The Road to Mastery in Guild Wars PvE - What Is It?

Well met!

Guild Wars is a very deep game. Reaching lvl 20 with my Ranger, ascending, acquiring the skills to copy and understand the synergies of builds from Wiki, tweaking them to taste, joining a good guild, finishing Prophecies, etc., etc., etc., I find that I have just scratched the surface. Just one example: I have seen one of my guildmates with heros, with such a synergistic combination of skills, gear, runes and secondaries (aggressive lions for everyone, lol) . . . . I am in awe, lol! And even Godlike Achilles, in Guild Wars, cannot go it alone. I believe Mastery must of necessity be highly adaptable to the situation: who is the enemy, who are your team mates, etc. But I readily admit that I know nothing. I humbly ask the Masters among you to outline a path, a syllabus, that those of us wandering in the wilderness (yea, though I wander through the Crystal Desert, . . . lol) can follow.

Wo Tan Ki, Ranger, Knights of Shadowpeak (KoS)

P.S.: PvP is a different animal; it deserves its own thread.

only thing you need to know how to do is being able to correct your mistakes. If you fail a mission or something, don't just go at it again and hope it will work. Look at why you failed and then correct it.

the problem with most noobs in game is that they refuse to listen to any criticism and just assume that they know best.

I know I'll catch flak for this, but this is/was my personal path to really getting to know the PvE game...

Step 1 - Copy someone else's build, join a guild, learn to play the game with a maximum sized-party of guildmates.

Step 2 - Copy someone else's build, join maximum-sized PuGs.

Step 3 - Copy someone else's build, play the game with heroes with copied builds.

Step 4 - Copy someone else's build, play the game with henchmen.

Step 5 - Create your own build(s), play the game with heroes with copied builds.

Step 6 - Create your own build(s), play the game with heroes with builds you created.

Step 7 - Learn to beat PvE without a maximum size party.

Step 8 - Gradually trim your party size down, and learn to beat PvE with 1 or 2 heroes/henchmen.

Step 9 - Learn to beat PvE solo without any heroes or henchmen.

Please note that this is NOT meant to be condescending in any sort of way (and isn't meant to infer that one way of playing is better than others) - it is simply the path I am currently following in learning all aspects of the PvE game.

Personally I have been playing for over one year. I help with PvP tactics and I have PvE'd more then my worth yet, I feel that more can still be learnt. My best suggestion is to at least do the following per class:
-Obtain all skills for that profession
-Protector Title
-Cartographer Title
-Do lots of FoW and UW

Not only will that get you better at that class, but a better teamplayer(except for the cartographer, I'm still at 99% I think its just good bragging rights )

If you wanna be good a pve, just create your own builds with the skills that you get on the way, see what works best for each profession. Don't copy someone elses build or use heros. Just play with other people and you should be fine. The only time when you need to really copy a build is in the elite missions.

masterery....eh? You might need all or a great majority of skills, primary and secondaries, unlocked for that one char. That in itself is asking alot for a PvE char. You might need more than 8Mill exp for skill points to unlock all skills and the plat to pay for those skills.

Step 9 doesn't really work since solo builds vs party builds are completely different. This would be more like a split at your step 5.

Everyone rush to post a reply! Whoever posts advice will be considered a master! Lol. Judging by the op's wording, this was probably intended to manipulate us into jumping at the chance to give our advice. It worked.

Well it seems there is already some good advice concerning character development and quest/mission progression. I guess Ill throw something in here about working the economy.
If you want to make some money or acquire valuable items you can't jump right into farming uw solo and making a steady 30k an hour.
Here's the progression I've used (although it has been over the course of about 2 years lol)
-After making it through the game I farmed griffins and other random creatures for some foundation. Since I started playing certain "updates" have damaged the usefulness of this essential part of online rpgs so you may need to farm monsters and chests alternating between the two.
-You can also buy/sell items. buy 10 obsidian shards at 3k each and sell for 3.5 each and you'll make 5k in profit. This is a slow process sometimes though
-Next I used what I earned to make a w/mo runner and ran to droknars forge and to granite citadel. You can run people anywhere and so long as you know what you are doing its fairly steady pay. Back in the day Id make at least 20k an hour ( 1-1.5k per person and at the very least 2 runs an hour if i was screwing around) Running has become alot harder now though.
-After that you can make your first build worthy of Fissure of Woe Unerworld or Sorrows Furnace and gain some experience and a little gold.
-Continue Running and after you feel you know the 3 aforementioned areas, find a soloing build for one if not all 3(which is usually expensive to make) and make it with all the money and skill points you've earned at this point.
-A list of builds can be found at several GW websites for various functions. Among the most famous are the Invincimonk, SS Necro, and a few flavor of the month builds. Though the great thing about "soloing" is that you can design and test your own builds fairly easily.
-Soloing can be difficult to start with but keep practicing and you'll make more money than you know what to do with.

Learn patience and the ability to adapt. That's all you'll ever need.

Actually, I found that solo builds that you create (i.e. and not the popular copied ones such as the 55 build) often work very, very well in group settings.

It simply requires taking a very good build that you use in groups, and gradually tweaking it to be a bit more self-sustaining (i.e. less reliant on monk healing and ranger/mesmer interrupting). This is where the "learning" comes in - I wind up using, at one time or another, almost every skill available to my characters' primary and secondary professions in order to accomplish this.

I also wanted to pause to say that I am in various stages of development on each of my characters, and often learn how to progress by starting over with Step 1 on some of the harder missions/areas. I definitely do not consider myself a "Master" PvE player, by any stretch of the imagination.

PvE Mastery is simple.

Henchman, Heroes and Monks that just heal and don't cast crap like Firestorm.

A MM hero also works well, haven't lost a mission yet with full heroes and hench.

In missions, learn to Wiki.

In explorable areas, learn patrol routes.

There sadly isn't much to it anymore. Heroes don't make it more fun, just easy. But then why would you join a PUG, with the greater chance of failure, when you can herohench it, get the masters, and earn a wonderfully maxed title?

Heh. One of the main things I notice newbies doing badly is cross-classing. Don't do it until you know how to make a good build with your own class's skills. Once you know that, then you can figure out how another skill would complement your build. I have horrid memories of the Dervish I was playing with yesterday using Blood of the Master in a group with 2 MMs. -_-

.............whats wrong with that? Blood of the master heals All allied undead minions, dervs have boundless health regen, it would "work".....now that may not be what the guys was doing, but dont down grade someone to "nub" b/c they are using a nonstandard build

Learn to PVP effectively then apply lessons learnt to PVE. You'll find that PVE is stupidly easy...

One of the things that sets pve apart from pvp is the much larger room for error and with it the possibility of experimentation.

I think it's completely fine to copy builds when starting but even then I recommend you experiment with tweaking the builds. Change a skill or two in the build before each new quest or mission. Then decide if the new skill bar is better or worse than the original. Make changes to the build based on that before the next quest/mission.

If a skill looks decent to you try to find a way to include it in a build. Don't be afraid to dabble in your secondary profession. While this may often result in sub-optimal builds, you should still get through most missions/quests with proper positioning and pulling.

Once you're familiar with a lot of skills, you can try creating synergies with your char and heroes (e.g., Barrager with conflagaration, MM with bone fiends, Ele with Mark of Rodgort, Paragon with They're on Fire). There's some very interesting stuff you can also do with Arcane Mimicry to take advantage of controlling your heroes' builds.

Oftentimes, what makes one pve build stronger than another is affecting multiple foes (AoE damage - Barrage, Spiteful Spirit, Fire nukes, etc.) or multiple allies (e.g, Aegis, Watch Yourself!, Stand Your Ground, Wards) at once. At higher levels, interrupts can help or be downright essential, so you'll want to bring a couple of these on heroes or yourself along.

I stress experimentation because you will come to know the skills and various builds well. You'll come to recognize synergies. You'll also be able to tell if someone is using a subpar build on themselves or their heroes.

Edit: The reason I recommend varying builds is that you get to know the skills well in terms of their advantages, disadvantages, and situational utility. I like to pug and often when I do I run into a player using a really poor build on a hero. When said player dings the hero's skillbar usually no one in the party (besides myself) says anything b/c they don't recognize the skills (since they've been playing copied/static builds on themselves and their heroes). Reading the wiki skill lists is also helpful in this regard.

@ Viruzz's comment below: If you do your homework, then any area of pve is easy. However, many players (including myself) don't like to look everything up and we forget the enemies we faced in a given area due to having not played there in some time. Being able to adapt with a subpar build doesn't necessarily make you a master, but it makes you a better player. E.g., a paragon goes into the RoT with a lot of shouts/chants: the so-so player will say, "omg, VM is pwning me. rezone so I can change skills" while the more skillful player will stay in the backlines, away from the enemy necros and will continue unabated.

being a master at PvE doesn't come down to skill, as much as it comes down to knowledge, everything in PvE is predictable, and semi-static. so if you do your homework you can win any battle in PvE, just by knowing what you will be facing, and purposely bringing skills according to that.

This man has it right. If you want enumerated steps, try:
1. Start GvGing
2. Get good at the game via the above.
3. Apply skills learned & fly through any PvE.
Best of all, you can apply some of what you learn to getting good at other games as well.

/cookie4you

So true.

He used it in a team with 2 mm's. It almost killed him every time, and he was out in the front getting pounded on. Sorry, but while it may be "nonstandard" to do that, there's probably a reason it's nonstandard. Also, he didn't even have a clue why he was dying. He asked me and I had to tell him to look at the skill description again. Doh!

Still, my point still stands: people who cross class without knowing what they're doing just doesn't work out well.

One thing thats is important in pve is to know when to take a very brave retreat.
The first kind is the individual retreat, when you need to get out of the fray for a moment, and the second kind is when the team is very pressured because of a bad aggro. Then everybody should just turn around and run back, until aggro is broken. A good retreat can save a party wipe easily, whereas trying to stand and slay a too large mob can be a disaster.

I think a logical mindset is the key. With it you can adjust to any situation and reverse engineer just about everything. A 3D understanding of the world around you, the game world in this case, and how different assets interact.

In PvE your armor and weapons can't always be adjusted to your every build or situation, unless you have alot of money and mule characters, but you can adjust them to the most common situations like everyone does in PvP.

In build you need to note out objective. If you want someone interrupting they should be interrupting and not doing something wacky like healing, which takes takes up the same timeframe. That's not to say that an interrupter should be running full interrupt, they could have a group support skill like a hex removal, a nature ritual, or some other skill that enhances his damage ability.

In a human too many secular jobs will get confusing, and people should be informed as to what amount they will be doing a certain task. You obviously don't want your interrupter getting side tracked hunting hexes to remove.


In the long run, I think success lies in relativity of the build, skill of the runners, ability of the leader, communication, and information:

The build shouldn't be a random mix-up of popular builds, properly thought out.

The experience of the runners obviously has an effect on the party, although I believe just about all people can attain the same skill level with practice or mentality change. So if you're doing something with a guild or people you will play with regularly, any skill problem can be overcome if the person is willing.

The leader should not be afraid to say something to their group. You get this alot in this game. Everyone has their own popular mindset of what's right and what's wrong, and instead of discussing it the leader and everyone else keeps silent. It doesn't help a group. A leader should have experience in what they're doing or something relative to it. They shouldn't resist the opinions of others on a situation, as these can often be helpful, and resisting them could lead to upsetting members of your group. The leader serves the purpose of creating and maintaining order, not simply filling a power void in a group. Perhaps above all, don't be hostile with anyone and try to be as gentle as you can.

Communication is vital. People need to be directed as of what to do, where they're going and how to do it. Be aware that over specifying will anger your members, and some of them may have done the task before.

Information is the heart of all things competitive. It is hand in hand with communication. The more information you have on what you're facing, the closer you are to attaining your goal. In PvE this can be done with strategy guides, experiences of people in the group, experience from similar areas (for example, you fought charr at the last mission and on the way here, it looks the same, you'll probably fight charr again), etc. Also, there's visual and instinctive information, if you see a large group of charr coming, let the group know. If you think something will spawn or break through a door next to your group, make sure they're aware of it.

Oh yeah, good healers with good builds, with good equipment. Its also hardly ever necessary to run a popular group build in PvE, places like The Deep don't need to run the same 3 warrior, 3 nuker, 4 monk, 2 ranger builds as long as you're not using a full pug.

Yeah, well, anyway, so its about having a good understanding of the game mechanics and a solid team structure.

The way I see it, the important things are knowing thyself and knowing thy enemy.

- The ability to analyze the area and enemies you'll be facing and bringing specific counters. Sometimes requires a process of failing and learning from your mistakes.

- Ability to "think outside the box" and come up and use skill combos which have good synergy with each other, or, as suggested before, even builds on different characters and heroes that synergize with each other.

- Aggro control management. If you can't handle this, the inside of your bubble will become very much red-dotted.

- Think before you act. Discuss tactics and strategy and you find that you're much less prone to party wipes and deaths.

And of course, the ability not to call our fellow PvP players n00bs just because they prefer to kill real-life opponents as opposed to AI controlled ones.

It's funny - I personally have found that many PvP players share this same attitude, but when they cross over to PvE, they tend to fail miserably, unless they are playing with a guild group.

Step 1 - Have fun

Step 2 - repeat step 1 as necessary

[QUOTE=Traveller]
- Aggro control management. If you can't handle this, the inside of your bubble will become very much red-dotted.
[QUOTE]

QFT -- aggro control is the single most important thing you can learn in PvE.

I'm not going to search for it, but there's a screen floating around these forums of someone who finished THK using all henchies and a longbow, with no skills on his own bar. That picture pretty much says all that needs to be said about the skills needed to play PvE successfully.

I have been playing for 19 months now, though I hardly see myself as a master at Gw. I do, however, think that I have mastered my necro. I didn't do anything special, I just gradually bui;t up my repitoire and my knowledge base. At first, in Ascalon, I uilt myslef a little build, not very good, but useful. it got me through, to a point where i started to use minions, this was before I learnt about Wiki or pre set builds. I adoptd a build that suited my play style. Gradually I became mre aware of certain builds. i capped some elites, and built several builds around them. one of my earliest was a Grenth's Balance sacrafice build. I then went into the cookie cutter builds, SS, proper MMing, and BiP. I adapted those to my style aswell though. Now, alot more familiar with the game, and feeling i have mastered the main necroing parts, I will try to develop some of my own builds. i have a warrior and a monk, which i hope to develop in the same way. I already have built some adri builds for my wammo, so I feel i am entering the third last phase of 'mastery', with wammo's. And i am still running around with a little adated build on my mnok (WoH).

So, to summarise, see what fits your play style best, without looking for certain builds. Develop that style into a build. Adapt it as level requires. Play the main builds of a profession, and adapt to your own play style. This way, you'll know how best you play, and what works best with that style. Finally, make a build centering around your style, and you should already be a mst of it.

For mastery of having fun playing Guild Wars, skip immediately to step 6 and stay there.

Make yourself a ranger and get to elite missions and play

I wouldn't call that mastery, solo or duo uw, play doa with 2-3 heroes, knowing all the good farm spots and farm 100k a day, knowing all spells and classes, builds etc., are more the things I consider mastery in PvE. Ofcourse opinions differ.

That's because they are used to playing with people who don't suck at the game. Is that a failing of the player, or a failing of the PUG?

great i totaly agree and play nice and generous helping those who are begining

Mastery in PvE ->

C + Spacebar.. or in the case of a caller.. T + Spacebar.

But seriously,

I.. personally consider you mastered PvE if you're flexible in terms of builds and other people suggesting builds, and you can accept criticism when your W/Mo with Smite, or your Me/N Minion Master are told they blow.
If you run in PvE with a build that is the most effective one possible for your character, neglecting your own personal enjoyment.
You are a success in my eyes.

I'd like to know where you pulled this piece of crap "info" from. Let's just pretend that hell has frozen over and that you're right, where are all these PVP players saying that they've failed miserably at PVE? Please dont spout crap.

As stated previously - Have Fun / This is a game

Try giving your character a personality, not full role playing but mold the "history" of what you do as part of your self then use there back ground to "interpupt" how they feel about things going on in a different character.

Example - Eternal Tempest, survivor of Ascalon getting to the Faction and the two "factions" thinking. OMG your being destroyed and the two most powerful military powers are trying to kill each other after. Now when she reached nightfall... cool a single enemy... and more of this **** again . Now when Shiro / Lich showed up a bit of I put you down once this time I'm going to make sure you stay down.

Certain emotes will only be used character. Eternal dancing... um no way yes an ele that's self conscious of her armor revealing. But my monk on the other hand, frequently likes to exercise mediate while she waits and prepares for the quest the party about to go on to clear her mind.

Now a thing that crossed my mind of my asclaon character, where do I do when I die, Hall of Hero's, Paradise, and at least with my NF if this evil not stopped... oblivion.

I don't also "impose" any role playing on anyone that doesn't want it. Each plays there own style.

For me to "master" a chapter pve for a character, I require mapping of all town points, and completed the game and have every skill from the primary profession of my character from the chapter.

Fow/15k/Perfect Golds are cool... but I'm happy with moded collector's items, and "good" items that may not have high value. Essential not a requirement.

its more commen than u think, but possibly its a jink.

<pvpplayer>cmon, its PVE, its EAAAAAAAAAAASY.
<pveplayers>dont say that dude :/

*later*

<134345bad guys> hello there, we are level 28

or

*kaboooom* *kabooooom* *everyone dies from huge seige weapons*

the latter actully happened to me, with some snooby pvp person who had said it was easy, on venta cemitary

pvp players, on average probably have more ego, or quite simply dont wanna say they suck at pve cos of redicule

you can be good at pve, or pvp, or even both, but its stupid to get all elitest over it, there different, just enjoy what you like and dont bitch at the other guys.

mastery of gw pve comes down to experience, knowing game mechnics and skills, knowing whats achivable, being able to look at wiki and play at the same time, being polite and friendly to people, knowing howto build a balanced group, backing out of a group which lacks a monk or something key, so they can succeed hopefully. having max armour, reasonable equipment aswell, most importantly, enjoy what you play .

The single most important thing you need to know in PvE is to watch your aggro circle. If you're coming from PvP, that's also known as the "dead monk circle of death". Seriously, though. There's no real secret to PvE. A few tenets of PvE:

Resurrection spells are a must. Even on a monk. Rebirth has saved me countless plat in FOW.

For some reason, enemy monks will chase you and wand at you for-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing-ever. Use this to your advantage. Kill them, and then kill the lollygagging mob that follows when you attack them.

Get used to seeing a party window like this:

W/Mo Omg Leet Worriar
W/Mo Keelz Yuo Ded
W/Mo Darknight Mcdeath
W/Mo Worroir Of Blod
W/Mo Supahfast Droksrunner
W/Mo Frenzy Wammo Ftw
W/Mo Yuo Equals Ded

accompanied by chat screens looking like this:

Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!
Omg Leet Worriar: GLF MONKS THEN AND WE GO!!!!!!

Mesmers will have a hard time finding a group.

All those girls are really guys. I'm sure that's a rule in PvP, too.

And now for some real advice. My rules for picking out 55 monks trying to screw your party:

1. Multicolored dragon tattoo armor.
2. Guildless
3. Name contains the words "Happy", "Love", "Work", or "Life".
4. Doesn't speak.
5. If it does speak, it's along the lines of "gogogogogogogogogogogo" much like a wammo, but far more harmful.


If a player matches any 2 of these features, they are guaranteed to be a 55 farmer. You don't even need to have them ping their health or skill bar.