I really think this is a way to appease everyone. I was just looking through the skill nerf list, and i felt my heart begin to sink. SoA? nerfed so it would be less imbalanced in PvP. Warrior Stances? Changed so they would be better in PvP.
I feel that many of the buffs are helpful, 'specially the sin ones, but i just feel that this would make life easier for everyone, and reduce the amont of whining...
Edit:Yes, I farm now. That is ALL I do, by the way, so this has probably affected me more then other people. Just thinking about how we could make this work i guess...
Divide PvE and PvP Skills
drakun01
Vinraith
They'd still have to buff and nerf PvE skills just to keep things interesting or the gameplay would stagnate something awful. As it stands I think they do a fine job of balancing PvP and PvE interests.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by drakun01
reduce the amont of whining...
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EVERYTHING ANET HAS EVER DONE HAS CAUSED WHINING.
No matter how positive.
Dividing the skills only gives Anet MORE WORK and creates a discontinuity and would make it even harder for PvErs to PvP and vice versa since skills do not behave the same.
Antheus
SoA and warrior stances are irrelevant in PvE. Now, SF, I'd understand, but the rest...
This wouldn't be about farming, would it?
This wouldn't be about farming, would it?
Molotovich
And ruin the fun of honest ebay sellers?
NO WAI!
I love the way they removed the evade thingie, so rangers now are forced to use their brains instead of their stances to avoid warriors.
And yeah, dividing the skill trees will completely suck, both for the PVE and PVP, and also for ANET programmers
Now I need time to see how everything is affecting all my chars.
See ya
NO WAI!
I love the way they removed the evade thingie, so rangers now are forced to use their brains instead of their stances to avoid warriors.
And yeah, dividing the skill trees will completely suck, both for the PVE and PVP, and also for ANET programmers
Now I need time to see how everything is affecting all my chars.
See ya
Wilhelm
Stupid idea, and it's easy to see why the last post under this title was locked.
The Ernada
Another episode of "When Farmers Complain"
markus_thom
But Farming does play a major role in pve for alot of people.
Bankai
Ok, because you like powerful skills, in the next chapter ANet will add pve-only skills that say "You deal 1.000.000 damage to all monsters on this map. Then you win the game" and "Your party can't die for the next 600...1800 seconds".
Yeah. They were overpowered. But think of this, they also enabled lame solo-farming. Solo-farming isn't fun. People should play with more groups of 8.
Yeah. They were overpowered. But think of this, they also enabled lame solo-farming. Solo-farming isn't fun. People should play with more groups of 8.
freekedoutfish
I absolutely agree thats its wrong that the priority on whether a skill is nerfed, always lies within PvP regardless of the effects on PvE.
If it was able to work, Im signed for splitting skills between the two. Then Anet can nerf the PvP versions all they want and not effect PvE.
How ever, I agree with another poster who said that PvE skills would still need nerfed from time to time, because Anet does occassionally make mistake when they first create them, or the game requires it.
But if they are split, then the focus would be more aimed at how the nerf would benefit PvE, NOT on how it benefits PvE alone.
So /signed if it can be done.
[Side not]
Why is everyone jumping down the OP throat and assuming he wants the skills split to benefit farming? I like the idea, but i'm not a farmer. I just hate the fact that PvP always takes priority when nerfing skills.
It does effect PvE in more ways then farming and SF is a perfect example. I can understand how its over-powered in PvP if you get a SF elemental team using it in combination. But in PvE is a god send.
Until SF was introduced, elementals had no decent elite spells. Most elemental elites had exhaustion, huge energy demans or huge recharge times on them. They didnt live up the "elite" badge, and most were no more impressive then your average normal skills.
Then we had SF, with a short recharge, low energy demand and huge damage. If that doesnt fit into what an "elite" spell should be, then I dont know what does.
But because its apparently over-powered in PvP it gets nerfed. If the spells were seperate on both sides, then we PvE'ers wouldnt have to endure the endless changes to our skills when we dont need it. We dont need these balances when fighting other humans, because we dont PvP.
If we ever need nerfs, it should be because it benefits the PvE side of it and balances the PvE playing.
If it was able to work, Im signed for splitting skills between the two. Then Anet can nerf the PvP versions all they want and not effect PvE.
How ever, I agree with another poster who said that PvE skills would still need nerfed from time to time, because Anet does occassionally make mistake when they first create them, or the game requires it.
But if they are split, then the focus would be more aimed at how the nerf would benefit PvE, NOT on how it benefits PvE alone.
So /signed if it can be done.
[Side not]
Why is everyone jumping down the OP throat and assuming he wants the skills split to benefit farming? I like the idea, but i'm not a farmer. I just hate the fact that PvP always takes priority when nerfing skills.
It does effect PvE in more ways then farming and SF is a perfect example. I can understand how its over-powered in PvP if you get a SF elemental team using it in combination. But in PvE is a god send.
Until SF was introduced, elementals had no decent elite spells. Most elemental elites had exhaustion, huge energy demans or huge recharge times on them. They didnt live up the "elite" badge, and most were no more impressive then your average normal skills.
Then we had SF, with a short recharge, low energy demand and huge damage. If that doesnt fit into what an "elite" spell should be, then I dont know what does.
But because its apparently over-powered in PvP it gets nerfed. If the spells were seperate on both sides, then we PvE'ers wouldnt have to endure the endless changes to our skills when we dont need it. We dont need these balances when fighting other humans, because we dont PvP.
If we ever need nerfs, it should be because it benefits the PvE side of it and balances the PvE playing.
Njaiguni Blaze
No, simply no.
And I like to use my PvE characters in PvP.
BTW, what's with the ZOMG BBQ NURFZ!!!? Haven't you read the buffs?
Edit: it's not like PvE got impossible by skill changes.
And I like to use my PvE characters in PvP.
BTW, what's with the ZOMG BBQ NURFZ!!!? Haven't you read the buffs?
Edit: it's not like PvE got impossible by skill changes.
Lonesamurai
Why close the thread, delete it and let it burn in forum hell
Fender
Horrible idea.
Maybe a few more PvE only skills would be fine, but for skills available in both PvE and PvP they must stay the same.
Maybe a few more PvE only skills would be fine, but for skills available in both PvE and PvP they must stay the same.
Ferret
I'm not sure it could work by having two sets of skills, but it IS annoying that PvP always takes the priority on skill nerfs.
I dont really do much PvP at all, but love the actual PvE game and the story and think this is more the point of the game, so it would be nice if PvE players were given a little more thought in skill changes.
Maybe something like what was just suggested could be the solution...a set of skills for each class type that are ONLY available to PvE and therefore would not need any (or many) changes. An example of this already exists on a VERY small scale with the 'Lightbringer' skills that have no practical use outside of Nightfall (and the laters levels at that). Bring on more of this kind of thing, but stuff that can be used for all chapters and levels.
I really dont see any reason this OP should be flamed for suggesting this. It has always been a valid point for people who prefer the PvE game. It's just that PvP'ers seem to rule the roost.
I dont really do much PvP at all, but love the actual PvE game and the story and think this is more the point of the game, so it would be nice if PvE players were given a little more thought in skill changes.
Maybe something like what was just suggested could be the solution...a set of skills for each class type that are ONLY available to PvE and therefore would not need any (or many) changes. An example of this already exists on a VERY small scale with the 'Lightbringer' skills that have no practical use outside of Nightfall (and the laters levels at that). Bring on more of this kind of thing, but stuff that can be used for all chapters and levels.
I really dont see any reason this OP should be flamed for suggesting this. It has always been a valid point for people who prefer the PvE game. It's just that PvP'ers seem to rule the roost.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ferret
I really dont see any reason this OP should be flamed for suggesting this. It has always been a valid point for people who prefer the PvE game. It's just that PvP'ers seem to rule the roost.
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God-forbid we express an opinion on something concerning PvE because PvP is more important, is the general attitude.
Bastian
In theory it is a good idea. However, in practice, it seems like it would present a couple of problems. And, I am not going to bring up things like, "I wanna bring my 1337 armor to PvP" Ever since you cannot switch armor in PvP with PvE characters, there is absolutely no difference between PvE and PvP characters except aesthetics. However, I digress:
1) PvE players would have a hard time transitioning to PvP. This would create more of a divide between the two and people wanting to get into PvP may get more discouraged by the discrepencies between builds and skills.
2) One reason we all like GW is because we get a great game at no monthly fee. By creating two different "worlds" there would probably have to be serious technological changes. This may include things like new servers. Now, I by no means understand the financial model and how effective it is for Anet, but I feel like the cost to do something like this could put more of a financial buren on Anet and that would mean increased costs to us, perhaps in the form of monthly fees or higher priced releases.
Well, those are the two biggies that I can think of. The OP has a good suggestion that has been suggested before, however, I don't feel the benefits would outweigh the negatives.
1) PvE players would have a hard time transitioning to PvP. This would create more of a divide between the two and people wanting to get into PvP may get more discouraged by the discrepencies between builds and skills.
2) One reason we all like GW is because we get a great game at no monthly fee. By creating two different "worlds" there would probably have to be serious technological changes. This may include things like new servers. Now, I by no means understand the financial model and how effective it is for Anet, but I feel like the cost to do something like this could put more of a financial buren on Anet and that would mean increased costs to us, perhaps in the form of monthly fees or higher priced releases.
Well, those are the two biggies that I can think of. The OP has a good suggestion that has been suggested before, however, I don't feel the benefits would outweigh the negatives.
Keithark
/signed
I have been thinking about this since last weekend test, I use SF all the time and it was overpowered. They reduced burning 1 sec and nerfed GG as well. This made SF less powerful but stil useable. The problem comes when they absolutely kill a skill like they did with RaO. I can still beat any mission, quest, etc with any of my characters (not counting DoA and one of the "masters" quests) So did it kill a whole character for me..no, but it did make me put away my pet until the next skill that makes him usefull comes out...except of course for bp groups. If a skill is overpowered so bad then nerf it, but don't make it useless, we already have enough useless skills. Evade and RaO nerf makes it very hard to pull out my ranger instead of tank, elly, necro, or any other class (except paragon which was killed in last nerf)
side note:
Some PvP, some PvE..one should not affect the other (skills, FoW, UW, etc)
Farming is encouraged by a-net no matter what anyone says (rare skins, greens, gold for armor, shards for armor, gemstones, all thes things must be farmed for or you will simply not have them, therefore anet has made farming part of the game by their actions)
Anti-farming msgs by PvP'rs should be ignored, they are "farming" rank, fame, glad points, etc just like PvE'rs farm gold, ecto, greens, etc
I have been thinking about this since last weekend test, I use SF all the time and it was overpowered. They reduced burning 1 sec and nerfed GG as well. This made SF less powerful but stil useable. The problem comes when they absolutely kill a skill like they did with RaO. I can still beat any mission, quest, etc with any of my characters (not counting DoA and one of the "masters" quests) So did it kill a whole character for me..no, but it did make me put away my pet until the next skill that makes him usefull comes out...except of course for bp groups. If a skill is overpowered so bad then nerf it, but don't make it useless, we already have enough useless skills. Evade and RaO nerf makes it very hard to pull out my ranger instead of tank, elly, necro, or any other class (except paragon which was killed in last nerf)
side note:
Some PvP, some PvE..one should not affect the other (skills, FoW, UW, etc)
Farming is encouraged by a-net no matter what anyone says (rare skins, greens, gold for armor, shards for armor, gemstones, all thes things must be farmed for or you will simply not have them, therefore anet has made farming part of the game by their actions)
Anti-farming msgs by PvP'rs should be ignored, they are "farming" rank, fame, glad points, etc just like PvE'rs farm gold, ecto, greens, etc
Njaiguni Blaze
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bastian
And, I am not going to bring up things like, "I wanna bring my 1337 armor to PvP" Ever since you cannot switch armor in PvP with PvE characters, there is absolutely no difference between PvE and PvP characters except aesthetics.
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Njaiguni Blaze
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Keithark
The problem comes when they absolutely kill a skill like they did with RaO.
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Bastian
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze
Well, it's more because I have eight PvE characters and 1 PvP slot which is usually a Warrior or for any build that I can't make with my PvE's. This way I can quickly switch to another character and get a build from my templates. Would be a shame if I'd have to delete those characters. Also, you can't switch armor with PvP characters either.
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Njaiguni Blaze
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bastian
I think we agree here. I'm not sure what you are getting at, but the templates make it so only 1 PvP slot is really ever needed. Additionally, I know that PvP characters can't switch armor. However, in the past, PvE characters had an advantage there because they could. That meant, you could bring energy armor and health armor. Or a superior headpiece and a minor headpiece. This way you could maximize your efficiency, health, and energy no matter what DP you were at. Since this has been changed so that you cannot armor swap, the only difference between the two characters is purely aesthetic.
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twicky_kid
People have have been asking this since the conception of GW.
Don't hold your breathe.
Don't hold your breathe.
Nucflash
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bankai
Yeah. They were overpowered. But think of this, they also enabled lame solo-farming. Solo-farming isn't fun. People should play with more groups of 8.
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Deagol
No way. That the skills are designed for (and balanced for) PvP is what makes PvE in Guild Wars so much better than in other games. There are some exceptions, but we should get less of them, not more.
I play PvE almost exclusivey, and never farm. That is just boring. I play the storyline, do quests, and explore.
I play PvE almost exclusivey, and never farm. That is just boring. I play the storyline, do quests, and explore.
Lonesamurai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deagol
No way. That the skills are designed for (and balanced for) PvP is what makes PvE in Guild Wars so much better than in other games. There are some exceptions, but we should get less of them, not more.
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drakun01
Farming is the only thing I have to do, unless I want to sit around farming fame in HA. I love to farm not because of the loot (nice side effect though) but because I want to farm things that people have never done before. All of my money goes towards new skills.
SpeedyKQ
/not signed
I'm a big fan of PVE'ers not being forced to PVP and vice versa, but the two should still be the same game. Nobody should have to learn two sets of skills if they want to play both.
I'm a big fan of PVE'ers not being forced to PVP and vice versa, but the two should still be the same game. Nobody should have to learn two sets of skills if they want to play both.
Aeon_Xin
/unsigned for the record
Anet has, from the start, worked to equalize PvP and PvE, within reason, and for a reason. They've also frowned on professional farmers from the start.
Anet has, from the start, worked to equalize PvP and PvE, within reason, and for a reason. They've also frowned on professional farmers from the start.
Grais
I PvE exclusively, and I think this is a lame idea.
Quit worrying about your precious skills getting nerfed and learn how to play the game, with more than one build.
I could care less how they buff, nerf, or whatever they want to do.
Hell if ANet removed my most favorite skill or spell(not that I really even have one/any), I could care less. I figure they have valid reasons for doing what they do, and I dont spend a lot of time second guessing their decisions.
Change up your build, try to enjoy the fact that you are playing a game that is constanly evolving.
Quit asking 'why did Anet do this to me ?', and go out and do something for yourself, ie:find a better way to accomplish what you want, find something no one else has, who knows, you might just discover the next big thing in builds ??
That is where I think the strength of the game lies, and for those not realising it, I kinda feel sorry for em.
In closing I am not trying to flame anyone, the OP has his/her reasons for the way he/she feels, and they are just as valid as my reasons for the way I feel. Clearly a difference of opinion, but thats all right.
Quit worrying about your precious skills getting nerfed and learn how to play the game, with more than one build.
I could care less how they buff, nerf, or whatever they want to do.
Hell if ANet removed my most favorite skill or spell(not that I really even have one/any), I could care less. I figure they have valid reasons for doing what they do, and I dont spend a lot of time second guessing their decisions.
Change up your build, try to enjoy the fact that you are playing a game that is constanly evolving.
Quit asking 'why did Anet do this to me ?', and go out and do something for yourself, ie:find a better way to accomplish what you want, find something no one else has, who knows, you might just discover the next big thing in builds ??
That is where I think the strength of the game lies, and for those not realising it, I kinda feel sorry for em.
In closing I am not trying to flame anyone, the OP has his/her reasons for the way he/she feels, and they are just as valid as my reasons for the way I feel. Clearly a difference of opinion, but thats all right.
Quest_techie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bankai
Ok, because you like powerful skills, in the next chapter ANet will add pve-only skills that say "You deal 1.000.000 damage to all monsters on this map. Then you win the game" and "Your party can't die for the next 600...1800 seconds".
Yeah. They were overpowered. But think of this, they also enabled lame solo-farming. Solo-farming isn't fun. People should play with more groups of 8. |
edit: I also think that making pve skills independant of pvp skills is somewhat lame, I have had problems with some nice balance being tweaked because of them, but I also know they have had problems with some nice skills being tweaked because of us
vaxmor
the suggestion is to skill balance, is to double the number of skillz in GW? lol
MithranArkanere
Well, remember that some nerfs are not due PvP, some are due to 'abuse' in PvE (to much easy farming, hee hee)
Its easier to weaken monsters than making skills act diferently in PvP and PvE. Remember that the nerfs affect the normal skills the monsters have. They get skill changes too!
Anytime I leave the game for a week or a month, I notice some monsters are a bit weaker... when I came back to all Prophecies areas with the same Build I've been using since my character first got to Ember Camp (and I keep using it fro most PvE since then, Lich, Glinth, Kuunavagh, Shiro, Varesh and Abaddon killed by the same build, yay!), I found that monsters died faster... and, even acting more 'smartly' scaping from some traps and not falling in surround manouvers, they kept diying faster than when I played long time ago.
No changes in my build, no changes in my armor (Krytan bought long time ago in my fisrt trip to Cantha) no changes in my equipment, not even using my heroes, I dealt the same ammount of damage (a monster who took 50 from a flare kept taking that damage)... All the same, they die faster... I got better? Impossible, since when I notice that is after staying away from the game for some time...
There is only one possible answer left: they have less Health.
Alas, is not fair to make people learn how to use again all the skills to play in PvP, I can get o PvP and plan my skills according to the skill I always use. And I must say It works nice for me (More than once I got lucky with my build and the enemy needed 5 people to take me down, it's funny kill two of them, then 3, an then looking them gtting angry, gather and join to kill just one poor little girl, XD)
Its easier to weaken monsters than making skills act diferently in PvP and PvE. Remember that the nerfs affect the normal skills the monsters have. They get skill changes too!
Anytime I leave the game for a week or a month, I notice some monsters are a bit weaker... when I came back to all Prophecies areas with the same Build I've been using since my character first got to Ember Camp (and I keep using it fro most PvE since then, Lich, Glinth, Kuunavagh, Shiro, Varesh and Abaddon killed by the same build, yay!), I found that monsters died faster... and, even acting more 'smartly' scaping from some traps and not falling in surround manouvers, they kept diying faster than when I played long time ago.
No changes in my build, no changes in my armor (Krytan bought long time ago in my fisrt trip to Cantha) no changes in my equipment, not even using my heroes, I dealt the same ammount of damage (a monster who took 50 from a flare kept taking that damage)... All the same, they die faster... I got better? Impossible, since when I notice that is after staying away from the game for some time...
There is only one possible answer left: they have less Health.
Alas, is not fair to make people learn how to use again all the skills to play in PvP, I can get o PvP and plan my skills according to the skill I always use. And I must say It works nice for me (More than once I got lucky with my build and the enemy needed 5 people to take me down, it's funny kill two of them, then 3, an then looking them gtting angry, gather and join to kill just one poor little girl, XD)
CagedinSanity
I personally don't like PvP characters. no effort is put into them, they have no life, no personality. You just create them at max level and pop whatever stats you want into them. Ew.
So I often use max PvE characters in scrimmages, GvG, AB's, and others. I don't think the systems should be seperated.
So I often use max PvE characters in scrimmages, GvG, AB's, and others. I don't think the systems should be seperated.
Phoenix Ex
/signed. Of course the skills on PvE chars should auto change to PvP version if a person brings the char into a PvP arena.
After the last update and having a casual guildie literally BEGGING me for money cuz he isn't doing anything significant with his shoutagon and another asking for 2 platinum so that he can replace his jagged bone minion master.....I think I support this much much more...totally underestimated the amount of totally broke people who plays 20min a day way lol.
After the last update and having a casual guildie literally BEGGING me for money cuz he isn't doing anything significant with his shoutagon and another asking for 2 platinum so that he can replace his jagged bone minion master.....I think I support this much much more...totally underestimated the amount of totally broke people who plays 20min a day way lol.
Phoenix Ex
/signed. Of course the skills on PvE chars should auto change to PvP version if a person brings the char into a PvP arena.
After the last update and having a casual guildie literally BEGGING me for money cuz he isn't doing anything significant with his shoutagon and another asking for 2 platinum so that he can replace his jagged bone minion master.....I think I support this much much more...totally underestimated the amount of totally broke people who plays 20min a day way lol.
After the last update and having a casual guildie literally BEGGING me for money cuz he isn't doing anything significant with his shoutagon and another asking for 2 platinum so that he can replace his jagged bone minion master.....I think I support this much much more...totally underestimated the amount of totally broke people who plays 20min a day way lol.
Phoenix Ex
/signed. Of course the skills on PvE chars should auto change to PvP version if a person brings the char into a PvP arena.
After the last update and having a casual guildie literally BEGGING me for money cuz he isn't doing anything significant with his shoutagon and another asking for 2 platinum so that he can replace his jagged bone minion master.....I think I support this much much more...totally underestimated the amount of totally broke people who plays 20min a day way lol.
After the last update and having a casual guildie literally BEGGING me for money cuz he isn't doing anything significant with his shoutagon and another asking for 2 platinum so that he can replace his jagged bone minion master.....I think I support this much much more...totally underestimated the amount of totally broke people who plays 20min a day way lol.
Vinraith
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deagol
No way. That the skills are designed for (and balanced for) PvP is what makes PvE in Guild Wars so much better than in other games. There are some exceptions, but we should get less of them, not more.
I play PvE almost exclusivey, and never farm. That is just boring. I play the storyline, do quests, and explore. |
/not signed
Maikar
I pretty exclusively play PvE except for when I need a skill unlocked. I do think it's kinda bogus that we get skills nerfed/buffed because of PvP, however PvE is NOT the realm that decides how will skills work with/against each other. PvP ONLY puts builds against each other, where as in PvE you're dealing with other factors as well. Besides, we're not the only ones getting nerfed/buffed. The mobs use the exact same skills as we do, with the exception of the monster-only skills.
/not signed
/not signed
Fender
bad idea, never gonna happen
Amity and Truth
While this is a bad idea, forcing the whims of the PVP crowd onto the PVE Players is just as much a bad idea. As it is, A-Net primarily caters to the PVP crowd while keeping the PVE Horde fed on a minimum as Moneycows to pay for the PVP Players. Whenever a PVP Player is not satisfied, the PVE Player has to suck it up. Whenever a PVE Player is not satisfied, he is considered to be a whining noob.
This schizophrenia in the business model and the community disgruntles those players that enjoy a good PVE experience. A fix to this situation would be needed but is very unlikely to happen.
This schizophrenia in the business model and the community disgruntles those players that enjoy a good PVE experience. A fix to this situation would be needed but is very unlikely to happen.