How to make new classes popular

Was just thinking about which class to use for my new character and was looking at Assassin, Dervish, Ritualist or Mesmer (because I've never done any of these). Then I decided against it due to the difficulty in getting into groups and into the like of FoW/UW. Made me realise that to make a new class popular Anet need to ensure they can be used in these ways. Granted they initially may be hammered coz people want to try them, but after that, most people go back to the core classes.

You reckon there's more to it than this or am I about right?

BTW (Have noticed a lot of Dervish of late, are these any good for farming with (solo or groups)?

Dervishes and Assassins are very good classes when played properly. Dervishes especially are excellent farming characters. Both are used extensively in GvG and other PvP. The problem with them in PvE is that there were/are many players who tried playing them as just another variation of a warrior, which doesn't work. They require much more micromanagement to play effectively. The overpopulation of them at the beginning of the their respective chapters contributed to the mass hate, but that's to be expected of any new class.

People definitely are warming up to the Ritualist I think; spirits are always appreciated and some people even like the idea of ritualists being primary healers (gasp!)

Mesmers have always been misunderstood. They're not flashy, they generally have weak AoE effects, and when they do their job best all the rest of the group really notices is that the mission becomes much easier than they thought it'd be.

Skyy is right on point.
Then couple that with the fact that the general community aren't very creative or self thinkers.
Mostly, they wait for a good build (team or solo) and copy it, to the point where in certain areas/missions, if you don't fit that very specific mold, your are not welcomed.

If the entire land of Cantha wasn't exploding Afflicted guys (esp the first mainland mission, before most players get their final set of armor), Pug would be less derogatory to the Assassin. Pug is simpleminded most of the time.

Nothing annoys me more when playing an assassin and other players go after my target. The AI I can understand, it is dumb as dirt and I wish there was an "ignore my target if another target is around" switch. I have a short attack chain to go through, I didn't go after some guy a little bit further out and load Mobius Strike so I couldn't kill the level 28 thing within 8 seconds or less by myself.

It's especially annoying when I'm in the perfect position for Death Blossoms.

All of the specialty classes excel at something. Ritualists can run full Restoration and Splinter Weapon at the same time. Dervishes can use Ebon Dust Aura while doing very good adjacent area damage. Paragons are not flimsy with their spears, even after the unbuff.

As someone said before and I agree with, Paragons suffer from the problem of asking "how can the team change to be effective with me" as opposed to "how can I change to be effective for the team." Stand Your Ground and the shout that gives life once someone is hit are the only ones unconditionally useful to any class. Go For the Eyes is awesome, but only your attackers and your deep wound skill is going to get something from it.

I love the new classes, even if I think the paragon and dervish have very generic armor, and that they (to include the ritualist and assassin) still need some work on their skillsets. Assassins really need some generic melee energy attacks to give them an alternative to attack chains. Malicious Strike was a nice gesture, even if it is conditional.

The primary classes are mostly done, though certainly not perfect. We're more likely to see dual-attribute skills like Lion's Comfort for them next.

You're dead on with the PUG situation. I've never been in a team with an assasin in the likes of UW/FoW because people are just not prepared to take them (although I would). Same for ritualist, paragon etc ... This stops me even attempting to use these classes in these places, yet when I played them in PVE on my own (doing the missions) they can be extremely strong. People need to change their outlook on other classes and give them a chance.

The only new profession I hadn't had in a FoW group was the ritualist. The three others - assassin, dervish and paragon - all worked wonders. Assassin provided excellent DPS along with the Dervish (who was able to tank a bit, as well) and Paragons brought along awesome support. And these were PUGs, as well.

I think it's only the elite missions that bring trouble to the new classes, as the high-level monsters and large mobs ask for only the gimmick builds.

That's the only reason why people called assassin "noobs". They had a very low armor, and went toe-to-toe with the Afflicted baddies, and of *course* they're gonna die. You were melee, you had to kill them, you had only 70 armor maxed, not very fair at all.

About the difficulty of getting into Fow groups:
90% of Fow groups suck. With my friend as warrior, and my warrior, we cleared up to the forgemaster and finished the quests for our FoW helms. We used heroes, with no runes, and I'm sure that an assasin, dervish, rit, or paragon could do the same.
Dervish:
16 Scythe Mastery
Crippling sweep
Assasin:
shadow prison, caltrops, any snare
Rit:
Spirit spam
Paragon:
Stand your ground/incoming, or motivation spammer

I'm sure there are much better builds out there, but that's just a taste.

So you concluded that people have prejudice and are single-minded?
Nothing new.

In my year of 10 months of playing my mesmer (which i play the most) I have NEVER been rejected from a group due to being a mesmer.

The mesmer is defiantly one of the most powerful classes out there, they'll hit you hard for doing just about anything. Wether you like to degen em to death, hit em with so much domination magic they just die, or do anti-attack goodness...and so much more its not even funny.

So give em a try...you'll have fun.

I feel it's worth pointing out that every single class you mentioned is capable of soloing parts of the UW, FoW, or both.

The stigma with assassins is that when factions came out, they looked cooler than rits, so EVERYONE tried them. There were towns full of assassins, and most people tried to play them like warriors (I saw A/Mos using mending, etc). Then they hit the afflicted portion of the campaign and got owned by their soul explosions, people concluded that assassins suck, and have never truly gotten over it.

I prefer to run Restoration to monking. It's unconventional, and tbh, easier :P

There are still assassins using mending, along with warriors, rangers, and I even ran across a mesmer using it yesterday. What the hell they are thinking, I dont know.

It's sad that some people never learned how to effectively play the game.

"Unpopular" classes are UNIQUE and therefore predige

I have...

Lili The Psychis (Mesmer)
Ming The Cunning (Assassin)
Ming The Soulgazer (Ritualist)

All unpopular class. I don't have paragon because I don't feel like making new characters now.

That Conviction and/or Mending Refrain aren't good enough?

...........

They suck so much less than Mending. Maintained Enchantments are fairly limited; I might seriously think about a PvE smiting monk if Strength of Honor was just a plain enchantment you could toss on a guy.

How to make the new classes popular - give them the same armor as the Warrior.

Since the general (utter lack of any) skill level of most PUG players will never change, it is obvious that any new classes with the AL of a Sin or Derv are gonna be likewise unpopular.

Then again, most people don't care if PUGs won't take them thanks to Heroes who are way better than PUGs anyhow. Amen for Heroes.

Classes are fine. Putting mesmers in the list there is a clear indication of that.

The problem these classes share, is that they aren't Tank, Nuker, MM/SS or healer. They cannot replace any of those, since they require different party set up, something PUGs cannot offer.

There are two solutions to that:
- Guild groups
- Heroway

I think the real problem is most PUGs are people who aren't able to beat the game by themselves. When I include random PUGs in my group, I have no intention of making a full team of humans. Just vaguely desire the potential for conversations, something more interesting than rote combat I've gone through a billion times in the hamster maze that is PvE.

Then they say the (t)ank word, I tell them there is no such thing (aside from the veil of meat MM brings) and they leave. So often. It's been nine months since I've bothered accepting insta-vites in my guild groups with empty slots.

Well the reason why those class are rejected. I can see that majority of people running around misson are rushers.They arnt really prepared to play like their class mean to be. So their skill ar are messed up and not having an elite skill.
And when the misson falied they just blame others not them self and the target usually those non core class.Because they dont know what those class can do.

I'm a bit ambivalent about the assassin: I've played with some very good players using the class brilliantly, and played with players who had a 60% DP halfway through a mission.

I love the rit--it feels sometimes to have the flexibility of a ranger--especially with a variety of secondary professions.

And the Dervish makes the best of 70 AL with all kinds of enchantments and avatars that other classes can't touch.

Some of the problem is, I agree, that these classes don't seem to fit "easy spots," or don't at first glance, seem easy to use and maintain.
For example, I'm still learning how to manage sin energy with the attack chains, and not sacrifice damage.
The need for the chain of attacks is an inherent obstacle in the 'sin class that prevents people from understanding it: people need to a) put three skills into the bar, and b) recognize that those skills are contingent on previous skills and on conditions on you and the enemy. This requires communication and coordination--which might be more thought than people want to exert.
The rit has similiar skill contingencies--energy boosts only while holding items, or healing spells contingent on nearness to a spirit...

These are notably different in their very nature from many of the skills of the original 6 professions: stances, bow attacks, axe attacks, single-cast spells and spikes like SS or Vamp gaze or Conjure Phantasm or whatever. Many skills from core classes could, in pve, be "fire and forget," and not NEED the link to other skills. (yes, I know linked skills could be MORE effective... but an Assassin MISSES off-hand attacks if not preceeded by a lead attack: S/He NEEDS the linked skills. Not much like that happens to warriors or rangers).

So what I'm saying is that new classes are a bit less popular because they are, at first glance, a little harder to play, a little more like niche roles to fill parties, and require a slightly different style of play by the player. When players learn that, then they're closer to mastering the class, and closer to achieving popularity.

Im sorry but it really gets to me when people make posts like this.
what the ...so thats an actual FACT?

you know that it's been proven that 43% of all statistics are useless yea?
90% from your experience? A little bit of a co-incidence that you where in the sucking groups? seriously dont pin this on other groups, speak for yourself

Lately I became addicted to assasin however everytime I try to join a FoW group I'm always refused, I know the pain

Assassins - Used to be highly unpopular due to all the Narutards and such making them, but now they are highly powerful, still more PvP oriented but seriously good when used right. (Can we get something more than that A/W BoS build tho?)

Rits - Allways welcome in my experience, although most people saw them as just another monk (Quite fun to annoy people by putting up offensive spirits and watch them rage quit on you because you aren't what "THEY" want in a Rt)

Paragons - Used to be good, but then Anet nerfed the hell out of them. Now they are TERRIBLE.

Dervishes - Were allways good. Just too many of them. AoG provided much needed easy access enchant hatred to deal with the prot fests that drag matches out longer than needed. Nothing to complain about here.


The problem with these classes is they are just outside the Holy Trinity that is the Core Classes (Minus Mesmer). If you aren't a class that is easy to understand, people just reject you because they can't be bothered trying to figure you out. Anyone can be highly effective at one of the new classes, but the majority of leaders don't want to wait around to see it.

It would be really cool if it ever became common that groups would get together without any of the core classes. Ah, the dreaming.

I know my sin with its access to 3 different builds hsnt struggled too horribly in finding groups for PVE.

Its hard at times but once I tel people how the critical barrage, or A/D critical scythe and even my critical interupter builds work people generally take me. and as a bonus he was my most cost effective character to ever make

When I had a rit I found I didnt struggle too much to find groups but yeah way back in the day peope didnt like that I was more a focus on aggresive spirits and minion bombing instead of support heal untill they saw what the bomber man could do.