I think moderators should refrain from giving their opinion, pro or con on a thread topic while in the process of closing that topic thread.
Commenting on the topic, in agreement or disagreement, is clearly at odds with the idea that they are acting in a professional or unbiased manner.
No one is denying that forum moderators don't have opinions, and the right to opinions; but don't wrap those opinions up in a forum post on a given topic thread as it is being closed. There should be a separation between closing threads and closing threads that are in disagreement with a mod's opinions.
There needs to be some daylight between the two areas.
Suggestions:
-don't take a side in the argument, just stating the reason for the thread closure will suffice
-editorializing in commentary and then silencing the conversation is not a proper way to moderate. Moderators are not editors.
-moderators should not be proponents within discussion threads, their advocacy should be solely based on forum rules and policies while wearing their mod hats.
So, my polite suggestion is for moderators to be sensitive to the propriety of their actions.
Suggestion: Moderator opinions
Kuldebar Valiturus
Inde
I completely agree, Kuldebar Valiturus. And thank you for the eloquently worded reminder. I'll make sure all of the moderators see this.
EDIT: I have to modify this slightly in case someone reads this and completely takes it literal. There are indeed certain situations where there could be misinformation, or a more detailed explanation needs to be written out that could be taken as the moderators "opinion". As an overall rule, this applies most of the time. In certain situations though, it is necessary for a moderator to give links, more details, clarification, or an explanation of forum rules.
EDIT: I have to modify this slightly in case someone reads this and completely takes it literal. There are indeed certain situations where there could be misinformation, or a more detailed explanation needs to be written out that could be taken as the moderators "opinion". As an overall rule, this applies most of the time. In certain situations though, it is necessary for a moderator to give links, more details, clarification, or an explanation of forum rules.
Lasareth
Opinion as I see it though isn't "this thread is in bad taste" (because that's part of the moderating job, deleting those types of threads). Most of the culprits in these situations are on threads that have valid points in one form or another in which a mod might take a side.
Mods should facilitate discussion in a constructive manner. Sometimes that may include offering an opinion, however they are aware (we tell them this) that they are not to offer only one opinion then stifle any further discussion, because that's detrimental to the nature of discussion.
Though, like I said, some threads are just garbage and need to be closed (I'm sorry! It's true.). In that situation it's inconsequential whether or not a mod leaves a comment, in my opinion. People really shouldn't take these comments personally, unless they're a flame. And if there's a mod run amok flaming people then we need to know
Mods should facilitate discussion in a constructive manner. Sometimes that may include offering an opinion, however they are aware (we tell them this) that they are not to offer only one opinion then stifle any further discussion, because that's detrimental to the nature of discussion.
Though, like I said, some threads are just garbage and need to be closed (I'm sorry! It's true.). In that situation it's inconsequential whether or not a mod leaves a comment, in my opinion. People really shouldn't take these comments personally, unless they're a flame. And if there's a mod run amok flaming people then we need to know
Kuldebar Valiturus
Thanks for the comments.
Everyone's passions get flamed occasionally, so to speak...including my own, so when Moderators act like wet blankets, that's usually a good thing.
Everyone's passions get flamed occasionally, so to speak...including my own, so when Moderators act like wet blankets, that's usually a good thing.
Tarun
Agreed. A moderator is to remain neutral in the on-goings of threads when moderation is involved. Discussion while the topic is active and not requiring moderation is fine; but I frequently see moderators leaving rude comments when they close threads.
lacasner
And moderators I think should check in with someone before just closing or deleting stuff, because I have seen a few mods do that already just because of :there have been enough of these topics before!, or "its like beating a dead horse". This is really discouraging to new forum members, and also to me it is just unnecessary flexing of authority.
Kuldebar Valiturus
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacasner
Of course, I just feel that the judgments need made in as impartial and professional manner as possible, or you can end up with the equivalent of policeman walking around town breaking knee caps and demanding protection money.
For instance, the treatment of Suggestion Threads is somewhat perverse when compared to the rest of the forum.
Anywhere else on the forum if you post a comment to a 6 month old thread there are cries of "thread necromancy". In the Suggestion Thread that seems to be what the rules want you to do and it all hinges on this rule:
Quote:
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If your idea is a slight change of another suggestion that's already been suggested, don't post a new thread on it, post it in the existing thread and continue the discussion over the general idea.
It's obviously a judgment call and there can be a wide area open to interpretation. For me, one distinct difference between ideas is enough to ensure that it is more than a "slight change" but it all comes down to what latitude is allowed by a given moderator. Such decisions can result in cases where one ill-composed, six month old post eternally buries a new suggestion on the same game related subject simply because people tend to read the originating post in a thread topic and not the one 40 posts down. Moderator decisions naturally impact the discussion of ideas. The result of those decisions determine whether they are simply pulling up weeds or paving over a forest.
lacasner
That's true, but I also think mods should not be goaded into closing threads as well;
I have seen situations where players will make comments forcing mods into closing threads, such as Thread necromancy at its finest, plz close this kthx. Wow another one of these topics, beating a dead horse eh? Simply, I know moderators jobs are not easy, but they should try to have better judgment at times. I would not be so critical either if it wasn't for the countless times I have seen things like this happen and certain moderators which I won't mention not respond in any way. Malice Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacasner
That's true, but I also think mods should not be goaded into closing threads as well;
I have seen situations where players will make comments forcing mods into closing threads, such as Thread necromancy at its finest, plz close this kthx. Wow another one of these topics, beating a dead horse eh? Simply, I know moderators jobs are not easy, but they should try to have better judgment at times. I would not be so critical either if it wasn't for the countless times I have seen things like this happen and certain moderators which I won't mention not respond in any way. 9 out of 10 times these thread do need closing.
Kuldebar Valiturus
Perhaps merging thread related topics would be a better method than closing topics. But, maybe the thread merger process is too clunky or complicated.
Finding a topic on the forums has its own challenges and there are search engine issues as well as subject indexing issues: what someone calls "auction house" another person calls "advanced trade features"...etc. My guess is that the administrative functions like thread merger may be much more labor intensive than a simple topic closure. Malice Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus
Perhaps merging thread related topics would be a better method than closing topics. But, maybe the thread merger process is too clunky or complicated.
Finding a topic on the forums has its own challenges and there are search engine issues as well as subject indexing issues: what someone calls "auction house" another person calls "advanced trade features"...etc. My guess is that the administrative functions like thread merger may be much more labor intensive than a simple topic closure. Thread merging causes Guru to crash more often then not. Closing and deleting is less time consuming and easier.
Kuldebar Valiturus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Thread merging causes Guru to crash more often then not. Closing and deleting is less time consuming and easier.
That's a shame, I think Moderators would get less grief if they merged more and closed less. But, I understand now why mergers don't happen very often.
Malice Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus
That's a shame, I think Moderators would get less grief if they merged more and closed less. But, I understand now why mergers don't happen very often.
Shouldn't have to. People should look beyond the first page before posting new threads.
Sections such as mine need "harsh" moderating. Ventari was "let go" for a while and it was a right state when I was made a mod of that area, it still has it's problems but there has been a marked improvment IMO.
Snype
In addition to this idea (I don't know what the current mod rules are now) I think that mods shouldn't be allowed to directly insult another member, unless they have done something to someone else.
For example, I posted a perfectly viable monk build in a certain forum. The mod quoted the build, said that I was "too horrible a monk to ever care about weapon switches and other things" and that my build was perfect for "idiots that don't really know how to monk". After posting back asking why a mod would be so insulting to a member who was only trying to post their own build, my original build post was deleted, the mods post was deleted, and my following post was deleted. Personally I think certain mods can be a little more professional when making decisions on their posts. FoxBat
You could be less circumspect and just address the PvP moderators directly. I tend to see actual explanations for thread closings from most PvE mods.
I might accept that weak builds might need to be closed because they invite too much flaming from the rude community. Of course the irony is the mods are often a part of that. Inde
If it's in the PvP section? Well I don't make excuses for the mods there (shock, close the jaw). PvP is a beast of it's own. Those that do serious PvP know which builds are playable, valid and which ones will encourage discussion or die out in flames. A lot of trust is placed there as few can control PvP players. Smack talk is as much a part of PvP as it is on these boards.
This is a completely different attitude then the rest of our boards. Some don't like it, most appreciate it in our Gladiator's Arena. And of course, please if you see instances of mods flaming a member report them. Do not post general accusations on the board that hold no weight and are mere opinion. Chief or myself are happy to address and respond to any of your concerns or questions. |
