[skill]Reaper's Sweep[/skill]
[skill]Resurrect[/skill]
[skill]Essence Bond[/skill]
[skill]Vital Boon[/skill]
[skill]Zealous Renewal[/skill]
[skill]Heart of Holy Flame[/skill]
[skill]Faithful Intervention[/skill]
[skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill]
Scythe Mastery:12+1+3
Mysticism: 12+3
any skills i should change or skill ranks?
mainly for PvE
Need Help With New Build
necro fecro
necro fecro
any tips would be appreciated
Coloneh
zealous renewal dosnt usually net much energy, id drop it. Also heart of holy flame is really only usefull Vs undead or if you are removing it. I would drop both of them and take mystic vigor and another attack skill.
Servant of Kali
Hmm..
1) Heart of Fury. You need this. 99% Dervish builds need this. This is the most important non-elite Dervish skill. I've seen many Dervishes without it. It's the best IAS in the game, assassins warriors and others would be thrilled to have this skill.
2) Reaper's Sweep is a no-no. It's one of the worst Dervish elites. Especially in PvE
3) Rebirth is better in PvE than Ressurect, but Ressurect will do.
4) Essence Bond. Uh, no. Stay out of "whammo" skills. With new monster AI, it's VERY unlikely that you will be their target. Especially with +health enchants you have. The AI will not prioritize you.
5) Vital Boon. It's fine skill in some combos, but you're using Earth Prayers just for this skill. Not good.
6) Heart of Holy Flame is not worth a skill slot.
7) Watchful Intervention is better than Faithful. You can pre-prot and cast it on more people, and it heals for more, and it triggers on 25% not on 50%. Triggering on 25% means it will save u when u'll be near death, and at 50% of health there are monks to do the healing. It's not difficult to bring Dervish to 50% health; therefore, you'll need to recast Faithful too often, which ... isnt good in the middle of the battle. Faithful Intervention is something like Mending, an enchant for lazy people. Lazy and battle dont go together
8) Mystic Sweep wont do on itself. Chilling Victory is the best Dervish PvE attack skill.
(and Zealous Renewal is good IMO, you can keep it; it does give a nice energy boost)
...now my advice is pick some good dervish elite which you like, and work around it. Put elite first, and then skills.
Dervish PvE elites, ranked from best to worse, IMO:
1) Avatar of Dwayna. (im sure my Juggernaut build is somewhere in the forum, if not i can retype it for you) This is by far the best PvE elite for 99% areas.
2) Avatar of Melandru. (goes with Wearying Strike)
3) Zealous Vow. (goes with fast attacks, like Mystic Sweep, Eremite's, Protector's Strike; and ideally Watch Yourself because you will gain adrenaline fast)
Situational Dervish PvE elites; better than the above ones in some situations, but should use as an exception not a rule:
1) Vow of Silence. (could be used with a Rt behind you, with Life and Reccuperation) This is a very interesting elite in some game areas.
2) Ebon Dust Aura. This skill can be in above group too, after Vow. It's ok if you want to play more on a defense and help the party, while still killing enemies.
Dervish PvE elites which can be fun, and using them is OK, but they are weaker than those in the first list:
1) Avatar of Balthazar. Many love the look of it, but in 99% game areas, Dwayna does much better. It's not a bad avatar as i said, it can be fun. But if you want optimal setup, pick Dwayna.
2) Avatar of Lyssa. Too situational to be really useful, but if you like the look, go ahead. Dont use it with scythe, use spear or daggers. Dont use sword because i cant stand swords. It reminds me of whammos. And you dont want to be a whammo as a Dervish, and a disgrace to your race
Dervish PvE elites which are useless for a Dervish in PvE:
(Disclaimer: i've seen attempts at using these elite, but never a build which would actually work better or as good as other builds. Im open to suggestions, and you can prove me wrong, but until then i dont consider these elites viable in PvE at least)
1) Onslaught. Simply put, it's not an elite for primary Dervishes.
2) Grenths Grasp. Useless in PvP, even more useless in PvE.
3) Reaper's Sweep. Uh, just no. There are better combos.
4) Pious Renewal. So a build using this in RA, but none for PvE. Maybe it would somehow work, but i have yet to see it.
5) Arcane Zeal. Others elite do it better, whatever you're about to do with this elite. But you can always prove me wrong. This elite can be theoretically ok, but im not interested in theories.
6) Vow of Strenght. Theoretically and ok elite. Practically, a very bad one. You cant use attacks, and Chilling Victory will do almost as much dmg in PvE as bonus from this skill. I use it on Melonni, because she knows how to use it (unlike some other dervish elites).
7) Wounding Strike. It's not that bad an elite. Just that Melandru+Wearying is better. Never mind avatar recharge, it pays off.
8) Avatar of Grenth. After the recent nerf, there is no reason to use this in PvE. Ever.
There. Hope it helped.
1) Heart of Fury. You need this. 99% Dervish builds need this. This is the most important non-elite Dervish skill. I've seen many Dervishes without it. It's the best IAS in the game, assassins warriors and others would be thrilled to have this skill.
2) Reaper's Sweep is a no-no. It's one of the worst Dervish elites. Especially in PvE
3) Rebirth is better in PvE than Ressurect, but Ressurect will do.
4) Essence Bond. Uh, no. Stay out of "whammo" skills. With new monster AI, it's VERY unlikely that you will be their target. Especially with +health enchants you have. The AI will not prioritize you.
5) Vital Boon. It's fine skill in some combos, but you're using Earth Prayers just for this skill. Not good.
6) Heart of Holy Flame is not worth a skill slot.
7) Watchful Intervention is better than Faithful. You can pre-prot and cast it on more people, and it heals for more, and it triggers on 25% not on 50%. Triggering on 25% means it will save u when u'll be near death, and at 50% of health there are monks to do the healing. It's not difficult to bring Dervish to 50% health; therefore, you'll need to recast Faithful too often, which ... isnt good in the middle of the battle. Faithful Intervention is something like Mending, an enchant for lazy people. Lazy and battle dont go together
8) Mystic Sweep wont do on itself. Chilling Victory is the best Dervish PvE attack skill.
(and Zealous Renewal is good IMO, you can keep it; it does give a nice energy boost)
...now my advice is pick some good dervish elite which you like, and work around it. Put elite first, and then skills.
Dervish PvE elites, ranked from best to worse, IMO:
1) Avatar of Dwayna. (im sure my Juggernaut build is somewhere in the forum, if not i can retype it for you) This is by far the best PvE elite for 99% areas.
2) Avatar of Melandru. (goes with Wearying Strike)
3) Zealous Vow. (goes with fast attacks, like Mystic Sweep, Eremite's, Protector's Strike; and ideally Watch Yourself because you will gain adrenaline fast)
Situational Dervish PvE elites; better than the above ones in some situations, but should use as an exception not a rule:
1) Vow of Silence. (could be used with a Rt behind you, with Life and Reccuperation) This is a very interesting elite in some game areas.
2) Ebon Dust Aura. This skill can be in above group too, after Vow. It's ok if you want to play more on a defense and help the party, while still killing enemies.
Dervish PvE elites which can be fun, and using them is OK, but they are weaker than those in the first list:
1) Avatar of Balthazar. Many love the look of it, but in 99% game areas, Dwayna does much better. It's not a bad avatar as i said, it can be fun. But if you want optimal setup, pick Dwayna.
2) Avatar of Lyssa. Too situational to be really useful, but if you like the look, go ahead. Dont use it with scythe, use spear or daggers. Dont use sword because i cant stand swords. It reminds me of whammos. And you dont want to be a whammo as a Dervish, and a disgrace to your race
Dervish PvE elites which are useless for a Dervish in PvE:
(Disclaimer: i've seen attempts at using these elite, but never a build which would actually work better or as good as other builds. Im open to suggestions, and you can prove me wrong, but until then i dont consider these elites viable in PvE at least)
1) Onslaught. Simply put, it's not an elite for primary Dervishes.
2) Grenths Grasp. Useless in PvP, even more useless in PvE.
3) Reaper's Sweep. Uh, just no. There are better combos.
4) Pious Renewal. So a build using this in RA, but none for PvE. Maybe it would somehow work, but i have yet to see it.
5) Arcane Zeal. Others elite do it better, whatever you're about to do with this elite. But you can always prove me wrong. This elite can be theoretically ok, but im not interested in theories.
6) Vow of Strenght. Theoretically and ok elite. Practically, a very bad one. You cant use attacks, and Chilling Victory will do almost as much dmg in PvE as bonus from this skill. I use it on Melonni, because she knows how to use it (unlike some other dervish elites).
7) Wounding Strike. It's not that bad an elite. Just that Melandru+Wearying is better. Never mind avatar recharge, it pays off.
8) Avatar of Grenth. After the recent nerf, there is no reason to use this in PvE. Ever.
There. Hope it helped.
Coloneh
Vow of strength is a great elite. it save like 4 slots on your skillbar and you spend like a fourth of the energy. and you deal about the same damage. pwns avatars.
Just_ A_Nightmare
id agree with coloneh with mystic vigor, its a great skill, and if u can use it well you will pretty much self heal
Servant of Kali
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
Vow of strength is a great elite. it save like 4 slots on your skillbar and you spend like a fourth of the energy. and you deal about the same damage. pwns avatars.
How bout you type your full Vow of Strenght skillbar, and attribute points you use.
Then i'll explain on a practical example why it's bad. That is, my point of view.
(ps: i edited first post a bit; after the recent skill update Avatar of Grenth is among absolutely useless PvE skills)
Then i'll explain on a practical example why it's bad. That is, my point of view.
(ps: i edited first post a bit; after the recent skill update Avatar of Grenth is among absolutely useless PvE skills)
A Leprechaun
@ Servant of Kali ->
Reapers sweep is a fine elite i dont see why you dont like it, it does +42 dmg which is awesome on its own but then it also has the added bonus of a deep wound if they are under 50% hp good vs everyone but amazing vs bosses or tricky targets, yes it probably is more suited to PvP but it still works well in PvE.
I would always use a sythe with Avatar of Lyssa, you could be beating on 3 foes at once and doing extra damage whenever any of them use a skill of you were using a spear or daggers then you would have to focus on one target thus lowering its effectivness. Using it with Emerites attack and/or Mystic sweep is very effective due to thier short cast times you can really hit even shorter casting spells and skills.
Avatar of Dwayna is very good if you dont beleive in your monks, but if they seem compitent then why not use a skill that adds damage, like Avatar of Balthazar, Avatar of Lyssa or Reapers sweep.
Heart of fury is good but it has a annoyingly big energy cost and a fair cooldown time, its handy if you can find the energy but not essential.
Just my views, Im not knocking you just arguing my piont.
~A Leprechaun~
Reapers sweep is a fine elite i dont see why you dont like it, it does +42 dmg which is awesome on its own but then it also has the added bonus of a deep wound if they are under 50% hp good vs everyone but amazing vs bosses or tricky targets, yes it probably is more suited to PvP but it still works well in PvE.
I would always use a sythe with Avatar of Lyssa, you could be beating on 3 foes at once and doing extra damage whenever any of them use a skill of you were using a spear or daggers then you would have to focus on one target thus lowering its effectivness. Using it with Emerites attack and/or Mystic sweep is very effective due to thier short cast times you can really hit even shorter casting spells and skills.
Avatar of Dwayna is very good if you dont beleive in your monks, but if they seem compitent then why not use a skill that adds damage, like Avatar of Balthazar, Avatar of Lyssa or Reapers sweep.
Heart of fury is good but it has a annoyingly big energy cost and a fair cooldown time, its handy if you can find the energy but not essential.
Just my views, Im not knocking you just arguing my piont.
~A Leprechaun~
Servant of Kali
Reaper's Sweep is a bad elite. Why? Because there are other elites, which do the job better. For more detailed explanation:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10117254
Quote:
I would always use a sythe with Avatar of Lyssa, you could be beating on 3 foes at once and doing extra damage whenever any of them use a skill
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10117254
Quote:
Still, I feel that Lyssa is not the best choice for PvE, and it's not used at all in PvP either. ANet will continue increasing max energy, which is NOT the reason why this skill isnt used. The avatar duration needs to be increased, just as the others got decreased. Either that, or increase dmg, but i think dmg is fine, the duration is NOT.
btw, please note that i didnt say Lyssa is "bad" "horrible" etc. I named it under "fun and OK elites, but somewhat weaker than others".
This is true. Seriously, Dwayna and Melandru, and probably even Zealous Vow, will be more useful overall. That doesnt mean no one should play Lyssa; on contrary, i like the creativity.
Quote:
Dwayna isnt about "believing monks". It's simply about using self-defense stuff while you still deal a nice amount of dmg. Just because you have Dwayna doesnt mean you dont have Chilling Victory, Heart of Fury, Victorious/Creepling/other etc.
There are many PvE areas where Dwayna totally rules. PvE monks are not PvP monks; it makes sense to have awesome self-survival while still dealing dmg. Because of scythe AoE and dmg, you can have both higher selfsurvival and dmg than any warrior build i've seen in PvE, thus far, in 99% game areas (i dont count those areas which are artifically made to be anti-Dervish anti-Assassin as such, as is Domain of Anguish).
Most people on this forum will PvE 99% of time with PUGs and PvE guildies, and not PvP guildies. Expecting the monks to heal everything is the same as expecting most warriors not to have sword and bad skills such as Mending.
Quote:
That's irrelevant when you get experienced with Dervish. |
Heart of fury is good but it has a annoyingly big energy cost and a fair cooldown time, its handy if you can find the energy but not essential.
Heart of Fury is ABSOLUTELY essential to a scythe Dervish build to the point where everyone not using it is a "beginner" and "newbie" to me. There is absolutely no reason not to use it, outside of 1% weird builds. That annoyingly big energy cost you're talking about is *gasp* 5 energy (is it that much, really?) after mysticism deduction. Dervish has 4 energy regen, and just to remind you, Warriors can cast Frenzy every 8sec plus switch stance, and they can find energy for it. Saying that Dervish has no 5e in 30sec for the best IAS in the game, .... Fair cooldown time is what exactly? 6-7 seconds? There is absolutely no need for a good Dervish build to use lower than 15 Mysticism (outside of some weird builds), and there is absolutely no excuse for not using 20% enchant weapon as Dervish (outside of some very very very weird builds). In other words, your HoFury will last 24sec out of 30 sec AND moreover it will cause 42dmg armor-ignoring dmg to all adjacent foes. And last, scythe has 1.75 attack time. Not using available 33% IAS on that, is unforgivable.
A Leprechaun
The energy from mysticism is not upfront it still costs 10 energy meaning you only have 15 energy less, I not a big fan of using too many 10 energy skills. I never run my mysticism as high as 15, why would you? I would rather save the runes and my health and run it at 12-13. I dont have an enchanting mod and you cant say that to be a dervish you must have one, you dont. so for me its got more of a 13 second cooldown which isnt that good.
Avatar of Balthazar does add damage, more than dwayna anyway, the +33% speed boost means you can be hitting foes all the time not as much time running in between enemies and the holy damage would be good against warriors and, as its not elemental either, elementalists and rangers. You have started the same thing that has happened to warriors, where people hijack threads and just shout "DRAGON SLASH!" as the answer to any question.... ~A Leprechaun~
Servant of Kali
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Leprechaun
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Moreover, not-upfront is even better, as you can use pre-protting to gain energy. The strategy of pre-protting yourself as Dervish is not something you will find easily on the forum (or at least i've not seen it yet).
Basically, you precast enchantment before battle (for instance, in GvG, but works elsewhere too of course), then 5 sec later you precast another one, etc. By the time you engage in battle and waste some energy, these pre-protted enchantments end and give you energy.
I've seen a lot of Dervishes who use enchantments as if they were eles, or monk. Dervish has a lot of little unique playstyle features which many have not discovered yet. They charge into battle, and when they get near the enemy they cast all the enchants.
Quote:
Saving the runes when playing Dervish is one of the worse things you can do as Dervish, as Dervish has high health as is, and can afford 1 sup rune without a problem (most builds can), and even 2 runes.
"saving health" phrase is something you will not hear from any experienced PvE Dervish, and i doubt u'll hear it often in PvP either. Saving health is what you do when you're a monk in PvP. Not a Dervish in PvE.
Quote: I dont have an enchanting mod and you cant say that to be a dervish you must have one I would have been suprised if you said that you use enchanting mod.
I didnt say you need one to be a Dervish, i said you need one if you're experienced Dervish.
Quote: Avatar of Balthazar does add damage, more than dwayna anyway, the +33% speed boost means you can be hitting foes all the time not as much time running in between enemies Unlike in PvP, the speed bonus in PvE fighting is only theoretical. In practice, enemies dont really kite, and they are grouped. Mostly, it's just C+space. How often do you see meleers (warriors, dervishes..) having run stance in PvE? Exactly
Balthazar doesnt always do more dmg than Dwayna; what if you get hexed with Faintheartedness, or any of the thousand anti-melee hexes? The likelyhood of monk removing it off you, is equal to ele in the party Windborning me.
Quote: and the holy damage would be good against warriors and, as its not elemental either, elementalists and rangers. It's the same against rangers as physical. And it's slightly better against warriors who have +physical armor, true, but not to the point where i would consider it critically important (especially in Nightfall where the amount of warriors is very low, compared to Dervishes and others). So yes you're right, in some cases it indeed increase the dmg, but how much? Let's say a mob has 8 creatures of which 1 warrior. Let's say 2 somewhere. How much less dmg is that, if you dont do holy dmg? I could be wrong of course, i tried Heart of Holy Flame and .. it didnt really seem worthy of skillbar to me.
So in short, yes Balthazar has 33% speed boost, yes it has +40 armor, yes it has holy dmg... in the battle, the speed boost is negligible IMO, armor is ok but less worth than bonus Dwayna gives, and holy dmg is also negligible.
Compared to Melandru+Wearying, the dmg Balthazar does is much lower in PvE (deep wound +dmg bonus is huge for PvE as enemies die fast; melandru cannot be blinded, weaknessed or crippled which increases dmg), and Melandru isnt that much worse on defense (+150 health and immunity to degen from poison n disease let's say).
Compared to Dwayna, the defense of Balthazar is 3x lower (if not more), and more you advance in PvE more advantage you gain. A good Dervish with Avatar of Dwayna (+RoF +prot spirit) can do all nightfall missions naked, without armor, and constantly being in battle.
The dmg Dwayna does can be slightly smaller than Balthazar (*gasps* holy dmg and speed as you said), but in many areas it will in fact be higher (such as in FoW) because you will instantly remove all those annoying hexes of you, and continue hitting. No monk, especially PvE one, will remove hexes that fast, and some hardly remove any. Plenty of game areas with slow hexes as well (shiverpeaks?), which are no problem for Dwayna, but Balthazar will take longer to strike foes.
All in all, this is all theory. In practice, i've not seen Balthazar build which would work as good as Dwayna build i use. I've not seen one in RA either, while i can easily farm glad points with Dwayna.
Now, im not saying Balthazar is bad, but IMO it does lack a bit when compared to Melandru or Dwayna.
Quote: Originally Posted by gogoblender Pve is a completely diferent way of seeing gaming in gw and all people that attempt to put a pvp spin on pve attempts to build builds NOT for reasons of kills/over time but for OTHER reasons are killing the pve style of creative gaming. Dude, what on earth are you talking about? If you want to talk about flowers and which one smells the best for you, you can go to forum discussing flowers.
If you want to talk about game Guild Wars, and which skills are optimally better for the task they are used, then check this thread.
If you dont see the difference between Mending and Vigorious spirit, and both are the same to you, then go continue using Mending on your whammo and never against come to game forums dedicated to professions of discussions. Why? Because we dont discuss here whose armor looks the best, whether FoW or 15k. Who cares, it's up to you. Here we discuss logic, practice, theory and math, of why Mending gives less heal per energy than Vigorious, or why Backfire (a non elite skill) is better than Visions of Regret which is an elite.
Quote:
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Please, everyone...please pay more attention to what the op is attempting to do and what the op is attempting to find. Again...this is pve. And what else are we discussing here? We are discussing the usability and effectiveness of skills in PvE. If it's too advanced a discussion for you, just skip it ok? The OP needed help with the build. That's what he typed, didnt he? Obviosly, using logic, we can conclude that he asked for more effective build. Im sure he didnt want us to tell him whether Grenth's Grasp has better skill icon than Onslaugh, after which he would use the skill with cooler looking icon. Quote:
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in PVE against lvl 20-24's u can spike down somone at 50%hp with reapers and chilling victory and it is one of my key skills in my 130hp boss farmer