Stats:
Swordsmanship: 12+3
Strength: 11+1 (through Helm)
Tactics: 4+1
Currently I have Platemail armor. I am looking forward to getting my 15k glads next, so suggest any combination of runes I should apply to that armor that should prove best for PvE use.
Skill Bar:
[skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Standing Slash[/skill][skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill][skill]Galrath Slash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
The idea is to start Enraging Charge and let it build upto Flail. Get Standing Slash charged up and try to keep all the attack skills charged (along with Lion's Comfort for healing) through the use of Sun and Moon Slash and Dragon Slash (Hasn't always worked till now).
The main thing is, this is the first time after I started playing the game that I am using Lion's Comform for healing rather than Healing Signet. I have used this build only for a little time till now as I just capped Dragon, and wanted to know how you guys feel about it?
Suggestions, comments, criticisms welcome.
My current PvE build for quests/missions (adrenaline based). Critique it
kumarshah
Katari
You'd be better off with:
12+3+1 Sword
12+1 Strength
rest in tactics
That looks like a fine sword build for an area not heavily populated by bleedable monsters, but generally I'd use Sever/Gash in place of Standing/Galrath, because deep wound is just that good.
12+3+1 Sword
12+1 Strength
rest in tactics
That looks like a fine sword build for an area not heavily populated by bleedable monsters, but generally I'd use Sever/Gash in place of Standing/Galrath, because deep wound is just that good.
LightningHell
I don't think you have the total 200 attribute points...the correct split, if it's 12/11, would be 12/11/6, not 12/11/4.
And I would prefer 12/8(Str)/10(Tactics) for Lion's Comfort. You still get to hit a breakpoint on Enraging Charge.
And I would prefer 12/8(Str)/10(Tactics) for Lion's Comfort. You still get to hit a breakpoint on Enraging Charge.
kumarshah
I haven't gotten the final 15 extra attribute points yet.
kazjun
It's nice enough, though if you're going adren dps its probably useful to fit "For great Justice" in. Maybe drop one of the attacks...
Katari
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
I don't think you have the total 200 attribute points...the correct split, if it's 12/11, would be 12/11/6, not 12/11/4.
And I would prefer 12/8(Str)/10(Tactics) for Lion's Comfort. You still get to hit a breakpoint on Enraging Charge. Oh, good point, I had forgotten that Lion's gets a greater return for points in tactics than in strength. The spread you listed would be better then.
And I would prefer 12/8(Str)/10(Tactics) for Lion's Comfort. You still get to hit a breakpoint on Enraging Charge. Oh, good point, I had forgotten that Lion's gets a greater return for points in tactics than in strength. The spread you listed would be better then.
RoadKill97
Sun and Moon Slash --> "For Great Justice!"
Lion's Comfort --> Distracting Blow or "Watch Yourself!"
Resurrection Signet --> Sunspear Rebirth Signet
The extra adrenaline gain from FGJ will allow you to use your attack skills far more often, and thus benefit more than an extra attack.
For a warrior self-heal such as Lion's Comfort or Healing Signet is largely useless in general PvE because you can rely on your teammates to keep you alive.
Distracting Blow is great for interrupting monsters' self-heals, annoying hexes (Visions of Regret, anyone?), and perhaps the most importantly, the overpowered AoE nukes, from bosses especially. I would never go without DB under normal circumstances, tbh.
Having extra ~20 al on all party members from WY is nothing to sneeze at. "Watch Yourself!" is quite easy to keep up all the time thanks to Dragon Slash.
You should do your last attribute quest A.S.A.P.
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Originally Posted by Katari
Lion's Comfort --> Distracting Blow or "Watch Yourself!"
Resurrection Signet --> Sunspear Rebirth Signet
The extra adrenaline gain from FGJ will allow you to use your attack skills far more often, and thus benefit more than an extra attack.
For a warrior self-heal such as Lion's Comfort or Healing Signet is largely useless in general PvE because you can rely on your teammates to keep you alive.
Distracting Blow is great for interrupting monsters' self-heals, annoying hexes (Visions of Regret, anyone?), and perhaps the most importantly, the overpowered AoE nukes, from bosses especially. I would never go without DB under normal circumstances, tbh.
Having extra ~20 al on all party members from WY is nothing to sneeze at. "Watch Yourself!" is quite easy to keep up all the time thanks to Dragon Slash.
You should do your last attribute quest A.S.A.P.
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That looks like a fine sword build for an area not heavily populated by bleedable monsters, but generally I'd use Sever/Gash in place of Standing/Galrath, because deep wound is just that good.
Deep Wound is good, but not good enough to waste two skill slots for it. As enemies usually die in 2-7 seconds under attack, I find it difficult to hit the combo before the monster drops, unless both Sever and Gash were already charged before attacking that foe. And against stronger foes... well, armor ignoring damage is just that good.
Katari
Adding sever, to allow the use of Gash, which does the equivlent of ~120 armor ignoring damage is bad idea? Against fleshy targets it is strictly superior.
RoadKill97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katari
Adding sever, to allow the use of Gash, which does the equivlent of ~120 armor ignoring damage is bad idea? Against fleshy targets it is strictly superior.
120 is nothing, really. And you can use Sever + Gash only once effectively per enemy. After that it's just reapplying conditions and +20 from Gash, well, assuming that the foe lives long enough.
I didn't mean to say it's bad, but for just plain killing there are better options.
I didn't mean to say it's bad, but for just plain killing there are better options.
qvtkc
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
120 is nothing, really. And you can use Sever + Gash only once effectively per enemy. After that it's just reapplying conditions and +20 from Gash, well, assuming that the foe lives long enough.
I didn't mean to say it's bad, but for just plain killing there are better options. First you throw away Sun and Moon from a Dragon Slash build, then you say that deep wound is useless. Why listen to you?
I didn't mean to say it's bad, but for just plain killing there are better options. First you throw away Sun and Moon from a Dragon Slash build, then you say that deep wound is useless. Why listen to you?
clawofcrimson
great build with an axe warrior to parter with
RoadKill97
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvtkc
First you throw away Sun and Moon from a Dragon Slash build, then you say that deep wound is useless. Why listen to you?
First, this is for PvE. Sun and Moon Slash does not deal much damage against high al targets. Go hit dummies, please. Remember that monsters have more damage reduction if they are higher level than 20.
And secondly, I said nowhere that deep wound is useless.
And secondly, I said nowhere that deep wound is useless.
kumarshah
Sun and Moon Slash is in there for the adrenaline gain from two strikes and damage output is still decent enough.
I see the point in FGJ, but once it ends and between the time it takes to recharge it I have seen it can get difficult to keep the attack skills up, while Sun and Moon Slash helps me with that.
I keep a self-heal as I never know when I will need it. I love Watch Yourself! too
I see the point in FGJ, but once it ends and between the time it takes to recharge it I have seen it can get difficult to keep the attack skills up, while Sun and Moon Slash helps me with that.
I keep a self-heal as I never know when I will need it. I love Watch Yourself! too
Cathode_Reborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
First, this is for PvE. Sun and Moon Slash does not deal much damage against high al targets. Go hit dummies, please. Remember that monsters have more damage reduction if they are higher level than 20.
That's the main reason I rarely use my war in pve. They get really screwed over when the lvl24+ enemies start appearing. Your damage output starts to get very low. Warriors can do huge amounts of damage against squishies, but sometimes they can't do much against those stupid monsters that anet puts in pve. Even a few lvl20 enemies have really high armor.
qvtkc
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
My point is that you should switch in For Great Justice, but not switch out Sun and Moon Slash.
Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97 And secondly, I said nowhere that deep wound is useless. No, but you said that it "is nothing, really. And you can use Sever + Gash only once effectively per enemy. After that it's just reapplying conditions and +20 from Gash, well, assuming that the foe lives long enough."
In the majority of cases you can use a certain attack skill twice, maybe thrice or if you are (un)lucky, four times on a certain enemy before that enemy dies. In that case, a deep wound-causing skill is a great choice because it does more damage than two uses of a +42 attack.
In the minority of cases, the enemy will live long enough for the other effect of deep wound to be worthwhile.
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In the majority of cases I cannot use attack skills even twice, unless those skills were already charged before attacking the foe. This is why I prefer independent skills instead of SA + Gash. I feel that I can't get enough use of Gash to make them worth of having.|
Originally Posted by Deep Wound
Condition. While suffering from this injury, your maximum Health is reduced by 20% and you receive less benefit from healing.
RoadKill97
The thing is that you have four attack skills. And then you also need FGJ, Flail, and Enraging Charge to make best use of your attacks. The last and the least is the resurrection skill. This all leaves you zero room for utility. For example, the combination of Dragon, Galrath, and Silverwing Slashes deals more armor ignoring damage and is only three attacks. There are no normal attacks in the chain after you get it going. Each attack also works independently, unlike Sever and Gash.
Originally Posted by qvtkc
Now, if you have hit dummies like you said, then you should now that you could replace Sun and Moon with Standing/Galrath/Silverwing. This gives 1.5 strikes less adrenaline (under FGJ) and about 25 more damage against high al enemies. I don't care about low al enemies, they drop fast enough in any case. Quote: |
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No, it doesn't deal more damage. Dragon + Galrath + Silverwing deals less armor-ignoring damage than Dragon + Gash.|
Originally Posted by qvtkc
In the minority of cases, the enemy will live long enough for the other effect of deep wound to be worthwhile.
I know the effects of the deep wound but I prefer to use Distracting Blow so they get zero healing. Of course you could say that other enemy might heal the target, but in very, very few cases enemies are competent healers, and in those cases, I take those enemies down first.
GourangaPizza
IMO I would replace Standing Slash with Silverwing Slash for unconditional high damage output. I prefer the "Galrath -> Silverwing -> Dragon" combo than the "Sun & Moon -> Dragon" combo, especially with Flail and FGH up. High damage output is guranteed.
Katari
If I wasn't going to use sever/gash on a sword build, I'd go straight to axes. It isn't hard to grab the 4a for Sever so it isn't all too much of a problem if I somehow have gash, but not sever charged.
qvtkc
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
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And no, I have utility, usually Watch Yourself (Koss pwns me at Distracting Blow anyway, so no use). I don't use Enraging Charge, sorry but Flail doesn't really need a cancel in PvE...
Quote:
In the majority of cases I cannot use attack skills even twice, unless those skills were already charged before attacking the foe. This is why I prefer independent skills instead of SA + Gash. I feel that I can't get enough use of Gash to make them worth of having.
In the majority of cases you fight not one, but several enemies, after the first one your attacks will be pretty much kept charged by Dragon Slash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvtkc
And no, I have utility, usually Watch Yourself (Koss pwns me at Distracting Blow anyway, so no use). I don't use Enraging Charge, sorry but Flail doesn't really need a cancel in PvE...
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Maybe I should have been more clear. Your first chain of Sever + Gash + Dragon will deal more damage but the second chain is greatly inferior because the foe already has bleed and deep wound. Dragon + Galrath + Silverwing will take the lead here. For Sever and Gash to be a better choice you'll basically have to kill your target in the first attack chain which doesn't always happen. And when the target dies, with DS + GS + SS you can continue the attack chain straight to the next foe. But with Sever and Gash you might have to gather a little bit of adrenaline, which is not a big deal, but when talking about efficiency every hit and every second counts. Pity there isn't 120 al dummie, that would prove my point easier than the 100 al one. In any case, Dragon Slash is a pretty good skill to use with Sever and Gash after all.|
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
I know the effects of the deep wound but I prefer to use Distracting Blow so they get zero healing. Of course you could say that other enemy might heal the target, but in very, very few cases enemies are competent healers, and in those cases, I take those enemies down first.
I prefer Spinal Shivers. Of course you could say hex removal, but that tends to be done by the same healers that are targeted first, as you say.
jesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvtkc
In that case, a deep wound-causing skill is a great choice because it does more damage than two uses of a +42 attack.
42*2= 84 armor ignoring damage
480*.2= 96 armor ignoring damage on most targets, plus 21ish from Gash Deep Wound is capped at 100 damage regardless of target's total HP. This means: On enemies that will die in short amounts of time, Deep Wound is a better deal. It speeds their death further and limits healing. On harder to kill targets, DW is probably not such a great choice. 3 attack skills hitting for +42/+43 will give you more damage than a Sever->Gash chain. Usually I'll run DW on a warrior, as no one else ever bothers to bring it.
RoadKill97
Katari, it's not the adrenaline that is my point but the fact that Sever + Gash isn't useful always. There are low al enemies who die too fast, then there are high al enemies who can take much more damage, and this is where +damage skills are superior. And of course there are enemies who don't even bleed making Sever + Gash completely useless. I'd say that for Sever and Gash to be at best you need to kill fleshy enemies with about 80-90 al. +Damage skills are always useful, regardless of the enemy.
Originally Posted by qvtkc
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You don't take Enraging to cancel Flail, though canceling Flail can save several seconds sometimes. You take Enraging to get Flail and your other adrenaline skills going to avoid suffering that awkward moment at the beginning of battle where you have no IAS and no attack skills to use, only normal attacks. With Enraging (and FGJ) you could get your SA + Gash charged in two attacks instead of five.
And I don't understand how Koss pwns you at Distracting when most skills you'd want to DB have 3/4, 1 sec, or longer activation times, and the AI will likely waste that interrupt on some less important skill.
Quote: Originally Posted by qvtkc
In the majority of cases you fight not one, but several enemies, after the first one your attacks will be pretty much kept charged by Dragon Slash.
I agree. That is what makes DS so great. But my point was that often these low al enemies die before I can use both Sever and Gash. Hitting with only Sever is not ideal when I could have used +40 attack.
2. What I mean with the second attack chain is that when you use your attack skills for the second time.
3. You need to gather adrenaline between Gash and Dragon, or either delay your attacks. You're not using an attack skill with every hit.
4. You're now bringing Sun and Moon up, though you weren't using the skill in your previous example, to which my example was a response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvtkc
2) I understand the use of Enraging Charge to get into the battle early, but seriously to go dry for three more swings and then go all out attacking for the rest of the battle doesn't worry me one bit.
FGJ lasts 20 seconds. Better make good use of that time than hitting normal attacks. Besides, more often than not, the first 15 seconds matter more than the last 15 seconds. And because of this, for example, elementalists use attunements before the battle instead of when the battle starts.Quote:
1. I didn't say you're using Sever for the second time against an enemy who is bleeding. I said that Sever is useless against an enemy who's already bleeding.|
Originally Posted by qvtkc
I prefer Spinal Shivers. Of course you could say hex removal, but that tends to be done by the same healers that are targeted first, as you say.
I'm not fond of idea having curses necro in my team and I having to use an icy weapon. Besides, daze is superior spell-wise.
But if we are going to go that route, have you considered someone else bringing the deep wound? An axe warrior or a paragon can inflict your obviously must have deep wound with only one skill slot! qvtkc
lol... sigh, Roadkill...
1) I don't use Sever on recharge, I use it on non-bleeding foes. So there will be no "second attack chain". There is only one attack chain, Sever - Gash - Dragon - S&M - Dragon - S&M - etc... every, and I mean every, swing is an attack skill. 2) I understand the use of Enraging Charge to get into the battle early, but seriously to go dry for three more swings and then go all out attacking for the rest of the battle doesn't worry me one bit. 3) That a spell has a 1 sec cast time doesn't matter when Koss interrupts it in 0.1 seconds (yes, 0.1, try it, it's as if he starts dblow before the enemy starts casting). 4) I'm going to go play some gw now.
RoadKill97
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvtkc
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2. What I mean with the second attack chain is that when you use your attack skills for the second time.
3. You need to gather adrenaline between Gash and Dragon, or either delay your attacks. You're not using an attack skill with every hit.
4. You're now bringing Sun and Moon up, though you weren't using the skill in your previous example, to which my example was a response.
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So since I use it on a non-bleeding enemy when I do use it the second time, it does have full effect? That seems logical? Or do you mean that I have to click the skills in a certain order?|
Originally Posted by qvtkc
3) That a spell has a 1 sec cast time doesn't matter when Koss interrupts it in 0.1 seconds (yes, 0.1, try it, it's as if he starts dblow before the enemy starts casting).
You're completely misunderstanding me. The cast time matters because you could interrupt instead of, or with Koss because you know what you would like to interrupt. The AI doesn't have a clue without your commands. And you're giving too much credit to the AI about it's interrupting capability.
qvtkc
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
2. What I mean with the second attack chain is that when you use your attack skills for the second time. |
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97
4. You're now bringing Sun and Moon up, though you weren't using the skill in your previous example, to which my example was a response.
Actually i was using it. My very first post in response to you was "First you throw away Sun and Moon from a Dragon Slash build ..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvtkc
I start using attack skills once I am one swing away from loaded Dragon. Sever -> Gash -> S&M (dragon is loaded) -> pingpong between Dragon and S&M. Of course, this is using FGJ. Hmm, speaking of that, would Infuriating Heat makes it even better? No S&M, instead just Sever -> Gash -> Dragon spam
So you delay your attacks, as I thought. What can I say? Spiking is not very important in PvE. It's fun though, that I can admit.Quote:
Neither. You have Sever Artery to cause unconditionally bleeding and bleeding only. Bleeding is a weak condition alone, and no-one would use Sever if bleeding wasn't required for Gash. To have one skill for nothing more than causing bleeding is not effective use of that skill slot in PvE, even though this allows you to cause a deep wound with a sword. If there was a skill equivalent of Dismember in the sword line, would you use Gash? Would anyone use Gash? I very much doubt it.|
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
FGJ lasts 20 seconds. Better make good use of that time than hitting normal attacks. Besides, more often than not, the first 15 seconds matter more than the last 15 seconds. And because of this, for example, elementalists use attunements before the battle instead of when the battle starts.
Maybe it takes you 15 seconds to load Dragon. I do it slightly faster, say in 5 seconds. And no, elementalists load attunements before battle so that they they won't have to waste 2 (or 4-5) seconds during it. For elementalists especially, it means more than warriors. During the initial seconds of an encounter, positioning means far more than skill use for melee characters.
RoadKill97
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Originally Posted by qvtkc
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And answer for your question, it's yes and no. Adrenaline gain is capped at 200%, and Infuriating Heat gives you +100% adrenaline for normal fighting, so you don't gain any more from FGJ, BUT IH doesn't give extra gain from Dragon Slash or Enraging Charge, so FGJ would still have some use under IH.
To make it simple:
- Under "For Great Justice!" you gain +50% adrenaline from normal fighting and +50% from skills
- Under Infuriating Heat you gain +100% adrenaline from normal fighting and +0% from skills
- Under both skills you gain +100% adrenaline from normal fighting and +50% from skills
Thus you cannot go DS --> DS --> DS --> DS, and so on without echoing the skill.
Btw, you could go Dragon --> Galrath/Silverwing/Standing --> Gash --> repeat, which is more damage than you get from your DS + S&M spamming. Gash deals +20 which about the same damage as you get from S&M against 100 al target. You would hit +42, +43, and +20. And there are no normal attacks between.
Quote: Originally Posted by qvtkc Actually i was using it. My very first post in response to you was "First you throw away Sun and Moon from a Dragon Slash build ..." Yes, you're using S&M in your build but you weren't using the skill in your example because you wanted to say "armor ignoring damage", which is something S&M doesn't do. For the same reason you didn't mention Sever either, though it's pretty obvious you need it for Gash.
Quote: Originally Posted by qvtkc Maybe it takes you 15 seconds to load Dragon. I do it slightly faster, say in 5 seconds. Add a second or a few for walking to the enemy and you get time that equals eternity. And you may want to read that 15 seconds thing again, this time with a thought.
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Damn, so much for my idea... But would really Dragon slash be recharged after hitting Gash? And what about once FGJ ends? Won't I be running dry much more with that version then?|
Originally Posted by qvtkc
...elementalists load attunements before battle so that they they won't have to waste 2 (or 4-5) seconds during it.
Exactly my point.
And answer for your question, it's yes and no. Adrenaline gain is capped at 200%, and Infuriating Heat gives you +100% adrenaline for normal fighting, so you don't gain any more from FGJ, BUT IH doesn't give extra gain from Dragon Slash or Enraging Charge, so FGJ would still have some use under IH.Quote:
No, I do not, as I said once I get rolling every swing will be an attack skill. I do delay for two swings more than you do, in the beginning, but I do pump out more damage than you for the remainder of the battle.
Quote: (...) Btw, you could go Dragon --> Galrath/Silverwing/Standing --> Gash --> repeat, which is more damage than you get from your DS + S&M spamming. Gash deals +20 which about the same damage as you get from S&M against 100 al target. You would hit +42, +43, and +20. And there are no normal attacks between. |
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Originally Posted by RoadKill97
The answer can be found in one of my previous posts.Yes, you're using S&M in your build but you weren't using the skill in your example because you wanted to say "armor ignoring damage", which is something S&M doesn't do. For the same reason you didn't mention Sever either, though it's pretty obvious you need it for Gash.
I meant that Gash is 120 armor ignoring damage, which is pretty much compared to 42. And since you can only (according to yourself) expect to use a certain attack skill once against any given enemy, Gash seems to be a pretty good choice.
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Originally Posted by qvtkc
Won't I be running dry much more with that version then?Quote:
I have already answered for this too but I'll make it clear: once FGJ ends, the enemies are dead.|
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
Add a second or a few for walking to the enemy and you get time that equals eternity. And you may want to read that 15 seconds thing again, this time with a thought.
10 seconds to join battle?
And what about once FGJ ends?
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The answer is in the text you quoted. You could also go test it yourself.
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Quote: Originally Posted by qvtkc I meant that Gash is 120 armor ignoring damage, which is pretty much compared to 42. And since you can only (according to yourself) expect to use a certain attack skill once against any given enemy, Gash seems to be a pretty good choice. Alright, you're missing there several of my points. Few things:
1. Weak enemies drop fast in any case
2. Against stronger enemies you can use +damage skills often
3. I said "in the majority of cases", I didn't say "against any given enemy"
4. Sever Artery and Gash are +20 damage, bleed, and deep wound (which often equals to 100 damage). Gash is nothing alone, and definitely not 120 damage
5. Reread some posts from others in the first page
Quote: Originally Posted by qvtkc Yea attacking from higher ground gives me a +20 damage advantage with warrior weapons. That is the most stupidest assumption I have seen in a while.
And frankly, I'm not going to answer to the rest of your post because you're assuming way too much, and I'm tired of repeating myself over and over. You haven't understood much of my posts, and then you dare blame me for the "lack of thought"!
EDIT:
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Originally Posted by qvtkc
Oh btw, I have tried both versions now, against all of the al 60-100 dummies. I also took both versions on a full tour of the Isle of the Nameless. In all cases my version killed faster. How's that for "assuming"? 
Dummies are level 20. Higher level enemies have more damage reduction against non-armor ignoring damage.Quote:
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