It's a spear head! It is embedding in your body! Of course their's a deep wound! Why does a person have to be moving, or not moving, or ensorcelled, or eating at the time of the attack to get a deep wound?
What's with the Conditional Deep Wound?
Darkpower Alchemist
I am really trying to understand why the Paragon has no solid DW skill. All of them, to my understanding, are conditional. They are chucking a spear into your body, but can't cause a decent deep wound? That sounds very ridiculous to me. If their is a skill that I have missed, please tell me, but if not, tell me what you think is the reason for all the DW skills to be situational. In a logical way of thinking, it makes no sense at all.
It's a spear head! It is embedding in your body! Of course their's a deep wound! Why does a person have to be moving, or not moving, or ensorcelled, or eating at the time of the attack to get a deep wound?
It's a spear head! It is embedding in your body! Of course their's a deep wound! Why does a person have to be moving, or not moving, or ensorcelled, or eating at the time of the attack to get a deep wound?
clawofcrimson
another attempt to keep the para from being 'overpowered' I guess
ss1986v2
whats wrong with conditional deep wounds? not every new class has to be equal to that of a warrior in every single way. besides, warriors only have access to unconditional deep wound in the axe line:
[card]Decapitate[/card][card]Dismember[/card][card]Eviscerate[/card]
along with three other conditional:
[card]Gash[/card][card]Crushing Blow[/card][card]Swift Chop[/card]
and then two random inflicting condition skills:
[card]Drunken Blow[/card][card]Desperation Blow[/card]
as for the paragon, they have 5 conditional deep wound skills, one of which is elite:
[card]"Find Their Weakness!"[/card][card]Cruel Spear[/card][card]Merciless Spear[/card][card]Slayer's Spear[/card][card]Vicious Attack[/card]
along with a skill that self inflicts a deep wound:
[card]"It's just a flesh wound."[/card]
then comes the dervish, which has two conditional deep wounds, and one unconditional with a drawback:
[card]Reaper's Sweep[/card][card]Wearying Strike[/card][card]Wounding Strike[/card]
then the sin, who has three deep wound skills, all requiring some form of condition (must follow X attack):
[card]Twisting Fangs[/card][card]Impale[/card][card]Augury of Death[/card]
finally the mesmer, who has two spells that cause a deep wound, one of which is conditional:
[card]Accumulated Pain[/card][card]Phantom Pain[/card]
so, the issue is that paragons dont have the same ability to deliver deep wound as the warrior does. but the thing is, no other class does. the warrior class is the class of the deep wound. while paras do have a lower ability to deliver deep wound than a warrior, they have things that balance themselves with the warrior: a plethora of team enhancing shouts, chants, echos, (covering everything from speed boosts, to hex removal, to +dmg, to energy return, to added deffense, and so on), a superior primary attribute, the best IAS in GW, all with a 80 armor level.
yes, in a realistic world, a spear should be able to deliver a unconditional deep wound, but so should a sword. so do we need to add a unconditional deep wound to the sword line as well? its just how Anet has set up the skill lines.
[card]Decapitate[/card][card]Dismember[/card][card]Eviscerate[/card]
along with three other conditional:
[card]Gash[/card][card]Crushing Blow[/card][card]Swift Chop[/card]
and then two random inflicting condition skills:
[card]Drunken Blow[/card][card]Desperation Blow[/card]
as for the paragon, they have 5 conditional deep wound skills, one of which is elite:
[card]"Find Their Weakness!"[/card][card]Cruel Spear[/card][card]Merciless Spear[/card][card]Slayer's Spear[/card][card]Vicious Attack[/card]
along with a skill that self inflicts a deep wound:
[card]"It's just a flesh wound."[/card]
then comes the dervish, which has two conditional deep wounds, and one unconditional with a drawback:
[card]Reaper's Sweep[/card][card]Wearying Strike[/card][card]Wounding Strike[/card]
then the sin, who has three deep wound skills, all requiring some form of condition (must follow X attack):
[card]Twisting Fangs[/card][card]Impale[/card][card]Augury of Death[/card]
finally the mesmer, who has two spells that cause a deep wound, one of which is conditional:
[card]Accumulated Pain[/card][card]Phantom Pain[/card]
so, the issue is that paragons dont have the same ability to deliver deep wound as the warrior does. but the thing is, no other class does. the warrior class is the class of the deep wound. while paras do have a lower ability to deliver deep wound than a warrior, they have things that balance themselves with the warrior: a plethora of team enhancing shouts, chants, echos, (covering everything from speed boosts, to hex removal, to +dmg, to energy return, to added deffense, and so on), a superior primary attribute, the best IAS in GW, all with a 80 armor level.
yes, in a realistic world, a spear should be able to deliver a unconditional deep wound, but so should a sword. so do we need to add a unconditional deep wound to the sword line as well? its just how Anet has set up the skill lines.
Thom Bangalter
Paragons attack from range. Ranged deep wound could be game breaking, so they balanced it by being conditional.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
Paragons attack from range. Ranged deep wound could be game breaking, so they balanced it by being conditional.
QFT, if there was an easy ranged deep wound, everyone and their brother would carry it and we'd have a giant spikefest.
Crazyvietguy
So Cruel Spear doesnt count? I think thats a good deep wound skill.
Plus.. [skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill] + [skill]Vicious Attack[/skill] anyone?
Plus.. [skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill] + [skill]Vicious Attack[/skill] anyone?
ss1986v2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy
So Cruel Spear doesnt count? I think thats a good deep wound skill.
Plus.. [skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill] + [skill]Vicious Attack[/skill] anyone? well, both of those are still conditional deep wounds, which is what the OP was talking about.
but yeah, i completely disregarded the ranged aspect, which would be pretty crazy. heck, some of the paragons deep wound skills, while conditional, are still easily met, which is why everyone runs them.
Plus.. [skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill] + [skill]Vicious Attack[/skill] anyone? well, both of those are still conditional deep wounds, which is what the OP was talking about.
but yeah, i completely disregarded the ranged aspect, which would be pretty crazy. heck, some of the paragons deep wound skills, while conditional, are still easily met, which is why everyone runs them.
Milan-V
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
Paragons attack from range. Ranged deep wound could be game breaking, so they balanced it by being conditional.
Maybe: requires 4 spear mastery?
But I think you are right.
Maybe: requires 4 spear mastery?
But I think you are right.
Darkpower Alchemist
I understand the point of fearing it will break the game, but they might as well make monks use bo staffs to defend themselves if they want to take away from the fact that a spear should be able to inflict a deep wound on par with any warrior weapon.
Sever artery+Gash=deep wound. So why not the same for a spear? Game breaking, I can't say it would be, it just would be similar to a warrior's ability. Now, if you say that a warrior should be the only one that can do that, that is your opinion and I accept it. If you say it would cause a spike fest, well it already is. Spiking is all one can do to really get around the heavy enchantments. It's to the point that a warrior without adeep wound skill is considered useless.
So, the conditionals have a purpose of balancing the Paragon? He would be better off throwing rocks, and he still has a chance to inflict a deep wound with a big rock.
I understand what you guys have said, but all you've pointed out is that Warriors can and everyone else can if "X" happens. Spears aren't spells. An axe elite does it, a sword only needs to have a bleeding individual,and DW is possible.
What seperates an axe, a sword, a hammer and a spear? Spear heads are half the length of a short sword ingame, but can't at least get the same DW function as a warrior and his classic combo? That's what my point is. I have a skill to make them bleed, but I need a warrior to cause the DW? Just doesn't sound very logical when you look at the implement and its application.
Sever artery+Gash=deep wound. So why not the same for a spear? Game breaking, I can't say it would be, it just would be similar to a warrior's ability. Now, if you say that a warrior should be the only one that can do that, that is your opinion and I accept it. If you say it would cause a spike fest, well it already is. Spiking is all one can do to really get around the heavy enchantments. It's to the point that a warrior without adeep wound skill is considered useless.
So, the conditionals have a purpose of balancing the Paragon? He would be better off throwing rocks, and he still has a chance to inflict a deep wound with a big rock.
I understand what you guys have said, but all you've pointed out is that Warriors can and everyone else can if "X" happens. Spears aren't spells. An axe elite does it, a sword only needs to have a bleeding individual,and DW is possible.
What seperates an axe, a sword, a hammer and a spear? Spear heads are half the length of a short sword ingame, but can't at least get the same DW function as a warrior and his classic combo? That's what my point is. I have a skill to make them bleed, but I need a warrior to cause the DW? Just doesn't sound very logical when you look at the implement and its application.
Spura
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1986v2
along with three other conditional:
[card]Gash[/card][card]Crushing Blow[/card][card]Swift Chop[/card]
yes, in a realistic world, a spear should be able to deliver a unconditional deep wound, but so should a sword. so do we need to add a unconditional deep wound to the sword line as well? its just how Anet has set up the skill lines. To be fair, conditional on Gash and Crushing Blow are trivial for their respective attributes. Sever+Gash for instance and you aren't throwing away 1 skill slot for it, because you'd bring sever anyway since it is useful on its own. Same for KD of choice + Crushing for hammer. You are probably bringing a KD anyway if using a hammer. There is no such combo for spears, no prep up attack. The only real options are Vicious and Cruel, Slayers spear condition is really never met or if it is, the target is so high in HP that you aren't spiking with it.
[card]Gash[/card][card]Crushing Blow[/card][card]Swift Chop[/card]
yes, in a realistic world, a spear should be able to deliver a unconditional deep wound, but so should a sword. so do we need to add a unconditional deep wound to the sword line as well? its just how Anet has set up the skill lines. To be fair, conditional on Gash and Crushing Blow are trivial for their respective attributes. Sever+Gash for instance and you aren't throwing away 1 skill slot for it, because you'd bring sever anyway since it is useful on its own. Same for KD of choice + Crushing for hammer. You are probably bringing a KD anyway if using a hammer. There is no such combo for spears, no prep up attack. The only real options are Vicious and Cruel, Slayers spear condition is really never met or if it is, the target is so high in HP that you aren't spiking with it.
dgb
I'm not convinced that there's any reason you would bring sever along on it's own if gash wasn't conditional upon it. It's 6 DPS at best and it's most definately not spikey - in fact it's pretty damn poor IMO without gash.
Spura
Never said it was spikey. But if you play pressure warrior and keep switching targets, the bleed gets annoying to clean off and if left unattended it bleeds 150 HP. If sever artery is crappy then so is barbed spear. The point was that you aren't bringing a skill that does nothing on its own but trigger DW on the next one.
ss1986v2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spura
and id have no problem if there was some kind of barbed spear/gashing spear skill combo. that would be fine, but it is still conditional. this seems like ppl actually want different conditions rather than the ones that are available, not that they shouldnt be conditional.
id much rather use two skill slots on "GFtE" and a skill like vicious attack, than waste a skill having to bring barbed spear to land the proposed gashing spear. at least "GFtE" offers some kind of decent effect.
dgb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spura
Never said it was spikey. But if you play pressure warrior and keep switching targets, the bleed gets annoying to clean off and if left unattended it bleeds 150 HP. If sever artery is crappy then so is barbed spear. The point was that you aren't bringing a skill that does nothing on its own but trigger DW on the next one.
If you play a pressure warrior your bar looks like [skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Sever Artery[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill] so you have it for gash anyway. The whole idea of condition spreading pressure warriors is a bit garbage tbh, if I want condition spreading people for pressure I use rangers, or paragons to a degree. If I want in your face damage pressure then I use warriors.
Barbed spear is good on it's own (to a degree anyway), sever isn't. The difference is that there's a transmission cost, the paragon hits tab then hits barbed spear and smacks another person with bleeding. The warrior hits tab, runs to get there, gets pre-kited (if in PVP) and wastes five seconds of auto-attacks trying to spread the condition.
Barbed spear is good on it's own (to a degree anyway), sever isn't. The difference is that there's a transmission cost, the paragon hits tab then hits barbed spear and smacks another person with bleeding. The warrior hits tab, runs to get there, gets pre-kited (if in PVP) and wastes five seconds of auto-attacks trying to spread the condition.
Darkpower Alchemist
Alright, we have now come to a next empasse in the debate. If the Sever artery+Gash=DW is considered conditional(which in retrospect it is, but more controlable), then a spear combo of a similar nature could in fact be useable and just as controlable, if not more so.
The thought of it being even better than the current warrior classic combo would be obvious. Though,kiting would still make it not a constant scenario, it would still be very advantageous during combat, but not any more than the warrior version.
My original point is still that the conditional natures of the current DW skills for a paragon just make you jump through hoops or bring a conditioon that takes more luck than skill or more skill than should be needed to achieve the DW goal.
The thought of it being even better than the current warrior classic combo would be obvious. Though,kiting would still make it not a constant scenario, it would still be very advantageous during combat, but not any more than the warrior version.
My original point is still that the conditional natures of the current DW skills for a paragon just make you jump through hoops or bring a conditioon that takes more luck than skill or more skill than should be needed to achieve the DW goal.
ss1986v2
i agree that a sever/gash style combo would work for spear mastery. i do think that the proposed "gashing spear" skill would have to be a bit of a lesser version of gash itself. the reason being that its a ranged attack. i just think that if you are going to have ranged deep wound skills, the conditions to achieve it need to be a bit tougher to reach, or the skill needs to be toned down when compared to melee ranged deep wound. notice how barbed spear costs less than sever but has a greatly reduced duration of bleeding. some combination of decreasing the +dmg, reducing the deep wound duration, or increasing the adren cost of the "gashing spear" should help to keep it balanced with other melee ranged deep wounds (for example, no plus dmg, same duration, 7 or 8 adren).
Darkpower Alchemist
[skill=big]Vicious Attack[/skill]
So far, if this is mixed with [skill=card]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill] and a high Command att, you would almost never not get a deep wound. However, the fact is that a decreased DW skill would be inferior to the current skills that are in use to some degree. if not similar to the above skill, the thought is inferior and shouldn't even be considered.
Ease of application to be sacrificed for overall effectiveness just isn't workable, and we all know it.
So far, if this is mixed with [skill=card]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill] and a high Command att, you would almost never not get a deep wound. However, the fact is that a decreased DW skill would be inferior to the current skills that are in use to some degree. if not similar to the above skill, the thought is inferior and shouldn't even be considered.
Ease of application to be sacrificed for overall effectiveness just isn't workable, and we all know it.
Spura
Vicious + Gtfe require 2 high attributes though. If you have only 33% extra crit on GTFE then it isn't reliable, so you need high command and high spear mastery, warrior's combos are in the same attribute.
clawofcrimson
[card]"find their weakness!"[/card] [card]"go for the eyes!"[/card]
with 3 martial weapon users on your team... this rarely fails to apply DW right away (of course its not in the spear line ...but whatever)
with 3 martial weapon users on your team... this rarely fails to apply DW right away (of course its not in the spear line ...but whatever)
LouAl
All this debate about conditional or not, why not just bring Merciless and then hit them after 50% health? I mean, you are trying to kill them anyway right. Just wait until they are more dead to hit with the DW. It isn't as if you really need the 21 seconds worth of DW, 3-4 seconds is all you should really need to have...
clawofcrimson
because thats just too conditional. it should read like this:
merciless spear , 5e, 2recharge, unblockable deep woundage for 20 seconds
/end sarcasm
merciless spear , 5e, 2recharge, unblockable deep woundage for 20 seconds
/end sarcasm
Darkpower Alchemist
To bring things back into perspective, the use of GfTE and Vicious Attack is how I inflict DWs with my Paragon.Yet, as said previously, it takes a high command and spear to achieve an effective percentage to achieve the DW on a consistant basis.
The thought of a gash type of spear skill would be nice, but until then,this or Cruel Spear are the better of the grouping within Spear mastery,imo. However, the use of so many types of conditions to achieve what warriors,sins, and mesmers do with one or 2 skills is just disgusting. If you want to make DW for paragons conditional, at least one should make it where it's a condition that can be met in timely and efficeint manner.
The thought of a gash type of spear skill would be nice, but until then,this or Cruel Spear are the better of the grouping within Spear mastery,imo. However, the use of so many types of conditions to achieve what warriors,sins, and mesmers do with one or 2 skills is just disgusting. If you want to make DW for paragons conditional, at least one should make it where it's a condition that can be met in timely and efficeint manner.
lorinton
Deep wound is just the tip of the iceberg. How about bleeding, poison, blind, cripple, slow, knock down, health degeneration, strip enchantments, prevent enchantments, block, prevent block or reduce damage? Want to do a bunch of those with your assassin, no problem. The bigger paragon problem for me is lack of options. Hopefully that improves in the next chapter.
As far as unconditional deep wound options go, you still have to avoid a block or dodge so isn't really unconditional.
As far as unconditional deep wound options go, you still have to avoid a block or dodge so isn't really unconditional.
Darkpower Alchemist
I agree that options lack with the paragon, but in all honesty the sin does every trick in the book to kill its opponent, which is exactly what it's supposed to do.
The sin should also have an instant daze/death move called "Kitchen Sink". Then it would be complete.
The sin should also have an instant daze/death move called "Kitchen Sink". Then it would be complete.
Akimb0
Deep wound is one of the most effective conditions you can place on someone anyway, making it conditional ( easy conditions mostly as well. ) just stops it being too unbalanced.
( However the masses of other weak/useless skills is blegh -_- more spear skills please! )
( However the masses of other weak/useless skills is blegh -_- more spear skills please! )
Feed Me Faction
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawofcrimson
another attempt to keep the para from being 'overpowered' I guess
So True. Sometimes I wonder why A-net even made Paragons. They got nerfed once so I was like " It's not that bad", then it happened again and well..yeah. High energy cost for chants/shouts, shorter durations, conditional Deep Wound skills, what's next? Armor Reduction?
Akimb0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me Faction
So True. Sometimes I wonder why A-net even made Paragons. They got nerfed once so I was like " It's not that bad", then it happened again and well..yeah. High energy cost for chants/shouts, shorter durations, conditional Deep Wound skills, what's next? Armor Reduction?
I just wish I'd had a chance to play them before their skills were made so.....poo.
Darkpower Alchemist
My Paragon builds are adrenaline based, so energy is hardly a problem until a mesmer or a necro uses the right hex/spell.
However, the spear attacks are energy based as well,but with the right chants and shouts, the energy pool is very effective when used with a decent leadership att and some radiant/attunement rune usage.
As for the skills, they're not bad, but they could be better.
However, the spear attacks are energy based as well,but with the right chants and shouts, the energy pool is very effective when used with a decent leadership att and some radiant/attunement rune usage.
As for the skills, they're not bad, but they could be better.
The Ernada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me Faction
So True. Sometimes I wonder why A-net even made Paragons. They got nerfed once so I was like " It's not that bad", then it happened again and well..yeah. High energy cost for chants/shouts, shorter durations, conditional Deep Wound skills, what's next? Armor Reduction?
I snicker when I see posts like these. Paragons and their skills are far better than you think.
As for DW, I don't find a problem applying it with GFTE and FTW. I think a Gash type spear skill would be too good though. Baseline spear damage itself is already good plus it's ranged. Some of the spear skills still need some work but that's true of any weapon line.
As for DW, I don't find a problem applying it with GFTE and FTW. I think a Gash type spear skill would be too good though. Baseline spear damage itself is already good plus it's ranged. Some of the spear skills still need some work but that's true of any weapon line.
Darkpower Alchemist
No one said that the skill line was bad, but it could be better, starting with a less conditional deep wound. Paragons are hurling spears, but can't cause a deep wound on par with a warrior? It just isn't very logical in a practical sense of thinking.
GFTE is what I use to make VA more useful,but that still take chance and a high command investment to get it done. Just too much hoop jumping to do it for such a character class.
GFTE is what I use to make VA more useful,but that still take chance and a high command investment to get it done. Just too much hoop jumping to do it for such a character class.
clawofcrimson
unconditional DW on a ranged attacker would be overpowered....definitely.
and practically speaking why is [card]cruel spear[/card] not logical... if the target is moving he wouldn't get stuck with the spear in the right place...
there is plenty of 'easy to get to' situations where you can apply DW
~target is below 50% hp
~target is not moving
~you inflict a critical hit. (which can be enhanced with other skills like GFTE)
~the next 'time' you inflict a critical hit.
~if the foe has more health than you.
not sure why anyone would complain about this...
and practically speaking why is [card]cruel spear[/card] not logical... if the target is moving he wouldn't get stuck with the spear in the right place...
there is plenty of 'easy to get to' situations where you can apply DW
~target is below 50% hp
~target is not moving
~you inflict a critical hit. (which can be enhanced with other skills like GFTE)
~the next 'time' you inflict a critical hit.
~if the foe has more health than you.
not sure why anyone would complain about this...
Darkpower Alchemist
The complaint I have is that DW skills for paragons takes some serious hoop jumping to get it done. Cruel Spear may take a more doable circumstance for it to apply a DW, but as an elite, I think it should'nt take that to make a deep wound. Compare it to Eviscerate, and see my point.
[skill=big]Eviscerate[/skill]
Classic axe warrior elite. Oldie but a goodie.
[skill=big]Cruel Spear[/skill]
LOL, seems I picked the right skills to compare. They are identical, save for the way the deep wound is applied. Adrenaline build up is needed for both, and the fact is that they are identical down to the letter,save the fact that Eviscerate is unconditional and Cruel Spear is conditional. Though the condition is easily met due to the fact that a person only needs to stand still, this could be the Eviscerate of the Spear Mastery line, and bring the line into the forefront. Nothing overpowering about suspending the "non movement" factor. It's an elite, so that would justify it being so.
Of course, some will say that would overpower the paragon, but the fact of the matter is that it wouldn't make it overpowered, but on par with its warrior counterpart.
[skill=big]Eviscerate[/skill]
Classic axe warrior elite. Oldie but a goodie.
[skill=big]Cruel Spear[/skill]
LOL, seems I picked the right skills to compare. They are identical, save for the way the deep wound is applied. Adrenaline build up is needed for both, and the fact is that they are identical down to the letter,save the fact that Eviscerate is unconditional and Cruel Spear is conditional. Though the condition is easily met due to the fact that a person only needs to stand still, this could be the Eviscerate of the Spear Mastery line, and bring the line into the forefront. Nothing overpowering about suspending the "non movement" factor. It's an elite, so that would justify it being so.
Of course, some will say that would overpower the paragon, but the fact of the matter is that it wouldn't make it overpowered, but on par with its warrior counterpart.
The Ernada
But you keep forgetting that spears are ranged. That's a big difference. And that has a nice advantage over melee especially since spears are almost sword/axe attack speed with almost bow damage.
I would SO abuse a non conditional DP spear skill....
I would SO abuse a non conditional DP spear skill....
zling
yeah the range is a big plus but also a none neglectable minus. melee attacks cant be dodged while ranged(both bow and spear) can.
and cruel spear is pretty equal to evis, a bit more in damage, ranged and easily met conditioned deep wound...
and for all you guys saying paragorns are useless, take a good look at the class before you say so... you say that because of the energizing finale nerf which was 1 broken skill that got completely reworked... paragorns are a very good class if you actually bother playing it...
and cruel spear is pretty equal to evis, a bit more in damage, ranged and easily met conditioned deep wound...
and for all you guys saying paragorns are useless, take a good look at the class before you say so... you say that because of the energizing finale nerf which was 1 broken skill that got completely reworked... paragorns are a very good class if you actually bother playing it...
Mekkakat
bottom line is...
ranged weapons have a distinct advantage to begin with, so for a paragon to even GET a DW, i think its seriously only fair that it has such a measly conditional cost of say (cruel).... standing still.. lol. thats not hard at all to achieve, cost less than say your comparison evis, and is raaaaanged! isnt that badass enough? paragons have some of the best DW in the game imho, but again, thats just me (plus i LOVE paragons :P). CRUEL SPIKE FTW!
p.s.
imagine a ranger with an UNCONDITIONAL dw....
interrupts...
daze...
good stances/evasion...
...and a deep wound on call on target?
yowzas.. they're already a rough class to deal with.. think about that! (i bet ya'll a billion bucks they get some for of dw in GWEN heheehe, that'll be nuts till they nerf it to death!)
ranged weapons have a distinct advantage to begin with, so for a paragon to even GET a DW, i think its seriously only fair that it has such a measly conditional cost of say (cruel).... standing still.. lol. thats not hard at all to achieve, cost less than say your comparison evis, and is raaaaanged! isnt that badass enough
? paragons have some of the best DW in the game imho, but again, thats just me (plus i LOVE paragons :P). CRUEL SPIKE FTW!p.s.
imagine a ranger with an UNCONDITIONAL dw....
interrupts...
daze...
good stances/evasion...
...and a deep wound on call on target?
yowzas.. they're already a rough class to deal with.. think about that! (i bet ya'll a billion bucks they get some for of dw in GWEN
heheehe, that'll be nuts till they nerf it to death!)
Shadowlion
For PVE it's usually enough with Cruel spear/slayer's spear or merciless
Sun Fired Blank
"Go For The Eyes!" @ Command: 10 + Vicious Attack @ Spear Mastery: 11 = DW: 75%. These are very easy numbers to achieve, and there is a bit of potential to increase them further.
Consider if you had an attack skill that read:
Adrenaline: 4
"If this attack skill hits, you strike for +16 damage, results in a critical hit, and you inflict a Deep Wound, lowering your target's maximum Health by 20% for 12 seconds."
That is roughly the power of "Go For The Eyes!" plus Vicious Attack.
Here is what I've tested in PvP:
[skill]"You're All Alone!"[/skill][skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill][skill]Barbed Spear[/skill][skill]Vicious Attack[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill][skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Consider if you had an attack skill that read:
Adrenaline: 4
"If this attack skill hits, you strike for +16 damage, results in a critical hit, and you inflict a Deep Wound, lowering your target's maximum Health by 20% for 12 seconds."
That is roughly the power of "Go For The Eyes!" plus Vicious Attack.
Here is what I've tested in PvP:
[skill]"You're All Alone!"[/skill][skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill][skill]Barbed Spear[/skill][skill]Vicious Attack[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill][skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
FakePC
i saw a 5 para 3 monk team crush people in HA one night they were spamming " go for the eyes" +"vicous attack" all night long
i started using that combo after that and noticed how fast me and the heroes and henchies slaughuter mobs
now i use it pvp
with a furious spear like prayer of the forgetten its almost at will
this is a really fun class to play try it out
i started using that combo after that and noticed how fast me and the heroes and henchies slaughuter mobs
now i use it pvp
with a furious spear like prayer of the forgetten its almost at will
this is a really fun class to play try it out
Darkpower Alchemist
I've seem to have started something good, and I like the responses I have garnered so far. Once again, the point was that Spears should give a DW on par with a warrior. Not saying that they don't give a solid DW, but just the fact that it isn't as consistent as say the Sever Artery+Gash combo(if this hits, you are DW'd.Period)
While every spear attack has some condition to meet. The thought of a spear not hitting the right place to cause a DW is interesting, but If it hit you in the arm and not the chest, it still had the chance to lodge in your arm or hit a major artery. If it hit you in your leg, it should cripple you. Yet, when you try to apply a DW, you might get one, or you might not?
[skill=card]Screaming Shot[/skill], causes Bleeding as long as you hit the enemy while they are in your aggro circle. Spear attacks have the range of a short bow(If I've heard correctly), and thus, have no such range. If they are closer, then a deep wound is more possible, due to the heft of the weapon and the range of the weapon.
A bow should have a KD skill,in my opinion, since an arrow can put a man on his rump rather easily. Arcing Shot should do just that, but it sucks and is rather useless currently. However, that should be based on range and not just unconditional. A close up arrow shot can surely in RL cause a deep wound. A spear,in comparison, should cause a DW at its current range rather easily.
The thought of a spear spike isn't unheard of or untested. Making a DW less conditional wouldn't change that. Also, take into account that DW isn't stackable if 5 Paragons/Warriors/Sins/Mesmers or whoever can cause a DW if they all have the same skill. The reason for similar skills on the different skill bars is obviously to avoid failure of the application. Multiple spear attacks can cause heavy pressure under effective IAS useage and consistency, but that goes for all such attack plans.
While every spear attack has some condition to meet. The thought of a spear not hitting the right place to cause a DW is interesting, but If it hit you in the arm and not the chest, it still had the chance to lodge in your arm or hit a major artery. If it hit you in your leg, it should cripple you. Yet, when you try to apply a DW, you might get one, or you might not?
[skill=card]Screaming Shot[/skill], causes Bleeding as long as you hit the enemy while they are in your aggro circle. Spear attacks have the range of a short bow(If I've heard correctly), and thus, have no such range. If they are closer, then a deep wound is more possible, due to the heft of the weapon and the range of the weapon.
A bow should have a KD skill,in my opinion, since an arrow can put a man on his rump rather easily. Arcing Shot should do just that, but it sucks and is rather useless currently. However, that should be based on range and not just unconditional. A close up arrow shot can surely in RL cause a deep wound. A spear,in comparison, should cause a DW at its current range rather easily.
The thought of a spear spike isn't unheard of or untested. Making a DW less conditional wouldn't change that. Also, take into account that DW isn't stackable if 5 Paragons/Warriors/Sins/Mesmers or whoever can cause a DW if they all have the same skill. The reason for similar skills on the different skill bars is obviously to avoid failure of the application. Multiple spear attacks can cause heavy pressure under effective IAS useage and consistency, but that goes for all such attack plans.
LifeInfusion
I'm surprised I miss this thread. Probably because I rarely go to the paragon forum. The reason why there is conditional deep wound is so that you cannot deep wound at range.
GfTE + Vicious attack is close to unconditional, but requires an additional skill and isn't guaranteed. 80ish% still isn't 100%.
Never mind that the combo isn't even requiring an elite.
GfTE + Vicious attack is close to unconditional, but requires an additional skill and isn't guaranteed. 80ish% still isn't 100%.
Never mind that the combo isn't even requiring an elite.