dales of legend), where it wasn't so much about going for the most powerful weapons and armour but rather to combine the secondary properties and bonuses of different items to give you that powergamer edge (tm) in particular situations

Unfortunately, GW isn't BG2, and I don't think there'll ever be a game quite like BG2 moriz was right that it does come close though, as the element of pre-planning and build-tweaking that you're looking for IS a big part of the game. However, instead of being to do with your equipment, it's to do with picking which 8 skills you pick to put on your skillbar, and exactly how to distribute your 200 attribute points (each character has 8 attributes, 4 for his primary profession and 4 for his secondary, and each skill is associated with an attribute and becomes more powerful the more points you put into that attribute). This might not seem like it gives you anywhere near as many combinations and opportunities for "creative game-breaking" as the kind of game you're thinking of, but with 8 character classes, from which you can pick any combination of primary and secondary profession (56 combos I think), and literally hundreds of skills and more coming out with each new chapter there's plenty of room for experimentation, and of course co-ordinating your build with your teammates in organised pvp multiplies the complexity and possibilities available to you exponentially.

There's an element of this that also involves equipment, but it's far less developed. There's several runes/insignia to pick from to put on your armour, for instance, so you can choose between boosting your attributes, your health, or your maximum energy level (or other more specialised bonuses). PvE characters used to be able to armour-swap mid-match, as someone mentioned, which was one of the advantages they had over PvP characters, but that's been removed. Both types of characters can still swap weapons as often as they want though (you have 4 weapon slots but that doesn't limit you as you can often your inventory and equip any of the weapons in there). For instance, warriors often carry about a weapon that deals elemental damage that they use to get a small damage bonus when they're beating on other warriors (as warriors tend to have armour bonuses against physical damage but not elemental damage). Many also carry a ranged weapon (wand or bow) even if they're not specced to use it, because they can power-up their adrenal skills from further off before charging into the enemy. You can also switch to a weapon set that gives you a bonus to your current energy at the expense of energy regeneration (which casters often use as a backup-battery to switch to in an emergency), or to ones that give you an energy PENALTY (so that if there's an enemy caster stealing your energy you can hide it from them, switching to your normal set and getting it back only when you need to cast), or between sets that give you bonuses to the casting time and recharge of your spells at the expense of a bit of a health and/or armour. None of this has a major effect though, it's more about getting an extra little bit of edge in efficiency rather than a game-breaking move, whereas choosing which 8 skills to equip before each match can be decisive.

As other people have said though, build is only secondary to how good you are at playing the game. 8 skills and 4 weapon slots doesn't sound like much, but, because the game is pretty fast-paced for an RPG, you'll quickly realise that juggling them all while moving about, tabbing between enemies to see what they're doing, watching your own, your team's and the enemy team's positioning, and watching your health and energy levels as well as your status bar to see what enchantments/hexes/conditions or other effects you have on you, all the while communicating with your team, is quite a handful. The game has an in-built observer mode which makes it easy to copy the builds of the top teams, but learning to play them is quite another matter: you can have the same skills as the top warrior in the game but it'll take ages for you to even get within cruise-missile firing distance of their skill level. Many builds additionally require twitch-level reaction times (a monk throwing that heal in just before a teammate goes down, a mesmer interrupting an enemy caster's spell etc.), and all require knowledge of the skills being used more broadly in the game, not just the ones on your skillbar.

While on the subject of obs mode, I have to note that what you said earlier about meeting "legendary characters that everyone fears to encounter" DOES exist, perhaps more so than in any other online game, since you can see all the top-100 games from all over the world and the game isn't fractured into different servers. Everyone on here will know who Bloodlight Eyes or Lara Valor or Heavy Tengu Armor are, and some of them still use their PvE characters to pvp with simply because their distinctive looks have become as famous as their names.

If you haven't bought the game yet and you want to get a taster of what the game feels like, you can go to gwversus.com where they have videos of matches recorded off observer mode. You will be able to check out how different players move, how often and in what sequence they activate skills, and how the team as a whole moves over the map.

Oh, and the pve in Factions really is widely recognised as being the worst of the three: you level up really quickly and then it gets quite repetitive. So, if you still haven't bought it, I'd seriously go for Nightfall.

EDIT: too slow, good to know you've gone for Prophesies, it's a much better avenue for a new player to learn the game as its pve campaign escalates far more gradually than Factions' and its learning curve is slower and smoother. You miss out on the customisable AI heroes from Nightfall which make pve easier but you'll get a more evenly-paced game.

I've finished installing, had dinner while the setup ran. I've created a Ranger named Judith Sanguivore. Haven't been able to pick a secondary profession yet, so my plan of making a ranger/assassin might still work out! Any help is, of course, more than welcome!

Oh its definately gonna happen, however, you have to choose a second profession out of the other 5 you currently have a choice from... you will need to get out of the area you are in, then add Factions to your account, then when your character gets to Lions Arch, you can then take your character over to Cantha and you will then have to fight your way through to Senji's corner, a few missions into Factions to be able to change to Assassin secondary...

So not far really

Before you can obtain a skill or item in PvP you need to unlock it (unlocks are, roughly, based on PvP kills). Similarly, you need to pay money/do missions to get skills or items in PvE. Both types of grind can be hard. If you are not experienced, getting "balthazar faction points" (PvP kills, roughly) can be very, very hard. On the other hand, experienced PvP players have so many "faction points" that they don't know what to do with them.

Therefore, if a PvP player has better items than you, he worked hard to get them (either in PvP or PvE). Being PvP does not provide an immediate advantage. It IS more convenient if you PvP a lot, because you don't need to buy 5 sets of armor for each char and 10 weapons.

yeah, kind of defeats the, "Skill over time played", original idea for the game, but oh well...