I've started an MM in NightFall and although I'm doing OK (I'm level 15 atm) I just wondered if I'm doing it properly. When it's kicking off, I just stream new minions out, regardless of whether I need to. I have soul reaping pretty high, so I've more than enough energy to do this, but I feel it's a waste of energy.
So what I want to know is, as an MM should I just spam minions or try to keep an eye on the current health of my flock? This is easier said than done in the heat of battle, which is why I've not been doing so atm. Am I doing OK the way I am (I can keep 8 up 95% of the time atm) or should I manage it a bit more.
Ta very glad.
Help out a newbie minion master ...
Vandal2k6
Naliah Alexis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal2k6
I've started an MM in NightFall and although I'm doing OK (I'm level 15 atm) I just wondered if I'm doing it properly. When it's kicking off, I just stream new minions out, regardless of whether I need to. I have soul reaping pretty high, so I've more than enough energy to do this, but I feel it's a waste of energy.
So what I want to know is, as an MM should I just spam minions or try to keep an eye on the current health of my flock? This is easier said than done in the heat of battle, which is why I've not been doing so atm. Am I doing OK the way I am (I can keep 8 up 95% of the time atm) or should I manage it a bit more.
Ta very glad. There really isnt a right or wrong answer in playing a MM. It's all up to personal preference. If you feel comfortable doing it the way you are now stick to it. I myself have an MM with Bone Horror, Fiend and Golem [E], if there are fresh bodies available I usually spam my animate spells cause like you, I have a high soul reaping and always have enough energy to do so. Unless of course there's two MM's or another character that uses corpse exploitation then I usually tone down the spam so I can let them share the bodies.
If you can keep up 8 minions 95% of the time, then you're doing a very good job. Keep up the good work!
So what I want to know is, as an MM should I just spam minions or try to keep an eye on the current health of my flock? This is easier said than done in the heat of battle, which is why I've not been doing so atm. Am I doing OK the way I am (I can keep 8 up 95% of the time atm) or should I manage it a bit more.
Ta very glad. There really isnt a right or wrong answer in playing a MM. It's all up to personal preference. If you feel comfortable doing it the way you are now stick to it. I myself have an MM with Bone Horror, Fiend and Golem [E], if there are fresh bodies available I usually spam my animate spells cause like you, I have a high soul reaping and always have enough energy to do so. Unless of course there's two MM's or another character that uses corpse exploitation then I usually tone down the spam so I can let them share the bodies.
If you can keep up 8 minions 95% of the time, then you're doing a very good job. Keep up the good work!
zwei2stein
Keep raining new minions.
Fresh minions have minimal health degen, max health and no conditions/hexes on them so they are easier to maintain in battle, if they replace old minion you get part of energy back from soul reaping from old minion dying.
Game usually replaces weakest (least health and/or most degen) minion, so you usualy get maximum profit from it.
So, simply:
Raising new bone fiend with max minions is equal to:
* Lowering degen of one minion to -1.
* Healing it to max health.
* Removign all condtiond from it.
* Removing all hexes from it.
* Teleporting it closer to battefiled.
* Clearing any aggro on it.
* Having effective discount on that spell worth of your soulreaping investment.
Pretty neat, eh?
Fresh minions have minimal health degen, max health and no conditions/hexes on them so they are easier to maintain in battle, if they replace old minion you get part of energy back from soul reaping from old minion dying.
Game usually replaces weakest (least health and/or most degen) minion, so you usualy get maximum profit from it.
So, simply:
Raising new bone fiend with max minions is equal to:
* Lowering degen of one minion to -1.
* Healing it to max health.
* Removign all condtiond from it.
* Removing all hexes from it.
* Teleporting it closer to battefiled.
* Clearing any aggro on it.
* Having effective discount on that spell worth of your soulreaping investment.
Pretty neat, eh?
Cebe
The only thing you would have to take into account is sometimes there are not always enough bodies to make new minions all the time...and sometimes it will be necessary to keep them alive a little longer than their normal lifespan in order to keep them with you... I'm thinking of a mission like Dasha Vestibule...a bit of an extreme example maybe, but the only things which leave exploitable corpses there are the Roaring Ethers...and there aren't many of them, so it may be a good idea to try to keep your minions alive as much as possible instead of relying on there being enough bodies to replace them with then they die. If you can master both ways of playing an MM you will be more flexible when it comes to future missions.
zwei2stein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
...so it may be a good idea to try to keep your minions alive as much as possible instead of relying on there being enough bodies to replace them with then they die. ...
It is good idea to spam blood of master even if you are in copse rich area too...
you want to be able to keep your army in good strength duing whole fight and you want to keep numbers up when you move between encounters.
---
If you are fighting in corpse free area like mentioned mission, your best bet is NOT to bring MM build ...
you want to be able to keep your army in good strength duing whole fight and you want to keep numbers up when you move between encounters.
---
If you are fighting in corpse free area like mentioned mission, your best bet is NOT to bring MM build ...
Vandal2k6
Cheers for the answers
I do spam BoTM all the time too, but it's a pain with the -HP hit. I've just been looking on GuildWiki for an alternative to keeping the minions alive. Is there one that doesn't have such a big side-effect as BoTM?
Quote:
I do spam BoTM all the time too, but it's a pain with the -HP hit. I've just been looking on GuildWiki for an alternative to keeping the minions alive. Is there one that doesn't have such a big side-effect as BoTM?
Quote:
silara_jorinset
Order necros are necros that use the 'order' spells (e.g. order of pain, order of the vampire etc) to provide partywide support as the order spells usually give bonuses to the entire party. Specialising in blood magic, they often also carry blood ritual and/or blood is power to give energy support to important casters (e.g. monks) as well other offensive skills. Definetely viable in other pve areas, especially high end missions and such to give party support.
Lilith St Cyr
Healing circle in addition to blood of the master. Keeps you health up nicely, & once minions stop attacking they gather around you.
xundeadx
Always spam minions,BotM and Verata's sacrifice!when it recharge!You have
plenty of energy when minions die.With soul reaping 8+1 or 9+1.I use 8+1 and
i never ran out of energy.
Good job!
plenty of energy when minions die.With soul reaping 8+1 or 9+1.I use 8+1 and
i never ran out of energy.
Good job!
tijo
If you have the room on your skill bar, you might want to bring taste of death but remember never to use it unless theres an emergency(you just finished spaming BotM, your health is low, aggro breaks and enemies start attacking you, mostly happnes when you're with a small farming group). Since ToD has a very low casting time its useful to save you from death. Killing one minion is something you normally dont do, but killing 1 is better than having 10 start attacking your party. If you are playing with ppl u know you probably wont need it but saved my MM a couple of times while i was farming sf with strangers.
I also agree with the fact that you should make new minions as soon as you can, its a lot easier than trying to maintain the old ones alive.
I also agree with the fact that you should make new minions as soon as you can, its a lot easier than trying to maintain the old ones alive.
Dutch Masterr
like some others said, there is no "correct" way to run a mm. but there are some general rules/tips to follow.....
first of all, it helps ALOT to start being a mm only after you have reached level 20...not saying it cant be done though...obviously.
if you are using blood of the master (which you ALWAYS should), have a way to heal yourself and dont rely on the monk. MMs should never need a monks help unless you are in trouble because you have not raised your minions yet. if you have minions up, there is no reason you should die (in pve, pvp is different). dark bond negates 75% of damage and directs it to closest minion so that helps alot. make new minions whenever you can, and if at 10 minions, raising another will kill the one with the least health.
use max level minions...including superior death rune and death face scar!
for elites there are generally three choices--flesh golem, aura of the lich and jagged bones. flesh golem does high damage and gives you a constant corpse. aura of the lich lets you take half damage and you sac less health with blood of the master. jagged bones gives you a constant supply of minions.....all are good.
first of all, it helps ALOT to start being a mm only after you have reached level 20...not saying it cant be done though...obviously.
if you are using blood of the master (which you ALWAYS should), have a way to heal yourself and dont rely on the monk. MMs should never need a monks help unless you are in trouble because you have not raised your minions yet. if you have minions up, there is no reason you should die (in pve, pvp is different). dark bond negates 75% of damage and directs it to closest minion so that helps alot. make new minions whenever you can, and if at 10 minions, raising another will kill the one with the least health.
use max level minions...including superior death rune and death face scar!
for elites there are generally three choices--flesh golem, aura of the lich and jagged bones. flesh golem does high damage and gives you a constant corpse. aura of the lich lets you take half damage and you sac less health with blood of the master. jagged bones gives you a constant supply of minions.....all are good.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal2k6
I've started an MM
theres your problem. try learning a few builds instead of running a build that can at times be completely useless. necros are very versatile. MMing takes almost no skill and can be done with your eyes shut, go try out SS and then ask some questions.
not to sound mean.
not to sound mean.
Griff Mon
Max out your death magic and get a Superior Death Magic Rune for your head piece. A level 26 Flesh Golem is something to be feared in any fight. BOTM is good and if you are running a monk secondary, I keep healing breeze up to compensate for the spamming of BOTM. For solo farming I bring along some good Death degen and attack like Rotting Flesh and Deathly Swarm. With your Death Magic maxed out they are very powerful. I usually do not bring Verata's as it is not as powerful as it used to be. If you have a lot of bodies you can exploit then use Heal Area -on the downside it increases the degen of your minions and heals enemies in the immediate area, and on the upside it heals you as well. Use it only in an emergency.
Spellforge
"Order of Undead" is another elite worth considering.
I usually bring vampiric horrors aswell. They don't make up the bulk of my minions but having 2 or 3 in a battle will help offset the health sacs of BoTM and OoU
I usually bring vampiric horrors aswell. They don't make up the bulk of my minions but having 2 or 3 in a battle will help offset the health sacs of BoTM and OoU
strcpy
You have already gotten the advice I would give, but I will re-iterate it as another voice.
New minions are nice and unless there is a reason not to I raise them as often as I can. I use BotM when I can according to my health and usually carry Verata's (though it isn't nearly as good as it used to be).
I would note that I never play in a two corpse exploitation party - I am purely a hench/hero player and can control what is brought quite well without feeling like I am screwing someone. Be careful there as you need to spread the corpses out between you and BotM can be BAD.
However, for my AI MM's I almost never bring BotM. I use Jagged Bones to keep the army up as they tend to keep a decent army up better - even with the recent nerf. Plus they can be bad about saccing them selfs to death. They replace ones they can not save quite well and no worry about them killing themselfs.
New minions are nice and unless there is a reason not to I raise them as often as I can. I use BotM when I can according to my health and usually carry Verata's (though it isn't nearly as good as it used to be).
I would note that I never play in a two corpse exploitation party - I am purely a hench/hero player and can control what is brought quite well without feeling like I am screwing someone. Be careful there as you need to spread the corpses out between you and BotM can be BAD.
However, for my AI MM's I almost never bring BotM. I use Jagged Bones to keep the army up as they tend to keep a decent army up better - even with the recent nerf. Plus they can be bad about saccing them selfs to death. They replace ones they can not save quite well and no worry about them killing themselfs.
Tyrnne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff Mon
A level 26 Flesh Golem is something to be feared in any fight.
Very true, but the poster is starting out in Nightfall and you can only get the Flesh Golem skill in Factions. So if you have that chapter, starting your MM there is probably easiest although you won't get to capture the elite skill (at least not by direct route) until you get to Senji's Corner.
I started out my MM as a curses/blood necro. This gives you more flexibility until you get to level 20 and can make a decent MM. I'd also avoid the negative health runes until you're up near level 20 as the health hit will hurt you at low levels.
I guess the best curses/blood necro is the SS variety, but you usually have to progress to the Iron Mines mission in Prophecies to capture the Spiteful Spirit skill. The skill is only available in Prophecies as far as I know.
Since there is no longer a penalty for juggling your attribute allocation, you can try all sorts of different builds. Just make sure you use the save feature so you can switch builds back and forth easily.
I started out my MM as a curses/blood necro. This gives you more flexibility until you get to level 20 and can make a decent MM. I'd also avoid the negative health runes until you're up near level 20 as the health hit will hurt you at low levels.
I guess the best curses/blood necro is the SS variety, but you usually have to progress to the Iron Mines mission in Prophecies to capture the Spiteful Spirit skill. The skill is only available in Prophecies as far as I know.
Since there is no longer a penalty for juggling your attribute allocation, you can try all sorts of different builds. Just make sure you use the save feature so you can switch builds back and forth easily.
tijo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff Mon
use Heal Area -on the downside it increases the degen of your minions and heals enemies in the immediate area, and on the upside it heals you as well. Use it only in an emergency.
True Heal Area heals enemies but it doesn't increase your minion's health degeneration more than usual the normal rate. I've seen no noticeable difference while i was using Heal Area and i was not and according to wiki :"Contrary to some rumors, healing a minion with a Healing Prayers skill does not increase its degeneration."
Dutch Masterr
like someone else said, dont make a pve necro to only play as a mm. necros are generally needed in pve as SS nuker, SV necro, MM, BiP or support wells. it all depends what mission/area you are in. if you are in an area with no corpses (which there are many), you would go as SS or BiP. if you are in a very high-level area, SV might be a good choice. and of course where there will be plenty of corpses, either play offensivley as a MM or defensivley as a support/well necro.
obviously there are other elites and builds a necro is good for, but those i listed are the ones that are usually most nedded.
obviously there are other elites and builds a necro is good for, but those i listed are the ones that are usually most nedded.
Pick Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr
like someone else said, dont make a pve necro to only play as a mm. necros are generally needed in pve as SS nuker, SV necro, MM, BiP or support wells. it all depends what mission/area you are in. if you are in an area with no corpses (which there are many), you would go as SS or BiP. if you are in a very high-level area, SV might be a good choice. and of course where there will be plenty of corpses, either play offensivley as a MM or defensivley as a support/well necro.
obviously there are other elites and builds a necro is good for, but those i listed are the ones that are usually most nedded. SS is assuming he has Prophecies.
SV is assuming he has Factions.
Blood Is Power may be nice, but I don't know where in Elona it is. Besides, if you are in a group that really needs BiP, I'm not that far into NF so I don't know if you need it or not, you may be in trouble. I know from experience, that in the other campaigns BiPs are not necessary at all. If it is necessary in NF, that will be the first time for me to see it.
Good non-elite curses:
Mark of Pain
Parasitic bond
Suffering
Faintheartedness
Good non-elite death magic:
Animate Bone Fiend
Animate Bone Minion
Blood Of The Master
Death nova
Taste of death
Good non-elite blood magic:
Life siphon
Well of blood
Vampiric gaze
Others are good, like Death Pact, but unnecessary as a support caster.
Anyway, you asked about MMing...
Do not waste corpses. If you are lvl 15, and have high Soul Reaping, you then have low Death Magic. DM sets limits to the effectiveness of your minions and how many you can control. The limit is 2 + 1/2lvls in DM. So at lvl 0 you can control 2. At lvl 2, you can control 3, etc.
Spamming Animates is not good as it removes corpses and drains your energy. Not to mention people may have to wait for you to finish animating.
Heal your minions every so often during battle until you see a corpse. Animate 1 corpse, but DN your minions, so you can watch it explode when you create a new minion and your old one dies.
It is better to heal than just let them die. As said before, corpses may not be available and the more minions you have, the better the party will be.
obviously there are other elites and builds a necro is good for, but those i listed are the ones that are usually most nedded. SS is assuming he has Prophecies.
SV is assuming he has Factions.
Blood Is Power may be nice, but I don't know where in Elona it is. Besides, if you are in a group that really needs BiP, I'm not that far into NF so I don't know if you need it or not, you may be in trouble. I know from experience, that in the other campaigns BiPs are not necessary at all. If it is necessary in NF, that will be the first time for me to see it.
Good non-elite curses:
Mark of Pain
Parasitic bond
Suffering
Faintheartedness
Good non-elite death magic:
Animate Bone Fiend
Animate Bone Minion
Blood Of The Master
Death nova
Taste of death
Good non-elite blood magic:
Life siphon
Well of blood
Vampiric gaze
Others are good, like Death Pact, but unnecessary as a support caster.
Anyway, you asked about MMing...
Do not waste corpses. If you are lvl 15, and have high Soul Reaping, you then have low Death Magic. DM sets limits to the effectiveness of your minions and how many you can control. The limit is 2 + 1/2lvls in DM. So at lvl 0 you can control 2. At lvl 2, you can control 3, etc.
Spamming Animates is not good as it removes corpses and drains your energy. Not to mention people may have to wait for you to finish animating.
Heal your minions every so often during battle until you see a corpse. Animate 1 corpse, but DN your minions, so you can watch it explode when you create a new minion and your old one dies.
It is better to heal than just let them die. As said before, corpses may not be available and the more minions you have, the better the party will be.
Emik
Blood is Power can be capped just outside Chantry of Secrets...
Forgot his name... A lieutenant or something (Kournan)
It's true that playing MM in corpseheavy areas is a breeze, so in that pov i'd suggest go with Coloneh and try out some other builds too.
There's loads of pressure Death Magic builds that combine well with Curses.
Discord Hexer for instance.
As to MM'ing itself. I always found that keeping an army alive was more impressive than having healthy ones but that was before the minionlimit and Verata's Sacrifice were nerfed (oh how i miss 70 minions trailing behind me)
More on topic. I'll agree with Pick Me here and say you need to rather up your Death Magic attribute to 16 so you at least have a good army with decent damage potential.
Forgot his name... A lieutenant or something (Kournan)
It's true that playing MM in corpseheavy areas is a breeze, so in that pov i'd suggest go with Coloneh and try out some other builds too.
There's loads of pressure Death Magic builds that combine well with Curses.
Discord Hexer for instance.
As to MM'ing itself. I always found that keeping an army alive was more impressive than having healthy ones but that was before the minionlimit and Verata's Sacrifice were nerfed (oh how i miss 70 minions trailing behind me)
More on topic. I'll agree with Pick Me here and say you need to rather up your Death Magic attribute to 16 so you at least have a good army with decent damage potential.
crosshatch123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff Mon
Max out your death magic and get a Superior Death Magic Rune for your head piece. A level 26 Flesh Golem is something to be feared in any fight. BOTM is good and if you are running a monk secondary, I keep healing breeze up to compensate for the spamming of BOTM. For solo farming I bring along some good Death degen and attack like Rotting Flesh and Deathly Swarm. With your Death Magic maxed out they are very powerful. I usually do not bring Verata's as it is not as powerful as it used to be. If you have a lot of bodies you can exploit then use Heal Area -on the downside it increases the degen of your minions and heals enemies in the immediate area, and on the upside it heals you as well. Use it only in an emergency.
what u mean with that? So if u heal your minions. They have -1 degen?
what u mean with that? So if u heal your minions. They have -1 degen?
Pick Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshatch123
what u mean with that? So if u heal your minions. They have -1 degen?
What he means is the longer a minion exists the more health degen it incurs. The magic that animates it starts to weaken, so the minion starts to lose health faster as time moves on.
Eventually it will reach -10 health degen even if you have healing breeze, mending, watchful spirit and recouperation. The longer the minion lasts, the more it will start to degenerate.
Eventually it will reach -10 health degen even if you have healing breeze, mending, watchful spirit and recouperation. The longer the minion lasts, the more it will start to degenerate.
crosshatch123
O, ok. Thnx, Just wondered, Cause I was thinking of creating my own MM tomorrow (now stuck on my dads slow computer). Just recently started PvE , I'm playing 4 PvE Characters at the same time ^^
Pick Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosshatch123
O, ok. Thnx, Just wondered, Cause I was thinking of creating my own MM tomorrow (now stuck on my dads slow computer). Just recently started PvE , I'm playing 4 PvE Characters at the same time ^^
Nice. Not to brag or anything, but I have 9 on the go. ><
Creating a Necromancer should not be for a MM. MMing should start around lvl 17 or higher. Not enough attribute points to make a good MM, and your skills are almost non-existant.
Test your necro with blood, then curses, then by 17th or so lvl, then try death magic.
Good luck and have fun.
Creating a Necromancer should not be for a MM. MMing should start around lvl 17 or higher. Not enough attribute points to make a good MM, and your skills are almost non-existant.
Test your necro with blood, then curses, then by 17th or so lvl, then try death magic.
Good luck and have fun.
jesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff Mon
A level 26 Flesh Golem is something to be feared in any fight. BOTM is good and if you are running a monk secondary, I keep healing breeze up to compensate for the spamming of BOTM. For solo farming I bring along some good Death degen and attack like Rotting Flesh and Deathly Swarm. With your Death Magic maxed out they are very powerful. I usually do not bring Verata's as it is not as powerful as it used to be. If you have a lot of bodies you can exploit then use Heal Area -on the downside it increases the degen of your minions and heals enemies in the immediate area, and on the upside it heals you as well. Use it only in an emergency.
Flesh Golems are to be feared? They attack once every 3 seconds and lag 10 seconds behind your group. A bone fiend does more damage. They're worthless except as a reusable corpse.
Healing Breeze is a waste of a slot, and so is Heal Area. BoTM is all you need, and Taste of Pain/Signet of Lost souls is enough healing with Dark Bond on.
Heal Area is a good spell, but worthless on a MM who can't keep track of where monsters are located, and can't kite because they can't stop pressing that animate button.
Now. Order of Undeath is a very potent skill, and luckily since you have Nightfall, you're heading towards it. With the changes to Jagged Bones, I feel it's one of the only viable options for a minion master. Another option is Icy Veins.
Healing Breeze is a waste of a slot, and so is Heal Area. BoTM is all you need, and Taste of Pain/Signet of Lost souls is enough healing with Dark Bond on.
Heal Area is a good spell, but worthless on a MM who can't keep track of where monsters are located, and can't kite because they can't stop pressing that animate button.
Now. Order of Undeath is a very potent skill, and luckily since you have Nightfall, you're heading towards it. With the changes to Jagged Bones, I feel it's one of the only viable options for a minion master. Another option is Icy Veins.
Dutch Masterr
i see the flesh golem hit for 120+ damage on low and high armor targets alike..
crosshatch123
I was wondering about the elite I should take too, if its true what Dutch master says (120 dmg), then a Fleshie ([skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill]) is a good elite right? and less Energy than a Bonefiend. But on the other hand, fiends can attack at range. So both are good to have in your build.
I dont think [skill]Order of Undeath[/skill] is a good choise, it costs 10 energy for 5 seconds, and its a 10% sac (and an additional 2% for each minion). While you allready have BotM as a sac in your build.
btw, I was allready thinking myself if I should take Healing circle. But that forces you to put points in heal. So is it better to make death 16 and soul reaping 12/13 and place signet of lost souls instead of healing circle?
Cross
I dont think [skill]Order of Undeath[/skill] is a good choise, it costs 10 energy for 5 seconds, and its a 10% sac (and an additional 2% for each minion). While you allready have BotM as a sac in your build.
btw, I was allready thinking myself if I should take Healing circle. But that forces you to put points in heal. So is it better to make death 16 and soul reaping 12/13 and place signet of lost souls instead of healing circle?
Cross
Cathode_Reborn
If you ask for advice on MM'ing, I guarantee you everyone will be tellin you pretty much the same thing. "Go N/Mo, use Flesh Golem and Heal Area."
Besides it's slow attack rate, it's a melee minion. Melee minions are pretty slow, and sometimes takes a short while to find a target and start attacking.
Heal Area can be good, but can be horrible too. Melee minions are obviously rarely gonna be in range to be healed with this. Newly raised minions will also usually be out of range. Another reason why I wouldn't use it is cause it's 10 energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal2k6
Besides it's slow attack rate, it's a melee minion. Melee minions are pretty slow, and sometimes takes a short while to find a target and start attacking.
Heal Area can be good, but can be horrible too. Melee minions are obviously rarely gonna be in range to be healed with this. Newly raised minions will also usually be out of range. Another reason why I wouldn't use it is cause it's 10 energy.
Quote:
Possibly one of the least used yet best MM elite. Besides being used on Dark Aura necros (a build completely unrelated to MM'ing), it can be used on an MM with great results. It's common for people to wear multiple superior runes to lower your health and sac less from BotM. This elite does that for you, and also makes you take half damage. More importantly, this halves the cost of sacrifices.....
...My nec has 441hp...1 sup + major. He sacs about 120hp using BotM with 10 minions. With AotL active, I sac a mere 30hp. Heal Area becomes useless when using this elite, because you barely sac any hp at all, meaning you can rely on cheaper sources of healing. Blood Renewal is common with this elite, cause the sacrifice from it is also reduced by AotL.
Quote:
Quote:
I've been using it after the buff, and it is indeed a very good elite on a MM. Good for generating corpses when you have no minions, and a nice extra damage when you have 10 minions.|
Originally Posted by crosshatch123
I dont think [skill]Order of Undeath[/skill] is a good choise, it costs 10 energy for 5 seconds, and its a 10% sac (and an additional 2% for each minion). While you allready have BotM as a sac in your build.
I think this is the only MM elite that requires abit of thinking, timing, and practice. In the hands of a master, this just might be the best MM elite out there. It's extremely damaging, and can mow down any mob very fast. It isn't bad choice just cause it makes you sac alot. Using this elite means you can't lazily spam and hit your Animate + BotM keys.
BladeDVD
When I used to use Heal Area (or Karei's Healing Circle) as a MM, it was just to help keep the minions alive between fights, and as a self heal in a pinch.
It can be fun to put virulence and epidemic on a MM build. Regardless, you should try to fit one damage spell in there so you have something to do until someone dies, or if you lose all your minions for some reason (zoning, attacking corpse light groups, searing flames or invoke lightning eles). I only run bone fiends and shambling horrors now when I MM. Faster damage w/the BF and 2 minions with the shambling horrors. I also go 16 Death and 10 Soul Reaping which leaves me with enough points to get another attribute to 9 if I remember correctly. Animate Flesh Golem is fun, but it does seem kind of limited. High damage, but slow attacks, pathing problems. And then if you're constantly spamming new minions you'll replace him in short order and have to recast him. Virulence does decent degen and coupled with epidemic and a mob is pretty nasty. Icy Veins is nice area effect damage on lower level monsters. Reapers Mark does -4 degen at 10SR and gives you back energy. Point is you can do more than just minions when MMing. Mix it up a bit and have some fun.
Cathode_Reborn
The new insane damage on Discord could be somethin to mess around with.
Ensign
The most important skill on your bar is Animate Bone Fiend. The next most important skill on your bar is Blood of the Master. After that...nothing is very important. The only other spell that's worth casting over those two is Order of Pain. Otherwise you're taking spells to compliment those two.
I am not a big fan of Signet of Lost Souls - I spend all of my time casting, and enemies melt so quickly under Order of Pain + Animate Bone Fiend that it is much more difficult than it should be to land a Signet. Lower powered, more conservative, higher downtime Minion Masters might find it more useful than I did. I'm a fan of Dark Bond at the moment, the fact that you rarely have to spend any meaningful time casting it mid-battle is a huge perk. Peace, -CxE
crosshatch123
If you take AotL, do u still take a taste of death?
And could this build work? 13 soulreaping 16 death rest in blood [skill]Reaper's Mark[/skill](for degen when there no corpses) [skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] [skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill] [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] [skill]Taste of Death[/skill] [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] [skill]Infuse Condition[/skill] or [skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill] ReZ I wonder if reapers mark is a usable skill, and if I should put Bone minions in Narayanese
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
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Originally Posted by Vandal2k6
So what I want to know is, as an MM should I just spam minions or try to keep an eye on the current health of my flock? This is easier said than done in the heat of battle, which is why I've not been doing so atm. Am I doing OK the way I am (I can keep 8 up 95% of the time atm) or should I manage it a bit more.
8 minions, sounds like you are doing just fine. You never know when you might run out of corpses, so try keeping an eye on minion health and spam BoTM if they aren't near max health.
crosshatch123
I was thinking of discord aswell, but your foe has to have a condition AND a hex or enchantment. [skill]Discord[/skill]
Then ull have to have rotting flesh (or somthing like that) and a hex spell? on a MM build Correct me if im wrong xD
jesh
Discord is pretty conditional, but you do have a lot of room on a MM bar. It's just a question of how well you are at pulling 2 builds off at the same time.
Personally I'm running Reaper's Mark with Mark of Pain atm, because I haven't capped Order of Undeath yet. I had forgotten about Aura of the Lich, it is pretty hot. It's a pretty late game cap though.
Cathode_Reborn
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Originally Posted by crosshatch123
If you take AotL, do u still take a taste of death?
And could this build work? 13 soulreaping 16 death rest in blood [skill]Reaper's Mark[/skill](for degen when there no corpses) [skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill] [skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill] [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] [skill]Taste of Death[/skill] [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] [skill]Infuse Condition[/skill] or [skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill] ReZ I wonder if reapers mark is a usable skill, and if I should put Bone minions in Reaper's Mark is usually always used for damage, rather than energy gain. An MM doesn't always have tons of energy like many claim they do, so RM could help with that, only if you need the energy. For killing, it doesn't do well in pve. The strength of it's degen is that it lasts a very long time. It's better in pvp since enemies in pve usually won't even live throughout the entire duration. Bone Minions should only be used for minion bombing. They do give back lots of energy though since you create 2 of em. If you want energy gain though, Sig of Lost Souls might be better since bone minions take up 2 spaces in your limited army. Dark Bond has really never seemed necessary in pve. If I come under attack, I just need to move back a little, and the enemy will find another target. When MM'ing in pvp areas like Alliances Battles or Fort Aspenwood, Dark Bond is a must. When using AotL, it's always good to have Infuse Condition. You might even wanna try out Mending Touch instead, if you're not using your 2ndary class. Since it isn't an enchantment, it could be more reliable than Infuse.
Emik
I've been running this lately...
[skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Infuse Condition[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] Started out with this first, [skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Infuse Condition[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] but then saw the first version on Wiki and tried it. Must say it's a blast. Low damage and the damage you still receive gets redirected for 75% No conditions and a constant +10 health regen. It's massive As for attributes: Death Magic: 12+3+1 Soul Reaping: 9+1 Blood Magic: 5+1 Earth Prayers: 8
jesh
That looks like a pretty awesome build, Emik. I would change out Horrors for Shambling, though. And use a Sunspear Signet.
crosshatch123
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Originally Posted by jesh
That looks like a pretty awesome build, Emik. I would change out Horrors for Shambling, though. And use a Sunspear Signet.
About shambling, is it such an good minion? I'm using it for a while now, and I think it acts like a fleshie, it doesnt attack opponents fast, and when an opponent is killed, its also takes some time to attack the next, bone fiend are much better in that way
EDIT: @ Emik, I've been trying your build asweel now (with Mystic Regen) and I must say its great ! =D. But u dont have any dmg to get corpses, So your build relies on ally's right? (I mean, no farming?) Narayanese
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Originally Posted by crosshatch123
I was thinking of discord aswell, but your foe has to have a condition AND a hex or enchantment. [skill]Discord[/skill]
Then ull have to have rotting flesh (or somthing like that) and a hex spell? on a MM build Correct me if im wrong xD Yup, rising bile or parasitic bond as hex, and rotting flesh or enfeeble as condition. Rotting Flesh only works in some areas, in other they are immune to disease, or human. Quite often you can use a hex and condition someone else in your party put there, but it is best to bring them yourself, and there is room on an MM bar. You are doing two things at the same time, but at least it is IMO easier than minion bombing (death nova has a long casting time, and targeting minions is tricky). My current skillbar: [skill]Discord[/skill][skill]Enfeeble[/skill][skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Taste of Death[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill] Shambling Horrors are nice for the low energy cost, and as a reserve skill to be able to animate two minions after each other, which is handy when starting your army. |