Well, comments like this have been posted over multiple threads I have read and it seems to be routing down to a simple problem: Balance doesn't require more professions.
With the next chapter not too far ahead of us I am sure we can all relate to the moments when new chapters got released, and you threw every single gvg/ha strategy you have built over 6 months out the window. This in my opinion is the best positive side of introducing new professions, the completely easiest way to clear out and refresh a brand new metagame, yet I have more then just one problem to counter this.
Introducing more professions is more then ridiculous work for Anet that seems to have little benefit. Every campaign being released, more and more skills come for the existing professions, yet the newer professions are completely left out. The amount of skills obtainable by say, per warrior compared to a paragon are ridiculous. How can you have "balance" when there is a difference in choices based on profession numberically?
Skill updates and "nerfs" work in the same way to refresh a metagame, although with so much time invested into testing as we saw during the weekend event, that it infact, has downsides as well. People will not use certain professions/skills if something was touched off too badly.
What I proposed in another thread was to simply rotate the classes in the next expansions, remove 2 of the original 6 and replace them with the "newest" 4,
eg. Ranger, Mesmer, Monk, Necromancer, Ritualist, Assasin, Dervish, Paragon
This will give time and actual thought put into existing classes instead of "pumping more every 6 months."
With a total of 4 Professions every year, we are on a tight rope. Not only do I propose rotating classes I even propose having the games/expansions released every 7-8 months. This gives time for playtesting and balance, but does it give Anet enough funding?
Discuss.
The problems of introducing more professions
Shmanka
Spellforge
Part of me likes this , part of me doesn't. I can see the reasoning but I wouldn't enjoy this implementation. I have 4 Characters I play a lot. Warrior , Ranger , Monk and Necro.
The first 3 I have played all through all 3 campaigns , the last factions and nightfall only.
If a new campaign came out and I got no reward , therefore little incentive for 1 or 2 of these professions then I probably wouldn't run them through which would sadden me a bit as I am quite fond of the silly collection of polygons.
I liked the idea of the ritualist to begin with but never made one because the original plan was not to add to them in later campaigns (good idea that this didn't happen) But it caused me not to make one.
So I wouldn't agree with this idea.
Try this one instead - introduce new proffessions that are secondaries only - ie no primary attributes , no runes to increase attrbiutes.
This would add diversity but reduce the chances of imbalance.
Reduce the need for new armours (these new secondaries wouldn't need them)
For example
/summoner
summons some creatures - have say 3 attribute lines (no primary) have a few high energy summon spells and buffs for the summond creatures. No attribute would be greater than 12.
With no primary attrbutes you don't have to try to make them balanced , fit in and make sense
The first 3 I have played all through all 3 campaigns , the last factions and nightfall only.
If a new campaign came out and I got no reward , therefore little incentive for 1 or 2 of these professions then I probably wouldn't run them through which would sadden me a bit as I am quite fond of the silly collection of polygons.
I liked the idea of the ritualist to begin with but never made one because the original plan was not to add to them in later campaigns (good idea that this didn't happen) But it caused me not to make one.
So I wouldn't agree with this idea.
Try this one instead - introduce new proffessions that are secondaries only - ie no primary attributes , no runes to increase attrbiutes.
This would add diversity but reduce the chances of imbalance.
Reduce the need for new armours (these new secondaries wouldn't need them)
For example
/summoner
summons some creatures - have say 3 attribute lines (no primary) have a few high energy summon spells and buffs for the summond creatures. No attribute would be greater than 12.
With no primary attrbutes you don't have to try to make them balanced , fit in and make sense
lyra_song
I dont believe Anet introduces new professions for balance.
New professions are created so each game has something different and feels different.
New professions force tactics to change in each game, based on the enemy mob types you face (i tend to carry more enchantment removal in Elona for example).
If Anet wanted to balance the game completely, they'd stop making professions and skills and just tweak everything.
But that gets old really fast.
And lord knows theres some people who play this game with massively short attention spans.
New professions are created so each game has something different and feels different.
New professions force tactics to change in each game, based on the enemy mob types you face (i tend to carry more enchantment removal in Elona for example).
If Anet wanted to balance the game completely, they'd stop making professions and skills and just tweak everything.
But that gets old really fast.
And lord knows theres some people who play this game with massively short attention spans.
=DNC=Trucker
I just hate to see new professions become grinding attempts to add things you probably don't need 
Warrior: Damage via physical melee attacking / high armor
Monk: Heal
Necro: Summon undead and curse enemy
Mesmer: Indirect - Enemy shutdown
Ele: Elementals!
Ranger: Ranged attacks, bow/trapping
New professions since originals:
Ritualist: Summon spirits/healing (same purpose as monk)
Assassin: Deadly physical attacks/lower armor (good addition imo, can't really compare to another class)
Dervish: Damage via physical melee attacking (same purpose as warrior)
Paragon: Spear attacks/support (basically a Ranger/Rt)
Please don't consider my definition of purpose to = same. I know the difference between a Ritualist and a Monk! However, they are both a means to an end: protect/heal your party. Ok, we have smiting and channeling for the "utility" attribute, ok ok. I am just talking about the main purpose here. When you are in a town asking for Monk, do you expect that monk to come in as a smiter? I seriously doubt it.
So, bringing in new professions is no doubt difficult to develop. What do you make these things do? More importantly, how do you characterize what they do so it makes sense in a game as such?
My suggestion? Exploit the primary attributes! Its the only way to /individualize/ each profession and make them more unique. Maybe add more primary attribute skills? Also, what about a skill in the Swordsmanship line that is only available to a primary Warrior? This way you can individualize a warrior class without having to sit around and think of a skill to put into the Strength attribute.
Warrior: Damage via physical melee attacking / high armor
Monk: Heal
Necro: Summon undead and curse enemy
Mesmer: Indirect - Enemy shutdown
Ele: Elementals!
Ranger: Ranged attacks, bow/trapping
New professions since originals:
Ritualist: Summon spirits/healing (same purpose as monk)
Assassin: Deadly physical attacks/lower armor (good addition imo, can't really compare to another class)
Dervish: Damage via physical melee attacking (same purpose as warrior)
Paragon: Spear attacks/support (basically a Ranger/Rt)
Please don't consider my definition of purpose to = same. I know the difference between a Ritualist and a Monk! However, they are both a means to an end: protect/heal your party. Ok, we have smiting and channeling for the "utility" attribute, ok ok. I am just talking about the main purpose here. When you are in a town asking for Monk, do you expect that monk to come in as a smiter? I seriously doubt it.
So, bringing in new professions is no doubt difficult to develop. What do you make these things do? More importantly, how do you characterize what they do so it makes sense in a game as such?
My suggestion? Exploit the primary attributes! Its the only way to /individualize/ each profession and make them more unique. Maybe add more primary attribute skills? Also, what about a skill in the Swordsmanship line that is only available to a primary Warrior? This way you can individualize a warrior class without having to sit around and think of a skill to put into the Strength attribute.
Vanquisher
New professions are one of the reasons this game is so poorly balanced.
Hi Godmode and Paragons.
Hi Godmode and Paragons.
Winterclaw
This is something I have been wondering about for a while. Eventually ANet will get too many new classes.
Earlier this month or last month I suggested that for chapter 5, none of the core starter classes be used, instead make it all the newer classes as that game's core professions. Another thing that could be done instead of adding new classes would be to add skill lines to older classes. One other way to solve this problem is have the next couple of chapters return to cantha and tyria and add the newer professions to both of those games.
Here's another reason why more classes are adding problems: armor. With every game, we are seeing fewer and fewer new sets of armor for each class. So in each game not only is each class getting less visual distinctions, but the newer classes aren't getting the wealth of choices. Consider this, in the first game, everyone had at least 4 elite armor options. In factions, the number was reduced to 3. In NF, sassis and rits only got two new armor choices while the others got 3 ascended armors: vabbian, ancient, and primeval. Consider this contrast: in factions rits got 12 armor types, in NF paragons got 7 types (neither counted obsidean). Factions "cheated" a little by having some of the proph armor for the core classes in it while NF failed to cheat (and it would have been really nice if those other designs were available).
One other problem of too many classes is UAS and UAX. It's getting more and more costly to keep up with the changes and for classes like warriors and els, most of the new skills were in one or two of the skill lines. That's getting too expensive for some people to keep one PC on top of the skills, much less all of them.
Earlier this month or last month I suggested that for chapter 5, none of the core starter classes be used, instead make it all the newer classes as that game's core professions. Another thing that could be done instead of adding new classes would be to add skill lines to older classes. One other way to solve this problem is have the next couple of chapters return to cantha and tyria and add the newer professions to both of those games.
Here's another reason why more classes are adding problems: armor. With every game, we are seeing fewer and fewer new sets of armor for each class. So in each game not only is each class getting less visual distinctions, but the newer classes aren't getting the wealth of choices. Consider this, in the first game, everyone had at least 4 elite armor options. In factions, the number was reduced to 3. In NF, sassis and rits only got two new armor choices while the others got 3 ascended armors: vabbian, ancient, and primeval. Consider this contrast: in factions rits got 12 armor types, in NF paragons got 7 types (neither counted obsidean). Factions "cheated" a little by having some of the proph armor for the core classes in it while NF failed to cheat (and it would have been really nice if those other designs were available).
One other problem of too many classes is UAS and UAX. It's getting more and more costly to keep up with the changes and for classes like warriors and els, most of the new skills were in one or two of the skill lines. That's getting too expensive for some people to keep one PC on top of the skills, much less all of them.
Winterclaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
I dont believe Anet introduces new professions for balance.
New professions are created so each game has something different and feels different. New professions force tactics to change in each game, based on the enemy mob types you face (i tend to carry more enchantment removal in Elona for example). |
I think there are ways fro anet to change the tactics in new games with the existing classes. For example give warriors and maybe dervishs a pole arm line of skills, give monks unarmed kung-fu skills, give assassins a line of skills that deals with dagger throwing, give mesmers a more or less direct damage line of skills, rits and rangers could get summons that act like pets, and give elementalists a new element or two (like light and darkness).
Quote:
| there's some people who play this game with massively short attention spans. |
MagicWarrior
I definitely would not want to see any professions removed. I like how every expansion adds more professions. Perhaps only one new profession per expansion might be better?
baddog992
I kinda of agree with the general points however its a selling point for GW that it has new classess, and to try and keep interest in the game high, if all you have is a new map and no new classess then your just talking about a expansion pack and then they would be forced to lower the asking price on the games they make, expansion packs sell for less dollars.
FoxBat
Casual players (the majority) buy it to try out something new, hardcore pvpers are forced to buy it just to keep up. Seems win-win for Anet.
I also expect less to no support for asn/rit in chap 4.
I also expect less to no support for asn/rit in chap 4.
Titan Chrae
I look forward to trying the new classes for each campaign. This is one of the main enjoyments for me.
I can see, however, that as more and more classes are added the challenge for creating new skills and balancing existing skills becomes exponentially greater. The only solution I see is to hire more resources to carry on the business model (New chapter with two new professions every 6 months and no online fee.)
Can GW continue to grow it's player base to support more resources though? It seems to me that most of the players are return customers and the new costomer base needs to grow faster in order for this business model to succeed. Maybe we should get the word out to our friends and relatives about how great this game is!
I can see, however, that as more and more classes are added the challenge for creating new skills and balancing existing skills becomes exponentially greater. The only solution I see is to hire more resources to carry on the business model (New chapter with two new professions every 6 months and no online fee.)
Can GW continue to grow it's player base to support more resources though? It seems to me that most of the players are return customers and the new costomer base needs to grow faster in order for this business model to succeed. Maybe we should get the word out to our friends and relatives about how great this game is!
Kelsey Cain
Part of the problem is that the original core professions are too broad. I would be interested to hear whether, in hindsight, the developers feel they should have limited each profession.
For example an elementalist could quite easily be four seperate professions, ranger could be at least 3 (trapper/tracker, archer, beast master) etc
Perhaps in future they will look at expanding the current professions by adding 'specialist' classes derived from the exising core range (eg fire mage) which can access slightly more powerfull skills to balance the specialism.
For example an elementalist could quite easily be four seperate professions, ranger could be at least 3 (trapper/tracker, archer, beast master) etc
Perhaps in future they will look at expanding the current professions by adding 'specialist' classes derived from the exising core range (eg fire mage) which can access slightly more powerfull skills to balance the specialism.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kelsey Cain
Part of the problem is that the original core professions are too broad. I would be interested to hear whether, in hindsight, the developers feel they should have limited each profession.
For example an elementalist could quite easily be four seperate professions, ranger could be at least 3 (trapper/tracker, archer, beast master) etc Perhaps in future they will look at expanding the current professions by adding 'specialist' classes derived from the exising core range (eg fire mage) which can access slightly more powerfull skills to balance the specialism. |
IIRC, Anet has made it clear that the expansion professions are specialists already.
The thing that Anet has to address is PvP with all the new classes and skills.
They need to apply LIMITATIONS to official tournaments, ie: ban some skills or skill combinations to prevent certain abuse without nerfing some skills to death. Maybe even create limited tournaments based on core skills alone.
For example.
Keep the Searing Flames + Glowing Gaze combo.
But if you enter HA, you can only have 1 elementalist in the party with those skills together on their bar.
yeah_hi
Personally, I don't want to see more professions for a while (I'm not saying ever). I have enough to do as it is with 10 classes; both balance and originality issues concern me too.
I'd far rather forego new professions in the next chapter, and have the ability to create all of the existing 10 classes in it, and have new skills/armour available throughout the game for all 10.
My reason for this is: although I understand why, I was disappointed when I couldn't take an Assassin through pre-sear, and I was disappointed when I found that there were only 2 Elonian armours for my Rit (especially no endgame stuff).
Although I can understand this, my opinion is that it would make the skill system too unwieldy. Banning skills and combinations seems to me to be a (potentially messy and confusing) workaround to the issue of balance, as opposed to a fix.
YMMV.
I'd far rather forego new professions in the next chapter, and have the ability to create all of the existing 10 classes in it, and have new skills/armour available throughout the game for all 10.
My reason for this is: although I understand why, I was disappointed when I couldn't take an Assassin through pre-sear, and I was disappointed when I found that there were only 2 Elonian armours for my Rit (especially no endgame stuff).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra song
They need to apply LIMITATIONS to official tournaments, ie: ban some skills or skill combinations to prevent certain abuse without nerfing some skills to death. Maybe even create limited tournaments based on core skills alone.
For example. Keep the Searing Flames + Glowing Gaze combo. But if you enter HA, you can only have 1 elementalist in the party with those skills together on their bar. |
YMMV.
baddog992
Yes but then the broader problem is what skills to nerf? Do you nerf meteor shower because you think its overpowered? What about bleeding and/or poisin do you ban those, and they did lower the burning rate, Im not sure I like GW banning certain powers because some feel that its overpowered were do you draw the line at? Make it like rock,paper and siccors? I think your on a slipery slop when you ban certain powers in a match.
Bread Fan
The biggest problem with new professions is that Anet has an inadequate testing team and they lack creativity.
NoChance
I think Anet needs to phase skills and professions out. Sounds horrible, and it is, but I think it's the only way to keep GW expanding without becoming too big to balance.
If we are playing in a certain chapter, our skillsets should be restricted to the previous set of core skills (which would be collections of selected old skills from any chapter, and which would change every two years) plus the skills from the last three chapters.
this way the number of useable skills per chapter is more or less fixed...
allowing Anet huge flexibility in skill creation. This flexibility leads to more creativity in terms of skills, and in terms of making "theme" sets of skills...
which then keeps the game fresh.
As for professions, I think in terms of business, Anet must spit out new professions each chapter -- it's a big reason why people buy the game. This means that some of these professions will have to be phased out somehow. At best this would mean no new skills being developed for them.
If we are playing in a certain chapter, our skillsets should be restricted to the previous set of core skills (which would be collections of selected old skills from any chapter, and which would change every two years) plus the skills from the last three chapters.
this way the number of useable skills per chapter is more or less fixed...
allowing Anet huge flexibility in skill creation. This flexibility leads to more creativity in terms of skills, and in terms of making "theme" sets of skills...
which then keeps the game fresh.
As for professions, I think in terms of business, Anet must spit out new professions each chapter -- it's a big reason why people buy the game. This means that some of these professions will have to be phased out somehow. At best this would mean no new skills being developed for them.
Slirith
sorry but no....new professions arent gonna go away....we need new classes to try, not just a new story. me for example, i dont play core professions cause they bore me to death. i like newness, not oldness like the core professions, even with new skills, they're still core and boring >.>. just my opinion lol
Grais
Quote:
| ........ I even propose having the games/expansions released every 7-8 months. This gives time for playtesting and balance, but does it give Anet enough funding? |
I PvP very little, I enjoy it when I do, just havent had a lot of opportunity in this regard.
Still I realise how important the PvP side of the game is. It is what will ultimatley sustain the franchise,and with 2 new classes every six months, with the backlog of problems they have allready piling up, they have to seriously think about putting the brakes on, and fixing the car before they travel much farther, lest we have a real overheat and blow a perfectley fine motor.
The idea NoChance presented sounds reasonable, something for Anet to think about.
Orinn
I doubt that ANet plans on introducing 2 new professions each and every chapter. That's been said before, though. They may add new professions in a new chapter, they may not, but don't expect 2 new professions each chapter.
How much support should be given to non-core professions? That's an interesting question, as well as "how many skills should core professions have total?" My answer is that at some point, they need to stop adding new skills to the core professions. This doesn't mean, however, that they need to stop putting out expansions. What if chapter 4 didn't introduce any new skills for the core classes and had no new classes, but had new skills for the 4 non-core classes, and reused skills from Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall? It would reduce the need for balancing, as these skills already exist, it would lessen the impact of people "getting behind" because even if you don't have factions, you can cap a few elites that used to be factions-only.
Honestly, with all the skills already out there for the core classes, how many ever see use? Creating new skills is nice, but I'd personally rather see them rework and buff skills that are never used, then re-introduce the shiny new versions in a new chapter.
How much support should be given to non-core professions? That's an interesting question, as well as "how many skills should core professions have total?" My answer is that at some point, they need to stop adding new skills to the core professions. This doesn't mean, however, that they need to stop putting out expansions. What if chapter 4 didn't introduce any new skills for the core classes and had no new classes, but had new skills for the 4 non-core classes, and reused skills from Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall? It would reduce the need for balancing, as these skills already exist, it would lessen the impact of people "getting behind" because even if you don't have factions, you can cap a few elites that used to be factions-only.
Honestly, with all the skills already out there for the core classes, how many ever see use? Creating new skills is nice, but I'd personally rather see them rework and buff skills that are never used, then re-introduce the shiny new versions in a new chapter.
sinican
My opinion on this is simple...
you can't add more skills without introducing new ways to counter or compliment them and IMO it is much easier to create new professions to do this...
more skills and more professions means more diversity, more playability, and more customizability...
and again IMO it is easier to balance newly created skills for core professions by intoducing other professions that have skills to compliment or counter them...
i don't think this game would have gotten as far as it has without the introduction of new skills and new professions... simply haveing new areas and new creatures isn't nearly enough to captivate the majority of us...
each new chapter what i look forward to the most is NOT the new scenery but it is all the new skills for my already existant characters and new professions to try out and master...
though i must admit, personally im hoping chapter 4 introduces more than just new profs, skill, enemies, and land... im hopeing for a more advanced combat system and some overhalls on existing game mechanics... chapter 3 i believe went in the correct direction... but for some reason GW's entertainment value has dimished for my liking... please amaze us...
you can't add more skills without introducing new ways to counter or compliment them and IMO it is much easier to create new professions to do this...
more skills and more professions means more diversity, more playability, and more customizability...
and again IMO it is easier to balance newly created skills for core professions by intoducing other professions that have skills to compliment or counter them...
i don't think this game would have gotten as far as it has without the introduction of new skills and new professions... simply haveing new areas and new creatures isn't nearly enough to captivate the majority of us...
each new chapter what i look forward to the most is NOT the new scenery but it is all the new skills for my already existant characters and new professions to try out and master...
though i must admit, personally im hoping chapter 4 introduces more than just new profs, skill, enemies, and land... im hopeing for a more advanced combat system and some overhalls on existing game mechanics... chapter 3 i believe went in the correct direction... but for some reason GW's entertainment value has dimished for my liking... please amaze us...
Riceboi
I don't need two new professions, only one! =)
SHAPESHIFTER PLEASE!!!!! PLEASE!!!!
SHAPESHIFTER PLEASE!!!!! PLEASE!!!!
NoChance
from what I recall, way before Nightfall came out, it was said that there wouldn't be new professions each chapter -- I can't remember if Anet actually said this, but I remember many people believed this.
in any case, because Nightfall did introduce two new professions, just like Factions -- players now expect new professions every chapter. I think there will be a huge amount of people who quit if there are no new professions in the next chapter.
People get bored very quickly.. I don't see how Anet can go a chapter without new professions. Skills too... people get tired of using the same skills, seeing the same builds over and over again. New professions and new skills each chapter are necessary (especially skills, in terms of PvP).
That's why instead of having the game staystatic so as to not have too many skills/professions, I think it's best to always introduce new skills/professions, and remove the oldest ones. It does suck, I myself like the Ritualist profession, but I think eventually, in some way, it's got to go -- in the name of progress.
in any case, because Nightfall did introduce two new professions, just like Factions -- players now expect new professions every chapter. I think there will be a huge amount of people who quit if there are no new professions in the next chapter.
People get bored very quickly.. I don't see how Anet can go a chapter without new professions. Skills too... people get tired of using the same skills, seeing the same builds over and over again. New professions and new skills each chapter are necessary (especially skills, in terms of PvP).
That's why instead of having the game staystatic so as to not have too many skills/professions, I think it's best to always introduce new skills/professions, and remove the oldest ones. It does suck, I myself like the Ritualist profession, but I think eventually, in some way, it's got to go -- in the name of progress.
Lonesamurai
NoChance, its been stated in many interviews that in fact they WILL add new professions in each chapter, and I've stated elsewhere how old and new chapters professions will work int he future based on the M:TG standard and how the are running the main Swiss play tournaments
Shmanka
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
I've stated elsewhere how old and new chapters professions will work int he future based on the M:TG standard and how the are running the main Swiss play tournaments
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Either way, to the people who brought up points on when I suggested rotating class' I meant it in a fashion we have seen in nightfall. You cannot create Assasins or Ritualists in NF, yet there are elite skills and non elite skills available for them.
Armor I had not even thought about.
I also realize that it is a high selling point yet how far are you going to dig this grave of unbalanced/unused/overused skills? From a PvE perspective the new environment and story line should be lucious enough to take 10 previous characters to and from, this does take work do not discount it. Although in the PvP perspective like I had said before, we are being burried alive.
Keep "good" discussion going please, ty I want Anet to look at what GWguru members think about this.
Lonesamurai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shmanka
You have alot going wrong in that statement, you have just compared a 60 card deck with 8 people. There is nothing wrong with Magic the Gathering I use to play it alot... but that basis provides nothing. Primarily it has rotating formats, online games don't like formats especially restrictive ones as such. Banned skills, newest "2 games only" formats are the most ridiculous things I have ever heard... You either got me completely misunderstood or your on planet mars.
Either way, to the people who brought up points on when I suggested rotating class' I meant it in a fashion we have seen in nightfall. You cannot create Assasins or Ritualists in NF, yet there are elite skills and non elite skills available for them. Armor I had not even thought about. I also realize that it is a high selling point yet how far are you going to dig this grave of unbalanced/unused/overused skills? From a PvE perspective the new environment and story line should be lucious enough to take 10 previous characters to and from, this does take work do not discount it. Although in the PvP perspective like I had said before, we are being burried alive. Keep "good" discussion going please, ty I want Anet to look at what GWguru members think about this. |
or is this news to you?
Ok, the way it works from what I've read and what I've been told:
Chapter 4 will have nothing for Sin and Rit in it, and taking them over there will be like taking them to Tyria...
Chapter 4 will have elites and skills for para and Derv and probably two Armour sets, as Nightfall does for Sin and Rit
For Tournament GvG, Sin and Rit will be unplayable, as like the last main tournament, only Current chapter and Core skills will be usable and if from what I've been told and from what I've read, there aren't any Rit and Sin skills, then they can't play basically.
Shmanka
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
You do realise that Mike Gills, the person ANet bought onboard to run the new torunaments, is the same guys that came up with the tournie system for M:TG and the swiss play system is how M:TG tournies work?
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Quote:
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Chapter 4 will have nothing for Sin and Rit in it, and taking them over there will be like taking them to Tyria... Chapter 4 will have elites and skills for para and Derv and probably two Armour sets, as Nightfall does for Sin and Rit |
Quote:
| For Tournament GvG, Sin and Rit will be unplayable, as like the last main tournament, only Current chapter and Core skills will be usable and if from what I've been told and from what I've read, there aren't any Rit and Sin skills, then they can't play basically. |
I wasn't trying to be offensive but these claims I need to see from a post by someone official. These statements your making can completely change the face of online competition for this game.
Kakumei
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
Ok, the way it works from what I've read and what I've been told:
Chapter 4 will have nothing for Sin and Rit in it, and taking them over there will be like taking them to Tyria... Chapter 4 will have elites and skills for para and Derv and probably two Armour sets, as Nightfall does for Sin and Rit For Tournament GvG, Sin and Rit will be unplayable, as like the last main tournament, only Current chapter and Core skills will be usable and if from what I've been told and from what I've read, there aren't any Rit and Sin skills, then they can't play basically. |
floppinghog
The way I see it, everyone's worries are based only on what they can comprehend happening.
Take for example, your in a country with a totally new government, you've only seen them handle a few situations and don't know how they will handle all the other possible ones that haven't rose to issue yet.
Now keeping that in mind, try to imagine understanding every position someone can work in at this government. Pretty overwhelming right?
Well now take that knowledge you just obtained and realize that Anet is not run by one person alone, and there are multiple teams that work fairly apart but for a common goal - to put a game together.
Same goes for governments, thats why there are departments for education, treasury, e.t.c. because it can't be handled by one team under one leader!
One person can't comprehend what a huge group of teams can accomplish if they haven't done so yet to prove it to you. Thats the just of it..
Take for example, your in a country with a totally new government, you've only seen them handle a few situations and don't know how they will handle all the other possible ones that haven't rose to issue yet.
Now keeping that in mind, try to imagine understanding every position someone can work in at this government. Pretty overwhelming right?
Well now take that knowledge you just obtained and realize that Anet is not run by one person alone, and there are multiple teams that work fairly apart but for a common goal - to put a game together.
Same goes for governments, thats why there are departments for education, treasury, e.t.c. because it can't be handled by one team under one leader!
One person can't comprehend what a huge group of teams can accomplish if they haven't done so yet to prove it to you. Thats the just of it..
Sakki
There will be new people buying chapter 4 as their first GW chapter and when they see those fancy assassins and ritualists from factions or dervishs and paragons from nightfall they will start whining why theres no special professions for their chapter.
So I guess adding more professions might be a good idea since its quite refreshing to play something different once in awhile, to get to unlock those new profession's skills and understand their functions. But too many might imbalance the game.
So I guess adding more professions might be a good idea since its quite refreshing to play something different once in awhile, to get to unlock those new profession's skills and understand their functions. But too many might imbalance the game.
Blackhearted
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
New professions are one of the reasons this game is so poorly balanced.
Hi Godmode and Paragons. |
coleslawdressin
New professions are one of the main reasons I look forward to expansions, so I would be pretty pissed if they started to recycle them already. There are still new avenues to explore for at least another chapter or two IMO. I would really expect chapter 4 to have some new hex based class. Really all they have to do is take one aspect of GW and expand on it. Example: Paragons being a showcase for a whole bunch of shout skills.
Skill balancing really seems to be cyclical too. 9 months after release, ritualists look like they are finally going to be respectable for PVP. The policy of not balancing in the middle of tournaments kind of slows down the process. Maybe things will change now that the ladder is permanent though.
Skill balancing really seems to be cyclical too. 9 months after release, ritualists look like they are finally going to be respectable for PVP. The policy of not balancing in the middle of tournaments kind of slows down the process. Maybe things will change now that the ladder is permanent though.
Xasew
They should go to 1 profession/chapter now. No new profession at all would be suicide, unless they add something *really* worth it. The game is already too much out of balance.
Godmode is Avatars.
Godmode is Avatars.
Kais Unduli
Whether the next chapter has new professions or not, I'm going to buy it anyway. I enjoy the game a lot, and I do not need new professions to tide me over. I know some people really look forward to playing new classes, but I honestly don't have the urge to do so myself. However, I think it would be a good idea for Anet to wait 2-3 months before releasing Chapter 4 as planned six months down the line. Fix the games (and skills) that are out now. Support the professions that are already out there before flooding the game with new ones.
divinechancellor
No, its the skills that keep me coming back. I like reading them and memorizing them on the wiki Sound nerdy? You probobly have a good deal memorized already
Sound nerdy? You probobly have a good deal memorized already
Narfolik
making a new chapter with core proffesions+2 new will make new players fell horrible,
example: you just buy GW, chapter 4 and make your self a WaMo, and then you realize you are 3 chapters behind(i dont have factions and i feel lousy)
make chapter 4 with six new core proffesions, factions & nightfall proffesion +2 new, so its balanced Prophecies<=>Chapter 4, afcourse everyone gets new skills, but chapter 4 core proff get them more so they can keep up with prophecies core proffs
example: you just buy GW, chapter 4 and make your self a WaMo, and then you realize you are 3 chapters behind(i dont have factions and i feel lousy)
make chapter 4 with six new core proffesions, factions & nightfall proffesion +2 new, so its balanced Prophecies<=>Chapter 4, afcourse everyone gets new skills, but chapter 4 core proff get them more so they can keep up with prophecies core proffs
King Kong Monkey
I like the idea of Chapter 4 core proffesions as long as Prophecies proffesions get new skills in Chapter 4 and new armors and ofcourse can travel there. But it will ask a lot creativity from Anet to create 6 new proffesions who really are different from the Prophecies core proffesions. If they would do that i think they need to take a little more time for Chapter 4.
But a new kind of monk should be almost the same to replace a monk. And for the players who got all the chapters untill now it won't feel new and they could lose intresting in the game. I should give those new core proffesions a other feeling when playing so exp. players keep playing Guild Wars. But then, as i said before a prophecies core could be better than its Chapter 4 "dobbleganger" and competive players won't use it and Chapter 4 only players won't come in the game.
But a new kind of monk should be almost the same to replace a monk. And for the players who got all the chapters untill now it won't feel new and they could lose intresting in the game. I should give those new core proffesions a other feeling when playing so exp. players keep playing Guild Wars. But then, as i said before a prophecies core could be better than its Chapter 4 "dobbleganger" and competive players won't use it and Chapter 4 only players won't come in the game.
freekedoutfish
We dont need new profession, we need new species. Thats where GWs gets stail. Always playing humans is boring and we need a radical change. There are countless other races we could play throughout the game, or they could make a new one. So why not?
BSSuperman
Chapter 4 ???
Sweet jesus, Ive only just started NF with My Warrior. Ive got to do it with Ele R monk Mes Assassin yet..... And Ive got a load of Factions to get thru - I just dont have enough time at the moment....
On topic - Why are you complaining about not enough for Assassins and Ritualists in NF? What does Factions have to offer for Paragons and Dervishes? Or Prophecies for Assassins, Ritualists, Paragons or Dervishes for that matter?
Sweet jesus, Ive only just started NF with My Warrior. Ive got to do it with Ele R monk Mes Assassin yet..... And Ive got a load of Factions to get thru - I just dont have enough time at the moment....
On topic - Why are you complaining about not enough for Assassins and Ritualists in NF? What does Factions have to offer for Paragons and Dervishes? Or Prophecies for Assassins, Ritualists, Paragons or Dervishes for that matter?
NoChance
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
We dont need new profession, we need new species. Thats where GWs gets stail. Always playing humans is boring and we need a radical change. There are countless other races we could play throughout the game, or they could make a new one. So why not?
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