"...And Stay Down!" build

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

15 Feb 2007 at 11:01 - 1

My total energy is 31 and I also mix +15 armor while attacking to body part so I archieve 85 armor to area where I mostly take hit. FInished three chapters with this build (works great in hero arena too with right hero combination).

One from last three skills can be changed with what you need in situation. Example resurrection signet is good idea when you join to PUG group and you don't know how well monks gonna perform or how many rambo warriors party get.

What is great that once you hit things you get so much energy that you can continue and continue doing so. No need run every 5 second because you get plenty energy with right weapons and armors.

Corinthian

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

15 Feb 2007 at 11:19 - 2

Failure: No elite skill.

Saphatorael

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

15 Feb 2007 at 11:30 - 3

Originally Posted by Corinthian

Failure: No elite skill. Oh please, alot of chains and skillbars can be good without an elite, I found about that with my mesmer very early, and a bit later on as well, when I started with my assassin.

To comment on your build: It's basically a Hot Stepper Preset without Shadow Stepping, with a 5e-lower cost, right?

The problem is, this will never work properly in the more decent PvP, since Unsuspecting Strike forces you to stick to one target, and use the 4 other skills consecutively... what makes it worse, is the fact that HotO+FS is a conditional thing. Again, if you're trying to 'spike' someone down who has a bit of common sense (read: anyone not doing RA or AB's), he'll stand close to an ally, rendering the last 2 skills of your chain useless.
Also, the fact that you have no IAS would just kill the build, the entire chain would take 6-7 seconds, which is just a bit too long for a spike build. (the standard is 3-5 seconds, nowadays)

Oh... and when you hit things, if you have a few points in Crit Strikes and Dagger Mastery, hardly anyone will run out of energy, that's just a trait of assassins.

Corinthian

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

15 Feb 2007 at 11:40 - 4

It screams for an elite skill.

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

15 Feb 2007 at 13:48 - 5

Shadow Prison>Death's Charge.

Res?

Protection Prayers?

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

15 Feb 2007 at 13:51 - 6

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

The problem is, this will never work properly in the more decent PvP, since Unsuspecting Strike forces you to stick to one target, and use the 4 other skills consecutively... what makes it worse, is the fact that HotO+FS is a conditional thing. Again, if you're trying to 'spike' someone down who has a bit of common sense (read: anyone not doing RA or AB's), he'll stand close to an ally, rendering the last 2 skills of your chain useless.
Also, the fact that you have no IAS would just kill the build, the entire chain would take 6-7 seconds, which is just a bit too long for a spike build. (the standard is 3-5 seconds, nowadays)

Oh... and when you hit things, if you have a few points in Crit Strikes and Dagger Mastery, hardly anyone will run out of energy, that's just a trait of assassins.

I'll bold some things that might be important in the initial post:

Quote: Originally Posted by Clord

My total energy is 31 and I also mix +15 armor while attacking to body part so I archieve 85 armor to area where I mostly take hit. FInished three chapters with this build (works great in hero arena too with right hero combination).

One from last three skills can be changed with what you need in situation. Example resurrection signet is good idea when you join to PUG group and you don't know how well monks gonna perform or how many rambo warriors party get.

What is great that once you hit things you get so much energy that you can continue and continue doing so. No need run every 5 second because you get plenty energy with right weapons and armors. Now... stop me if I'm wrong... but that leads me to believe that PvP isn't of particularly huge importance here. This was meant to be used primarily in PvE .... The comment about the hero arena is just subsidiary... basically...

That matter aside.... Elite Skills are typically used because they're better than non-elites.... generally... which is why most builds should have one. It doesn't mean this build is non-functional without an elite, but it could be better.
Oh.... and my recommendations include sticking in Wild Strike rather than Fox Fangs (for stance removal and quicker recharge), and perhaps ditching the whole Horns of the Ox / Falling Spider thing for Death Blossom and perhaps Moebius Strike... at least for PvE...
What folks do in the playground with the other humans isn't something I care to say too much about.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

15 Feb 2007 at 13:54 - 7

Elites arent needed so its not failure
However Shadow prison/AOD would be better then deaths charge as there both 20 recharge skills

where is the "stay down" of this build?
If your using a lead attack in PVP a IAS is reccomended so the monk wont pick up on how unsuspecting strike just took out 100 hp

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

15 Feb 2007 at 14:05 - 8

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Elites arent needed so its not failure
However Shadow prison/AOD would be better then deaths charge as there both 20 recharge skills

where is the "stay down" of this build?
If your using a lead attack in PVP a IAS is reccomended so the monk wont pick up on how unsuspecting strike just took out 100 hp Once again I note... Shadow Prison is a PvP-centric skill (and a sickeningly clichéd one at that)... whereas this build is shown to be a PvE-intended build primarily.
It might be nice to jump on someone and stop them escaping in PvP.... but the ONLY creature in PvE I have thus far found that would be useful on are the Avicara Wise in the Southern Shiverpeaks, and even then there are alternatives like having Leaping Mantis Strike and Jungle Strike.

In any case, both that and Death's Charge have long recharge.... something which could be fixed in the latter case by using Assassin's Promise.

unholy guardian

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Lost Haven

A/Mo

15 Feb 2007 at 14:12 - 9

it doesn't really indicate what it implies, it only has one knockdown..

Corinthian

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

15 Feb 2007 at 14:16 - 10

I still don't see how you can expect to be viable in PvP without an elite skill.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

15 Feb 2007 at 14:19 - 11

Originally Posted by Corinthian

I still don't see how you can expect to be viable in PvP without an elite skill. He can't, I imagine.

For the third time I repeat:
Player Versus Environment build.

The two are worlds apart... Some builds work well enough to get by in both... while others don't.

Munanko Roha

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

KoH

W/E

15 Feb 2007 at 16:25 - 12

2 words for a PvE build:

1) No foe except a boss will be alive for your full assassin combo. Maybe stick with less attack skills.

2) Area of effect simply rules in PvE; Death Blossom is your best bet.

Dutch Masterr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Long Island, NY

Elite Knights [SWAT]

W/

15 Feb 2007 at 17:07 - 13

falling spider shouldnt be followed by horns of the ox because there is no guarantee your target will be knocked down (due to the adjacent thing), especially in pve. conditions also arent THAT important in pve as an assassin. focus more on straight damage and quick recharge skill combos....judging from the build, you would probably like/benefit from the skill "moebius strike" which is elite. also it is very important to have 14+ attributes in dagger mastery. dont be afraid to use superior runes. you might like this build...

leaping mantis sting, wild strike, death blossom, moebius strike, dash, shadow refuge/feigned neutrality, return, optional..i run 15 dagger, 10 critical, 9 or 10 shadow...optional can be twisting fangs or res.

Adian D

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

England linconshire

SPFW

R/E

15 Feb 2007 at 18:21 - 14

you do NOT need a elite skill to make a build good there are plenaty of really good builds with out one so just leave it. it is not a failure.

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

15 Feb 2007 at 19:34 - 15

But the rest of the skills are.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

15 Feb 2007 at 19:35 - 16

even so...5 attack skills is generally too much in my opinion...

I would choose [card]palm strike[/card] and skip the lead attack...nowadays in pve ...mobs drop pretty quick and you will be lucky if you get in a 4 hit combo

running around in elona I have found a lot of rangers with stances.... so [card]wild blow[/card] and [card]burst of aggression[/card] are my secondary skills of choice right now...so....combine that with all the enchanted rolly pollies my buid currently looks like this...

[card]burst of aggression[/card] [card]palm strike[/card] [card]twisting fangs[/card] [card]expunge enchantments[/card] [card]wild blow[/card] [card]dark escape[/card] [card]feigned neutrality[/card] [OPTIONAL]

sins with IAS on is incredible and you will be suprised how quickly to take foes down...even with just a two skill combo...snares arent really needed and with the rest of your team attacking as well you are able to take down any foe....stances...enchants..and all...

thats of course when I'm not rolling through the game with my a/r bp build...with doesnt use quite as many brain cells........c,space............c,space........... .c,space....

wsmcasey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right behind you.

HeRo

W/Rt

15 Feb 2007 at 19:50 - 17

This is a pretty old build.

I ran this type of build after the release of Factions during Alliance Battles for a while. However, it works better as a Ranger primary because of energy management and Ranger evasive skills imo.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

15 Feb 2007 at 20:12 - 18

no more evade.... so the sins skill line up should be fine (critical defenses for instance) ...and please dont start the whole 'non primary skill bar' discussion again

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

15 Feb 2007 at 20:16 - 19

Isn't the point of an IAS doing more attacks in a smaller timeframe so could take more attacks in the spike?

ShadowbaneX

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Heroes of the Horn

A/Me

15 Feb 2007 at 20:31 - 20

why stop the chain? Add moebius strike as step 6, and then repeat steps 3-6 ad nauseum.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

15 Feb 2007 at 21:28 - 21

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Isn't the point of an IAS doing more attacks in a smaller timeframe so could take more attacks in the spike? ..well... yes.. i usually have a third attack in the 'optional' slot...

even then 3 attacks are pretty much all you will get in ...if you have competent team mates/heroes... the ias helps get your combo in quick and helps to finish the target off with those last few hits...

if you want to include moebus ... you could go a/n and use

paresetic bond>black spider>twisting fangs>moebus... that also would make a quick and spammable combo...

depending of course on your pve play style...

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

15 Feb 2007 at 22:01 - 22

erm, if your attack chain is powerful enough, solo (or semi solo) that 1 bad guy.

no elite doesnt mean bad build..

i could put incoming in a paragon build,or i could youknow, not waste a skillslot

lightblade

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Etereal Guard

Me/Mo

15 Feb 2007 at 23:50 - 23

Did you had any handicap when making the build? Like...faction only?

If not...you can only recieve a failing grade.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

16 Feb 2007 at 10:45 - 24

Originally Posted by clawofcrimson

..well... yes.. i usually have a third attack in the 'optional' slot...

even then 3 attacks are pretty much all you will get in ...if you have competent team mates/heroes... the ias helps get your combo in quick and helps to finish the target off with those last few hits...

if you want to include moebus ... you could go a/n and use

paresetic bond>black spider>twisting fangs>moebus... that also would make a quick and spammable combo...

depending of course on your pve play style... Twisting Fangs is often overkill in PvE ... not to mention the large numbers of enemies which aren't fleshy and thus immune to bleeding and the like (not sure if they're immune to Deep Wound or not). I'd vote Death Blossom every time for PvE as the Dual Attack of choice... especially since its spammable with a 2 second recharge.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

16 Feb 2007 at 15:17 - 25

moebius= recharge for TF.... bleeding is all but useless...deep wound will drop them fast....and every creature I've seen can have deep wound....

tf and moebius would allow you to kill things one at a time...but very quickly...of course blossom is always a good choice though...

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

16 Feb 2007 at 15:58 - 26

*Shrugs*

My standard combo has become Jagged, Wild, DB, Impale... though I'm probably going to switch over to a partially black line soon. I just don't like that Black Lotus Strike needs Critical Strikes (which I don't use much of in my Assassin's Promise dependant build).

Sqube

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Behind you...

A/

16 Feb 2007 at 16:14 - 27

With the name of your build, I was imagining a [skill=text]Moebius Strike[/skill] to [skill=text]Horns of the Ox[/skill] lockdown. In this sense, I am disappointed.

Your build is interesting in that you apparently meant it for PvE, but brought a knockdown that'll only work when an enemy is alone.

It's... decent. Since you're using such a long-lasting enchantment (Shroud of Distress), why not bring along [skill=text]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill]?

Why do you have random points in Protection Prayers without any actual Protection Prayers skills on your bar? Take those points out of there and add another point into Shadow Arts (I run 13/11/13); more healing and longer lasting SoD never hurt anyone.

Like I said, it's decent. To be brutally honest, however, you don't really need an incredibly efficient build to beat the campaigns.

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

19 Feb 2007 at 07:40 - 28

Ignore Protection Prayer for now because that 3 points can't be used to anywhere. My guy pretty much got 31 energy and can continue that combo very nicely. Also you need situational thinking when you start combo that what one you try to do. Also weapon choice is to steal energy because so many double strikes. I get nice amount energy from most hits

I win most from my hero battles because this build also. It is not surprising that this build works well in hero battles too.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

19 Feb 2007 at 17:13 - 29

i dont want to sound picky but you dont actually 'steal' energy......

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

20 Feb 2007 at 07:34 - 30

That is true, I'm maybe too used to many RPG games mechanics where it works so.

The5thSeraph

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

20 Feb 2007 at 12:22 - 31

Its a damned shame too. If Vampiric weapons steal health, why can't Zealous weapons steal energy?