as you probably know, the officers in a guild can recruit and also kick players from their guild (except other officers) whenever they feel like it, with or without the guild leader's permission. today an officer in my guild got upset or angry over something, reason unknown, and decided he should kick all 85 non-officer members from my guild...including me. after kicking everyone, he just left the guild. i spoke to some other officers and they were extremley angry over this and my guild leader has yet to find out. now they are in the process of trying to find everyone who was kicked to get them back in.
now, youre all probably saying "blah blah blah you just got kicked and your pissed", but this isnt the first time it has happened. it has happened in 2 of my old guilds too.
the way officers can kick whoever they want, when they want MUST be changed. i hope some some of you understand where im comming form and will agree with me that this needs to be fixed.
Kicking people from your guild...it needs to be changed!
Dutch Masterr
-Loki-
Don't recruit morons. Don't promote people you don't know well to officer.
pingu666
ouch 
i was kicked out of my old guild cos the leader took a joke the wrong way. she then proceeded to kick everyone in the guild id brought in, and another couple (dont think any where online at all)
i was kicked out of my old guild cos the leader took a joke the wrong way. she then proceeded to kick everyone in the guild id brought in, and another couple (dont think any where online at all)
Myrkwid
Somehow reminds me of all those spammers in presearing "New guild forming! Selfinvite! The first eight become officers!"
Easy solution: Don't give the officer's job to persons who are not trustworthy or unable to handle the job. That's why all my officers are within my cars driving range...and they know I'd pay them a visit if they screw things up ^^
Easy solution: Don't give the officer's job to persons who are not trustworthy or unable to handle the job. That's why all my officers are within my cars driving range...and they know I'd pay them a visit if they screw things up ^^
Sir Skullcrasher
Pay them a visit with a sledgehammer? 
Myrkwid
Never hit a man with glasses, use a brick 
Kuldebar Valiturus
To the OP: this isn't problem Net needs to fix.
Make the title of Officer mean something, only promote reliable people with enough maturity to handle being an officer
It really is that simple.
There's no 100% guarantees in life, we can only surround ourselves with quality people and hope for the best.
Make the title of Officer mean something, only promote reliable people with enough maturity to handle being an officer
It really is that simple.
There's no 100% guarantees in life, we can only surround ourselves with quality people and hope for the best.
Corran Horn
I've seen this happen. It seems that it would be better if it took two officers to approve the kicking of an individual before they could actually be kicked. This way two people have to be pissed off or just mean in order for this sort of thing to happen. That or just be really careful about who you decide to make an officer.
Evilsod
Isn't completely random kicking of entire guilds usually caused by a hacker taking the piss?
If you promote people that unhinged to be in control of the ability to kick everyone thats your fault. Same as if you join a guild who's leader may do the same...
Theres a reason Officers exist above Members and below the Leader. The Leader trusts them. If he has no real reason to trust them yet puts em as officer anyway he's got no-one but himself to blame. Wouldn't be much point in trying to kick someone as an officer if you had to wait for the leader to come online to comfirm it, the leader is only 1 person, he can't be on 24/7.
If you promote people that unhinged to be in control of the ability to kick everyone thats your fault. Same as if you join a guild who's leader may do the same...
Theres a reason Officers exist above Members and below the Leader. The Leader trusts them. If he has no real reason to trust them yet puts em as officer anyway he's got no-one but himself to blame. Wouldn't be much point in trying to kick someone as an officer if you had to wait for the leader to come online to comfirm it, the leader is only 1 person, he can't be on 24/7.
Hell Raiser
lmao @ Sir Skullcrasher's comment
The only real solution to this is to stop it before it can even start, do not promote anyone who is quick to anger, do not promote anyone you do not know (doesn't have to be in Real Life, just make sure you have played with them), a big thing I have seen is that people promote young children (~10-15or so) who simply are not mature enough to control their anger or take a joke and they tend to handle things in a very childish manor by destroying the guild as best they can.
Some other things can really harm your guild for promoting the wrong person, the issue the OP stated is one. There is also things like Rating that can ruin your guild for that ladder season, although this is not common because there is a req of half of the team being Guildies, but if the person really intends to do you harm they will get other guildies on their side.
Just be careful who you promote, have some kind of screening process or just keep everyone as members so the Leader has the only control.
EDIT: also a good thing to do as a Guild Leader, Officer or even member is document your guilds activites. It is not hard to take a screenie every so often of the Status and Guild Members. As well if you see an argument begin (even if you are a member) try to step in and break things up so it does not get out of hand, this is not only beneficial to the whole guild, but it may change peoples views of you for the better (as long as you handle "stepping in" maturely and don't just say "Shaddup you whiner babies").
The only real solution to this is to stop it before it can even start, do not promote anyone who is quick to anger, do not promote anyone you do not know (doesn't have to be in Real Life, just make sure you have played with them), a big thing I have seen is that people promote young children (~10-15or so) who simply are not mature enough to control their anger or take a joke and they tend to handle things in a very childish manor by destroying the guild as best they can.
Some other things can really harm your guild for promoting the wrong person, the issue the OP stated is one. There is also things like Rating that can ruin your guild for that ladder season, although this is not common because there is a req of half of the team being Guildies, but if the person really intends to do you harm they will get other guildies on their side.
Just be careful who you promote, have some kind of screening process or just keep everyone as members so the Leader has the only control.
EDIT: also a good thing to do as a Guild Leader, Officer or even member is document your guilds activites. It is not hard to take a screenie every so often of the Status and Guild Members. As well if you see an argument begin (even if you are a member) try to step in and break things up so it does not get out of hand, this is not only beneficial to the whole guild, but it may change peoples views of you for the better (as long as you handle "stepping in" maturely and don't just say "Shaddup you whiner babies").
Kuldebar Valiturus
Officers need to be "johnny-on-the spot" response to guild management, especially when the Guild Master is not online. There's nothing wrong with officer rank having /gkick ability, you just have to appoint your officers accordingly.
I would advise Guilds not to have too many officers, keep the numbers down.
In other online games, guilds could become really large, in Guild Wars this isn't an issue because of a fairly low membership cap. Setting up a guild hierarchy is pretty straightforward and manageable.
I would advise Guilds not to have too many officers, keep the numbers down.
In other online games, guilds could become really large, in Guild Wars this isn't an issue because of a fairly low membership cap. Setting up a guild hierarchy is pretty straightforward and manageable.
Dutch Masterr
keep in mind my guild isnt some small half-assed guild....the guy was an officer for a long time, and you cant tell me that theres something wrong when someone can just completley destroy a guild at will...while the leader isnt even online!
Evilsod
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus
Officers need to be "johnny-on-the spot" response to guild management, especially when the Guild Master is not online. There's nothing wrong with officer rank having /gkick ability, you just have to appoint your officers accordingly.
I would advise Guilds not to have too many officers, keep the numbers down. In other online games, guilds could become really large, in Guild Wars this isn't an issue because of a fairly low membership cap. Setting up a guild hierarchy is pretty straightforward and manageable. |
If someone begins begging to become, you can almost guarantee they're not officer material. Sadly some people give in to that crap...
Kuldebar Valiturus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Someone been watching V for Vendetta?
If someone begins begging to become, you can almost guarantee they're not officer material. Sadly some people give in to that crap... |
Haha, actually the phrase came into usage sometime around 1896.
But, I do watch BBC and BBC America.
The argument the OP is making is a very old one, but also very misguided. Virtue springs from free will, imposed restrictions will serve as a cage.
gameshoes3003
Ouch, well man, even though it would take a hell a lot of money, but in the Guild History you can track down most of the people that were kicked. I don't think it'll record all 85, but that's the way I've fixed past guild kicking or something wacky with the alliance.
Antheus
"Starting new guild. First 5 members become officers."
And people are surprised why?
No matter who has the power, the power is abusable. It happens with leaders - what next, leaders can't kick anyone?
This is part of human nature. In GW, there are no consequences, so people are free to flip out.
The real problem for so many inter-player issues in GW is simply the complete anonymity. No safeguards can help with that.
If your guild was functional, you'll surely get back together.
And people are surprised why?
No matter who has the power, the power is abusable. It happens with leaders - what next, leaders can't kick anyone?
This is part of human nature. In GW, there are no consequences, so people are free to flip out.
The real problem for so many inter-player issues in GW is simply the complete anonymity. No safeguards can help with that.
If your guild was functional, you'll surely get back together.
Redfeather1975
It wouldn't hurt to have a better guild system.
Everquest 2's guild system blows Guild Wars' out of the water.
Everquest 2's guild system blows Guild Wars' out of the water.
Navaros
You can't "appoint officers properly" as a solution to this problem because you can never predict the behaviour of another person with certainty.
This has needed be fixed for ages. One of my Officers in an early Guild of mine also kicked a ton of people out of that Guild for no reason and without permission, many of whom were not on for weeks and there was no way to add them all to friends list to invite them back to the Guild when they come online.
It's not an issue of trust, he seemed like a great guy and we played together for many months before he was an Officer, during which he seemed totally responsible and trustworthy.
In reality, no one can be trusted, so having a major mechanic of the game that relies on trust is fundamentally problematic.
The current mechanic of Guild Officers being able to kick everyone without permission is a griefers' paradise, and there is no reason why it should be.
This does indeed need to be changed.
/signed
This has needed be fixed for ages. One of my Officers in an early Guild of mine also kicked a ton of people out of that Guild for no reason and without permission, many of whom were not on for weeks and there was no way to add them all to friends list to invite them back to the Guild when they come online.
It's not an issue of trust, he seemed like a great guy and we played together for many months before he was an Officer, during which he seemed totally responsible and trustworthy.
In reality, no one can be trusted, so having a major mechanic of the game that relies on trust is fundamentally problematic.
The current mechanic of Guild Officers being able to kick everyone without permission is a griefers' paradise, and there is no reason why it should be.
This does indeed need to be changed.
/signed
Kuldebar Valiturus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
You can't "appoint officers properly" as a solution to this problem because you can never predict the behaviour of another person with certainty.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
One of my Officers in an early Guild of mine also kicked a ton of people out of that Guild for no reason and without permission, many of whom were not on for weeks and there was no way to add them all to friends list to invite them back to the Guild when they come online.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
It's not an issue of trust, he seemed like a great guy and we played together for many months before he was an Officer, during which he seemed totally responsible and trustworthy.
In reality, no one can be trusted, so having a major mechanic of the game that relies on trust is fundamentally problematic. |
Being trustworthy is a virtue that must be earned. It's a quality that only becomes known to others when it is demonstrated.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
The current mechanic of Guild Officers being able to kick everyone without permission is a griefers' paradise, and there is no reason why it should be.
This does indeed need to be changed. /signed |
If you don't trust the people, you make them untrustworthy.
-Tao Te Ching
Age
The only person who does the kicking is me The Leader but the officers if I had more of them can promote and recruit.
Lethorn Maeran
hah, a mate of mine was in this guild, just told me lol.
Arkantos
Simple solution: Don't let idiots become officers.
Xiaxhou of Trinity
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus
To the OP: this isn't problem Net needs to fix.
Make the title of Officer mean something, only promote reliable people with enough maturity to handle being an officer It really is that simple. There's no 100% guarantees in life, we can only surround ourselves with quality people and hope for the best. |
-.-
You can't make things foolproof, there will always be officers that will kick members for stupid reasons. Only way to actually prevent something like this is to have no officers just a Leader.
Kuldebar Valiturus
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Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
I'd like to try something different. Make the officer position mean NOTHING. Promote everyone to officer, 0 members. Therefore nobody can kick anyone else, nobody can make threats "shut up or I'll kick you".
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
The only thing with this is.....People might not have interest since putting the position on a pedestal may sometimes give people an incentive to sticking with the guild and playing as a quality person. I counter-if you're not being yourself and just kissing up, then go somewhre else instead of my guild.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
Another attack on my idea: Then how would people know if you truly trust them or not? I say.....as guild leader I trust each and every person in guild, heck if they need something or help on a quest I"m there, no charge of item or service because that's my idea of a guild. I believe that "close-knit" and "small guild" dont have to go together. Anyways, I don't like being hassled for officer position or saying to people "No I can't promote you." I was doing this when my guild was two weeks old, now that we're about two months old I think I'm going to retry it and see how it goes.
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Just because someone slaps on a guild cape and joins a guild doesn't make them worthy of trust, they still need to earn it. As long as they are able to earn that trust and prove their integrity then everything will fall into place.
Puliver
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr
keep in mind my guild isnt some small half-assed guild....the guy was an officer for a long time, and you cant tell me that theres something wrong when someone can just completley destroy a guild at will...while the leader isnt even online!
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Puliver
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Simple solution: Don't let idiots become officers.
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Toffe Crisp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
I'd like to try something different. Make the officer position mean NOTHING. Promote everyone to officer, 0 members.[/B](god i love those bastards).
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Barrett
you may think this is stupid idea but ive had it in my head for awhile
Member : just in guild
Officer: Can Recruit (Cant Kick)
Co-Leaders: Can Kick officers and members , recruit and promote members to officer
Leader: Can Kick Any1 Promote/Demote Co-leaders , officers and members
that way if u get some1 say can i be an officer so i can help recruit they cant take nearly as much control as guildleader after inviting some1 to the guild
if you dont like my idea please tell me if u do please tell me i'd really like to know what people think of it
Member : just in guild
Officer: Can Recruit (Cant Kick)
Co-Leaders: Can Kick officers and members , recruit and promote members to officer
Leader: Can Kick Any1 Promote/Demote Co-leaders , officers and members
that way if u get some1 say can i be an officer so i can help recruit they cant take nearly as much control as guildleader after inviting some1 to the guild
if you dont like my idea please tell me if u do please tell me i'd really like to know what people think of it
Toffe Crisp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Barrett
Co-Leaders: Can Kick officers and members , recruit and promote members to officer
know what people think of it |
but then u still have the issue of who to trust with kicking people
Thomas.knbk
In our guild everyone is officer and it works like a charm.
no need to change it imo
no need to change it imo
Puliver
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk
In our guild everyone is officer and it works like a charm.
no need to change it imo |
. Just give all rights to everyone as you have now.
Lonesamurai
I've had no issues in nearly a year... My officers are in charge of both recruitment and saying goodbye to people and I let them vote on officer promotions, I only have a vote if its a tied vote
The5thSeraph
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Simple solution: Don't let idiots become officers.
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Take it to its logical conclusion and the only truly manageable guild is a guild with just one member.
Which is precisely what I've done now.
I got so sick to death of having guild-spammers trying to sign me up to their guilds that I made my own mono-guild. I've only got the name and the cloak so far... No point getting a Guild Hall for myself alone just yet... but at least this way my guild cloak matches my 15k armour (delightfully pink) and I have my own title on the end.
So basically... yeah. If officers are banning people... have no officers. If other members are complaining... have no other members...
Ferret
I agree that officers having the ability to kick guild members can be a problem, because no matter how well you think you know someone, you cant account for a moment of stupidity.
Mostly it does all come down to communication. I try and have regular chats with my officers and make sure that they are all okay and see if there are any issues. We also have a guild forum so officers and members can post issues there to, when and if they have them.
I have also tried to make being an officer mean something too. It is not freely given, it has to be earnt. We even have a set structure for becoming an officer so its fair and equal for all.
Once an officer, we have a set of officer responsibilities and that includes not kicking without consultation with me (the leader) or other officers first.
Mostly this works. There have been a few minor incidents, but nothing serious and always resolved in the end.
Communication is key.
Mostly it does all come down to communication. I try and have regular chats with my officers and make sure that they are all okay and see if there are any issues. We also have a guild forum so officers and members can post issues there to, when and if they have them.
I have also tried to make being an officer mean something too. It is not freely given, it has to be earnt. We even have a set structure for becoming an officer so its fair and equal for all.
Once an officer, we have a set of officer responsibilities and that includes not kicking without consultation with me (the leader) or other officers first.
Mostly this works. There have been a few minor incidents, but nothing serious and always resolved in the end.
Communication is key.
Kuldebar Valiturus
Wherever you go there you are... O.o
Even after adding new ranks with custom permissions you will still end up having to trust or not trust other people.
Someone commented that "even people you do know" can be idiots. True, I suppose anyone can go postal. But, the point is, is that's life, get over it!
People aren't ones and zeros, and you have to learn to deal with it. No matter how many boxes you place your self and other people in, you will still have to face the fact that everyone is an individual.
The best way to get along with people is to build a cooperative relationship by investing some time.
Not every investment pays off, but most do.
It's a founding principle of civilization, after all.
Even after adding new ranks with custom permissions you will still end up having to trust or not trust other people.
Someone commented that "even people you do know" can be idiots. True, I suppose anyone can go postal. But, the point is, is that's life, get over it!
People aren't ones and zeros, and you have to learn to deal with it. No matter how many boxes you place your self and other people in, you will still have to face the fact that everyone is an individual.
The best way to get along with people is to build a cooperative relationship by investing some time.
Not every investment pays off, but most do.
It's a founding principle of civilization, after all.
Swampgirl Inez
This is the suggestion forum, yet I see very few suggestions for a new idea. From the Index of Ideas thread: Guild leader can regulate powers of different officers
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