Am i the only one that think this skills was nerfed to its oblivion?
I dont play with paragons, but does not change the fact that paragons now have -1 elite skill.
Reduce the damage taken to 30%? Increase the energy cost?
It now lasts 1...3 seconds for those who do not know
Incoming!
Gregslot
Xrii
paragons have more than one elite skills...incoming is good but i find others better in manyareas even without the nerfing
Skuld
It is to prevent people fitting multiple copies into a paragon-only build now that we have 8 vs 8 HA and getting near perma-75% damage reduction with it stacking with Angelic Bond. The prospect of facing opposing parties with 75% damage reduction on 8 targets with 150~ armour and spammable party-wide heals and crazy offensive capabilities can't really be left untouched.
It is still marginably usable for stopping the odd spike, but it isn't worth taking instead of [wiki]Cruel Spear[/wiki], IMO.
It is still marginably usable for stopping the odd spike, but it isn't worth taking instead of [wiki]Cruel Spear[/wiki], IMO.
baddog992
Ya paragons have gotten hit by the nerf bat hard, for some legit reasons, most of the elite skills are not worth taking and a lot of the healing abilites of the class are now dead, I still like playing the class, but for healing and buffs you would be better off with a spammin monk.
Skuld
Paragons have very nice offensive capabilities with the spear attacks and "go for the eyes", don't forget that. All but like, 2, paragon elites are trash, they need a serious workover.
pingu666
ud need 7 paragons with this to keep it up continously...
Mr_Cynical
Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu666
ud need 7 paragons with this to keep it up continously...
And in an 8v8 arena this would be an obstacle why?
pingu666
u might need a monk, and another class, or a paragon with another elite..
Son of Urza
The problem with Paragons is:
If they DON'T suck, HA groups become 8 near-invincible Paragons with 96+ armor spamming group-wide defensive skills on each other and beating the crap out of the other team.
If they AREN'T degenerate . . . well, they suck.
Similar story to Smiting. If Smiting is actually worthwhile, you get 8-monk smiteballs. Unfortunately, in this case, it's an entire class.
If they DON'T suck, HA groups become 8 near-invincible Paragons with 96+ armor spamming group-wide defensive skills on each other and beating the crap out of the other team.
If they AREN'T degenerate . . . well, they suck.
Similar story to Smiting. If Smiting is actually worthwhile, you get 8-monk smiteballs. Unfortunately, in this case, it's an entire class.
clawofcrimson
apparently I fail at starting interesting threads so I'll post this here 
not sure if people noticed or not..but the para got hit pretty hard this last update... these are permanent changes
Update - Friday February 9, 2007
Paragon
"Stand Your Ground!": decreased recharge time to 30 seconds, decreased duration to 5..20 seconds.
"They're on Fire!": decreased recharge time to 10 seconds, decreased duration to 10 seconds, decreased damage reduction to 5..35.
Angelic Bond: increased Energy cost to 10, increased casting time to 2 seconds.
Slayer's Spear: increased Energy cost to 10, decreased damage to 5..25.
Vicious Attack: increased recharge time to 8 seconds.
Cruel Spear: decreased damage to 1..31.
"Incoming!": decreased duration to 1..3 seconds.
not sure if people noticed or not..but the para got hit pretty hard this last update... these are permanent changes
Update - Friday February 9, 2007
Paragon
"Stand Your Ground!": decreased recharge time to 30 seconds, decreased duration to 5..20 seconds.
"They're on Fire!": decreased recharge time to 10 seconds, decreased duration to 10 seconds, decreased damage reduction to 5..35.
Angelic Bond: increased Energy cost to 10, increased casting time to 2 seconds.
Slayer's Spear: increased Energy cost to 10, decreased damage to 5..25.
Vicious Attack: increased recharge time to 8 seconds.
Cruel Spear: decreased damage to 1..31.
"Incoming!": decreased duration to 1..3 seconds.
Sujoy
I dont know about you guys, but I think its a "OK" change. Seemed to me everyone just wanted to play their Paragon cuz it used to own... whats the fun in have a 8 man Paragon team... over and over again. So like any "popular" class, the Paragon was meant to be downgraded, to make it more like the other classes... my two cents
mikkel
PvE got Paragons nerfed beyond what I found appealing, sadly, and mine is now a mule.
It's kinda silly to see Dervishes remain so obviously overpowered in PvE, solely because they aren't used in PvP to the same extent as Paragons were. It's pretty much a raffle now. If you're making a new character with a new profession for PvE, you'll be begging for that profession to be worthless in PvP so that nerfs won't kill it for PvE use.
It's kinda silly to see Dervishes remain so obviously overpowered in PvE, solely because they aren't used in PvP to the same extent as Paragons were. It's pretty much a raffle now. If you're making a new character with a new profession for PvE, you'll be begging for that profession to be worthless in PvP so that nerfs won't kill it for PvE use.
Crazyvietguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikkel
It's kinda silly to see Dervishes remain so obviously overpowered in PvE, solely because they aren't used in PvP to the same extent as Paragons were. It's pretty much a raffle now. If you're making a new character with a new profession for PvE, you'll be begging for that profession to be worthless in PvP so that nerfs won't kill it for PvE use.
Thats because Anet doesnt really care about PvE. Sure they throw events and green drop weekends. But all in all, when it comes to skills PvE is not on their mind. Which to some extent is fair because PvP skills and tactics are all you got.
In PvE youll just have to accept that the only good paragons are the ones with axes and swords.
In PvE youll just have to accept that the only good paragons are the ones with axes and swords.
uberpwnage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy
Thats because Anet doesnt really care about PvE. Sure they throw events and green drop weekends. But all in all, when it comes to skills PvE is not on their mind. Which to some extent is fair because PvP skills and tactics are all you got.
In PvE youll just have to accept that the only good paragons are the ones with axes and swords. You can't forget that Anet doesn't want anybody to wipe Mallyx with ease.
That's pretty much all in terms of caring for PvE, though.
Yes, I will admit that paragons got whacked in the head with the nerf-bat to the head on the first "Incoming!" nerf.
This knocked them on the ground. What Paragons didn't expect was for Anet to hit them again with the nerf-bat while they were down rather than lend a helping hand.
Sure, an 8 paragon team is a wrecking ball, but c'mon; I had an 8 derv team demolish Gate of Madness before. Practically anything is good when used in mass. Synergy is good. This was a reason to play the paragon.
At this point, a smiting heal party spammer would probably be a more viable choice. I mean, c'mon, more energy regen, farther range, what's not to love?
In PvE youll just have to accept that the only good paragons are the ones with axes and swords. You can't forget that Anet doesn't want anybody to wipe Mallyx with ease.
That's pretty much all in terms of caring for PvE, though.
Yes, I will admit that paragons got whacked in the head with the nerf-bat to the head on the first "Incoming!" nerf.
This knocked them on the ground. What Paragons didn't expect was for Anet to hit them again with the nerf-bat while they were down rather than lend a helping hand.
Sure, an 8 paragon team is a wrecking ball, but c'mon; I had an 8 derv team demolish Gate of Madness before. Practically anything is good when used in mass. Synergy is good. This was a reason to play the paragon.
At this point, a smiting heal party spammer would probably be a more viable choice. I mean, c'mon, more energy regen, farther range, what's not to love?
mikkel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy
Thats because Anet doesnt really care about PvE. Sure they throw events and green drop weekends. But all in all, when it comes to skills PvE is not on their mind. Which to some extent is fair because PvP skills and tactics are all you got.
In PvE youll just have to accept that the only good paragons are the ones with axes and swords. Needing buffs is just the same as needing nerfs, they're just in opposite ends of the balance spectrum. PvP players constantly cry when anything is the slightest bit off-balance, so as a PvE player, I'm not going to just settle for "you just have to accept that the character you put 140 hours into just got nerfed into oblivion".
ArenaNet need to use their heads.
In PvE youll just have to accept that the only good paragons are the ones with axes and swords. Needing buffs is just the same as needing nerfs, they're just in opposite ends of the balance spectrum. PvP players constantly cry when anything is the slightest bit off-balance, so as a PvE player, I'm not going to just settle for "you just have to accept that the character you put 140 hours into just got nerfed into oblivion".
ArenaNet need to use their heads.
clawofcrimson
PVP,PVP,PVP,PVP........ there is an evident need for the paragon nerf... but the developers imho should focus more on the mechanics of the paragons skills rather than there potency....
Govtmorgue
So I posted this in a thread that got closed (not due to me). I thought that maybe it'd be a good idea if they could implement it.
I believe that one way to balance the skill is to have text stating:
"Elite Shout. For 1...5 seconds, all party members within earshot take 50% less damage. Players may not be affecting by another Incoming! for 15...5 seconds after Incoming! ends."
That would basically make it so that even if you had multiple Paragons on the team, there would be no way to make a permanent damage reduction. I'm not sure if they could script that into all professions, but if they could then Incoming! would definitely still have it's uses as a spike preventer, instead of the current "fix" that ANET skill balancing team had of making the elite skill almost entirely useless without a team of at least four paragons.
I believe that one way to balance the skill is to have text stating:
"Elite Shout. For 1...5 seconds, all party members within earshot take 50% less damage. Players may not be affecting by another Incoming! for 15...5 seconds after Incoming! ends."
That would basically make it so that even if you had multiple Paragons on the team, there would be no way to make a permanent damage reduction. I'm not sure if they could script that into all professions, but if they could then Incoming! would definitely still have it's uses as a spike preventer, instead of the current "fix" that ANET skill balancing team had of making the elite skill almost entirely useless without a team of at least four paragons.
pingu666
stopping profesion heavy teambuilds in gvg/ha or whatever would be the best fix...
FeroxC
In a gimmicyk6 paragon PVP build they are overpowerd thanks to spells that effect the entire team stacking, however due to the PVP nerfs a single paragon in PVE who has to rely on the same spells but without the stacking is perfetic.
Sure paragons a nice addition on your PVE team but he doesnt carry the weight ANY other proffesion would, ironic how a "leader" class is the weakest class.
The paragon class is a massive design flaw.
Sure paragons a nice addition on your PVE team but he doesnt carry the weight ANY other proffesion would, ironic how a "leader" class is the weakest class.
The paragon class is a massive design flaw.