A "REAL" Dervish Tank

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

23 Feb 2007 at 02:06 - 1

Ok, in response to all the Dervish hate that yall have been complaining about, I am posting the build that I use in PvE in order to Tank and obsorb damage. Thats Right, this build is not meant to deal damage (although it does do that pretty well). It is primarily meant to sit in the front lines and take hits.

Here is the build:
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Chilling Victory[/skill][skill]Heart of Fury[/skill][skill]Mystic Vigor[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill][skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Scythe Mastery --> 11+1+3
Mysticism --> 11+1
Earth Prayers --> 8+1

In order to keep your energy up, make sure to apply enchantments only when they aren't up. Let them end and put them up as soon as they end. The reason why you wait for them to end is so you get the energy bonus from Mysticism.

Edit: Alternative Build For Armor Ignoring Damage

If you are going up against enemies that deal armor ignoring damage then you may get spiked down fairly quickly being a front line character in high level areas so I have come up with a solution to this problem as well as keeping your high armor for those physical damage creatures that you still may have to fight.

[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Chilling Victory[/skill][skill]Watchful Intervention[/skill][skill]Faithful Intervention[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill][skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Scythe Mastery --> 11+1+3
Mysticism --> 11+1
Earth Prayers --> 8+1

scrump

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mo/

28 Feb 2007 at 18:47 - 2

looks pretty good

D O T S

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2007

BornAgainHellions

A/E

28 Feb 2007 at 19:40 - 3

Looks good, though ive came up with the perfect sin build to take him out

GL HF

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

28 Feb 2007 at 19:51 - 4

Balthazar is kind of useless, why not go lyssa or melandru to pump out some extra damage, or even reaper's sweep?

l)l2UNl(

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

09 Mar 2007 at 05:16 - 5

actually i would go for balth b/c of the extra armor or melandrus would work

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

09 Mar 2007 at 07:39 - 6

You don't need the extra armour.

Arrows[PURE]

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

PURE PHOENIX

09 Mar 2007 at 15:43 - 7

Tbh I only take conviction or balthazar. I get a base 85 armor from the +5 armor per enchant. Mystic regen/mystic vigour/vital boon and sig of pious light for healing. Also i bring that pious skill that removes up to 3 hexes, forgot its name atm, but I bring that when i know im up against some bad hexes.

And btw if the build is not meant to do damage, why 14 in scythe mastery??????

The Real Roy Keane

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Dublin, Ireland

10 Mar 2007 at 03:39 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by D O T S

Looks good, though ive came up with the perfect sin build to take him out

GL HF Take out his PvE dervish?

Arrows[PURE]

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

PURE PHOENIX

11 Mar 2007 at 00:33 - 9

lol yep thats right. He gonna give it to anet nxt week for next chapter

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

11 Mar 2007 at 01:15 - 10

I would swap balthazar for [skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill] or [skill]Avatar of Dwayna[/skill]

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

18 Mar 2007 at 00:55 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by D O T S

Looks good, though ive came up with the perfect sin build to take him out GL HF

Its a pve build, not pvp. Also, You can come up with a build to counter any other build so I am not impressed...

Quote: Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy I would swap balthazar for [skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill] or [skill]Avatar of Dwayna[/skill] Thanks for the suggestion. I disagree though and I will tell you why.
-Dwayna - This build is energy intensive and because of that you will not be able to spam attack skills in order to make dwayna truely effective
-Melandru - Conditions arent a big problem in genergal in pve and the extra health doesn't seem to be as usefull as the bonus +40 armor that balthazar gives you. Av of Melandru is more of a pvp elite rather than pve honestly.
- this is a tank build and the best skill to use to tank something is av of balth.

Quote: Originally Posted by Skuld

Balthazar is kind of useless, why not go lyssa or melandru to pump out some extra damage, or even reaper's sweep? Why is balthazar useless? Do you think conviction gives enough armor where you wont be taking damage? WRONG!
Conviction helps and that is why I have it in there but you just can't pass up that 40 armor bonus. Also, with the new AI, enemies will be running away from your AoE melee damage and the added speed buff comes in handy. Because of this speed buff, your DPS is actually increased far beyond the capabilities of Reapers Sweep. Think about it, Reapers Sweep is most effective when the enemy is below 50%. If we already have chilling victory, Reapers sweep is not needed, by the time you use chilling victory, the target is already dead anyways about 80% of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrows[PURE

]Tbh I only take conviction or balthazar. I get a base 85 armor from the +5 armor per enchant. Mystic regen/mystic vigour/vital boon and sig of pious light for healing. Also i bring that pious skill that removes up to 3 hexes, forgot its name atm, but I bring that when i know im up against some bad hexes.

And btw if the build is not meant to do damage, why 14 in scythe mastery?????? Sence when do you get +5 armor from every enchantment on you?
About the 14 into Scythe, you can't make a dervish without dealing some damage. Although this build is made to stay alive and not die, dealing damage is something that can't hurt. The build doesn't need any more in Earth or Mysticism so might as well put it into Scythe. Also, Victorious Sweep Heals for more when you have more in Scythe.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

18 Mar 2007 at 14:52 - 12

there are so many things wrong with that post. It could take me all day to correct everything.

conditions arent a big problem and 200 heal isnt useful? wow......

m4rk6

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Older Gamers

18 Mar 2007 at 15:35 - 13

Conditions aren't a big problem in PvE? Heh, monks must love being grouped with you.

I'm sure your build does well in low-mid level areas where physical damage is the norm. But in high level areas where you meet a lot of armor ignoring damage, conditions and hexes, your build will suffer.

martialis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

RA, reporting you

18 Mar 2007 at 15:41 - 14

geez

I thought this was a 'look at the half-done build I made' post, not a 'stfu my build is perfect' post.

Since the game was released and fix your runes.

Why do you have 11 earth prayers? You can reduce them and not lose any benefit.
If you're having energy problems, why not use another attack skill like mystic sweep?
This build is not very original.

dinocroc109

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Dragon's Lair

CROCS

18 Mar 2007 at 16:59 - 15

I understand this is for a D/X, but if I were to want to add in wild blow for my D/W, which skill would go?

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

18 Mar 2007 at 23:36 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinocroc109

I understand this is for a D/X, but if I were to want to add in wild blow for my D/W, which skill would go?

I would go with taking out chilling victory just because victorious sweep is a nice self heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

I thought this was a 'look at the half-done build I made' post, not a 'stfu my build is perfect' post. It's not a half done build, its a complete build with nice self healing and armor buffing abilities. I'm not saying it is perfect for every situation but it is very strong in most situations. Comment on what you personally would change but know that others may agree or disagree and you have to be content with that. I know that some people wont agree with some of the skill choices and I apreciate them letting me know what they would change.

Quote: Originally Posted by m4rk6 Conditions aren't a big problem in PvE? Heh, monks must love being grouped with you. Conditions aren't a big problem in pve, it is true. There is not a single area in PvE where I would switch out Balthazar for Malandru for the soal reason that conditions are a major problem. Extinguish on your monks FTW!

Quote: Originally Posted by Coloneh

there are so many things wrong with that post. It could take me all day to correct everything.

conditions arent a big problem and 200 heal isnt useful? wow...... This is post spam. This post gives no insight to the thread or the reader and personally ticks me off because it is insulting and gives no explanation other than the fact that the person that posted is just looking for an excuse to flame about something.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

Why do you have 11 earth prayers? You can reduce them and not lose any benefit. Thank you for this particular section of your post and I will be changing it in the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4rk6

in high level areas where you meet a lot of armor ignoring damage, conditions and hexes, your build will suffer. Thank you for this particular section of your post as well because I completely forgot to mention the build alteration for when you go up against armor ignoring damage. Also, conditions and hexes don't hurt this build much because of mystic regen. Most conditions and hexes that you will noticably see are degen ones and this skill takes care of those nicely.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

18 Mar 2007 at 23:46 - 17

ok, want more insight? your build is crap. your tring to tank and you only have 4 useful skills on your bar: chilling, mystic regen, conviction, and res sig. the rest is crap.

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

19 Mar 2007 at 00:12 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

ok, want more insight? your build is crap. your tring to tank and you only have 4 useful skills on your bar: chilling, mystic regen, conviction, and res sig. the rest is crap. Again with the useless comments and sensless bashing of helpfull builds... Why not make positive suggestions to the build. What would you change?
Comment on the content of your post: you listed 4 skills that were usefull to tanking. Those skills were chilling victory, mystic regen, conviction, and res sig. What does chilling victory and res sig have to do with tanking? Do you even think before you post something? The usefull skills for tanking are; Mystic Vigor, Mystic Regen, Conviction, and Av of Balth. Heart of Fury also helps because the increased attack rate also increases the health gain of Mystic Vigor.

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

19 Mar 2007 at 01:01 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Sence when do you get +5 armor from every enchantment on you? Windwalkers insignia gives +5 armor for each enchant with a max of +15 meaning you have a base armor of 85. For a Dervish tank this would tend to be the "best" insignia. You should have little trouble with e-management and will almost always have three enchants up (and if you do not then none of the other insignias aren't going to help you anyway).

Not terribly far off what I use. I'm not a big fan of forms, never found I really needed them and hated the cool down. I use Reapers Sweep instead of Chilling and what I replace Balth with depends on where I am at and my party. For most of the game I use another attack (wild blow) or a build that spams "Go for the Eyes" (I usually have a paragon that applies a few echoes). If I'm in a place where I am taking too much damage I switch to Armor of Sanctity if I have someone giving conditions (I usually do) or use Vital Boon if not.

So far haven't found any place that gives me fits, beat all three games cleared most of ToPK and SF with her, heroes, and hench and that is pretty much the hardest places hench are allowed. Though, I'm not really sure what you expected with this, those that think Dervishes suck will continue to do so (there is no way this mostly standard build is going to sway their minds) and I rather suspect some of the above posts were more addressed at getting you to argue than anything else. At the least, a few of them are so ignorant I *hope* they were not being serious - but one never knows.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

19 Mar 2007 at 01:09 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

ok, want more insight? your build is crap. your tring to tank and you only have 4 useful skills on your bar: chilling, mystic regen, conviction, and res sig. the rest is crap. Mystic Vigor is not crap. Balth is overkill imo and Reaper's Sweep would be a better replacement imo. Chilling makes big numbers, but can cause scatter and is pretty energy heavy. I would strongly reccomend against faithful and watchful intervention. Keep Heart of Fury and consider [skill]Mending Touch[/skill] or some other utility skill that is specific to where you will be using the build.

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

19 Mar 2007 at 02:20 - 21

Thanks for some really nice imput Archon. Those suggestions aren't bad at all =).

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you like intervention skills?

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

19 Mar 2007 at 02:56 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Again with the useless comments and sensless bashing of helpfull builds... Why not make positive suggestions to the build. What would you change?
Comment on the content of your post: you listed 4 skills that were usefull to tanking. Those skills were chilling victory, mystic regen, conviction, and res sig. What does chilling victory and res sig have to do with tanking? Do you even think before you post something? The usefull skills for tanking are; Mystic Vigor, Mystic Regen, Conviction, and Av of Balth. Heart of Fury also helps because the increased attack rate also increases the health gain of Mystic Vigor. first, I didnt say they were useful for tanking i said they were useful. tanking is stupid and useless for everything except very specific situations (i.e. DoA). and a posotive suggestion is that you throw out the build, delete your dervish and make a new one. maybe you will learn something from the introduction area this time. Yes i think before posting, can you say the same? And i dont think anyone has even pointed out that balth has a full minute cool-down, what do you "tank" with during that time.? the skills i didnt mention arent horrible, but there are just better alternatives. try again?

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

19 Mar 2007 at 14:11 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Thanks for some really nice imput Archon. Those suggestions aren't bad at all =).

If you don't mind me asking, why don't you like intervention skills? Intervention skills takes up one skill slot for a single heal. If you are still in danger of dying after your other enchantments, then a single life saving heal won't do much. Also, a monk can heal you for the same amount over and over, so filling up a skill bar to do once what a monk will be capable of doing over and over is a waste imho.

jon0592

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

22 Mar 2007 at 00:46 - 24

Zealous Vow? So you don't have to wait for the enchantments to end as energy management.

The problem with tanking in PvE is that 95% of groups will tip into the group too much and the AI will still go for your casters.

WarKaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Los Angeles

SlingBlades

D/Mo

22 Mar 2007 at 15:53 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Intervention skills takes up one skill slot for a single heal. If you are still in danger of dying after your other enchantments, then a single life saving heal won't do much. Also, a monk can heal you for the same amount over and over, so filling up a skill bar to do once what a monk will be capable of doing over and over is a waste imho.
the intervention skills have saved my butt more than a few times....but that might just be me. But I honestly think is supposed to be used more as a spike damage health rather than a life saving heal like Word of Healing or Glimmer of Light. It eases some of the pressure of your monk when he knows he won't have to heal you if you get spiked while he's taking care of everyone else.

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

24 Mar 2007 at 23:11 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon0592

Zealous Vow? So you don't have to wait for the enchantments to end as energy management. I like the Idea that might be a good alternate to people that don't have a zealous scythe. With my zealous scythe, you can maintain energy good enough for this build.

Dean Harper

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

USA

The Killer Clan Musketeers [TKCM]

Me/E

25 Mar 2007 at 04:11 - 27

Im srry to say it, but i have to agree with a lot of ppl, Balth is basically crap unless your using it for running. A better elite would be Lyssa for the added damage. I know your build isnt meant to do dmg but it would be a nice addition dont you think? Also, Dwayna might work because of the extra health you would be gaining. Nice build overall, but honestly, Conviction and Balth is overkill on the armor. Also, as Archon stated, [skill]Mending Touch[/skill] would be a good thing to take. You might also consider [skill]Meditation[/skill] for extra energy, or [skill]Eremite's Zeal[/skill] since you will most likely will be surrounded by enemies.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

25 Mar 2007 at 06:01 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarKaster

the intervention skills have saved my butt more than a few times....but that might just be me. But I honestly think is supposed to be used more as a spike damage health rather than a life saving heal like Word of Healing or Glimmer of Light. It eases some of the pressure of your monk when he knows he won't have to heal you if you get spiked while he's taking care of everyone else. Intervention spells may save your butt, but it's usually better to maintain a damage reduction buff (such as Conviction) or have a constant influx of healing (Mystic Vigor) in order to prevent spiking from occuring rather than healing to make up for a spike taken imo.

Van vincing

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

LOST

D/W

25 Mar 2007 at 07:50 - 29

well balthazar + conviction isn't exactly crap, it can reduce a normal 400 dmg to 150. Also the speed and holy dmg allows u to quickly kill the casters first in the torment areas. Note tht torment areas the dmg u take is too great for u n ur monks to stop healing. I liked lyssa, but then i realized i have to constantly use self heal skills to keepy myself alive, thus wasting the form. But its only an opinion, so i dun have to be rite.

Silent Elvin Ranger

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

Ontario, Canada

25 Mar 2007 at 15:26 - 30

If you want to tank well, you should consider D/Me for Physical Resistance/Elemental Resistance instead of Balth. Physical Resistance is great for Dervs to give that armor buff they need sooo much. Elemental is there for when casters start hitting you harder than the Physical damage is. Well with these two skills, it would make this more a specialty build, probably good for Soloing beach in FoW

.

~Silent

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

25 Mar 2007 at 16:30 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Thanks for the suggestion. I disagree though and I will tell you why.
-Dwayna - This build is energy intensive and because of that you will not be able to spam attack skills in order to make dwayna truely effective
I thought dwayna's ability activates every time you use a skill, meaning that every time you spam one of those enchantments, it gives you health+removes hexes. I'd take a 50 health heal every 2ish seconds when you spam skills over 40 armor, which only reduces base damage and not the +damage from skills (and base damage is generally fairly low until you get to higher level areas where enemies are armor ignoring anyways). Plus, having stuff like crippling anguish, shadow of fear, or faintheartedness stacked on you sucks...and removing them would be great.

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

25 Mar 2007 at 22:18 - 32

you dont spam enchantments either. You cast them every 20 seconds. By the way, you shouldn't coment on a build if you have never even tryed it. There is no energy to spam skills, even with a zealous scythe.

There aren't any areas that have a bunch of armor ignoring enemies. I have been trying to find one area that has a bunch and i can't find any. And just for your own personally information, elemental spells aren't armor ignoring. The only thing that is armor ignoring is armor penetration, and that is only a percent of your armor, and life stealing. Now I know someone out there is going to go find that one location in the game that has life stealing overload just to be argumentative but I use this build for fighting all over nightfall, factions, and tyria and do great. When people say that Balth + conviction is overkill, they are dumb. 40+24+70 is the amount of armor you have with both. That equals 134 armor. That isn't overkill. Warriors have 120 armor against physical damage when they have watch yourself on (with about 11 in tactics) and that definately isn't overkill. You guys really need to put things into perspective before you start bashing something.
To all those that say tanks are worthless need to read some more of the updates to come. A-net is going to be screwing with the AI and from the looks of it, they will be changing it back to how it was prior to the AI nerfs. This means that the AI isn't going to be running from melee characters and will stick onto tanks.
WELCOME THE RETURN OF THE TANK!

Edit: I take back the part about saying it is not meant to deal damage because, with 15 into scythe, this build still deals plenty of damage.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

26 Mar 2007 at 02:54 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

When people say that Balth + conviction is overkill, they are dumb. 40+24+70 is the amount of armor you have with both. That equals 134 armor. That isn't overkill. Warriors have 120 armor against physical damage when they have watch yourself on (with about 11 in tactics) and that definately isn't overkill. warriors do damage. this dosnt

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

26 Mar 2007 at 03:27 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

warriors do damage. this dosnt Touche! This is a PvE build so it'll do just fine whatever skill set you throw at your Derv. Honestly though as far as being a threat on the battle field, if the computer AI had a brain (too bad they don't) they'd just walk past you and your "tanking" since your damage is mediocre at best.

Arrows[PURE]

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

PURE PHOENIX

26 Mar 2007 at 15:11 - 35

Havent looked at this thread for a while, i posted before that when im running3 enchants. To clear things up for the OP this is because I use the insignia which says +5 armor for each enchantment(max 3).
And this might just be me, but I'd only consider a real tank to be those W/E in DoA or those annoying E/D, because they do absorb and soak up all of the damage. With 14 in scythe, it just becomes your average derv. And yes i noticed uv took back your comment about it not meant to deal damage. good job lol

Utaku

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Paris, France

We eat pancakes [Yumy]

Me/

26 Mar 2007 at 15:34 - 36

I just don't get it.

People always try to turn their melee characters into tanks.
1-It has no use, except soloing and DoA.
2-It fails, IA will attack your monk anyway
3-It's boring. It's much more fun and requires more skill to deal damage with a melee.

Take an IAS, a running skill, a rez, a deep wound causing skill; add attacks and you get a much better build than this, hands down.

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Duality Of The Dragon

26 Mar 2007 at 16:52 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Touche! This is a PvE build so it'll do just fine whatever skill set you throw at your Derv. Just being a little cocky. Chaos Storm, Empathy, Rend Enchantments. Rip Enchantments, Soul Barbs, Mirror of Disenchantment, Shatter Enchantments, Spiteful Spirit, etc. You get the idea by now. Plenty of necromancers and mesmers flying around in PvE.

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

27 Mar 2007 at 00:38 - 38

Is this supposed to be tanking or damage? If its tanking then you need a snare, if not then drop Balthazar... or drop it either way, Avatars suck.

Earth Magic 12
Earth Prayers 10+2+1
Mysticism 8+1
Air Magic 3

Obsidian Flesh {e}
Grasping Earth / Aura of Thorns
Conviction
Mystic Regeneration
Armor of Earth
Vital Boon
Fleeting Stability
Shock

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

27 Mar 2007 at 01:29 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

your damage is mediocre at best.

Try the build before posting please. Any build with victorious sweet and chilling victory with 15 into scythe is not mediocre damage, its a lot of damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

warriors do damage. this dosnt You are wrong. Again, try the build before posting. You have made several posts in this thread acting like you know something and you are saying things that are just not true, plain and simple. You have not once backed up any statement that you have made with any sort of convincing arguement so I must ask you to please stop spamming the thread that I have started or at lease say something of value.

This build was made to show that dervishes aren't just another melee class that can't stay alive. Dervishes have the ability to self heal and self prot while still dealing massive amounts of damage better than any other class. This build was made to help other players get a build that is acceptable in the community as a build that will not get spiked down quickly like oh so many assassin pve builds out there.